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Washington Post Reports, FBI Found File on Foreign Nation's Nuke Defenses at Mar-a-Lago; Soon, Suspect Charged With Murdering Memphis Teacher Back in Court; Trump-Backed Candidate Wins GOP Primary for Massachusetts Governor. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired September 07, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: It is the top of the hour. Good morning. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Jim Sciutto.

We are watching as at any moment, the man accused of kidnapping and killing 34-year-old mother and teacher Eliza Fletcher will be arraigned in a Memphis courtroom. Cleotha Abston is now charged with first-degree murder, premeditated murder and murder in the -- perpetration, rather, of a kidnapping. Fletcher was abducted during her early morning jog last Friday. Her body was found Monday behind a vacant property.

HARLOW: Plus, secret material on nuclear capabilities seized at Mar- a-Lago. The Washington Post reports that one of the highly classified documents found in the FBI search last month described a foreign government's nuclear defenses, writing, quote, some of the seized documents detailed top secret U.S. operations so closely guarded that many senior national security officials are kept in the dark about them. Only the president, some members of his cabinet or a near cabinet level official could authorize other government officials to no details of these special access programs.

SCIUTTO: All right. What does all these latest news mean? Joining us now to discuss, David Priess, he's a former CIA intelligence officer, and Michael Moore, former U.S. Attorney.

First, Michael, on the legal question here, we already knew that the president was holding many dozens of classified documents in an unsecured location months in many cases after he was asked to return them. Now, we know it's an even higher level of sensitivity, higher level of classification than we knew among those documents. Does that level of sensitivity increase the likelihood that the DOJ charges? Is there a legal standard here, right, in other words, more charges, higher charges, more likely to charge given sensitivity?

MICHAEL MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Well, Good morning. I'm glad to be with all of you. I really think that is probably the case. You know, the documents that they had dealing with the national defense may have been enough as it was under the Espionage Act because it doesn't really require classified materials to be held and stored there, out of the norm, that it required defense information.

And so this information about nuclear capabilities and defense information is particularly troubling to me and there is no good way to spin it for the president. I mean, I think that the three blind mice could see he is in trouble with this at this point.

What it does do, though, and what I'm also worried about, is how the news is getting the information about what the documents are. And it seems to me that with sort of one story now Trump's request for a special master is justified because somebody, somewhere is leaking information about the specifics of these highly classified, highly sensitive documents. And so that may change the dynamics, not just on the criminal side, but also as we are talking about moving forward on the legal side with the special master's job.

HARLOW: David, to Michael's point about the special master but a little bit of a different angle on it is the fact in Judge Cannon's ruling, she said the special master ostensibly stops DOJ's use of these documents for the investigation. They can still continue with interviews, et cetera, but it allows ODNI to continue the intelligence community to continue with their review of what was found. How does knowing how high this classification was, at least for some of these documents now given this Washington Post reporting impact that?

DAVID PRIESS, FORMER CIA INTELLIGENCE OFFICER: Well, the whole point of a potential risk assessment of what damage there is potentially to intelligence sources and methods from these documents being at a country club unsecured for 18 months, it depends on the investigation that the Department of Justice is doing. These two aren't completely independent.

You can look at the documents and see what was in them but you can't really tell who had access to them unless you're talking to the Department of Justice about their investigation. The stalling of the latter does affect the former. The ODNI will not be able to do a completely robust investigation of the risk of these documents being out there without having investigatory information about who had access to them and when. That investigation is stalled so we're not going to be getting answers on that for quite some time.

SCIUTTO: David, I want to draw on your intelligence experience because you let us know that you briefed similar sensitive materials as a CIA intelligence officer. Tell us about the hoops one must jump through when handling documents classified to this level, where it's a very limited number of eyes that are permitted to see that information and how those standards were, of course, clearly violated here?

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PRIESS: Yes. The reporting last night from The Washington Post talks about two different things which may or may not be coterminous. So, first, you've got the report first on a foreign country's defense systems, including nuclear capabilities. Presumably, that means active capabilities, but it could nascent capabilities or a developing nuclear program. We don't know.

Then they talk about there are also documents that are special access programs, highly compartmented programs that only a few people at the most senior levels of the U.S. government can see. It's possible that the nuclear document is in one of those but it's not necessary based on the way the story is written.

When I would go in brief, including briefing the president's daily brief to the national security adviser and her deputy in the White House, that information would be under lock and key. Usually, it was in the president's daily brief but some of the supplementary intelligence that we would bring in, that is something even in the White House compound we would keep under wraps until we were talking to that specific customer about it.

If it's in one of those special access programs, one of those SAPs, that is not information that you talk to the staff on the National Security Council about or others in the hallway. That's information that sometimes would be literally limited to talking to the president, the national security adviser and a handful of others. It might not even be included in documents going to other senior officials that day. It is that serious when something is highly compartmented.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HARLOW: Michael, the fact that this reporting shows that those most highly classified documents, including the one about a foreign government's nuclear defense readiness was found because of the search. It was not in the previous boxes handed over finally to the National Archives or in response to the subpoena. It was found only because of the search. How significant to you is that as it ties to the broader DOJ investigation?

MOORE: Yes. I think it lends credibility to the justification for the search and maybe to the information that was provided in the affidavit that we haven't seen to get the issuance of the search warrant. So, it seems clear to me that there will be a case that could be made, if the department uses to do that on obstruction, there may be a case it could be made against people who make certifications or representations to government agents that, in fact, that they had searched the property and that there were no classified materials were there.

Again, you'll always notice that Trump was a buffer between him and a criminal indictment, and that is usually a lawyer or somebody else or a member of his staff who makes those representations that it is not him. So, I think those around him who have made these representations that there are no classified materials there at Mar-a-Lago, they need to lawyer up because I expect that they will find themselves on the wrong side of the law and certainly on the wrong side of an investigation as they move forward. So, it's significant.

And, again, there's no way to spin this from the Trump camp as positive when you have this kind of information. We are not talking about, you know, a secret letter written by Kim Jong-un that says happy birthday or something. I mean, we are now defining specific defense materials and especially when we start talking about nuclear information. HARLOW: Michael Moore, David Priess, thank you both very much.

PRIESS: You're welcome.

SCIUTTO: Other news this morning, long time Trump adviser, chief strategist, he was called, Steve Bannon, is expected to surrender to prosecutors in New York tomorrow, this to face state charges there related to his fundraising efforts to build a wall along the southern border. The new charges come after Bannon allegedly defrauded donors who contributed to that We Build the Wall campaign.

HARLOW: Let's bring in our colleague, Kara Scannell, who is following of this all.

As he was leaving office, then-President Trump pardoned Bannon on federal fraud charges related to the scheme, but these are state and you can't -- president's pardon wouldn't extend to that, right?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, right. I mean, if you'll remember, Bannon was initially charged by federal prosecutors in August of 2020, so two years ago, as part (INAUDIBLE) with some others as part of conducting the scheme where they would raise more than $25 million from people who were in favor of building a wall along the southern border, I mean, people who are generally Trump supporters. And prosecutors say that they then siphoned off using Shell companies and other layers to try to conceal this more than a million dollars that they used to pay for some of their personal expenses.

Well, then Trump pardoned Bannon just as he was leaving office, that's when the Manhattan District Attorney's Office opened their state investigation looking at the same conduct and whether it violated state law. So, now, we have learned that they have obtained an indictment from the grand jury that will be unsealed tomorrow and then it will -- he is expected to appear in court in New York to face these new charges.

Bannon has called these charges phony and says that they are just a partisan political weaponization of the criminal justice system, but, certainly, he has had a lot of mounting legal problems.

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He was indicted last November and then convicted in July of contempt of Congress for not complying with a subpoena for the House select committee investigating January 6th. Now, certainly, he is facing more serious state charges that are related to this fundraising scheme.

HARLOW: We will see where this goes, Kara. Thank you for explaining it all to us. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Moments from now, the man accused of kidnapping and killing 34-year-old mother and teacher Eliza Fletcher will appear in a Memphis courtroom. Cleotha Abston will be arraigned on charges of first-degree murder, premeditated murder and murder in the perpetration of a kidnapping. Officials found Fletcher's body on Monday behind a vacant property in Memphis.

HARLOW: Well, her family released a statement that reads, in part, quote, we're heartbroken and devastated by this senseless loss. Eliza was such a joy to so many. We are grateful beyond measure to local, state and federal law enforcement for their tireless efforts.

Joining us now is Criminal Defense Attorney Bob Bianchi, host of the Law and Crime Network, also former head prosecutor for Morris County, New Jersey. Good morning to you.

This is moving quickly. This is the second arraignment in two days. As soon as they found her body, Bob, they upped the charges yesterday. Where does this go from here, given all of the details also that Gary Tuchman reported on last hour we do have now from this affidavit?

BOB BIANCHI, HOST, THE LAW AND CRIME NETWORK: Well, Poppy, you can be assured that as a former homicide prosecutor myself, I mean, this is a textbook investigation. They did a great job. But this is exactly the kind of person that you want to put away for as long as possible.

This seems to be a random victim. There may be a motive for money. This guy, he's got an extensive juvenile record. He had a previous kidnapping charge, which he served 20 years. He was there about 24 minutes prior to the abduction itself, which to me sounds like there was some level of planning and plotting that went on here, a completely innocent victim. So, from a prosecutorial standpoint, this is what prosecutors live to prosecute for.

So, obviously, they are going full tilt. They've got great evidence from what we understand right now. Even though he may not be speaking, at least that is what we are told as of this point in time, they have got DNA evidence, they have got the vehicle and, most importantly and sadly, they have the body. And with the body, you can be pretty much assured there is going to be a lot of trace evidence and a lot of information they are going to get from that, which is going to pretty much lock the conviction in.

But, again, as a former prosecutor, I can tell you that while it's great for the family that there is justice that is going to be brought to this particular individual, it's never going to be enough when the judicial system ends. And, hopefully, if this is the right person and he is convicted, he goes to jail for a long time. Nevertheless, the family is going to suffer a tragic loss.

And I'll just add one last thing. One thing that gets me uncomfortable when you see a case like this is the randomness of it. And this is why guys like me that do this kind of work, say, all the time to our wives, our sisters, and anybody who goes out there. You've got to be -- it's sad to say that there are people out there that will prey upon innocent people like this. And that's why I think it makes it chilling to many people.

SCIUTTO: Chilling and heartbreaking for the family, no question, as you say, Bob. You mentioned the evidence. Some of that evidence is video evidence, the security cameras that captured, both video and still images of the car across the city kind of establishing a map of where he went and when. Tell us how -- and, of course, her there before she was abducted. How does that factor into the case going forward?

BIANCHI: Huge, Jim. I mean, they're going to be following all the electronic data, the phone data, which they've already done, as you can see in the affidavit. They're going to do a deep dive through all the social media history, all the electronics, everything, internet searches of both the defendant and the victim, to see if there is a connection, to see if they can tie that in, but, moreover, to see what level of planning went into this, if any. But I suspect that there was, with regard to this defendant, of course, as prosecutors, we want to make sure there was nobody else that was involved in this as well.

So, that electronic evidence is going to be the electronic footprint that is just going to add more damage to his case.

HARLOW: Bob Bianchi, thank you very much for your insight in all of this.

BIANCHI: My pleasure.

HARLOW: Well, this morning, police are searching for a 33-year-old woman who vanished after moving from Kenya to the United States. Irene Gakwa was living in Wyoming. Her family reported her missing in March of this year. Police say her boyfriend, who she met on Craigslist, is a person of interest in the case.

SCIUTTO: CNN Correspondent Adrienne Broaddus, she's in Chicago, she's been following this.

Adrienne, authorities say that her boyfriend, Irene's boyfriend, is not a suspect in her disappearance.

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They have charged him for financial crimes against her. Can you explain what we know at this point?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, let's sort it all out here for you, Jim. He is a person of interest and investigators believe that person who she was in a long-term relationship with has information regarding her disappearance.

And we are talking about Irene Gokwa. Her birthday was last month. She turned 33, but her family has not seen her since February 24th and that was on a video call. Her family says they would hear from her every day, if not, every other day, either via video calls or through text messaging.

After the video calls stopped, the communication via text also shifted. She would normally speak in her native language or use Swahili slang. Instead, the messages her family says they received were in English, purely English. Now, let's tell you a little more about that man you referenced, Nathan Hightman. Investigators say they were in a relationship. He is facing five felony charges against Irene, and here is why. There were at least 16 transactions on Irene's Visa card after she was last seen. One of the first transactions on her card, investigators say, was to make a purchase. They claim Hightman purchased a pair of boots, jeans and a shovel using her card.

Hightman also told an officer he removed money from her bank account to force her to contact him. And that is not all. He is also accused of deleting her Gmail account. And that's what led to these five felony charges. Take a look, we are going to put those on the screen for you also, two felony counts of theft, one felony count of unlawful use of a credit card, as well as two felony counts of crimes against intellectual property.

Her family wants to know where she is. Every night they go to bed, they think about her. Every morning they wake up, they also think about her. That community in Wyoming where she lived has rallied around and helped the family. She has two brothers who live in Boise. Jim and Poppy?

SCIUTTO: Adrienne Broaddus, we know you'll stay on top of it. Thank you so much.

Still to come this hour, a look at the key midterm battles still to come, news overnight from the state of Massachusetts, and we are also following Pennsylvania.

HARLOW: First day of school canceled in Seattle this week with thousands of teachers expected to go on strike this hour.

SCIUTTO: And living in the shadow of a nuclear giant in Ukraine, the looming threat of a possible disaster at Europe's largest nuclear plant in the middle of war going on prompting this warning.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nuclear safety is indispensable. Nuclear security is indispensable. We are playing with fire.

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SCIUTTO: The stage is now set for the race to be Massachusetts' next governor. Last night, former state lawmaker and Trump-endorsed Geoff Diehl won the state's Republican primary defeating businessman Chris Doughty.

HARLOW: Now he'll face Democratic State Attorney General Maura Healey in November. They are looking to replace two-term Republican Governor Charlie Baker who decided earlier this year not to seek reelection. If Healey wins, she would be just the second Democrat to serve as governor of Massachusetts in the last 31 years. Let's talk about this and, of course, we've got to talk about Pennsylvania, CNN Political Commentators S.E. Cupp and Charlie Dent with us. Charlie, of course, you also served as a Republican in Congress representing Pennsylvania, so we will get to that in a moment, but let's start in your place of birth.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I grew up there. I grew up in Massachusetts, proud Mass hole.

HARLOW: You said it. Not me.

CUPP: Yes.

HARLOW: Okay. So, Diehl endorsed by Trump but all of the polling through the summer, look, at 538 and now has him as a heavy underdog in a general election.

CUPP: I mean, sometimes by 30 points, Maura Healey is beating him, yes.

HARLOW: So, can he win?

CUPP: Well, this makes no sense. Yet, again, it sort of mirrors the Maryland race. Larry Hogan was a very popular two-term Republican governor in a very Democratic state.

HARLOW: Yes.

CUPP: Republicans chose not to repeat that and attempt to do that again, and they picked the Trumpiest candidate to back. We'll see how that goes. And in Massachusetts too, a state that has elected Republican governors, instead of repeating the Charlie Baker model, the sort of moderate Republican that could win in Democratic Massachusetts again, they picked the Trumpiest candidate 30 points behind the Democratic nominee, probably no chance of winning. I do not get what is this performative politics for? Who is this for if you're not actually trying to get people into the seats?

HARLOW: We will see.

Let's talk about fascinating race in Pennsylvania for the open Senate seat there between Oz and Fetterman. Charlie, Fetterman is refusing to debate Oz. His team has been open about the fact that they say he has not fully recovered from his stroke. Oz's campaign has lobbed some low blows at Fetterman in the wake of that about his health.

But let me read you this from the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, this is their op-ed this week. If Mr. Fetterman is not well enough to debate his opponent, that raises serious concerns about his ability to serve as U.S. senator.

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They go on to write, Mr. Oz is pressing the issue in an adolescent manner, nevertheless, a live debate is the best way to assure voters that Fetterman is up to the job. The Wall Street Journal Editorial Board today writing, if Fetterman can campaign around the state and speak at rallies, he can participate in a debate. Do you agree that a debate is the only way you settle these questions?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I absolutely believe that Fetterman must debate. I believe his campaign has not been very transparent and has understated the severity of his health condition. And I certainly wish him well and it's unfortunate he is in this situation at all, but I think it's incumbent upon him to debate.

He must and there's no way he cannot debate. I think it would be -- let the voters be the judges as to whether or not he is able to serve or he is fit to serve. But this has raised, you know -- their lack of transparency and lack of forthrightness about the whole situation, I think, has really raised questions by a lot of voters. So, I think it's very fair that they do this.

Now, they have to do it in a respectful way, and I think Oz made a mistake, you know, with the vegetable comments that Fetterman wasn't eating enough vegetables. I mean, that was not helpful. But I think they have to take this on in a very serious manner. But I think The Wall Street Journal and the Pittsburgh Post Gazette are right on point here. That's a very fair point.

HARLOW: So, S.E., Fetterman said in June in a statement that he almost died, and his team, Rebecca Katz on his team, told The Washington Post last week, that he has lingering impacts of the auditory processing, saying, we are looking for a fair way to debate given that. I mean, Pat Toomey -- let me just play what Pat Toomey, whose seat this is, what he said and get your thoughts. Here he is.

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SEN. PAT TOOMEY (R-PA): It is clear that he is being dishonest. He's either is not as well as he claims to be or he is afraid to be called out for the radical policies he supports. It's one way or another.

I'm here to issue a warning to Pennsylvania voters. You can't do the job of U.S. senator sitting at home firing off snarky tweets.

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HARLOW: That's interesting, even with saying he won't debate and these health concerns, he is still ahead of Oz by six points in the polls.

CUPP: Yes. Look, Dr. Oz is not a great candidate. I think conservatives and Republicans in Pennsylvania probably deserve a better candidate, but they didn't get one. I will say, I think this speaks to a larger problem for John Fetterman, which is that he and his campaign have at times has been misleading, and Oz is down. I don't think you actually have to go that far. But last week, some audio came out of Dr. Oz talking at a teletown hall. He said he thought abortion was murder. John Fetterman tweeted out, Dr. Oz caught on hot mic he would ban abortions in case of rape and in incest. That's factually not true. That was not in that teletown hall. HARLOW: Bret Baier did press Oz on this and he said he has three exceptions. He is pro-life but the life of the mother, rape and incest.

CUPP: Yes. So -- right. So, in all the ways (ph), that tweet is not true. Dr. Oz has said he supports exceptions in those cases and in the hot mic audio, Dr. Oz didn't say any of that. I just think that is dishonest. It's not -- and it's not the first time.

So, I think the debate problem isn't just is he healthy enough but is he going to be accountable? He is going to stand up and answer tough questions and be pressed on some of this stuff that frankly I feel like the media gives him a pass on because they like him more than Dr. Oz.

HARLOW: Do you agree with that, Charlie? Do you think he is getting a pass?

DENT: Absolutely. I think this Republican candidate who was refusing to debate in an open Senate seat, that would be a human rights violation and the media would be harping on this for weeks.

HARLOW: Well, we did book a whole segment on it and he is welcome on this show. Please join us.

DENT: Like I said, I think S.E. is right. I think, that -- look, I think that Fetterman wants to run this campaign through social media. Well, you can't do the job as a senator from social media and he does have some serious issues and I think he is really got to come clean, you know, just with what is happening here and let the voters make the decision as to whether or not he is fit enough. So, stay tuned because this is going to get real interesting real soon.

HARLOW: That, I think, there is no question about.

CUPP: For sure.

HARLOW: Charlie Dent, S.E. Cupp, great to have you both. Thanks very much.

SCIUTTO: Coming up next, a new report is shedding light on the lasting impact of the pandemic on the mental health of young adults.

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