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Bannon To Surrender On Charges Over Border Wall Fundraising; WAPO: FBI Found File On Foreign Nation's Nuke Capabilities At Mar-A- Lago; Biden: U.S. In New Phase, Moving Towards Annual Shots Against COVID-19. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired September 07, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: It's the top of a brand new hour now on CNN NEWSROOM. Good to be with you. I'm Victor Blackwell.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And I'm Alisyn Camerota.

We're covering several developing stories at this hour. A new report reveals more details about the top secret documents found at Donald Trump's home, including nuclear defense information of another country. We'll discuss the danger that this presents.

BLACKWELL: And the Obamas make their first joint return to the White House today.

We have details of the official portraits and the political messages that were on display today.

Plus, Americans are getting ready to get new booster shots. The White House COVID coordinator will join us to talk about the newest phase in the fight against COVID. But first, former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon is expected to surrender tomorrow on state charges allegedly defrauded donors who wanted to build a border wall. What's accused, New York prosecutors claim, is similar to what led to federal charges against Bannon in 2020.

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump pardoned Bannon as one of his last acts before leaving the White House, but presidential pardons do not apply to state investigations. CNN Correspondent Brynn Gingras joins us now.

So Brynn, tell us about the timing of all this. Did this just kick in after the pardon? Were they running parallel or what?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right. A little bit of a deja vu right now, right? Yes, this all kicked in right after the presidential pardon. As you guys nicely pointed out, federal - presidential pardons don't apply to state investigation. Sources telling my colleague, our colleague Kara Scannell, that people have been going in front of the grand jury here in Manhattan within the last few months and now they have returned an indictment. Now, keep - let me be clear here, we don't know exactly what charges

Bannon faces in this state probe. We will know that when the indictment is unsealed tomorrow. But we have learned that it is to the same conduct is what he was charged by the Justice Department, which is dealing with his fundraising efforts, $25 million he raised with three co-conspirators in those - in that a federal indictment to raise money for the border wall, to construct a border wall. But instead, spending about a million dollars of fundraisers' money, telling them it was going to the construction, but really spending it on that personal - for their own personal expenses.

So what we've learned is that the state was waiting for the three co conspirators to go through the legal process at the federal level that has now really, for the most part, since been done. And now this indictment has been returned by the grand jury and we're expecting Steve Bannon to appear tomorrow.

He did make a statement calling these charges phony and saying this: "Nothing more than a partisan political weaponization of the criminal justice system." Of course, he's won (ph) for word, so I'm sure we'll hear more from him tomorrow when he's expected to come to court.

BLACKWELL: All right. Brynn Gingras, thank you.

CAMEROTA: New today, a federal judge says he will soon decide whether Donald Trump's former White House chief of staff is legally obligated to testify before the House Committee investigating January 6.

BLACKWELL: Mark Meadows is fighting the Committee subpoenas arguing that he is protected by executive privilege. The house general counsel says that he is confident Meadows will comply if the judge lets the subpoena stand. We're also learning more about just how sensitive some of the documents removed from Donald Trump's Florida home are. The Washington Post reports that among the files retrieved from the FBI's search at Mar-A-Lago is a document describing the unique nuclear capabilities of a foreign government's military defense.

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CAMEROTA: The Post reports that these files seized in August included information so restricted that many senior national security officials do not know about them.

Let's bring in Dave Aronberg. He's the State Attorney for Palm Beach County, Florida. And Josh Skule, served as FBI Executive Assistant Director for Intelligence and is now President of Bow Wave.

Josh, I want to start with you. This is just what everyone feared. I mean, what - when we heard that there were classified and top secret documents at Mar-A-Lago, everyone wondered what they are, now The Washington Post is reporting that some contained the nuclear capabilities of another nation. Can you just put this into some sort of perspective for how dangerous this is?

JOSHUA SKULE, FORMER FBI EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR INTELLIGENCE: Well, Alisyn and Victor, thank you for having me on. As far as the information goes, we've seen reporting coming out that there has been a host of information confidential secret, top secret. And having worked the majority of my career in a sensitive compartmented facility, as well as being responsible for the declassified - declassification of information, I would say that nuclear information related to another country's capabilities is some of the most sensitive information in the government, one.

Two, the access to that information, obviously, is very restricted. And then third, I think it's one thing we need to keep in mind that we do our own collection as the United States government. We also have a host of relationships with friendly governments where we could have jeopardized their sources and methods as well.

BLACKWELL: Josh, let me stay with you because the order for this special master says that the DOJ cannot continue to use these, but the Intel Community can continue to do that damage assessment. Can the Intel Community get a clear understanding of the damage done without knowing the access to the documents, to this one specifically, at Mar- A-Lago if the DOJ doesn't continue to do that work?

SKULE: Victor, I think it would be very difficult for the Intelligence Community to continue its assessment of the damage. One, you should know the FBI is a part of the Intelligence Community and their investigation would likely be helping understand the complexity of the documents, the risk that sources and methods are - have been revealed. And frankly, who else had access to this information and where they need to conduct additional interviews to understand what the risks are to that information.

CAMEROTA: Dave, how quickly can somebody be charged for this crime?

DAVE ARONBERG, STATE ATTORNEY, PALM BEACH COUNTY: Alisyn, I think we're closer to the start than the end and I think the delays that Judge Cannon impose are going to make matters a little more difficult. We don't know where the special master is going to leave, will there be disputes down the road, will Judge Cannon continue to assert jurisdiction and so we don't know.

One thing, though, that has been said is that DOJ is less likely to file charges before the midterm election. So I always thought that this is going to happen, possibly in December or January, and now with the additional delays of the special master, who knows. But the problem, as Josh said, is, how do you accommodate this delay in this review of the documents with the ongoing intelligence review of the damage caused by storing these documents at a Palm Beach social club. I mean, how do you not get the FBI involved in this intelligence review.

And that's where the judge's ruling is inconsistent and she needs to clarify it, because delays are bad enough as it is, but when it comes to nuclear secrets, it can cause huge international damage.

BLACKWELL: Some of these documents, according to the Post are not only at a certain classification level, they're need to know only, does a special master need to know the secrets in order to do his or her job, Dave? ARONBERG: Victor, the special master needs to have the highest level

security clearance to be able to access SCI documents. I mean, I used to work for the Treasury Department and I had top secret security clearance. But only in Washington, D.C. is top secret not really top secret. You've got ahead of that is code, SCI, you've got to find one of the few people in this country that has that kind of clearance and could be accommodating to both sides where both sides would be okay with that person.

Good luck with that. That's going to take a lot of delays. I mean, I think the only way that the MAGA universe is going to be satisfied with the pick of a special master, if it's someone like Rudy Giuliani, which ain't going to happen. So this shows why this judge's ruling is so difficult and really puts a real amount of harm on this investigation, because the more you delay it, the more damage that the secrets being floated out there can cause.

CAMEROTA: Josh, what does this do to our relationship with other countries?

SKULE: Well, I think those other countries, depending on what the information is, and likely the Intelligence Community with what they know now have already communicated with our closest allies. So they will know whether or not their information was at risk also and they would be doing their own damage assessments. It also involves a level of trust.

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And when you have information that is potentially accessed by those that do not have a need to know and we've seen reporting of folks accessing that storage closet routinely, they clearly did not have a clearance or a right to that information or what happen with the use of that information and whether or not they used it for some other purpose, I don't know and neither does anybody right now because the investigation has been halted.

As far as the prosecution goes, I think what you'll be looking at were those surrounding and who had access and are looking to - as you're - one of your previous guests, Phil Mudd, talks about obstruction, those who may obfuscate the truth even further by trying to protect themselves. I think that's a real danger for some of the inner circle.

CAMEROTA: Joshua Skule, Dave Aronberg, thank you both for all the information.

BLACKWELL: Last hour, former President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama were back at the White House restoring a tradition, unveiling their official White House portraits. Obama's portrait was painted by photorealist, Robert McCurdy, and painter Sharon Sprung was chosen to paint the former First Lady's portrait there.

She spoke about the greater binning behind portraits of legacy, the tradition of today's ceremony and the importance of the peaceful transition of power.

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MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: Traditions like this matter, not just for those of us who hold these positions, but for everyone participating in and watching our democracy. You see the people they make their voices heard with their vote, we hold an inauguration to ensure a peaceful transition of power.

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BLACKWELL: CNN Chief National Affairs Correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, was inside the East Room for this event. Jeff, it was the - they got the band back together, the cabinet was all there from the Obama years, what's the biggest takeaway today?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORREPONDENT: They certainly did and I think it was the words of former First Lady Michelle Obama there who really probably put the finest point on this. She said this is one of the hallmarks of democracy. Of course, the name of former President Donald Trump was never mentioned. But boy, that was the subtext there about the peaceful transition of power.

She also went on to really share a very personal anecdote saying growing up on the Southside of Chicago, a girl like her was not supposed to be hanging on the wall, next to Jacqueline Kennedy, was not supposed to be living in this White House. There's certainly some strong words there from former First Lady Michelle Obama.

But, of course, former President Barack Obama, he praised Joe Biden, of course, his longtime vice president for eight years and he said he's guided the country through some perilous times. Again, not mentioning the most recent President Donald Trump is certainly talking about. But then he also had some lighter moments, as he looked at his wife's portrait, take a listen.

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BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These portraits have a special significance, because as Joe mentioned, they will hang in the White House alongside portraits of other presidents and first ladies dating back to George and Martha. So it was important to find the right people to paint them. I want to thank Sharon Sprung for capturing everything I love about Michelle: her grace, her intelligence and the fact that she's fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: The fact that she's fine. That is what the former president said of the former first lady, of course, and that did really bring the room to an eruption of laughter there. But you could just see the closeness in their relationship. But the biggest takeaway, really, when you look through that room, it did have a feeling of a family reunion, if you will, a democratic, of course, family reunion between these two administrations, which of course were so linked for so long.

And President Obama really described the presidency as a relay race. He said, you run the race and then you hand the baton forward. Of course, there was an intervening four years there, again, that went unspoken, but they talked about their accomplishments of health care, they talked about their accomplishments of economic interests, so certainly a bit of a feel good moment for Democrats. They're now having some refreshments in the State Dining Room.

And I am told that President Obama's portrait will be hanging in the grand foyer of the White House in the most prominent position there. And it looks very different than every other presidential portrait. Of course, he's the nation's first black president, but it's also this photo realism. And so I was about 20 feet or so away from it, looking at it face-to-face, boy, it is so real. It looks like he's looking directly right back at you. Victor and Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: It really is even from this distance and Michelle Obama called her husband's comments spicy.

ZELENY: Spicy.

CAMEROTA: Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much.

ZELENY: You bet.

BLACKWELL: Dr. Fauci says the U.S. is moving closer to yearly COVID shots. So what does this mean for you, for your children for return to normalcy? We'll ask the White House COVID coordinator about that next.

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CAMEROTA: Also ahead, some Republican senators are privately concerned about the cash problems facing their party as they try to take back control from the Democrats. We have all the details ahead.

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BLACKWELL: New today, New York Governor Kathy Hochul said that masks will now be optional in most public places, including on the subway.

President Biden says the country is entering a new phase in our COVID- 19 response that will likely include a yearly COVID shots update and to protect against new variants. Joining us now is White House COVID- 19 Response Coordinator, Dr. Ashish Jha.

Dr. Jha, good to have you back. So, are we moving now from the pandemic phase of COVID-19 into the endemic phase?

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DR. ASHISH JHA, WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE COORDINATOR: Well, first of all Victor, thanks for having me back. The COVID is still out there, still causing a lot of people to get infected and get seriously ill. Obviously, you still have a lot of people dying.

So I still think of this as a pretty significant challenge that we are facing. But one way things are different is now we have all of the ability, we need to manage this virus. We can keep deaths low, we can keep schools open and businesses going. We have the capability of doing all that and we've got to work harder to make sure we're deploying those tools.

BLACKWELL: How do we know when the pandemic is over and we moved into something more manageable like the flu like the President saying you'll get a shot every year?

JHA: Yes. So there's no one definition of what it means for a pandemic to end. What I will say is with four or 500 Americans still dying out there, we still got a real challenge in front of us. But the President is absolutely right, that we are entering a phase where for a majority of Americans, this new vaccine that just got authorized, for a majority of Americans one shot a year will provide a very high degree of protection against serious ailments and that's what we got to be focused on.

And maybe for some high risk people, the elderly, immunocompromised, they may need protection more than once a year. But for a majority of Americans, that's where it is and I think that's a really good place to be.

BLACKWELL: How about children? Children would need just one shot per year?

JHA: Yes, children as well. I mean, obviously, children tend to be lower risk. A lot of kids haven't even had their primary series yet, important for them to get that. But for children who have, I think about - I have three kids under the age of 18, all of them have gotten their primary series and two of them are over 12 and they'll both get the bivalent vaccine, this new vaccine as well.

BLACKWELL: So let's talk about this new booster, the BA.5 booster rolling out now, who should get them now and who potentially can wait maybe a couple of months?

JHA: Yes, so my take is, first of all, let's talk about what is so innovative about this, why this is such a big deal. First major update of the vaccine since the original vaccines, it matches the strain that's out there, we have not done that before. We certainly haven't done that in the last two years and it should provide a higher degree of protection against infection, against transmission, against serious illness.

So I encourage, basically, everybody over the age of 12, as long as it's been a few months since you got your last shot or you got recently infected, you should go out and get it. It's going to provide a good degree of protection as we get into the fall in winter.

BLACKWELL: So help me understand this, so this booster is now tailored to what is circulating now. But if someone who - this entire time has been out here, without a vaccine, but now has seen the light, they have to get the original formula that was created two years ago that is not tailored to what's circulating now, explain that.

JHA: Yes, yes, so first of all, 80 percent of adults, almost 80 percent of adults have gotten the primary series, the two shots. So we're talking about a small minority. And for that small minority, the - what the original vaccine does is it provides a strong base of protection. So right now, FDA is still saying you got to go out and get those two original shots. That'll provide you that baseline and then you can come back a couple of months later and get the new COVID, the new variant specific vaccine, the bivalent vaccine.

We may see that transition over time later, but right now, if you've not gotten any vaccine shots at all, it's really important to have that baseline immunity.

BLACKWELL: Dr. Jha, I got a bone to pick with you. You said that it's a good idea to get the flu shot in one arm and the booster in the other. "This is why God gave us two arms." I did that in November and it felt like God had come to take His arms back. Why do you want to put people through that and how - why don't we have a single shot yet? Is that coming?

JHA: Yes. It's a - first of all, let's talk about the single shot. It is - people are working on it. We're not going to have it for this fall, unfortunately. My hope is we'll see it next year or the year after. Look, just kind of - again, with all of these things, you always want to make sure you're getting it right and that it's working effectively and safely, but that is being worked on.

And, look, I think it's really important as a doctor who's worked in hospitals during the holiday season, every year for 20 years, I see the hospitals get packed with people who are very, very sick because of the flu and then in the last couple of years because of COVID. I just want to make sure people are protected over the holidays, see their family and their loved ones and not get sick, not end up in the hospital or worse. And that's why I've been encouraging everybody, get your flu shot, get your COVID shot. Have a really good fall winter the holiday season.

BLACKWELL: All right. I would recommend putting two or three days between them, but you're the doctor, I am not. Dr. Ashish Jha, thank you very much.

JHA: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: I was ...

CAMEROTA: What's going with you?

BLACKWELL: ... I was sitting in this very chair, you remember that day?

CAMEROTA: Where you couldn't move your arms?

BLACKWELL: I felt like I had toddlers hanging from my arms ...

CAMEROTA: You're like (inaudible) ...

BLACKWELL: I was like something has to change.

CAMEROTA: I'm glad you held him responsible for that.

BLACKWELL: Well, it's his words. He got to answer for it.

[15:25:00]

CAMEROTA: All right. Meanwhile, top Republicans are upping fundraising efforts. The Committee dedicated to election has a serious cash problem, add to that some high level infighting. We have all the new reporting ahead.

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