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Ukraine Reclaims Territory In Counteroffensive; Queen's Coffin To Be Flown To London In Coming Hours; Thousands Mourn And Pay Respects At St. Giles' Cathedral; Ardern Predicts New Zealand will Become a Republic; Interview with Former New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark; King Charles to Go to Northern Ireland for Memorial Events; Queen Elizabeth II Honored by Northern Ireland; More Than 30 Trump Allies Subpoenaed; Interview with Politico, National Political Correspondent David Siders; Queen Cherished by Many in Belfast for Facilitating Reconciliation; After 2020 Defeat, Trump Promised to Remain in Office; "Booster Failure" Experienced by Blue Origin Spacecraft; Secrets of Star Birth Revealed in New "Breathtaking" Webb Photos; Emmy's Ceremony Puts a Focus on Historic Victories. Aired 2-3a ET
Aired September 13, 2022 - 02:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers all around the world. I'm Becky Anderson at Buckingham Palace. And right now, thousands of people are lined up in Scotland to pay their respects to Queen Elizabeth before her coffin leaves for London later today.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: I'm John Vause here in Atlanta. In just four days, a lightning fast Ukrainian counter-offensive is said to have reversed four months of gains by the Russian military. But what's next?
ANDERSON: Well, in the coming hours here in London, Queen Elizabeth II will make her final journey back to Buckingham Palace after an emotional farewell in Scotland. The late monarch is now lying at rest at St. Giles' Cathedral in Edinburgh where thousands of people have filed past her coffin to pay their respects. A steady stream of mourners continuing through the night after the queen's coffin is flown to London later today.
It will remain at Buckingham Palace before being moved to Westminster Hall on Wednesday. And there she will lie in state until her funeral next Monday., Well, CNN correspondents are covering all of the developments. Isa Soares is standing by right outside St. Giles' Cathedral in Edinburgh. And Nina dos Santos joins me here in London outside Buckingham Palace. Isa, let me start with you.
The royal -- last royal journey as it were, the Royal Mile to St. Giles' Cathedral, a very somber occasion and now an opportunity for those who are gathered to pay their respects. You've been speaking to people who are there. What are they telling you?
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: It was a day like you said, Becky, of great solemnities yesterday along the Royal Mile. And really, an outpouring -- what we've been seeing is an outpouring of love and respect for the late queen. Now, you can see behind me there has been a steady stream of people of mourners making their way inside St. Giles' Cathedral to pay respects of course to the queen.
The numbers are not as long now, not as many people as we saw yesterday. Bbut one police officer was telling us, Becky, was between 60 and 70,000 people last night. Now it's actually moving quite quickly. The sun is rising, it's going to get warm. And I think you'll see that line really filling up in the next few hours. But it's a very smooth security operation. People get their wristbands, they go in line, they go check through security operation like what you see in an airport.
Check through bags, they go in, they come out and some people have done quite a few -- a few rounds actually to be honest with you. So, incredibly moving for people having the opportunity to pay their respects to the queen. I'm joined here by Bruce. I'm going to move out the way so you can see him. And Bruce who is a former army staff sergeant. And Bruce, you've just come out in the last few minutes. How long were you lining up for?
BRUCE KARCZEWSKI, SCOTTISH VETERAN: From security to actually getting in, probably about 15 minutes.
SOARES: So quite a smooth operation and when you got up very early in the morning.
KARCZEWSKI: Yes. I was up 3:00 this morning.
SOARES: And just talk to us, explain to our viewers what that moment felt like for you.
KARCZEWSKI: Very moving. But you have so little time to give when she -- when she has given so much time herself. And we will be giving her seconds, you know, in memory, you know. And starting there and saluting, you know, and saying sleep well, boss.
SOARES: Is that what you said? Well, and you saluted her.
KARCZEWSKI: Correct. Yes.
SOARES: Important moment for you to travel, for you to get up here. And to say thank you for the years of service to your old boss.
KARCZEWSKI: Yes. I know -- when I was in the army most of the people who I was in with, they (INAUDIBLE) show they wouldn't be able to come up to Scotland and see this. There's not many of us in the Dental Corps who lived in Scotland. So, I suppose I'm thinking and representing the core in that way.
SOARES: Thank you very much, Bruce. A poignant moment of course not just for Bruce, Becky, but for so many other Scots who said they're so moved with the fact that the queen in many ways passed in Scotland. We know how dear is was Scotland to the queen and an opportunity of course for them to pay their respects as a queen now begins what prince -- or what King Charles has called her last great journey. Becky?
ANDERSON: Isa Soares is in Edinburgh in Scotland. Isa, thank you. Nina Dos Santos with me here. The head of the Metropolitan Police Force newly installed and the job himself has described the preparations for the queen's lie in state as a massive challenge. But one that the tens of thousands of officers who will be on duty in London will rise too.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This is an unprecedentedly a significant event for generations and it's going to attract authorities who are expecting somewhere between 750,000 and potentially up to two million people to the British capitol as of tomorrow when the queen's coffin will lie in state in Westminster Hall. People are expected to queue and line the streets for hours at a time.
ANDERSON: That was the 30 hours I've been told.
DOS SANTOS: Indeed. Perhaps even upwards of 24, 30 hours. Some people already there, despite the fact that authorities have said please don't come yet because the queen's coffin obviously is still in Scotland at the moment. But this is not just an unprecedented security challenge. It's also a logistical challenge as well, one that authorities have been preparing for for some time.
As you pointed out 10,000 officers will be participating in crowd control and policing the event, the state funeral next week. But also 1500 members of the army as well they'd be drafted and we're talking about three helicopters. The only thing that the U.K.'s had to police in similar circumstances of this order of magnitude was the Olympic Games about a decade or so ago. And state funerals. Remember, the last time we saw in this country was 1965 when Winston Churchill died, but obviously that was a different time.
There were different security challenges. And obviously not everybody would have had the means to arrive here in London and try and pay their respects.
ANDERSON: Let's just remind our viewers what happens then over the coming days. The coffin will stay in Scotland until when?
DOS SANTOS: Until this evening. It's expected to then be transported from St. Giles to an aircraft that will be waiting. It'll be transported from Edinburgh to RAF Northolt which is Royal Air Force Base just in the northwest of London. Princess and the queen's only daughter, the princess royal will be traveling with her mother's coffin, and then it will be taken off the plane and it'll arrive here at Buckingham Palace where members of the royal family will already have arrived. We'll expect King Charles III and other members of the royal family to already be here to receive the coffin. It'll then lay in the ballroom for a night. It'll be watched over by chaplains before of course tomorrow is when it'll be moved in big ceremony to Westminster.
ANDERSON: And they've been doing rehearsals for that overnight here. As Nina pointed out, the logistics, the machinations of getting this right over the next seven days or so. Might seem quite overwhelming but as I say the head of the Met, the newly installed head of the Met says they are ready to rise to the challenge. Nina, thank you very much indeed.
Well, King Charles III's wife Camilla now Queen Consort has had controversy following her for decades, but that hasn't stopped her from supporting her husband as well as various philanthropic causes. CNN's Randi Kaye has their story.
CHARLES: I know she will bring to the demands of her new role. The steadfast devotion to duty on which I have come to rely so much.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): King Charles III is talking about his wife Camilla Parker Bowles, the Queen Consort. She first met the future king when they were in their 20s, reportedly at a Polo match. Growing up in the English countryside Camilla had developed a passion for horses. It was the early 1970s and Charles had joined the Royal Navy. In his absence, Camilla married cavalry officer Andrew Parker Bowles. The couple had two children.
In 1981, Charles married Diana Spencer, but years later admitted he'd been having an affair. Both couples divorced and Camilla was vilified by the public. After Diana's death in 1997, the royal family tried to help Camilla's image, including carefully orchestrated appearances with Charles.
In 2005, Charles and Camilla were married in a civil ceremony at Windsor Guildhall. Later that year, despite her fear of flying, Camilla made her first official visit to the United States as the Duchess of Cornwall. Over their 17-year marriage, Camilla has emerged as Charles's greatest confidant and love of his life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They love each other. She is a source of great support and comfort and love. They share the same sense of humor. They just blend together beautifully.
KAYE: Charles and Camilla I have traveled the world together and are often seen joking and laughing.
KING CHARLES III: As always loves somebody, you know, you feel understands and wants to encourage and certainly poke, fun if I get too serious (INAUDIBLE)
KAYE: As a royal, Camilla has championed causes such as children's literacy and raising awareness about osteoporosis. A disease that affected both her mother and grandmother. She's also worked to support victims of domestic violence
CAMILLA, QUEEN CONSORT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: Swat over these very brave ladies, tell me it's seeing is believing, hearing is believing.
KAYE: At her Jubilee in February this year, the Queen cemented Camilla's future announcing when Charles becomes king, Camilla will be known as Queen Consort as she continues her own loyal service. This summer Camilla marked her 75th birthday by guest editing the July issue of the British magazine Country Life. She chose Kate, the Duchess of Cornwall to take her cover photo.
CAMILLA: It was all very casual, you know, there was much hair and makeup.
KAYE: And now is Camilla steps into her most important role as Queen Consort, many are thrilled she's taken her place in history.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is so right for Charles. She's so right and she's loved around here.
KAYE: Randi Kaye, CNN.
ANDERSON: Well, I'm Becky Anderson outside Buckingham Palace for you. My colleague John Vause picks up after the break with the latest on the war in Ukraine. Coming up. An exclusive report. Watch as a CNN crew comes under fire as Ukraine fights to hold on to liberated -- newly liberated territory that is after this.
VAUSE: Welcome back, everyone. I'm John Vause. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. A sweeping counter-offensive rolls on in eastern Ukraine as the Russian military retreats and Ukrainian forces push on past the Kharkiv region, claiming to have taken territory deep inside the Donetsk area. Images released by the Ukrainians show what appears to be evidence of a hasty, disorganized retreat with abandoned military equipment left outside what appears to be a monastery or church.
For weeks, Ukraine hinted about a counter offensive in the south, but appears the Russians may have been duped by a bait and switch with a major push in the Northeast. Here's the Ukrainian president speaking on Monday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Since the start of September, our soldiers have already liberated 6000 square kilometers of Ukrainian territory in the east and south and we are moving further.
(END VIDEO CLIP) VAUSE: Ukraine grains have been so significant even the Russians had
to own their losses, as well as what was a major retreat. CNN's Melissa Bell and her crew gained access to nearly liberated areas in the northeast and report the battle in part is ongoing. She filed this exclusive report and a warning parts of her reporting are graphic.
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The tanks spoke to a hasty Russian retreat, as Ukrainian forces swept eastwards over the weekend. Triumphantly raising the flag over Kupiansk on Saturday. Local police forces providing CNN with exclusive access to a key town now meant to be under Ukrainian control.
We still feel uneasy because we've been bombed for four days in a row, says Vasil (ph) and nothing certain yet.
Which only became clearer as we headed further in to Kupiansk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Aircrafts, helicopters (INAUDIBLE)
BELL: A first artillery strike too close for comfort. Then a second much closer.
BELL (on camera): That was the sound of artillery landing just next to our car or on the car. We have come into Kupiansk scooping to get to that flag to see where it had been trotted over yesterday. But as you can see, this Sunday afternoon is still the scene of some pretty fierce fighting, hearing the sound about going artillery fire. That was the sound of incoming.
BELL (voice over): The policeman tells us our car was deliberately targeted. Time for us to head back to those parts of Kharkiv region now fully under Ukrainian control after six long months.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Generally as people are happy. They feeding soldiers, they cheering, they -- they're celebrating. Feel great. Feel like redemption. Yes. Now eager to advance.
BELL: But in villages like (INAUDIBLE) Ukrainian investigators know all too well where they'll find offshore Bucha and Borodianka that were under Russian control for only a month.
Yes, according to our information. We are recording war crimes in almost every village, he says.
This, the body of one of two civilians killed in late February. An early victim of the invasion and evidence now of what six months of Russian occupation have cost.
Melissa Bell, CNN, Kharkiv region.
VAUSE: Hello there. I spoke with CNN military analyst and retired U.S. Air Force, Colonel Cedric Leighton about the Ukrainian counteroffensive. Asked him about Ukraine's next move, do they hunker down, consolidate their gains or push on?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Winter is coming, you know, their calendar can't be altered. And even with, you know, warmer temperatures on average, it's still going to get pretty cold in Ukraine and especially that part of Ukraine that is being contested right now. So the Ukrainians have to really decide whether or not they have the logistical wherewithal to get into the areas that the Russians have occupied.
And if they think they can remove them, they probably should do so fairly quickly. They really can't lose the momentum that they have right now. Momentum has a kind of a force have its own especially in military operations.
LEIGHTON: And if they continue to do this, they need to be able to at least get to a point where they have achieved defensible lines. Usually a river or, you know, some kind of other natural barrier can be a helpful demarcation line. And that is something that they should work toward. That gives them some kind of tactical and strategic advantage. That's, I think, what they should be doing next.
VAUSE: And the Russians right now trying to spin all of this is some kind of strategic and orderly withdrawal in the face of overwhelming numbers. If it was so orderly, so well planned, and why did the Russians leave behind so much weaponry? It looks as though Russia is now Ukraine's biggest weapon supplier.
LEIGHTON: Yes, exactly. This was an orderly, this wasn't preplanned, John, this was something that caught the Russians by surprise. In fact, they were caught so by surprise that many of the troops fled in civilian clothes, they stole bicycles to get out of town and make a beeline to the Russian border. So, this is indicative of, you know, many of the things that the Russians have told their own soldiers and their own people, in essence, they defend them lies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Colonel Leighton there. Let's go to London now. CNN's Clare Sebastian following events in Ukraine. So, you know, there has been this very public criticism of this, you know, significant defeat on the battlefield, coming from inside Russia, and from elected officials. And by this point, six months into the world more, Putin has silenced or jailed most of its critics. So, to have even any criticism seems to carry a lot of significance.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely. John, this is noteworthy in a climate where even calling the war a war can frankly land you in prison. And where, as you say, we've seen no public protests of any significant scale since the first few weeks of the war, tight control over public opinion in Russia is a key pillar, frankly, of this conflict for Russia. And that is why it's significant that we've seen deputies, lawmakers from 18 municipal districts in Russia come forward and sign a petition essentially calling for Putin's ouster.
This is what they say in their petition. They say, we the municipal deputies of Russia believe that the actions of President Vladimir Putin are detrimental to Russia and its citizen's future. We demand Vladimir Putin's resignation from the post of President of the Russian Federation. Now, look, these are not top lawmakers in Moscow. These are sort of local lawmakers. But still a very brave move and particularly brave because we know that lawmakers from the St. Petersburg district last week called for treason charges against Putin.
And now according to a Twitter post from one of them, they are themselves facing charges for discrediting the army. We're also seeing John on state television debate around the validity of this war one Moscow lawmaker questioning whether Putin was given the right information and whether they should actually now move to peace talks because the strategy isn't working. I think in context, this is clearly not yet a sort of wholesale collapse of the propaganda machine.
We're not looking, you know, sort of down the barrel of some kind of coup. Russia still has very tight control over information in the country. But it's significant, because clearly, they didn't bargain for this on the battlefield. And they are now having to reckon with the potential impact on as I say that pillar of the war, the tight control of public opinion.
VAUSE: Clare, thank you. I just want very clearly, was this as simple as the Ukrainians publicly talking about a counteroffensive in the south and then the Russians falling for it?
SEBASTIAN: I mean, I think what happened was the Ukrainians are also conducting a counteroffensive in the south, but they spotted an opening up in the Northeast where Russia had sort of drawn some of their troop movements away. And it seems to have gone extremely quickly there. I think that was a key part of this, John, that they controlled. The Ukrainians control the information around this counteroffensive very tightly indeed.
And that did lead to the outcome that we're seeing now. But the key thing is that they do have to hold on to these gains. Don't forget Russia is already carrying out airstrikes in some of those areas.
VAUSE: Making the gains one thing, holding them is a completely different story. Clare, thank you. Clare Sebastian live for us in London.
The short note, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy has paid his respects to the queen on Monday. Signing a condolence book at the British ambassador's residence in Kyiv. He left a note inside that book, laid flowers at the residence.
And our coverage of the new royal era continues in just a moment with my colleague Becky Anderson at Buckingham Palace in London. When we come back, beyond the United Kingdom. Countries of the Commonwealth are debating whether to keep the British monarch as head of state. Now New Zealand's prime minister weighing in on her country's future.
ANDERSON: Welcome back. I'm Becky Anderson outside Buckingham Palace in London where the time is just before half past 7:00 in the morning with continuing coverage of the death of Queen Elizabeth II.
Well, even before her death, there were rumblings in the Commonwealth that once she was gone more countries may start peeling away from the British monarchy. But New Zealand at this point is not one of them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACINDA ARDEN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: I do believe that is where New Zealand will head in time. I believe it's likely to occur in my lifetime. But I don't see it as a short-term measure or anything that is -- that is on the agenda anytime soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Prime Minister Jacinda Arden made her respect and admiration for Queen Elizabeth clear. She says New Zealand will observe a public holiday on September the 26th. New Zealand is one of 14 former British colonies where the British monarch remains head of state.
Well, joining me now from New Zealand is the country's former prime minister, Helen Clark. It's good to have you.
You met Queen Elizabeth a number of times during your time in government. Just reflect on some of those times for us if you will.
HELEN CLARK, FORMER NEW ZEALAND PRIME MINISTER: Yes, I hosted her majesty, the queen, in 2002 IN New Zealand, that was her tenth visit and the last one when she came. I last had a proper meeting with her after the wonderful service she hosted at St. George's Chapel at Windsor when Edmund Hillary's Garter for the Order of the Garter was returned and my husband and I had lunch with the queen at the castle after that. But there were a number of occasions like that over my nine years as prime minister and earlier when I was a deputy prime minister as well.
ANDERSON: Can we discuss these comments from -- just in the ardent today. She sees New Zealand eventually moving away from the Commonwealth, which we should note is a ceremonial roll across the globe. But doesn't see any urgency for it. She also said, it is a time for reflection. But it's a mixed legacy, isn't? Particularly amongst indigenous peoples. Can you explain the complexity of this relationship?
CLARK: For New Zealand, the complexity lies in the fact that the foundation document of modern New Zealand is seen as the Treaty of Waitangi which was entered into between Queen Victoria's representative and Maori chiefs throughout New Zealand in 1840.
So, indigenous people while having many well justified grievances from the time of colonization, also were very respectful of this historic relationship with the British monarchy. And, of course, Queen Elizabeth a direct descendant of Queen Victoria had a special place in that and was always treated with great ceremony and protocol by Maoridom when she came to New Zealand.
Now, complexity for New Zealand worked to embark down the path of reconsidering its status as a constitutional monarchy, would be how to incorporate that founding document into a constitution. That's not a simple discussion and not one that we had in a hurry.
ANDERSON: You could argue that one of the queen's successes over her reign was making republicanism redundant as a political issue in the U.K., at least. That's clearly not the case elsewhere across the Commonwealth. How strongly do people feel? Do they feel strongly enough to break with the monarchy at some point or is this something that is just as easily kept on the backburner?
CLARK: Actually, something that is rather easily kept on the backburner. Because to all intents and purposes, the New Zealand has a representative of the queen, the governor general who performs all of the tasks associated with a constitutional monarch's representative.
Now, on average, about once every five years, the queen came to New Zealand, perhaps on average King Charles will come at that kind of interval. But otherwise, New Zealanders get on with their lives. Let me say, there was great respect for the queen regardless of whether people were pro-republic or pro-monarchy. But at this time, I don't see much political appetite for raising the issues of constitutional status.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. King Charles III will now be leading this role, of course. You've met and worked with him. How do you expect him to conduct himself? Do you see him treating this role very differently than his mother did?
CLARK: He is a different personality and he's taken up a different set of issues. I personally admire the fact that now King Charles as Prince of Wales took up issues of sustainability and climate action and biodiversity. And I think that will play quite well in New Zealand. I think when he makes his tour and hopefully there will be a coronation tour around the Commonwealth, particularly where he is the formal head of state.
I think that people would look to hear reassurance from him about his concern for those issues. So, he will be different. But I think that he will also be seen like the queen to behaving above politics and trying to bring people together around good causes in the public interest.
ANDERSON: It is good to have you, thank you very much indeed for joining us. The former prime minister of New Zealand, Helen Clark. CLARK: Thank you.
ANDERSON: Well, King Charles and the Queen Consort will soon leave Edinburgh for Northern Ireland. They'll meet with government leaders there, attend a prayer service, and possibly greet well wishes. As Nic Robertson reports, many in Belfast are remembering the queen for helping the region heal after some of its darkest days.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voiceover): In Belfast, tributes to the late Queen Elizabeth pile up. Flowers laid under a mural of the much-loved monarch. Notes of condolences, thank her for her service. But this is a pro-British neighborhood. And like many things in Northern Ireland, how you view the monarchy depends largely on whether you are a pro-British unionist, most often protestant, or a pro-Irish nationalist, mostly catholic.
For almost half of Queen Elizabeth's 70-year reign, the two sides, loyalists and republican, fought over their competing views, more than 3,000 people were killed. When it came to peace, almost 25 years ago, it was the queen who would later help heal some of the divisions by reaching out to anti-British, pro-Irish former paramilitaries turned politicians.
Now, it's Charles' turn. He inherits a politically broken Northern Ireland. Its power sharing government paralyzed by pro-British politicians who refused to join a government with a pro-Irish Sinn Feign, who, for the first time in Northern Ireland's 100-year history, won more seats than any other party during an election in May. Charles's own history with Sinn Fein hit a low point in 1979 after the murder of his mentor, his father's uncle, Lord Louis Mountbatten by the groups paramilitary ring, the IRA.
But Sinn Fein has long since renounced violence. And after its election win is already pushing for a vote to help unite Ireland. But, despite their differences with the monarchy, its leaders offered words of praise for the late queen after her passing.
MICHEL O'NEILL, VICE PRESIDENT, SINN FEIN: I think that both Martin McGuinness and Queen Elizabeth herself played a very significant role in terms of sending a strong message that we are appealing to those people our -- between our two islands, between the people who live on this island.
ROBERTSON (voiceover): A similar message of respect and gratitude from pro-British unionists.
JEFFREY DONALDSON, DEMOCRATIC UNIONIST PARTY LEADER: Her majesty lead by example in Northern Ireland. And reached out of the hand of friendship to help with the reconciliation process. We are duty bound to build on those foundations.
ROBERTSON (voiceover): But Brexit is reviving old tensions, pro- British unionists fear it's led to increasing isolation from mainland U.K. and blame the E.U. To put pressure on the U.K. government to get a better deal from the E.U., they're refusing to join Northern Ireland's power sharing government, leaving schools, hospitals, road repairs, municipal officers and much else in limbo. It's yet another testing time in Northern Ireland. Though violence is not imminent, and would be highly unlikely to reach the scale of the past.
KING CHARLES III, KING OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: My lords and members of the House of Commons.
ROBERTSON (voiceover): But as King Charles, the new symbol of British rule steps into his mother's role, there can be only hope he helps soothe frayed relations as his mother once did. Nic Robertson, CNN, Belfast, Northern Ireland.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: I'm Becky Anderson, outside Buckingham Palace in London. John Vause picks up our coverage of the day's other news right after this short break, including a look at dozens of new subpoenas for allies of Donald Trump in the January 6th investigation. Stay with us for that.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: It's just gone 43 minutes past the hour. Welcome back. There appears to be agreement on a special master to review materials seized by the FBI during a search of Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago.
The Justice Department says it's open to appointing former Federal Judge Raymond Dearie, who was chosen by team Trump. He served for 25 years after being appointed to the bench by Ronald Reagan. Trump's attorneys rejected both candidates put forward by the DOJ.
Meantime, the federal investigation into January 6th appears to be escalating and quickly. Dozens of mostly middle staffers and a few big names as well from the Trump White House and Trump campaign have been subpoenaed by federal investigators. CNN's Sara Murray has details.
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: CNN is learning from sources that the Justice Department has subpoenaed more than 30 people in former President Donald Trump's orbit as part of its investigation into efforts to subvert the results of the 2020 election.
Now, these include a number of big names, people like Bill Stepien, who was the former Trump campaign director. People like Dan Scavino, Trump's former deputy chief of staff. And Brian Jack, a former White House political directly.
Now, this appears to be an effort by the Justice Department to sort of suck up and gather as much information as possible while it's on the cusp of this quiet period that it tries to not take any overt investigative actions that could be seen as influencing the outcome or the potential outcome of an election. And we know from talking to sources about these subpoenas, they're very broad. Some of them are seeking information related to the fake elector's plot. Some seeking formation relatedly Save America PAC, a political and fundraising vehicle for the former president. Others are asking for any documents people may have handed over to the January 6th Select Committee.
Some are seeking just documents. Some are seeking documents and testimony. So, this is a wide and aggressive effort by the Justice Department and an indication that that investigation is intensifying. Sara Murray, CNN, Washington.
VAUSE: From Sierra Madre, California and David Siders is a national political correspondent with Politico. Welcome back to the show.
DAVID SIDERS, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: Thanks for having me.
VAUSE: OK. So, the subpoenas, they focus on the Save America PAC it seems, which was formed after the 2020 election. So, far it's raised more than $100 million. They spent just shy of $36 million. All that money came from Trump supporters who thought they were donating to a fund to legally challenge the election results.
The January 6th Committee has essentially labored that scam. This seems to be another significant new area of an already sprawling investigation. So, how significant is this? Where does the Save America PAC get into the wider picture of alleged wrongdoing?
SIDERS: Well, I think you're right that it's significant because it's a new turn in the investigation, right? So, it's broadening the scope of what we're looking at. And as you've point out with those figures, this is not some, you know, normal pact, this is a juggernaut in American politics. And really a major vehicle for small dollar fundraising on the Republican side. So, I do think that it's significant because of that.
VAUSE: And the premise here was they were donating to a legal fund which would ultimately help Donald Trump challenged the 2020 results and be what, return to the presidency, is that the basis of it?
SIDERS: That's right. And the idea is that, you know, that at least the claims, the allegations from people on the January 6th Committee is that this is some kind of, you know, misleading of donors. That this money was not necessarily used for those purposes.
I think politically, I am not sure any of that ends up being what resonates here. I think that it is more of this drip, drip on Trump, where really you see this, you know, this problem for him coming from all sides. And that, I think, is politically what maybe the most significant thing about that.
VAUSE: Maggie Habberman, "New York Times" has published a new book on Trump. And she reveals this one detail, which has been big. I'm just not going to leave Trump told 1A. We're never leaving, he said to another. How can you leave when you've won an election? This is all around the time of the January 6th. And that brought this reaction from Republican and well-known Trump critic Liz Cheney. Here she is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIZ CHENEY, U.S. HOUSE REPUBLICAN: When you hear something like that, I think you have to recognize that we were in no man's land. And territory we'd never been in before as a nation. I think again, it just affirms the reality of the danger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: So, it's affirming to Cheney of the danger about Trump's discrimination to hold on power, but does that revelation actually change anything here and now?
SIDERS: Yes, I mean, I think it's significant. And we shouldn't downplay the significance just because we won't see a drop off in support for Trump because of that tape. I mean, not tape. The reporting. How many times have we had some reporting on the president, dating all the way back to the Access Hollywood Tape where you would say, that's stunning. There's no precedent for that. This will change the course of things, and then of course it didn't.
But I do think -- and I mentioned earlier this drip. I do think there is some weariness among Republicans where rank and file voters -- and this is the reason you see somebody like DeSantis rising in primary polls. It's not because they disagree with the former president, or they wouldn't rally around him as they did clearly after the search of his Mar-a-Lago estate. But it's -- that there is some weariness about talking about 2020 and desire to push forward with something more affirmative for their case then relitigating a past election.
VAUSE: Some Republicans have told me that DeSantis is like Trump without the drama which is his appeal there. And speaking of drama, later on Tuesday, we've been told the January 6th Committee is set to meet as it considers whether to invite Trump and Pence, his former vice president, to appear. It seems incredibly unlikely either will do so voluntarily. Can they be compelled to attend?
SIDERS: I think you're right that it's unlikely that we'll actually see them appear. But I do think there is -- you know, the important thing may be just extending the invitation. Although, we should say, you know, my colleagues and I think other outlets too, have reported that ongoing discussions with Mike Pence. And so, I don't think that's entirely off the table. I think hearing from Trump publicly is.
VAUSE: OK. David, as always, thank you so much for being with us. Appreciate it.
SIDERS: Thank you.
VAUSE: Still to come here on CNN, a big night for the stars of the small screen. We got some fresh faces making history at the 74th Emmy awards. All of the highlights when we come back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Jeff Bezos and his private spaceflight company, Blue Origin, have suffered their first major setback with a failed launch on Monday. Just over a minute after liftoff, the new ship -- rocket appeared to burst into flames. The official word is that there was a mishap which triggered a system allowing the capsule -- the unmanned capsule to separate and parachute back to Earth. The rocket was carrying 36 pay loads, 18 belong to NASA. According to Blue Origin, the booster crashed back to the ground with no reports of entry.
There are breathtaking new images, a never before seen look at how stars and planets are born. These images were taken by the James Webb Space Telescope. They show the Orion nebula, about 1,300 lightyears away from planet Earth.
Before now, this was the only time of which we had the nebula, it was taken by the Hubble Telescope which is not able to see three layers of stardust. But, using infrared light, the Webb Telescope can peer through those lasers of -- layers of dust, revealing intricate details into the heart of the nebula. We have also picked up what scientists are calling a bonus image of the Orion Nebula. If you look closely, you can see a frog-like structure, giant intergalactic space frog.
The 74th Emmys were aired on Monday, they were a day late because of the American football. They showed -- they featured rather historic wins and some notable firsts. "Squid Game's" actor, Le Jung-jae, became the first South Korean performer to win outstanding lead actor in a drama series.
The show was also the first non-english series to get a nomination in the category. And Sheryl Lee Ralph took home the award for supporting actress in a comedy for her role in "Abbott Elementary". She's only the second black woman to win the award, 35 years after Jackee Harry.
Thank you for watching. I'm John Vause. Please stay with us. Becky Anderson and Rosemary Church will pick up after the break with a lot more on CNN Newsroom. See you tomorrow.