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Princes William And Harry Seen Together For The First Time Since June; King Pledging To "Follow The Inspiring Example" Of His Mother; Ukrainian Forces Advance In Eastern Ukraine; Zelenskyy Speaks To CNN About Ukraine Counteroffensive; All The Queen's Corgis: A Lifetime Love Affair. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired September 10, 2022 - 19:00   ET




PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. Great to have you along with us on this Saturday.

The top stories for you tonight, the people of the United Kingdom are mourning their queen. And the nation sadness might, emphasis on might, be fine frosty relations within the royal family.

Plus, Ukrainian troops forcing Russia to regroup and retreat from a region they've held for six months. Is this a turning point as we see a defiant Ukraine taking its territory back?

And an Alabama pastor put in handcuffs while watering his neighbor's flowers. Now he's taking the arresting officers to court.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Well, as the people of Great Britain and a world of admirers mourn the loss of Queen Elizabeth II, we have new details tonight about the events of the coming days. How her subjects and her nation will pay tribute. Buckingham Palace released information on the Queen's final cross country journey leading to her formal funeral service Monday, September 19.

And tomorrow morning, the Queen's coffin leaves Balmoral Castle for the official Scottish residents of the British Royal Family in Edinburgh. Her hearse will make the six hour journey to allow motorists to pay their respects. The coffin will then be moved from Edinburgh to Buckingham Palace in London, before moving again on Wednesday to Westminster Hall for the line in state which will end on the morning of the state funeral at Westminster Abbey. Earlier today, full ceremonial pomp and circumstance when her son, King Charles III, was officially proclaimed the new British monarch.

King Charles addressed the nation from the throne room at St. James's Palace in London today. And joining him were his son Prince Williams and his wife, Camilla, the Queen Consort.


KING CHARLES III: My mother's rain was unequaled in its duration, its dedication, and its devotion. Even as we grieve, we give thanks for this most faithful life. And in carrying out the heavy task that has been laid upon me, and to which by now dedicate what remains to me of my life, I pray for the guidance and help of Almighty God


BROWN: And an extraordinary event today, the King's sons, Princes William and Harry spent over 45 minutes with the crowd of mourners on the streets right outside Windsor Castle. It was the first time the princes had been seen together since June.

CNN Scott McLean is at Windsor Castle.

So, Scott, what more do we know about why Prince William invited Harry and Meghan for this walkabout?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Pamela. According to a royal source, who told my colleague Max Foster this was Prince William inviting his brother Harry and Meghan as a show of unity, in their words. Now of course, the brothers have had a very well publicized rift over the last few years. But ever since the Queen's death a few days ago there are some hopeful signs that all of branches are being extended. First King Charles mentioned Harry and Meghan by name in his very first speech to the nation as king, and now this very public show of unity here in Windsor today.


MCLEAN (voice-over): As the gates of Windsor Castle open Saturday, Prince William and Harry walked out side by side, the Queen's death, reuniting the brothers publicly for the first time since June. It was also the first time crowds got to see Kate in her new title as Princess of Wales. The couple's made their way down long rows of people paying tribute to the Queen, young people sharing cards and toys, people of all ages pushing flowers into their arms. Even pets got the royal treatment.

Fourteen year old Amelka Zak was particular barely moved to meet Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex.


AMELKA ZAK, HUGGED MEGHAN, DUTCHESS OF SUSSEX: It was just quite an amazing moment. I'm still shaking now. It was quite nice to see William and Kate and Meghan and Harry together. And it was fine. But yes, I just wanted to like show her that she's, like, welcome here, I guess and wants to hug her after everything that's happened really now.

MCLEAN (voice-over): Before the Queen died Thursday, it had been a turbulent two years, with Harry and Meghan stepping back as working members of the royal family. The last time the princes saw each other, they did not interact. But on Saturday, they seem to at least temporarily put their differences aside, kneeling to pay their respects to a monarch who united a country in mourning.


BROWN: And Scott, we heard chairs when they walked out as a foursome. What are people telling you about that moment when they saw Princes William and Harry together again?

MCLEAN: Yes, so Pam, we had been told initially that there would be a visit. Obviously, when the staff put barriers up, people figured that someone was going to come and shake hands, they figured likely that it was going to be William and Kate. I don't think anyone expected to see Harry and Meghan, so they were surprised. I think they were also hopeful that perhaps this is a sign of genuine reconciliation to come not just a temporary show of unity.

And no matter what you think about either couple, every single person that I spoke to said that they were hopeful that the brothers could get their relationship back on track. Listen.


SAM SUMMERIN, PAYING RESPOECTS TO QUEEN: We're going through the same emotions, anger, her grief, whatever those are, and it will pull you together in the end. And without understanding the wrong way, this might work for them and maybe heal some rifts that they've got. I don't know, that's not my family, every family is different, but he can but hope.


MCLEAN: Now in that famous or maybe infamous interview with Oprah Winfrey, Harry described his relationship with his brother as space. On the grounds of Windsor Castle or the grounds of Windsor Castle estate, the two cottages that the Windsors and the Cambridges or the Cornwall is now are living in are just about 600 yards apart. So space is not the issue now with the Queen's funeral still nine days away, they also have time, Pam.

BROWN: They certainly do. And people are going to be watching every one of their moves to see if this really is the beginning of a more longer term reconciliation and show of unity.

Scott McLean, right outside Windsor Castle, thank you.

Well, as the oldest royal to be crowned king, King Charles is already a familiar figure on the world stage. CNN's Bianca Nobilo takes a closer look at all the years he spent in training for this very moment, some marked by controversy.


KING CHARLES III: I would hope that we might strive for an age of reverence, reverence for what gives us life and for the fragile world in which we live. BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Charles was born on November 14, 1948 to then heir to the throne Princess Elizabeth and Prince Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To Princess Elizabeth Eros presumptive to the crown as some had been bought, lamb (ph) news that was sewn echoing around the world.

NOBILO (voice-over): Charles was bestowed a host of titles at a young age, but did not become Prince of Wales until 1969, a role he sought to professionalize and redefine. Many of Charles's predecessors treated the title Prince of Wales as a ticket to a luxury lifestyle, notably the previous Prince of Wales, the short reigned King Edward VIII.

While Charles did indulge in partying years, the British press giving him the nickname "The Playboy Prince." He didn't want to wait until he became king to make a difference. Following his studies at Cambridge University, Charles went into the military. After leaving the Royal Navy in 1976, he founded the Prince's Trust.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Prince's Trust is something that he cares deeply about because he's done it for so long. It's one of his first causes, his first charities, but it also speaks to something he feels very strongly about, which is youth unemployment.

NOBILO (voice-over): On top of his own charities, his patron of over 400 more dedicated to subjects close to his heart, youth, environment, and education. His schedule notoriously intense. In a typical year, he would carry out more than 500 Royal engagements, official duties coordinated from his London base at Clarence House.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So he's a perfectionist. He wants to know everything about all of his different projects and causes and roles.

NOBILO (voice-over): Charles will forever be associated with his marriage to Princess Diana. He first met Lady Diana Spencer in 1977 at her family home of Althop, she was 17 at the time. Four years later, they were met worried.


KING CHARLES III: I'm amazed that she's been brave enough to take me on.

NOBILO (voice-over): In 1982, William was born and Harry in 1984. Their parents going against the royal tradition of homebirths. Cracks in the marriage was soon apparent, both began extramarital relationships. Charles admitted to an affair with Camilla Parker Bowles, who he went on to marry many years later in a quiet ceremony in 2005.

Charles and Diana divorced in 1996. The following year, Diana died in a fatal car crash alongside her lover, Dodi Fayed in Paris.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: His priority was to look after the boys and there's been a huge amount of criticism over the years of both the Queen and Charles for the fact that they didn't come down to London and support the nation. They very clearly made the decision to prioritize family over duties at that moment.

NOBILO (voice-over): In that tumultuous time, Charles did what he had always done, put his head down and focused on his work. His campaigns sometimes sail dangerously close to the line dividing the monarchy and politics. The infamous black spider memos revealed his passionate pleas on issues he was concerned about, and gave him the nickname of the meddling prince.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The head of state, which is the monarch, they have a duty to remain independent. Charles always took the view that he had more leeway before he was on the throne. But he always made it very clear that when he became monarch, he would no longer express opinions in that way.

NOBILO (voice-over): Arguably, the cause his champion the most is the environment. His home at Highgrove was set up to become an organic farming powerhouse. He talked about pollution issues long before they were mainstream, becoming a leading figure in the fight against the climate crisis and plastic pollution.

KING CHARLES III: Global warming, climate change, and the devastating loss of biodiversity are the greatest threats humanity has ever faced.

NOBILO (voice-over): Charles is now the oldest royal to be crowned king or queen, much of his legacy already written.

Bianca Nobilo, CNN, London.


BROWN: And the future of the monarchy was on display during Prince William and Prince Harry's joint appearance this morning right outside Windsor Castle.

CNN Royal Historian Kate Williams joins us now.

So Kate, what did you make of that extraordinary moment that, I think safe to say, surprise most, if not all of us?

KATE WILLIAMS, CNN ROYAL HISTORIAN: Yes, Pamela, what a surprise. I was there watching it with Fredricka (ph). We were expecting a royal visit but there was the Fab Four, as they used to be called, coming down the road into the surrounding crowds, who -- as you're showing there, they're just so overwhelmed and thrilled to meet them so excited. You know, babies, dogs being thrust at them. We're just really delighted to see them together again.

And you know, I found it so heartening. It's been an emotional roller coaster here in the U.K. It was a real shock when the Queen passed on Thursday, and really was in a lot of grief. And this was a real high point, a real reminder that death is, you know, something we suffer as humans, but it also can bring us together. And really, I found it so moving because the last time that I really

remember, you know, the image I have of the brothers looking at flowers is in -- as William talked about earlier today in his statement about the queen, he said she was with me during the saddest days of my life. That was in the 1997 when the tragic death of Princess Diana and all those flowers were outside all the palaces and the two boys came out with their father to look at the flowers outside Balmoral castle where, of course, the Queen is -- has passed, is now resting. And that to me was just thinking about what those boys have been through together.

And there's been a lot of hurt, a lot of suffering, a lot of criticism, and they are coming together. And I really hope that this means that the reign of King Charles is going to see a bigger role for Harry and Meghan because I would say, Pamela, he's in a honeymoon period but his approval ratings have been low before and he needs Harry and Meghan to star power. He's got the princess and -- prince and princess of Wales, Kate and William, but he needs Harry and Meghan star power.

BROWN: Yes. And that raises the next question. Does -- what does he need to do? Does he need to reinvent himself after decades as Prince Charles or as we just saw in Bianca's piece, he, you know, was very engaged in certain charities and would be metal, as some would say in politics and so forth.

WILLIAMS: Yes, as Bianca was putting it so eloquently, a lot of his legacy is behind him. He's the oldest ever person in Britain to come to the throne, the longest serving heir. I have to say as a historian, the most popular monarchs are the ones who come to the throne young like Elizabeth herself, a young mother 25, Victoria was young, just 18, Elizabeth I also, and also Henry VII, very young too. So, Charles has an uphill struggle, I think.


And also his reign, as he said himself, what of my life remains will be shorter than that of the Queen. That's simply the case. So he doesn't have the luxury of knowing that, well, longevity, that even if there are those, there will be highs.

And I think what we're going to see with Charles as well, there are a lot of changes. It's clear, he's been thinking about this throughout his time as Prince of Wales, he knows what he wants to do and not letting the cameras into the Privy Council, which we've never seen before, huge moment of British history, I think -- I hope that this means the monarch is going to be engaging in a new era, I think, of transparency.

And there will be a lot of things to deal with Britain's on the brink of an economic crisis and there are big questions about the role of the monarchy, particularly globally and in the Commonwealth.

BROWN: And also, you know, you can't ignore the fact that there is a cloud of colonialism that is hung over the monarchy. Do you expect King Charles to address that? WILLIAMS: This is a really interesting and key point, Pamela. I think this has to be the most urgent issue that the monarchy addresses, the question of colonialism, which has always been there, but really has been brought to the fore by the Black Lives Matter movement.

And many people across the world are really questioning the monarchy in this sense. Of course, the monarchy -- the British monarchy is not just head of state of Britain, but of other countries, 14 other countries. And most of these countries have said, well, while the Queen was here, we're not going to do anything.

But as soon as the Queen is no longer present, no longer with us, we are going to look into the question of being a republic, no longer having the monarch as head of state, Jamaica, Australia, we've heard it also in from Belize, Antigua, there are republican movements in Canada, republican movements in New Zealand. This I think is going to be a domino effect that we see quite quickly.

There were Caribbean tours earlier this year from Wheeling Cape, which were not successful and really made people think of colonialism. Charles has been -- he made in Jamaica sort of a movement towards and did so apologizing for slavery. But this has got to be a bigger matter, I think. And also, as other countries leave, don't longer have the king as head of state, I think the Commonwealth is going to change. For the queen, it was hands together, countries joined in unity.

But for many of those in the Commonwealth, this is 2.5 billion people, particularly the young, they see it as founded in the oppression, the exploitation, the horror of empire, and many of them want out of the Commonwealth and to ally with other countries. So, this -- overseeing this change with grace and really with acceptance is Charles's key role. And I think he needs to really engage, as you say, with what are the stains of the empire that are -- that of British history.

BROWN: All right. Kate Williams, thank you so much.

And so ahead for you tonight, the Queen and her corgis. I'm so looking forward to this segment because we're going to talk about her love of animals with a man who actually helped train some of her pets and had a special relationship with her.

Plus, a major counter offensive showing will results for Ukraine as Russia's military says it's leaving the Kharkiv region, quote, "temporarily."

But next, an Alabama pastor says three police officers violated his rights by arresting him while watering his neighbor's flowers.



BROWN: A pastor arrested earlier this year while watering his neighbor's plants has now filed a federal lawsuit against the police department involved in his detainment. Take a look at this body cam video.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just calm down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, stop. I like this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. We're just trying to talk to you and see --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want to argue with you. OK?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want to arrest you either.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You let your guard (INAUDIBLE) and let me up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Sit down man, just --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Let me call my wife.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not calling nobody.



BROWN: Pastor Michael Jennings spoke to reporters today in Birmingham.


PASTOR MICHAEL JENNINGS, VISION OF ABUNDANT LIFE CHURCH: What they did that day they did with impunity, if you're going to be no action taken against them. I felt dehumanized, I felt little, I felt helpless, and it hurt me.


BROWN: CNN's Nadia Romero has been following developments. You know watching that video camera -- the body cam video, knowing that he was just watering his neighbor's plants it's really disturbing, Nadia. What is this pastor claiming in his lawsuit?

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well Pamela, the pastor today throughout that press conference and the rally there after you see him being very emotional, taking off his glasses and putting his head in his hands wiping back tears. He's alleging that the police, when they first arrived and they saw him.

Now a neighbor called and said that there was a suspicious man in their neighbor's yard and it turned out to be another neighbor, Pastor Michael Jennings was simply across the street watering his neighbor's flowers when they were out of town, doing them a favor. And when police arrived, Pastor Jennings says as soon as they saw that he was a black man they immediately decided that he was guilty of a crime. Now things really started to escalate when he refused to show them I.D. Fe said he identified himself, he told them where he lived, he said he didn't have his I.D. on him. But he believed that he was going to be arrested no matter what.

We saw him being arrested. He was charged with obstructing governmental operations. Those charges were later dismissed. But he says there's more that we don't see on the recording and he explains exactly how he felt that day and in the months prior -- past, that happened back in May. And he says he's been dealing with this emotional trauma ever since, take a listen.


JENNINGS: Once I turn to go water back flowers, he told me if you leave I'm going to arrest you. That is not on the video. I walked around and he grab me, secured me, put the handcuffs on me, made me feel like I was a slave if you want to (ph), felt like I was being kidnapped. They took my phone with all my personal information on it. That hurt me.


They sat me down, begin to haul at me. I hauled back and told them I wasn't a boy. Don't scream at me.


ROMERO: So the charges were later dropped. And we have reached out to the local police chief and the mayor's office since this press conference happened today to get their response, we've yet to hear back from them.

Pamela, there's no dollar amount on this lawsuit. It's all about seeking justice. That's what the pastor says. Pamela.

BROWN: All right. Nadia Romero, thanks for bringing us that report.

Well, new claims tonight, the Russia is on the run as Ukraine claims major gains in strategic cities occupied for months by Russian troops in the east and south. So, what does this mean? Is this a turning point in the war, war in Ukraine, next?



BROWN: Ukrainian troops are claiming some major victories this weekend as they fight to take back territory occupied for months by Russian forces.

It is a fast moving counteroffensive by the Ukrainian military that analysts say shows that the tide of the war is shifting.

CNN's Melissa Bell is in Ukraine.

Melissa, give us an update.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pam, more than 2,000 square kilometers of territory recaptured by Ukrainian forces since the first of September, that's what President Zelenskyy has announced tonight in his nightly address, really remarkable advances, not just being made down in the southern parts of the country where counteroffensive kicked off on August 29th, but much more spectacularly in Eastern Ukraine where a second counteroffensive began just five days ago.

What we've seen over the course of the last few days, specifically since Thursday is Ukrainian forces sweep eastward with remarkable speed, taking village after village with images appearing on social media. This is after all, a counteroffensive that is the subject of a media blackout. So, it is the pictures being posted by the soldiers themselves that are showing the world, people being liberated in those villages, Ukrainian flags being put on rooftops.

And what we're hearing from the advance, we're beginning to piece together is a picture not just of troops moving first eastwards and southwards taking only this Saturday, the cities of Kupiansk and Izyum, an extremely important military hub for what had been the Russian occupying forces there in the Kharkiv region.

What we're hearing from that very fast advance is a remarkable story of very little resistance, opposite stories emerging of some village having been taken without a struggle at all. Some Russian soldiers simply leaving their equipment and uniforms, putting on civilian clothes and heading to the border.

We're beginning to hear reports also up by the Russian border, as people tried to flee across the border of some lines of traffic forming there, but really quite extraordinary pictures of those advancing Ukrainian forces, again, in the face of remarkably little resistance.

Now, what happens is that in those parts that have been secured, Ukrainian authorities are going to go back, make sure they can take control, clean up the towns, and the fear is what they're going to find that the Russian forces may have left behind -- Pam.

BROWN: Yes, an understandable fear there.

Melissa Bell in Ukraine, thank you for that.

Well, yesterday, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy spoke with CNN's Fareed Zakaria about the military advances Ukraine has made in recent days.


FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": Mr. President, let me ask you about the battle right now. It does appear that Ukraine is moving forward in Kherson, in other parts of the East. Is this the beginning of a campaign to roll back the Russian invasion of February 24th. VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINE PRESIDENT (through translator): You know

that our goal is to de-occupy our whole territory. The main goal is de-occupation. We just cannot allow Russia to continue the same occupation that they started back in 2014.

They are eating you piecemeal, bit by bit, Russian cannibalism, I would call it this way, and I don't want to play this game. I don't like this.

We will not be standing still. We will be slowly, gradually moving forward.


BROWN: Joining us now is CNN military analyst and retired Air Force, Colonel Cedric Leighton.

All right, so help us put this all into context. This war has been going on for over six months. We've been hearing about Ukraine taking back its land. Bottom line, is this a major turning point for Ukraine?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Pamela, I think it is a major turning point for Ukraine, and the reason for that is, it's all about the momentum on the battlefield. And when you look at some of the intangibles about warfare, you know, we talk about the number of missiles that a country has, the number of airplanes, the number of tanks, all those things matter.

But what really matters once you have those pieces in place is the way in which you move forward, the way in which you've got yourself organized, the way in which you command your troops.

And the fact that what the Ukrainians are doing is moving so quickly tells me that they have a lot of really esprit de corps, what we would do in the military call esprit de corps, in other words the morale that is necessary in order to move forward.

And the reason they've got this is they are defending their homeland. The Russians are there because they don't know -- and they don't know why they're there.


LEIGHTON: And the reason that's so important is if you don't know what you're fighting for, you're not going to be a good fighter, but if you do understand what you're fighting for, if you know that you're protecting your homeland, you know you're protecting your family, you know, you're protecting yourself and your comrades, you're going to do that in even much more impressive way than you would if you didn't have those things to fight for.

BROWN: Yes, and not to mention the Russians are, you know, more than six months into fighting for something that many of them don't believe in, don't know what their mission is exactly, or why they're doing it.

And so it leads me to the question of, how much is this progress for Ukraine about the momentum it has and its capabilities militarily versus just Russia not having the will to fight and not having the organizational structure and what it needs?

LEIGHTON: Well, you know, I think it is interesting, it's really a combination of both, because on the Ukrainian side, you have a really streamlined command structure that is really different from what the Russian structure is.

They give their lowest echelon authority to do things. The Russians don't do this. The Russians are still wedded to Soviet doctrine, in essence, which means only the top gets to decide what is going on and how to move forward.

If you don't get the orders from the top, you don't do anything. And that's very demoralizing for the troops in the trenches. And the fact also that they don't really know, Pamela that, you know, that they're fighting for, you know, a certain ideal or something that is greater than themselves, that makes a real difference in this particular case.

So, when the Ukrainians move forward, they're doing it, yes, based on Western aid, they're doing it because they have certain strategic objectives in mind, but what's really important is that they can get those strategic objectives, they can take those strategic objectives in a way that allows them to not only take the first one, but then the second one and the ones after that, so it becomes really a cascading effect and that is very, very important for their momentum.

So this, for that reason, could very well be a turning point in this war.

BROWN: How much of a challenge though, do the Ukrainians have ahead of them, in terms of keeping the land that they have been able to retake? I mean, the Russians as you know, said that, hey, we'll be back. This is just temporary. What do you make of that?

LEIGHTON: So, the Russians are obviously sending a warning. And from on high, you know, from the highest echelons of the Russian military, of course, they want to keep the territory that they've taken and they want to take more, they have not abandoned the goals of, you know, carving out a large portion of Ukraine, in fact, even decapitating the entire country, but that becomes really unrealistic, given the Ukrainian resistance that we're seeing.

So the Ukrainians have got to be very careful, though. Yes, they've got momentum on their side, but the Russians are not sleeping exactly.

They are fighting back in certain ways, but they don't have some of the material that they need in order to do that, the sanctions are apparently taking effect in certain areas that impact military readiness. The Russians are getting ammunition from North Korea, for example, that's a very different thing. They're getting drones from Iran, so they don't have the supply lines that they really need in order to win the war.

The Ukrainians don't on their own have the supply lines they need to take the war into Russia, but what the Ukrainians can do is they can take the war to their former borders. And that's I think, what their goal is, that's how they think will get to the peace table in this particular case.

BROWN: I just think about when the beginning of this war happened, what -- six months in two weeks ago, we were at that magic wall, and we all thought that Kyiv was going to fall in two days. And now here we are, I mean, I don't think any of us could have predicted where we would be in this war at this point.

LEIGHTON: No, not at all, Pamela, and that is what's so different about this because nobody thought, even the Ukrainians themselves, many of them do not even think that they would be able to resist the Russians to this extent.

So on the one hand, it's Ukrainian morale; on the other hand, it's the failure of the Russian system to actually work and in essence, the Russian military has proven itself to be a Potemkin village.

BROWN: Yes, absolutely.

All right, Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you so much. Good to see you.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Pamela.

BROWN: And you can see more on Fareed Zakaria's exclusive from Kyiv, one-on-one with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy, tomorrow at 1:00 PM on "Fareed Zakaria GPS."

And you are in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Saturday. Up next, we're going to take a look at the special love between the Queen and her corgis. What's next for the Royal dogs? I'm going to ask our next guest who once trained the Queen's beloved pets, up next.



BROWN: Well, when you think of Queen Elizabeth, you might picture her with her beloved, Pembroke Welsh Corgis, the dog breed she learned to love as a little girl, and kept close at hand for her entire life.

It was an exclusive passion we should note. "The New York Times" reports that when she died on Thursday, the Queen left behind a Royal pack that included two corgis, a corgi dash hound crossed known as a dorgi and a cocker spaniel.

And joining us now the Queen's former Corgi trainer and animal psychologist Dr. Roger Mugford. Doctor, thank you so much for staying up late for us. I've been looking forward to this conversation all day.

I first have to ask how are the dogs doing without the Queen, do you think? And do we know who's going to take them in. We hear King Charles prefers Jack Russell terriers? DR. ROGER MUGFORD, FORMER QUEEN ELIZABETH'S CORGI TRAINER AND ANIMAL

PSYCHOLOGIST: Prince Charles may not be the ultimate destination for these dogs, but look she has a big extended family and all of the Royals are really mad about animals and mad about dogs.


MUGFORD: So, I'm absolutely certain that they'll find a happy home. I know for sure that Princess Anne is really mad about dogs. I went to her home to treat her mad English bull terrier, Dotty and she has quite a collection of dogs, which she inherited this tendency from her mum and Andrew has two terriers as well.

And you mentioned King Charles -- King Charles III has had Jack Russell's. I'm not sure whether he has a dog right now. But Prince William also has a hunting type dog, a Labrador.

So, there's plenty of other family to turn to if the late Queen's dogs need a home.

BROWN: And you know, you're an animal psychologist. We know that animals when their owner is no longer around right? They feel that. They know that. And we don't know how hands-on she was there later in life. But tell us, you know, what do you think they're going through in that regard?

MUGFORD: Well, I'm sure that there has been a true strong attachment of the Queen with the dogs and the dogs were in return. But throughout her life, she has had to rely upon support, if you like delegation of care of the animals to others, just as with her horses. You know, she's a big stable, big racing stable and many professionals are looking after our horses.

So, that doesn't diminish her own interests and affection for animals. So, when she has been a busy working woman traveling the world, so many times away from home, so inevitably, other people have had to step in and look after her dogs. So, they will be easily transferring protections and attention to others.

But it's a good question. And I mean, some dogs do form strong, exclusive attachments to their own. I'd like to think that my little Korean dog, Dave, here is that person, you know that I'm the only person in his life. But he's just saying no, I am not. You're okay for the time being, but some days, it is eating better.

BROWN: I always think my dog, Bingo, is so attached to me, and then like someone else comes in the house and he is over me and into them. And I'm like, okay, well, I guess he won't be very sad then if I leave him.

But I want to ask you because you do, we should note, have a personal relationship, you had a personal relationship with the Queen. Do you have any special anecdotes that you can share with us? How are you remembering her now?

MUGFORD: Well, I remember with great affection, she put me a nervous -- a much younger than I am now attentive animal psychologist at ease immediately as everyone who has described how they met her and they felt like you were the only person that mattered in that conversation.

She was, of course very agile, very involved in her animal care. So, she spoke with enormous interest about anything to do with her animals and be that dogs or horses.

One thing that you should know is she was very hands-on dog owner. Now there's a palace, Buckingham Palace, which is 20 miles from Windsor Castle and there is a there's a highway between the two and she would personally drive an old General Motors type vehicle truck.

And between the two with full of dogs, full of up to 10 dogs, I'm sure yapping and leaping about herself without any security, wearing her like patented headscarf, and up and down the highway.

Now, how many of the most famous woman in the world probably -- how many people, how many Presidents, how many Prime Ministers would feel free to do that?

So she was very hands-on, took her dog for walks, picked up the poop. I've seen her do that.

BROWN: Really?

MUGFORD: So, nothing was beneath her dignity.

BROWN: That's surprising.

MUGFORD: Yes. The side of dog owning none of us enjoy.

BROWN: That is a sign of a true love for your animals when you get to that level, especially I mean for the Queen. Wow. Amazing.

All right, Dr. Roger Mugford, I could talk to you all night, but we do have some other news to get to. Thank you so much for your time and again, thanks for staying up late for us. We appreciate it.

And we'll be right back.

MUGFORD: Thank you, Pamela. God bless us all.



BROWN: Former British Prime Ministers Boris Johnson and Theresa May are among the UK leaders paying tribute to Queen Elizabeth this weekend.

United in their grief and admiration for the late Queen, here is what they had to say about Elizabeth the Great.


THERESA MAY, FORMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Queen Elizabeth II was quite simply the most remarkable person I have ever met. I am sometimes asked among all the world leaders I've met who was the most impressive, and I have no hesitation in saying that from all the Heads of State in government, the most impressive person I met was her late Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II.

BORIS JOHNSON, FORMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Millions of us are trying to understand why we are feeling this deep and personal and almost familial sense of loss. Perhaps, it's partly that she's always been there, a changeless human reference point in British life.

So, I am burying in her post star radiance that we have perhaps been lulled into thinking that she might be in some way eternal, she knew how to keep us going, when times were toughest.

MAY: Across the nations of the world, and for so many people, meeting Queen Elizabeth simply made their day, and for many will be the memory of their life.

Of course, for those of us who had the honor to serve as one of her Prime Ministers, those meetings were more frequent with the weekly audiences. These were not meetings with a high and mighty monarch, but a conversation with a woman of experience and knowledge and immense wisdom.

JOHNSON: I believe she would regard it as her own highest achievement, that her son, Charles III will clearly and amply follow her own extraordinary standards of duty and service.

GROUP: Hear, hear.

JOHNSON: And the fact that today we can say with such confidence, God save the King is a tribute to him, but above all, to Elizabeth the Great.