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Judge Grants Special Master To Review Seized Mar-A-Lago Documents; Police Searching For 2 Men Accused Of Killing 10 In Stabbing Spree; Biden Repeats Warning On "MAGA Republicans" On Labor Day In WI. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 05, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:54]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: It's the top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

The Justice Department says it's considering its next steps after a federal judge today granted former President Trump's request for that independent special master. Judge Aileen Cannon, who Trump nominated to the bench, said a third party is needed to review the thousands of documents and items that the FBI seized from Mar-A-Lago.

The DOJ is looking into whether the former president improperly kept classified and top secret documents at his Florida estate. Joining me now is CNN's Sara Murray and Kara Scannell.

Okay. So Sara, just walk us through this Judge Cannon's ruling.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, she cited a number of reasons for why she feels like this special master is necessary safeguard to put in place. She says there are swirling allegations of bias and media leaks in this ruling. She was appointed to Trump's individual interest and need for this seized property. And she pointed to these two instances where the investigative team was exposed to material that was later deemed potentially privileged.

So essentially saying, we need more than just the filter team that is in place to ensure that the former president's rights are being protected. And she leans into the fact that this is an extraordinary situation, we're not dealing with your average citizen here. We are dealing with a former president.

She wrote: "As a function of Plaintiff's former position as President of the United States, the stigma associated with the subject seizure is in a league of its own, a future indictment based to any degree on property that ought to be returned, would result in reputational harm of a decidedly different order of magnitude."

The judge also gave us a little bit more information about the kinds of items that were seized from Mar-A-Lago. Of course, we know there were thousands of documents, many of them government documents, without classified markings, others documents with classified markings. But she also said that according to the privilege review team's report, the seized materials included medical documents, correspondence related to taxes and accounting information.

So now there will be a special master appointed who's going to go through all of this material and root out anything that could be personal to Donald Trump, that could be potentially covered under attorney-client privilege or executive privilege.

CAMEROTA: Okay. So Kara, tell us what exactly the special master will do, how long it will take and what happens to all of these documents while we wait.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN REPORTER: Yes. So the judge is giving everyone - the Justice Department and Trump's lawyers - until Friday to make a joint submission with a bunch of nominees, potential candidates who could serve as a special master. And this would require someone who has some type of security clearance given the nature of the documents. The judge is also asking them to come up with the list of duties and limitations for the special master, set up a schedule for how this will work and who's going to pay for it.

Now, the judge says she will decide that expeditiously once she gets this joint submission. When you look at special masters in the past, like for instance with Michael Cohen there was a special master, that person took four months to review three and a half million documents. Here we're looking at little more than 11,000 documents, but the issues might be thornier, because in Cohen with the attorney-client privilege, I mean, this was something that the person appointed was a retired judge, she received the documents, so did Trump and Cohen and she would make these privileged designations, they could object to it and then she filed public reports on a rolling basis, updating it and handing over documents to the government.

With executive privilege, there is no roadmap because they haven't used a special master to do this before and the judge has reserved her ruling on whether to give any of these records, these seized documents back to Trump's team. So it's not really clear how that's going to work out, but she is going to continue to let the intelligence agencies continue their review of these documents to see if any steps need to be taken on that front.

CAMEROTA: Yes. That part is also really interesting. It's sort of this mixed decision that the investigation can go on, but it will also be slowed down. So Kara, thank you very much for all of that. Sara, thanks to you too.

Here with us now, we have former U.S. Attorney Harry Litman. He's also a four her Deputy Assistant Attorney General and a Legal Affairs Columnist for the L.A. Times.

[15:05:03]

Okay. So Harry, do you see this as a big win for Donald Trump and what's the impact of this?

HARRY LITMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes and huge. I think it's basically a disaster of an opinion for the Department of Justice. To say the least, it's not very clear what the special master should do. Every single case involving a special master in the past has been a seizure of attorney-client privilege in a lawyer's office.

The judge said, well, I found one that - where it wasn't and so therefore this sliver of materials, the documents about medical records or tax correspondence, he could have an interest in that. Indeed, he might. But we're talking about a sliver and this is the ultimate tail wagging of the dog opinion.

Because she then says the special master must come in and consider not just this sliver, but the entire building of over 10,000 documents, and for what? The - it's completely unclear what a special master does, because all levels of the courts, including the Supreme Court, in a case she cites have said he's got no interest here in these other documents. So both to find he has a legal interest that's deeply muddled, but practically to enable review of executive privilege, she basically lumps this teeny part in with everything else.

And a special master could find there's executive privilege, but there's no law about then what happens and it'll take development of that law, probably Supreme Court development of that law. Potentially, it could be months and months and more work. I think the Department of Justice basically has to appeal.

CAMEROTA: That's interesting that you say that, Harry, because earlier in the program, we talked about that, and they said that that can also slow down the entire process. An appeal slows it down and so if the special master were only to, say, take 60 days or 80 days, it's not worth an appeal.

LITMAN: To do what though, Alisyn? Besides the bad legal precedent, the special master will look at these 10,000 documents that swamp the - and by the way, the ones they did take the sliver, no suggestion. It was perfectly proper to take it under the search warrant. But what does the special master do? We have no standards on when and whether Trump could have any kind of interest in these things, so it's this huge, unanswered question that has to be answered by the courts. I mean, the Supreme Court itself has said, this are really tricky question.

So I don't see the prospect for a special master making quick work of this because the master, by definition, won't know what to do with it.

CAMEROTA: Quickly, who does the DOJ appeal to?

LITMAN: The 11th Circuit, which is a rough circuit, it's true, but they've - on top of everything else, their criminal investigation has been frozen, has been enjoined. They can't do anything with any of these documents in the meantime. So I think they need to go to the 11th Circuit, potentially, the Supreme Court. I think the risks of just letting it play out under such uncertain circumstances are too great for the investigation.

CAMEROTA: Except the DNI, Director of National Intelligence can continue the investigation into whether these - just what kind of danger these top secret and classified documents posed to national security. So it does put the DOJ at a standstill, but in terms of the national security issue, that can continue a pace.

LITMAN: You're completely right. So the assessment and that's, of course, hard in and of itself, will continue. But the criminal investigation has been shut down completely. And imagine this in any other kind of context where a criminal defendant says, don't bring - before you bring charges, I just want to challenge everything, you don't have a right to any of my materials. It would basically freeze DOJ in its tracks.

I understand the argument, maybe they'll get lucky if they just let it follow through. That would be - we're talking about how the - what's worse of very bad alternatives. But having the criminal investigation frozen now is no small thing.

CAMEROTA: And Harry, I don't know if you know the answer to this, but if the DNI determines that the country's national security has been put at risk by these top secret documents floating around, do we know what they do? Do they have a duty to report that to Congress?

LITMAN: Well, probably. I mean, there is no legal protocol. They do the best they can. They get people out of harm's way. They change the sources and methods. I mean, this is the whole part of the reason why it is such a serious crime, so they might have to do very expensive, consequential, dangerous moves to just shore up the national interest. They could never completely repair all the damage that's been done if they - indeed they can find out what that damage even is.

CAMEROTA: Okay. A lot still to happen. Harry Litman, thanks for explaining all of that.

LITMAN: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Okay, so right now in Canada, a massive manhunt continues for two men accused of stabbing 10 people to death.

[15:10:03]

Police in three Canadian provinces are still searching for these suspects. Authorities say the man also injured at least 18 people Sunday at multiple crime scenes in Saskatchewan.

Most of the attacks centered around an indigenous community at a nearby village in Saskatchewan. Police identified the suspects as 31- year-old Damien Sanderson and 30-year-old Myles Sanderson, both have now been charged with murder and are described as armed and dangerous. CNN's Paula Newton is live for us in Ottawa, so what's the latest at this hour Paula?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We had another police statement, Alisyn, in the last couple of hours and certainly why they did charge the suspects at this point in time and said that they continue to work hard. The headline is that unfortunately a day and a half later the suspects are still at large and they confirm still dangerous at this point in time. I want you to - show you a statement from the RCMP commander there,

Rhonda Blackmore, who says to the people of Saskatchewan and beyond: "Please be assured that we are using every human, investigational and technological resource we have available to locate and arrest the persons responsible for this tragedy and to ensure your safety."

Now, Alisyn, I spoke to a couple of people in the community who do not want to go on the record, but they're still terrified and they're terrified because of what happened obviously traumatized but also they are still worried that they are at large. They are not convinced that the cordon that police have around those communities right now will suffice in order to keep these suspects out.

It is a huge issue at this hour and the trail went cold a little bit more than 24 hours ago. Now, about a three and a half hour drive from where these crimes were originally committed, the police chief says that they had a credible witness say that they saw an SUV. It's a black Nissan Rogue that they believe they saw the suspects driving that vehicle in the capital of Saskatchewan which is Regina. I want you to hear now from the police chief. Listen.

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CHIEF EVAN BRAY, REGINA POLICE SERVICE: We know, we are confident that someone out there knows the whereabouts of these two and has information that will be valuable to the police. And I urge you to get in touch with your local police service to let us know.

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NEWTON: Now, what's unsettling about that, Alisyn, is the fact that they clearly do not have any good leads at this moment. They are continually appealing to the public, to friends of the suspects, to people who knew the suspects to come forward with any shred of information they may have. And as I said, the trail seems to have been cold for about 24 hours.

Also alarming here is how police have been characterizing these crimes. Obviously very vicious, obviously traumatic, but also some targeted and some random. And from some eyewitnesses that we have heard, I mean, these were horrific injuries, savage attacks with a knife or more than one knife and really some people were left to try and go to medical services on their own. They weren't taken there by ambulance. Police still trying to collect all this information, that's why they upped the injury list of those injured from 15 to 18. But still trying to piece together what happened in the hopes that that may lead to more information about where the suspects may be. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. If anybody knows anything about the Sanderson suspects, call 911. They can transfer you to the right authorities. Paula Newton, thank you very much.

So President Biden is on the campaign trail doubling down on his warning about MAGA Republicans and their threat to democracy.

Plus, a new unconventional treatment for one of the lasting symptoms of long COVID.

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CAMEROTA: Despite complaints from some Republicans, President Biden is doubling down on his warning against election denying members of the GOP who support Donald Trump. Biden again called out so called MAGA Republicans in a stump speech from Wisconsin today. And now the President heads to Pennsylvania. Both states are, of course, pivotal in the fight for the Senate in November.

CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny is in West Mifflin, Pennsylvania where President Biden will speak this evening. So what do we expect to hear from the President there?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORREPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, President Biden making his way to another key battleground state. Of course, it's become a familiar pattern traveling to Pennsylvania for the third time in the last week, but he will be making his argument drawing a sharp contrast with Republicans in the midterm election, but also talking about his economic record, also talking about what he's accomplished in office. Of course trying to rally Democrats for the governor's seat here, the Senate seat, assorted House races as well, but also drawing a distinction between Republicans and as he calls them, MAGA Republicans. Let's listen.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Extreme MAGA Republicans don't just threaten our personal rights and our economic security, they embrace political violence. I'm not talking all Republican. I'm talking about these extreme MAGA Republicans. Think about it. Think about it. The definition of democracy is you accept the will of the people when the votes are honestly counted. These guys don't do it.

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ZELENY: So the President clearly there are trying to draw a distinction to the message that he's been intensifying over the last several weeks drawing a distinction with the former president and his loyal supporters, saying Republicans and MAGA Republicans but clearly trying to energize Democrats.

And one of the reasons he is here, of course, to celebrate the organized labor union support, which is very essential to him. In fact, he said earlier today in Milwaukee that he would not be in the White House. He would not be in public life without organized labor and labor unions and there is a lot of truth to that, Alisyn, no doubt about it.

[15:19:57]

So, a bit of a soggy day here outside Pittsburgh, but clearly trying to make the case that Democrats should now be tuning in to the midterm election campaign which is to two months from tomorrow, clearly so much on the line for his agenda and the future of his administration. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Okay. Jeff Zeleny, thank you for the preview.

Joining me now is CNN Political Analyst Margaret Talev, who is the managing editor of Axios. So, Margaret, a lot of Democrats think that President Biden should have been talking about this - the threat to democracy since January 6. I mean, they think that this is the most important thing and his poll numbers have ticked up in the past couple of weeks. The latest from Quinnipiac shows in August, he's at 41 percent versus the, I think, all time low in July of 33 percent. So do you think it's the rhetoric? Is it the legislation? What do you think is going on with his poll numbers there?

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, hi, Alisyn. Happy Labor Day. Like, look, also over the same period of time gas prices went down and the inflationary trends began to appear to stabilize. And these have had a huge impact on making Biden a little bit more popular with people, a little bit less unpopular and then some trends working in the opposite direction.

Again, democracy aside, these are not trends to do with democracy, but these are the backlash against the Supreme Court decision overturning Roe v. Wade. So this plus legislation has all been helping Biden's numbers. I would say the democracy concerns are real to the extent that they are making Donald Trump more unpopular even than before with kind of centrist voters. Slightly center-right Republicans, the base, still a fan of Donald Trump.

So the question for Biden is: Do you want to drive into democracy as the leading issue when most people are concerned about pocketbook issues? It's certainly an important issue. It's an issue that voters say they care about. But voters care deeply about issues like gun control, also, and when it's time to go to the ballot for general election, that is not the issue they vote on.

I think for Democrats, that concern is similar. Voters say they care a lot about democracy, but when it comes time to vote, they tend to care more about pocketbook issues. A couple things really stood out to me though in his remarks. He did - obviously, he spend quite a bit of time trying to kind of nuanced this message to say, I'm not talking about all Republicans, MAGA Republicans are different. I think you're going to hear him tinkering with that.

But then after that, he really moved on to focus specifically on that Wisconsin race, Republican incumbent Ron Johnson locked in a very, very close race with the Lieutenant Governor Mandela Barnes. Like Barnes is leading but not really, it's all within the margin of error within a handful of polls.

And Biden making a different distinction, which is the idea that while Republicans are really courting union members, especially white male union members, that a lot of the policy differences are issues that union members would not agree on, when it comes to benefits: Social Security, Medicare, insurance coverage. So that's not as provocative a message as the democracy message, but for the people in that crowd who hung around long enough to listen to the rest of Biden's remarks, that's kind of the parallel set of messaging that he was going after there.

CAMEROTA: And then contrast that with former President Trump, who was also in Pennsylvania. He had a grievance filled rally this weekend. And he called law enforcement. He called out law enforcement. He's obviously angry since the FBI had to go take the classified documents back from his home. He called them 'vicious monsters'. We know that threats against the FBI are at unprecedented levels. Why aren't more Republicans speaking out about against that kind of violent rhetoric?

TALEV: Yes, it's just - it's such a massive turnaround in messaging and platform of the Republican Party. For the last several decades, Republicans have positioned themselves as the party of law and order and sought to say the Democrats are weak on law enforcement and that Republicans back law enforcement. But this is a real and lasting pivot in the Republican message, not just from Donald Trump, but from a lot of candidates at the national and state and local levels.

And it's something that I think Democrats both see as a political opportunity, but also people in leadership from both parties, including Biden see as a real concern, like a real problem for governance and stability.

I also want to ask you about this interesting thing that's happening in Washington state where the Republican U.S. Senate candidate is talking about abortion and she identifies herself as pro-life but she says that she basically backs the current abortion rights there up until fetal viability. That's interesting. I mean, we haven't heard a Republican talk about that and try to straddle that - both of those sides.

[15:25:02]

Are more Republicans having to, as you say, tinker with their message now that the overturning of Roe versus Wade was so unpopular?

TALEV: Yes. There's probably on the spectrum of Washington State to like Ohio, let's say a big difference. But I think that you're going to see some gradation in message. I don't think you're going to see Republicans who are on the record as opposing abortion rights suddenly pivot in a general election say never mind, I'm for it.

But I think at least in terms of the public messaging, what's on your website, what are you talking about on the stump just to move away from that and attempting to pivot to other issues because so much data and evidence and polling and voter registrations in the idea of increased democratic enthusiasm and even the ability to pull suburban independent and Republican women voters to the polls on behalf of Democrats is really concerning for Republicans, and they understand that there could be a backlash at the polls from that Supreme Court ruling.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Margaret Talev, thank you very much for all the perspective.

All right. Another day, another weekend plagued with gun violence to report on. We have all the details next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)