Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Florida Braces For Tropical Storm Ian; Lavrov Accuses The West Of Trying To Destroy Russia In U.N. Speech; Fact-Checking GOP's Open Border Narrative; Nearly 100-Day Streak Of Falling Gas Prices Ends; Dozens Killed, 1,250 Arrested In Iran In Protests After Mahsa Amini's Death While In "Morality Police" Custody; Biden Surprises Elton John with National Humanities Medal. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired September 24, 2022 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Arby's straw to compare to the DNA on the letters and it was a -- it was a one-to-one match. It was a one hundred percent match.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Rogers was arrested in an early morning FBI raid at his home last November.

AMY POMERANTZ, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: We decided to arrest him, because we weren't -- we weren't sure what he was going to do.

CASAREZ (voice over): Rogers pleaded guilty to Federal crimes ranging from stalking to mailing threatening communications and was sentenced to 40 months in prison.

EVA LARUE, ACTRESS: This happened from the time my daughter was five years old. This happened during her formative years.

KAYA MCKENNA CALLAHAN, EVA LARUE'S DAUGHTER: I feel okay now.

LARUE: So, we know where he is for the next three years, we know we're safe for the next three years.

CALLAHAN: Yes. I feel okay. So, that's nice to feel.

CASAREZ (voice over): Jean Casarez, CNN, Los Angeles.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: What a story.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.

[18:00:49]

I'm Pamela Brown in Washington and here are the top stories for you this hour.

Florida's Governor just declared a State of Emergency, as Floridians brace for a potentially powerful midweek hurricane.

Plus, Fiona packed a punch across far eastern Canada overnight, homes destroyed, whole communities still flooded out this hour.

And it's the question we keep asking: Is a recession inevitable? Well, new data is fueling new fears.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

As night falls in coastal Canada, it is clear many residents will be spending it in total darkness. Hundreds of thousands are without power after hurricane-force winds from Fiona swept through the region earlier today, and although it's been downgraded to a post tropical cyclone, it has been one of the strongest storms on record to hit Canada's Atlantic coast.

The storm surge swamped Rustico Beach on Prince Edward Island and police in Charlottetown tweeted photos of destruction there saying conditions that they have never seen before.

But even as Fiona fizzles, Tropical Storm Ian is raising alarms throughout the Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico.

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis declared a State of Emergency with Ian predicting to hit the State as a Category 4 Hurricane next week.

So let's go now to CNN Weather Center where we find CNN's Britley Ritz tracking Ian. No rest for the weary here, Britley. What's the latest?

BRITLEY RITZ, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, the very latest from the National Hurricane Center has now found a center just north of the original center earlier today, which helps us determine where landfall might be, but there are still a lot of uncertainty with that.

We do have quite a bit of convection with it, that's expected to increase as it moves through the Caribbean and right up into the Gulf of Mexico. Right now, sustained winds, max throughout the center, 45 miles per hour as it takes its turn west at 16 miles per hour.

The latest count shows a Category 3 moving over Cuba late Monday, but now a Category 4 Storm forecast as it moves into the warmer waters of the Gulf of Mexico then taking its turn eastward, downgraded to a Category 2 just before landfall, but still a very strong storm.

Now, the latest count from the National Hurricane Center pulls Key West just outside of it, but that can still change. Notice how wide the cone is -- from Panama City, just down into Fort Myers. We still have no real idea where this storm is going to go.

But keep this in mind. We had yesterday's models closer to the West Coast. However, today, it's now pushed farther west, that's 150 miles compared to what we dealt with.

So, we have two models, the Euro and the American model. These both play a big factor in what is going to happen. We've got the American model on the Panhandle, and then we also have the European model on the West Coast. Now we do have heavier rain, and that's one of the bigger threats.

So Pamela, we could be talking about nearly a foot of rain if the Euro model holds.

BROWN: All right, and Britley, just help us understand, can you explain what is influencing the strength of the storm right now?

RITZ: Yes, absolutely.

And we talked about that, just briefly, the warmer waters. Now, we do have above normal temperatures here, mid to upper 80s, especially as it moves on to the West Coast of Florida and that of course intensifies that storm, and the longer it sits there with that digging trough, as it pushes further south, it will start to intensify more so and that's when we get that potential of a Category 4 Storm.

BROWN: All right, Britley Ritz, thanks so much.

And let's now turn to South Florida and the strike zone for Ian, a Tropical Storm now predicted to become a major hurricane over the next several days as we just heard there.

Even though Ian is predicted to hit the West Coast of Florida, Governor Ron DeSantis has declared a State of Emergency throughout Florida.

Joining us now is the Mayor of Miami-Dade County Daniella Levine Cava. Welcome Mayor. I know how busy you have been preparing. Just tell us a little bit, how is your city preparing right now?

[18:05:05]

MAYOR DANIELLA LEVINE CAVA, MIAMI-DADE COUNTY, FLORIDA: Well, thank you so very much.

We are monitoring closely, as of now we're outside of the cone of uncertainty, but we can't relax. We know that there's always a possibility it will shift. The storm has continued to move westward, as you've stated, and this is really the time that everyone should make sure they have a plan.

We have everything on our website, miamidade.gov/hurricane and we want everyone to ensure that their emergency equipment, their hurricane shutters, their battery-operated radios, battery-powered and -- that they're all in good working order and that sufficient emergency supplies are on hand, seven days of perishable food, enough water, fill it up from the tap and confirm that you have all the necessary materials to secure your home.

And by the way, this is not a good time to start cutting your trees because we won't be able to pick them up in time. So, please be very careful. Any loose trimmings, take it to your local trash and recycling center and do not remove manhole covers. Last major rain event that happened, not a good plan. And everyone can check their storm surge by using the Storm Surge Planning Zone Finder on our website.

So, everything is on our emergency evacuation site, and if you need help evacuating, we want you to register. So please, everyone, this is the time to prepare, but be calm. No need for panic.

BROWN: Yes, important notes there for sure. You talked about flooding. Your city knows a thing or two about flooding and it is in large part it happens because of its geography, right? It's also king tide season when higher than normal tides are common. What kind of damage are you worried about, potentially?

CAVA: Yes, so we've actually checked the tide schedules and we think it would be favorable to us late Tuesday early Wednesday, where we're not experiencing king tides as I've understood it by now. So, we're very hopeful that even with a major rain event, we'll be able to manage it.

But we're, again, on standby. We have extra pumps. And we've worked with the South Florida Water Management District to make sure to lower canal levels as well.

BROWN: Are you expecting a lot of influx of people from the Florida Keys trying to escape the storm?

CAVA: Certainly, if the Keys evacuate, yes, many will come to us. If necessary, we do have an extensive shelter system including for the Keys' residents. Normally, they would evacuate tourists before they would evacuate residents. So, standing by for more news tomorrow, and we'll continue our preparations.

BROWN: Let's take a look back at 2017 when Hurricane Irma hit. I know you remember that well. There were 14 known nursing home deaths due to power failures and the lack of air conditioning. But one study said hundreds more deaths could have been related to the storm.

Are you working to relocate some of these fragile, more vulnerable residents to safer shelter in case the power is out for a lengthy period of time.

CAVA: We have communicated with our 13 County Commissioners and asked them to reach out to any vulnerable residents in their area. Again, we urge everyone to contact us if they are going to be in need of emergency evacuation. We have the means to assist. The best is to register with us ahead of time.

BROWN: And one quick question for you, before we let you go, we need to note that you were also Mayor during that horrific collapse of the condo in Surfside last year. Do you have any concerns about the stability of ocean front high rises if Ian develops into a powerful storm.

CAVA: That really was a very unusual situation. We don't have all the causes clearly laid out, but we know that buildings are being inspected on a regular basis. All of the cities, as well as county for the unincorporated have been very diligent in making sure that the 40- year certification is proceeding effectively, and I don't think anyone needs to be concerned that this storm will pose a danger to their large buildings.

BROWN: All right, Miami-Dade Mayor Daniella Levine Cava, best of luck. Thank you.

CAVA: Thank you.

BROWN: And you are in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Saturday night. Still ahead for you this hour, Russian President Vladimir Putin plays the long game in Ukraine, mobilizing thousands of men for possible fresh deployments. But will anti-war sentiment in his country affect that strategy?

In tonight's debate, what is being done to stem the tide of illegal immigration at the US-Mexico border and what more could be done? Scott Jennings and Maria Cardona take sides.

Plus, a simple engraved stone now lies over Queen Elizabeth's final resting place.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:14:09]

BROWN: Vladimir Putin's plan to call up 300,000 troops is being met with fierce resistance in parts of Russia. A monitoring group says that nearly 1,500 protesters have been arrested in the past three days and the new conscripts are already been handed military weapons. It's being called a partial mobilization of reservists with military experience. But some Russians who've been summoned say they've never served before.

And while all of this is unfolding, Russia's Foreign Minister traveled to New York to address the UN General Assembly. He lashed out at the US and its allies over sanctions imposed on his country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): ... by the United States and our allies do not give them freedom of choice to anyone. They threaten, they twist the arms of anyone who dares think for themselves and demand by threats that countries join in with anti- Russian sanctions.

But it is very clear that these acts by United States and its satellites is not democracy. It's pure, unadulterated dictatorship on attempts to impose it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:15:21]

BROWN: For more, I want to bring in CNN military analyst, retired Air Force, Colonel Cedric Leighton, and former US Ambassador to NATO, Kurt Volker.

All right, so Colonel Leighton, I'm going to start with you on the heels of what we heard from Sergey Lavrov, did it seem to you that he is trying to reframe this war as an existential threat to Russia?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, what's interesting about this, Pamela is that he is taking the exact position that Ukraine is in in real life, and seeming to make Russia be the victim here.

Russia is not the victim. We have to remember Russia as the aggressor, as you said earlier and these are the kinds of things that the Russians are masters at. They will take a situation and they will try to change the words, try to make it seem something that it isn't, and in this particular case, what Foreign Minister Lavrov is doing is he is putting himself in the victims' shoes even though he is not the victim, he is the perpetrator.

BROWN: He is the perpetrator.

All right, so Kurt, just a few days after Putin announced partial mobilization, almost 1,500 protesters, as we had just mentioned, they had been arrested, and the border is just flooded with citizens trying to get out.

You see, you know, Finland, other countries just flooded with people who want to escape this. What do you think? Because Putin made a big mistake here?

KURT VOLKER, FORMER US AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Well, clearly, he has made a big mistake, because he has destroyed half of his military capability, he has sunk his economy, people are unable to travel, unable to use their credit cards, unable to conduct financial transactions. So, this is a big mistake for Russia and his forces are losing on the ground and that is very clear.

The mobilization is a desperate move because he doesn't have the trained capable forces to throw at the conflict in Ukraine. The people that are mobilizing now, these are not like reservists in the US. These are older, these are out of shape, these are not committed to the military mission. And as you see, there are massive protests now in Russia as a result of this.

So, this is nothing that we should be concerned about, it is rather something that indicates that Putin has a lot to be concerned about.

BROWN: But Kurt, do you think that some of these countries should take in these people fleeing conscription? What do you think?

VOLKER: Yes, it's a mixed bag. It's a mixed bag, because you really need to do some vetting. Who are these people? Are they coming as refugees from a Putin regime? And will they be contributors to, you know, the society where they're temporarily located? Do they oppose Putin? Are they Russian nationalist and hardcore, and they're just trying to keep their lives, you know, more comfortable?

I think a little bit of vetting needs to go on here. And I also think that one of the things we've heard from the Baltic States -- Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania -- I completely agree with is that these people are so shielded in an information bubble by the Russian regime. They don't know what's actually happening.

So, confronting these people as they do come in, or as they try to come in with the facts of what their country is doing is also incredibly important. BROWN: Yes, that's an interesting point.

So Colonel Leighton, we just heard Kurt there mention the fact that these people who are now being recruited by Russia or forced, I should say, to fight in this unprovoked war. I mean, these are people who are newly into this, right, new personnel. We're also hearing reports that there are some without any military experience at all that are just being handed weapons.

I mean, these are not highly trained fighters that are going to fight this war.

LEIGHTON: No, they're not, Pamela. For the most part to end, while there might be some that have had previous military experience, the vast majority appear to be people that they pulled off the street, kind of reminds you of the impressment gangs in the early 19th Century that the British used against the Americans in the run up to the War of 1812.

This is what's going on in Russia. They are taking people off the streets and they're giving them weapons, like you mentioned, and they're putting them in a really bad position. They're putting them in harm's way. Because if you don't know how to use a weapon, it becomes the most dangerous thing in the world for you personally, because you don't know how to use it, what the mechanisms are, how to avoid mistakes with it, how to aim it, how to do all those things that a military person would have to know in order to be effective in using it.

BROWN: It just shows you how desperate Putin is right now.

LEIGHTON: Absolutely.

BROWN: The fact that this is the length that he is going to, and Kurt, we know that there are four parts of Ukraine that are under Russian control, they are holding these snap "referendums" to join Russia. After that, the Kremlin we expect will likely claim these territories as its own just as last hour we learned that Ukraine requested an urgent meeting of the UN Security Council over this.

What kind of fallout can we expect to see? What are you worried about?

[18:20:10]

VOLKER: Well, so this is very interesting. It is again, yet another sign of Putin's desperation. He is rushing through these referenda when they are not prepared for it, in order to try to get a claim that these are Russian territory before the Ukrainians take it back.

So, this is a rushed effort. This is nothing that is very well-planned out.

It has no legitimacy whatsoever. These are conditions of occupation. We've seen what the Russians have done to the civilian population in areas that they occupied and were forced out of -- torture chambers, killing of civilians, mass executions, and so forth. So, we know the population is not going to be voting freely here.

Moreover, the claim that these are Russian territories after an aggressive takeover, and then a sham referendum is ridiculous and I don't think even people in Russia, even the Russian military, will believe that these are actually Russian territories.

So, when Putin threatens nuclear use, if he is defending the territorial integrity of Russia, I don't think anyone considers that these pieces of territory are actually Russia, and actually would justify any kind of nuclear use by Putin.

BROWN: Yeah, absolutely.

All right, Kurt Volker, Cedric Leighton, thanks for coming on to share your insight and expertise on this. We appreciate it.

VOLKER: Pleasure.

BROWN: Well, immigration is a tense issue facing the US and misleading information about what's happening at the border isn't helping efforts to fix the problem. Ahead, we separate facts from fiction.

Plus, Scott Jennings and Maria Cardona are here to debate, which party has the better message on immigration ahead of the midterms. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:26:14]

BROWN: Immigration has roared back into the headlines in recent weeks with Republican Governors bussing migrants to Democrat-led cities up north and GOP candidates railing against so-called open borders in the south.

But as Republicans try to make immigration a major issue ahead of the midterms, CNN's Daniel Dale reports their "border crisis," that narrative does not paint the full picture.

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: Pamela, some of the Republican campaign criticism has been misleading or lacking in critical context or just plain wrong.

One common Republican claim is that the US has a "open border" under Joe Biden. That is just not true. In right around half of the Biden era cases where the authorities have encountered a migrant at the Southern border, this migrant has been rapidly expelled from the country, sent away under the pandemic-era policy known as Title 42. Even the people who authorities encounter, but are not rapidly expelled still face Court proceedings that often result in eventual deportation.

Now of course, some migrants do evade detection and sneak into the country. Some others managed to stay despite deportation orders. Nonetheless, open border is inaccurate. Republicans also keep citing the large quantities of fentanyl being seized at the border, but fentanyl being seized is more proof the border is not actually open. And here's a critical point almost never mentioned in GOP talking points, the vast majority of the seizures happen at the legal ports of entry where cars and buses and trucks line up to enter. In the vast majority of the time, it is being brought in by US citizens or legal residents.

About 85 percent of the fentanyl seized at the Southwest border this fiscal year has been seized at legal ports, and the other 15 percent or so tends to be seized at Border Patrol checkpoints inside the US not from migrants walking across.

So, the image Republicans are trying to create is a migrant seeking through the desert with a sack of drugs, that happens in some tiny percentage of cases, but it is certainly not the predominant story.

Now, of course, none of this is to take a side on whether Joe Biden is doing good job or bad job on the border, on immigration policy, but as these issues get debated, it is important for people to have their facts straight -- Pamela.

BROWN: Exactly. And that's what we need to do, Daniel Dale.

All right, so both sides agree, right? The border needs help. So, are Republicans playing their hands correctly when it comes to the issue of immigration? That is the topic of tonight's NEWSROOM debate.

Joining us now is Democratic strategist, Maria Cardona; and Republican commentator, Scott Jennings.

Hello to you both. I've been looking forward to this discussion. Because you know, look, it spurs a lot of emotion, a lot of feelings and passion.

Scott, I know you have some strong opinions about this. So, let's get right to it. You have red state governors that are sending these migrants to Democratic cities up north. Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida says this is now a front-burner issue thanks to his efforts. But in using these people, including kids and families as political pawns, it's not really a good look for Republicans. Could it feed into a perception Republicans lack compassion and humanity, Scott?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think Republicans are doing just fine on this issue and the NBC News survey came out last weekend, they tested which party do you trust on a bunch of different issues? Immigration was one of the absolute best issues for Republicans, 46 percent trusted the Republicans; only 29 percent trusted the Democrats. That's a 17-point spread.

So, I think people instinctively know there is a problem. I think they also know they're being lied to by the Biden administration.

[18:29:56]

You've got the White House Press Secretary, the Vice President, even the President on a routine basis, telling Americans the border is secure, despite what we can all see happening with our own eyes. So I think what the governor's did in sending those migrants to sanctuary enclaves, blue enclaves, it brought the attention back to this story.

We weren't covering this story. Nobody was talking about the border. And as you pointed out, when we opened up this segment, now, it's one of the hottest topics in the election. That was the point. And the more that issue rises, I think the more Republicans are going to be in an advantage position on it vis-a-vis the November election.

BROWN: Maria?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I completely disagree. Look, I think that this issue is going to backfire on Republicans. And what they are doing now is showing their complete lack of humanity, their complete lack of understanding of what the immigration actually is and what are the root causes of it.

What they are demonstrating is a base instinct to demonstrate their anti-immigrant, anti-Latinos zealotry, because Ron DeSantis, Greg Abbott, Doug Ducey and the rest of the MAGA Republican governors saw how well this worked for Donald Trump in 2016. It is what enabled him to get the Republican nomination for president and they are doubling down on that tactic.

But let me tell you what happened in 2018 and in 2020, that same cruel, inhumane MAGA agenda was resoundingly rejected by the American people. And I believe it's going to be a resounding rejected again, because what they see from these governors is they are lying to these migrants, they are deceiving them, they are defrauding them. They have absolutely no interest in actually finding a solution. They are leaving women and children abandoned at the side of the road.

If these Republican governors really wanted a solution, Pam, they would actually focus on trying to coordinate. What they see is this big problem and wanted to do burden sharing. If they really did that, they would sit down with members of Congress, with other governors, with the White House and figure out how to actually come to a solution, which is, frankly, what the Biden administration has been offering from the moment he came into office.

BROWN: And I want to get back to you on some of the points you've made. But Scott, you had brought up the poll initially about how that respondents view Republicans' handling of the immigration that being stronger than Democrats. I want to throw another poll at you though. A Reuters/Ipsos poll found that a majority of respondents say migrants should not be shipped to blue states 40 percent to 29 percent. Polls and politics aside for a moment, would it not be smart Scott to have the governments of red and blue states just work together on this?

JENNINGS: Well, I think it would be smart if the federal government would do its job. I mean, I think all these governors and all these mayors and everybody who's dealing with this influx of illegal immigrants, they're the ones who are being hung out to dry by the lack of a federal responds.

CARDONA: They're not illegal.

BROWN: You say illegal immigrants, these are legal immigrants that are - that these governors are bussing and flying elsewhere. I just want to point that out, go ahead.

JENNINGS: Guys, we've had - guys, we've - ladies, we've had 4.4 million people crossed the border since Joe Biden became president, including 850,000, roughly, that have gotten away. This is an illegal immigration crisis. And I mean, that's how the American people see it. I don't think anybody is going to see it any differently.

CARDONA: You know what, Scott? I think you need to look at the facts and understand actual immigration law in this country. The migrants that your governors are using and abusing as pawns for their own political plays, are actually here legally and are availing themselves of processes that are available under American law and so that's number one.

Number two, you all keep saying that the border is open. We just had Daniel Dale underscored that that was absolutely not true. You complain about the millions of migrants that have been apprehended at the border, you can't have it both ways. If the border was open, they will not be apprehended. These folks, these migrants that you're complaining about that your governors are using and abusing are coming here through legal ports of entry. So if you are actually proposing that we need to close the legal ports of entry to close commerce to our second biggest trading partner, then I think you and your party's ignorance on immigration is bigger than we could all ever imagine.

BROWN: Scott?

JENNINGS: Well, I didn't expect to be insulted tonight, Maria, but I appreciate it very much. I ultimately think it's going to be a question of priorities, because what the Republicans are going to argue is, has the Biden administration done anything effective about this since they took office and what are they doing in terms of federal hiring, they've hired 87,000 IRS agents and other personnel. They've denigrated the Border Patrol. I think if you put it as a question of priorities, Biden wants more IRS personnel than border patrol.

[18:35:02]

I do think the American people would rally to the Republican side and I think that's an argument ...

CARDONA: I don't know, that's ...

JENNINGS: ... you're going to hear Republican campaigns make in October.

CARDONA: ... but that's wrong too.

BROWN: Really quick.

CARDONA: Yes. BROWN: Let me just - and that's - the IRS and I know that's a whole different thing. It's apples and oranges.

CARDONA: Yes, it makes no sense. It's wrong too.

BROWN: But - and listen, and Scott, not trying to gang up on you here, just focusing on the facts here, but I do want to ask you, Maria, look, you brought up that poll, Scott initially, and I think you made a fair point about how most of the respondents, the majority viewed Republicans stronger on this issue than Democrats. Perception is reality for people, right?

CARDONA: Mm-hm.

BROWN: Kamala Harris, the Vice President has been tapped to lead this effort. Should she go back? Should the President go back - go to the border? He hasn't been - he had to drive by the border back in 2008, I believe, according to the White House. I mean, he hasn't been back since. Should they show more to people that this is a top priority?

CARDONA: Look, what the administration has done is more than show, they've actually acted. You talk about Kamala Harris having been tasked to focus on these issues of the root causes of immigration. Right, Pam? Early on, she went to Central America to talk to her counterparts in Central and South America in Mexico, look what has happened. The Border Patrol and Department of Homeland Security just put out numbers that said immigration from Mexico and from Central America are at huge reduced numbers.

So clearly what she was doing, what this administration was doing was working. What has happened since?

JENNINGS: That is definitely false.

CARDONA: Venezuela, that the immigrants that are coming over now ...

BROWN: Okay.

JENNINGS: We're in (inaudible) ...

CARDONA: ... the majority of the immigrant ...

JENNINGS: We literally have a record crossing, we do not have (inaudible) ...

BROWN: Hold on, hold on, Scott.

CARDONA: The majority - yes, Scott, we do.

JENNINGS: Come on.

CARDONA: From Mexico - listen to what I'm saying ...

BROWN: We have reduced ...

CARDONA: ... from Mexico and Central America, the numbers are reduced. The people that are coming over here, Scott, people coming from Venezuela ...

BROWN: Okay.

CARDONA: ... Nicaragua and from Cuba, frankly, they're fleeing dictatorships. These should be the people that Republicans are welcoming with open arms.

BROWN: They're the asylum seekers. Okay. Very quickly, Scott, final word to you and then we have to wrap it up. It seems like you're going to like ...

JENNINGS: You know what, my final word is this, if Democrats would like to run a campaign saying the border is secure and there's no illegal immigration problem, I wholeheartedly endorse it. I think we ought to keep doing it.

CARDONA: That's not what I said.

BROWN: Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

JENNINGS: And I think you out to say it on TV every day.

BROWN: All right. All right. Scott Jennings, Maria Cardona, I knew it would be a fiery conversation on this Saturday night and you both delivered.

CARDONA: Thank you.

BROWN: It's an important topic.

CARDONA: Thanks, Pam.

BROWN: So we appreciate your insights. Thanks for the debate.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. Adding to jitters about a recession this week, stocks falling to the lowest level since November 2020. Is economist Justin Wolfers still optimistic about where we're headed? We're going to ask him up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:41:56]

BROWN: With just over six weeks before the midterm elections, the Dow dropped Friday to its lowest level since 2020 on fears that more rate hikes by the Fed could lead to a recession. Inflation is the top concern for voters right at this moment. Gas prices are down from the numbers you see here, but a 98-day streak of falling prices ended this week. And they're not nearly as low as President Biden led Americans to believe on Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Gas prices, I know I got criticized for going into the stockpile, right? Well guess what, gas prices are down $1.30 a gallon. And in 41 states plus the District of Columbia, the average gasoline price is less than $2.99.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Our fact checker Daniel Dale ran the numbers and the President's claim was false. The average price is around $3.70. No state has an average right now that's under $2.99. The White House did correct the official transcript after CNN reached out yesterday.

But turning now to the larger economic picture, Justin Wolfers is a Professor of Economics and Public Policy at the University of Michigan. Hi, Professor. Welcome. We love having you on because even when things seem so doom and gloom with the economy, you somehow find a positive twist to put on it. How do you feel today? Do you believe a recession is a matter of when not if? What's your thinking?

JUSTIN WOLFERS, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS & PUBLIC POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: Well, one obvious level a recession is a question of when, we haven't defeated recessions forever. But I do know over the last hundred years, we had 14 recessions. So in a typical year, there's a 14 percent chance of a recession. The odds might be a little bit higher right now, but maybe 20 percent over the next year, but nothing like these skyrocketing rates have a discussion about it.

And, Pam, can I just remind you and your viewers several times we've talked through the first half of this year and people like the U.S. economy's already in recession. They were complaining that was certain. They were dead wrong. Sometimes optimism is the right way forward.

BROWN: I agree. And you were dead right, Justin. We should know that.

WOLFERS: I like to even say that.

BROWN: And we should also note, though, that there's different ways of defining a recession, right? I mean, it's looking at GDP. It is waiting for the National Bureau of Economic Research, did I get that right, to declare that we're officially in a recession. What is keeping them from holding up a declaration? Because that is what the Biden administration has said it is looking for, something from them to say, yes, we're in a recession now.

WOLFERS: Well, they're not saying we're in a recession because we're not in a recession. The issue is the economy is growing, a recession is when the economy is shrinking. We have thousands of different data series that we can look at and many different ways of looking at it.

There's only one statistic that looked grim through the first half of 2022 and that was one measure of gross domestic product. But when you look at other measures that appears that in if the economy was growing.

[18:45:01]

The thing that's really on people's minds is we're worried about inflation. Now, inflation is when prices are rising, that's separate from the issue of are we in a recession. A recession is when the economy is shrinking. It's true prices are rising. It's not true that the economy is shrinking.

BROWN: But they're intertwined, right, because as you're seeing the Fed is trying to deal with the inflation. And as a result, that is the fear, right, that by dealing with that hiking price, hiking interest rates, it could lead us into a recession. But look at mortgage rates right now. I mean, they are jumping higher for the fifth week in a row after another rate from the Fed. The Fed raises this rate, as I've pointed out to fight the inflation. But if your mortgage is going up, and there is risk of a recession, is this the wrong approach? How do you see it, Justin?

WOLFERS: Well, I think it's just worth putting everything in perspective. So I agree there's a lot to be concerned about, but I don't want your viewers to think that everything is grim in the road ahead. The Fed just raised interest rates to 3.25 percent. It's said it might have to raise them as much as 4.5 percent.

Now, and I called my mom and I asked her what she thought about that and she remembered when they raised rates, well above 15 percent. She thought I was a bit soft for being worried about this. And look, the real - it is going to affect the extra money that families have got left after paying their mortgage. It is going to be harder to get a mortgage. That pain is real. But we should also know that the unemployment rate now is just about at a 50 year low. Most people who want jobs can get them.

So some parts are performing well. Some parts are performing poorly, and there's a trade-off between the two. And that's the linkage you were talking about, Pam.

BROWN: Yes. So what do you think people should do with their money right now?

WOLFERS: I think they should basically do what they've always been doing. Here's the really simple advice for your viewers, if you ever make an investment based on what some guy on CNN once said, you're probably making a mistake. So I'd go and look at - I talked to many, many economists and nearly every economist I know just puts their money in low cost index funds. It's relentlessly boring, but it's a really good way of making sure that you don't get fooled, and you don't get ripped off and I think that's a pretty great recipe for your viewers.

BROWN: Justin Wolfers, thank you so much. Always great to hear your perspective. Appreciate it.

WOLFERS: Great (inaudible), thank you.

BROWN: And you're in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Saturday.

Still ahead for you tonight, Queen Elizabeth's final resting place revealed in a new photo tonight. You'll see it up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:51:56] BROWN: In Iran, outrage is growing more than a week after the death of a 22-year-old woman, Mahsa Amini, arrested by the country's morality police, a notorious unit which enforces headscarf laws. Protesters set fire to the statue of a clergyman considered the ideological father of the Islamic Revolution and they shouted death to Khamenei, the Supreme Leader.

Video obtained by CNN from the pro-reform outlet IranWire shows mass defiance in Tehran and Iranian authorities claim many died of a heart attack. U.N. experts though pointed out to reports suggesting she was tortured. New pictures today show Molotov cocktails lobbed at police. A state-backed news agency says at least 1,200 people have been arrested and dozens are reportedly dead. But no one outside Iran's government can confirm the exact number.

Well, the world got its first glimpse of Queen Elizabeth's final resting place today. Buckingham Palace released this photo of an engraved ledger stone featuring the name of the late monarch along with her parents and her husband Prince Philip. The four Royals were members of the Order of the Garter, the most senior order of chivalry that dates back to medieval times. The Queen was buried within St. George's Chapel in Windsor on Monday.

Well, last night, a break from politics as the South Lawn of the White House hosted a rock concert. Music icon and Rocket Man Elton John performed a number of hit songs, getting standing ovations from the star studded audience. And President Biden even got emotional during John's performance of Crocodile Rock. That was a song with special meaning for him. Biden used to sing it to his kids while driving them to school and then later to connect with his son Beau as he was dying of brain cancer and unable to communicate.

But it was - then, it was this moment you see when President Biden came onto the stage to present the singer with a National Humanities Medal that caught the famed musician off guard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELTON JOHN, SINGER/MUSICIAN: I'm never flabbergasted. But I'm flabbergasted and humbled and honored by this incredible award from the United States of America. I will treasure this so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Congratulations to him. And the White House says the metal was a tribute to John's musical legacy as well as his global advocacy in the fight against HIV/AIDS.

Well, you are in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Saturday night. And still ahead for you, a train smashes into a police car parked on the railroad track. A suspect handcuffed inside the cruiser survived. Video of that crash caught on camera.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)