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Florida Official: More Personnel Assisting Medical Examiners In Hurricane Ravaged Lee And Charlotte Counties; Death Toll Rises To 74 in Hurricane-Ravaged Florida; Russia Retreats From Key City As Ukraine Reclaims More Ground. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired October 02, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:40]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Fort Myers, Florida.

First thing, we have some updated figures from here on the hurricane zone. It is the most current death toll of people who sadly did not survive Hurricane Ian here in Florida. That new official death toll is now 74. Seventy-four people here in Florida have died now, as a result of Hurricane Ian. Of course, those figures are coming in, and as they develop, we'll bring them to you.

But residents here tell us there is a growing sense of fear that more bodies could soon be discovered. Some areas still remain fairly inaccessible to first responders. We'll show you what I saw on the ground here in just a few minutes.

But in the meantime, CNN has also learned that a team that responds to mass fatality incidents, has deployed equipment and personnel to assist medical examiners in both Lee and Charlotte counties, both of those counties here in Southwest Florida.

Now officials in Lee County where the majority of the deaths have occurred are facing a major question: Why were the first mandatory evacuation orders issued less than 24 hours before Hurricane Ian's landfall? The county's own emergency plan suggests evacuations should have happened much sooner than that. Florida Republican Senator Rick Scott, the State's former Governor says he wants answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-FL): Every loss of life, you have to say yourself, what could you do differently next time so it never happens, again?

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR AND POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Should that have been done differently?

PERRY: Unfortunately, we can't bring anybody back.

We're going to look and find out. I mean, you know, I want to know, because it's an issue I had as Governor is trying to say, what did I learn to try to make sure that we don't lose a life?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now this week, President Joe Biden is expected to head here to Florida to see the devastation for himself firsthand, after warning that Ian could turn out to be the deadliest hurricane in Florida's history.

CNN's Leyla Santiago is in Naples, Florida about an hour south of where I'm standing. Leyla. You know, we've been talking to local law enforcement officials, they are warning the public that this death toll could go higher.

I know you're down in Naples where you know, that area was hit very hard by the storm surge. What are you seeing? Where do things stand today where you are?

LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me show you what I'm seeing around me right now, Jim, just look right in the water and you will see just one example, that is a car that is under this boat, I'll have Orlie (ph) kind of pan up so that then you can also see what landed really in the backyard of these homes.

There is a boat in a home. There is a dock that was ripped off by Hurricane Ian, that dock by the way ended up across the street in the neighbor's driveway. I've been talking to people here who tell me reality is really starting to set in. Yes, they are still in disbelief over the force of Hurricane Ian, the aftermath and what they're dealing with right now.

They are in salvage mode, trying to save what they can and clean up and move on. Listen to what one of the residents told me as she showed me around her house, open drawers where water was still pouring out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOANNE FISHER, NAPLES RESIDENT: It's very sad because a lot of history here and with all of the photos from my husband and his family, and it just tears me up, but I didn't get emotional. I haven't cried. But I'm almost ready to cry right now talking to so...

But it's okay, because we're alive, and we're here and that's the most important thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANTIAGO: And I've got to tell you, Jim, that sentiment was echoed. I mean, that is what I'm hearing from people who say, understanding now the force of Hurricane Ian makes them feel lucky to just be alive.

I want to get you a few updates on recovery efforts. I have spoken to the City Manager, he tells me there are two big efforts right now here in Naples -- in Naples rather. They are really working to assess the damage to the infrastructure in terms of power so they can get a realistic idea as to when they can get back to a hundred percent power restoration and also, they are working on housing, trying to figure out where they can help those that have been displaced by Hurricane Ian get to a safe shelter for now -- Jim. [15:05:07]

ACOSTA: All right, Leyla Santiago. There are so many of those heartbreaking stories. I heard some of them firsthand myself earlier today. It is so difficult to listen to folks pour out their hearts, about how their lives have just been totally destroyed, their homes and everything else. But at least some of these folks, you know, you know, they can tell us that they are still standing, you know, they're still with us and that is what they're holding on to at this moment.

SANTIAGO: Yes.

ACOSTA: Leyla, thank you so much.

As we said, Lee County officials have been fielding questions about the timing of the evacuation orders, which came more than a day after the forecast met the county's criteria.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF CARMINE MARCERO, LEE COUNTY FLORIDA: Everyone wants to focus on a plan that might have been done differently. Well, I'm going to tell you, I stand 100 percent with my County Commissioners, my County Manager, we did what we had to do at the exact same time. I wouldn't have changed anything, and I know being in those meetings from the very minute -- this storm was very unpredictable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And joining me now over the phone is Chief Ryan Lamb of the Cape Coral, Florida Fire Department. He is also the Emergency Management Director for that city.

Chief Lamb, thank you very much for being with us. We appreciate it.

You're just south of me on the river between Fort Myers and Sanibel Island. We're looking at pictures here of your city, just unbelievable devastation and destruction. Streets underwater, flooded neighborhoods. Do you think there were issues with the timing of the evacuations? What do you think?

CHIEF RYAN LAMB, CAPE CORAL, FLORIDA FIRE DEPARTMENT (via phone): Calling for evacuation is always a difficult decision and it is not one that Emergency Managers take lightly. We know that it can be viewed as an inconvenience and people look at storms that they've seen in the past, and we didn't get some of the surge.

But the reason we call for evacuations is because we believe there is an imminent life threat. And so, it's not something that's done easily. It's not something that's done on a whim and it is done based off the data and information that's presented at the time based on the forecast.

ACOSTA: And so what do you think it is? Is it because the storm made this sort of unpredictable -- I mean, I guess, hurricanes are unpredictable, but it made this very sudden right turn towards the coast and perhaps that caught some people off guard, what do you think?

LAMB: Yes, this storm was pretty much the worst case scenario for surge for Cape Coral based off the approach of the storm and counterclockwise rotation, when it got equal to us, it started pushing surge up from the south into our Peninsula and so, that just created a lot of surge and it was very devastating to our community.

ACOSTA: Yes, and I've been talking to resident after resident, and they thought, you know, the storm surge was just not going to be as high as it ended up being. And you know, I've gone through homes where, you know, the storm surge was clearly above over people's heads. And so of course, you're going to have much more damage than what was anticipated.

What does the damage look like where you are? Did you anticipate it being as bad as it is right now?

LAMB: We knew that this was going to be an impactful storm and we did have concerns because not as many folks were going to the shelters as we had seen looking at the census from what they were capable of holding until we tried to increase some of that public messaging. But certainly seeing the impact of this storm, we have dealt with storms and hurricanes in our area for a number of years, every couple of years, it seems like we're dealing with the storm, but this is by far the most catastrophic that our city has seen.

ACOSTA: And you're under a Boil Water Advisory with residents being asked to conserve water. The city has set up just distribution points for both water and food. Do you have everything that you need right now? You just heard us mention a few moments ago, the President is on his way. Of course, the Governor has been on the scene at different points throughout all of this.

Are you getting everything that you need? And what do you need? What would you tell Federal and State officials in terms of what your needs are at this point?

LAMB: Well, we are certainly working with -- the County, the State, and the Federal government met today with a representative from the US Fire Administration, another representative from -- a General with the Army Corps of Engineers to discuss some of our needs.

Water is a key need here for us, getting our water system restored. We are anxious to get that restored and we are hopeful to get that done here in the next day or two. Not only water, but then the treatment plant associated with that, power restoration is going to be key. About 98 percent of our power infrastructure was completely obliterated.

So, it's going to be a reconstruction of that entire process, and so we're fortunate, we were able to get water and power back to our hospitals and keep that in service since two or three other hospitals in our county had to be closed. We're hoping to expand and add more points of distribution for water and food for our residents and fuel, getting gas stations back up is going to be key because we're getting to the point where we've even got some employees that are having a difficult time getting to work because of the limitations on fuel.

[15:10:03]

ACOSTA: Yes, there is no question about that, Chief. I mean, we've been driving by gas station after gas station, the lines are long. And you know, tempers are flaring in some instances. You know, folks, they just didn't anticipate this level of destruction and these kinds of needs that are just very apparent right now on the ground.

Chief Ryan Lamb, thanks so much for taking time to speak with us. We appreciate it.

LAMB: All right, thank you.

ACOSTA: All right, and CNN's Bill Weir spent the last several days exploring some of the most extreme damage from the storm, including boats that were literally picked up and tossed across the street. Here are some of what he saw.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: This is the destructive path of Ian, it came raking across here. A lot of the businesses here, of course have to do with recreation here in paradise -- kayak rentals, bait shops, completely split open by the wind. But what's most striking about this particular spot is the boats that have been tossed into the mangroves across the street here.

This is what I wanted to show you. This is across San Carlos Boulevard and just get a load of this. Just wanton indiscriminate destruction. I think about how a family saves up their whole life to buy a boat, or if you're a fisherman, you dream of being a Captain one day and how perilous that is even in a good year sometimes.

But now, what this will do to the maritime businesses around here, the insurance, the marine insurance companies that will have to deal with the aftermath of this, and is what I really wanted to show you guys. Look at this.

I will always remember the sight of Captain Greg's boat, the Cracker Jack, which is now parked on top of this Chevy Suburban. You can hear the alarm going off inside the boat to alert the Captain that something is wrong. It's heartbreaking in this setting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And CNN's chief climate correspondent, Bill Weir joins me now. Bill just got out of the storm zone.

Bill, thanks so much for being with us. You've covered a lot of hurricanes I know in your career, I just saw you standing next to a boat that was on top of a car there. I'm standing in front of a boat that's on top of another boat where I'm at. I mean, this is -- it's unbelievable to see this kind of damage firsthand.

In terms of what you've seen over the course of your career covering these storms, how does this one stack up?

WEIR: It is at the top.

It's definitely one of the most violent forces I've ever seen, you know, from St. James City out on Pine Island there; that will haunt me. The folks out there who you know, mostly lived in prefab housing and mobile homes, you know, middle class folks, working class folks, retirees, a lot of them who didn't have insurance -- just everything their entire lives scattered across the landscape in the canals, in the mangroves.

Just to see the highways ripped up the way they are, you know, it reminded me of Michael, when it hit the panhandle. You look back, but every storm is different, Jim. And ultimately, you've got to reserve the status for this one, based on the human response, which is just now getting underway, and it is such an incredible effort.

Like you have to put your -- you have to have empathy for the emergency managers now. They rode out the same storm, they haven't slept either. They don't have showers or hot meals either. And now they've got the pressure of the communities, all the needs are like coming to a boil.

So this is the point where, you know, the goodwill that is inherent when we all go through a shocking situation together where you know, people in communities pull together, it can start to fray if not properly managed, if people don't see signs of hope or bits of help coming their way. So, really Ian's legacy will depend on human responses now.

ACOSTA: Yes, and we're just seeing, you know, Department of Homeland Security vehicles coming through where we are right now. So, you know, those Federal and State assets are coming in. They just can't come in fast enough.

And Bill, there was this emotional moment that you had where you followed this woman into Cape Coral as she went back to her home for the first time since the hurricane and both of you were trekking through mud and water. I was doing some of this earlier today with another homeowner. It's just devastating. What was that -- what was that like for you?

WEIR: Well, it was this lovely woman named Laura Mueller (ph). She's actually from New Jersey, that's their winter home and she had this amazingly light spirit about her, her and a friend came wading in and just to get a peek of their place. And what I saw her cycle through was sort of like the five stages of grief that you go through.

You know, there is denial at first, "It's going to be okay." Usually, it's anger and bargaining followed by depression and acceptance and she didn't really get angry. She was trying to bargain with the idea that maybe we can rebuild.

[15:15:11]

WEIR: But 15 minutes, she went from denial to acceptance, and she had such a sweet spirit because she said, look, we're better off than most, we have another home. And a lot of people around in her little mobile home park, the Sunshine Mobile Home Park, she's a shell collector, and this is their mecca, right?

And so yes, it was just -- to watch these folks sort of days, go on these emotional rides, and try to make sense of what comes next is really touching. But it's -- you know, it's something that we're going to unfortunately have to get used to.

Ian is the 46th Category 4 or 5 storm of the last 20 years, which is about the same number that there were in the last 40 years of the 20th Century. And so Ian now is this superlative storm, but it may be normal, it may be your average storm in the next thirty, forty years.

ACOSTA: Yes, I mean, I remember covering Hurricane Charley here back in 2004 and I talked to a resident who rode out that storm back then, and she said you could take Hurricane Charley and put it inside the eye of Hurricane Ian. I mean, that just tells you how powerful Hurricane Ian was. And you're right, the some of the most deadly storms, the most ferocious storms, the costliest storms were in the last couple of decades.

What does this tell us about climate change?

WEIR: It's what scientists have been really trying to warn us about for a long time and it is sort of basic seventh grade science physics, which is carbon dioxide, captures the heat around our planet, every second of every day, the oceans absorb as much extra heat as five Hiroshima sized atomic bombs.

The oceans are so big, they've been absorbing, hiding a lot of the change deep in the oceans, but now as they're warming up, this is the fruit of that. There is also sea level rises. You know, Greenland is melting like a popsicle on a hot sidewalk these days and that is not great.

Climate attribution, science finds that Ian is 10 percent wetter than it would have been, you know, pre industrial revolution which leads to two feet of rain, which is just sort of insult to injury from the saltwater inundation there.

Yes, it is all lining up as predicted. But it's not too late for humanity to figure this out, and keep it from getting more horrible.

ACOSTA: Yes, these hurricanes, they're ringing alarm bells every time they crash ashore. Bill Weir, thank you very much. Great work down here. We appreciate it as always. Great to see you, thanks so much.

WEIR: Thanks, Jim. We'll see you back down there next week.

ACOSTA: Sounds good.

All right, coming up, we'll take you a bit south of here to the community of Bonita Springs, Florida in hard-hit Lee County, where most people died during Hurricane Ian, what we saw during our drive through one neighborhood that was pummeled by the storm. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Did you ride out the storm or anything like that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did not ride out the storm. We evacuated. The water was up to 14 feet, it was actually halfway to that front door with the waves crashing against the house.

Our neighbors got stuck here and they had this safe harbor in their house, and it was hard. We came in and there was six inches of mud.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the farrago, so I am going to see if gets to the --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we are just -- the back is worse than the front. The front is probably 10 percent, the back is like blown out.

ACOSTA: Can we take a look?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

I was thinking last night, I said, I live in paradise.

ACOSTA: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there was a roof over my head. I was literally in --

ACOSTA: Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is all like an outdoor living space. You can see our interior, this is all blown out. None of this is our stuff.

ACOSTA: None of this is your stuff?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This of this is our stuff. That's the only thing that's our stuff.

This is other people's stuff. My boat, that's someone else's house.

ACOSTA: On your boat?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it's on my lift, it is not mine, but my boat looks like it survived. My lift and my -- this, we had to put a plywood because there's just no safety for animals or looters. I mean, so we had to put plywood out.

But inside, we lost everything. Everything was blown out. You can see like all the mangroves, those are known locals. Most people in the damage are like, that's not ours.

ACOSTA: Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four doors down, their son's best friend is a Lee County Sheriff. They're finding hundreds of bodies now.

ACOSTA: That's what we're hearing. They are all over the place.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not like 20s, it is hundreds of bodies now that they're getting in and looking at.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is so sad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's horrible, but our block. This block alone is, we're safe. Everybody is safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Some of the residents we met earlier today in hard-hit Bonita Springs just outside of Fort Myers, here on the southwest coast of Florida. Again, we are talking to resident after resident in this area. They're telling us the same thing, that they expect, based on what they're hearing that this death toll in this area is going to go higher than where it stands right now.

We can tell you the latest information that we have is that the death toll for Hurricane Ian now stands at 74. We have learned that Florida's Emergency Mortuary Operations Response System has deployed equipment and personnel to hard-hit Lee and Charlotte Counties. These are people who will help assist the Medical Examiners, and that news is unsurprising.

[15:25:10]

ACOSTA: When you see the storm and what it did, it just left many of these communities unrecognizable.

We did talk -- we heard from the Sheriff of Lee County just a short time ago, earlier this afternoon, and he was saying, yes, he is hearing these anecdotal stories about perhaps there are more bodies, people who haven't been found yet, the missing and so on.

They say the authorities here on the southwest coast of Florida say they are working diligently to go through all of these different communities to make sure the death toll is what it is at this moment, but that just goes to the desperate situation that these communities face right now and that is because there are so many communities that are just not within reach at this point, or you have to go by boat.

Roads have been washed out, bridges have been washed out. There are mobile home communities with wreckage everywhere, it's that kind of desperate situation. We're standing in front of a fishing charter boat that was washed onto the roadway here on this road that leads over to Fort Myers Beach. So that just gives you a sense as to what's going on.

We're going to talk to more of the survivors of Hurricane Ian later on in this program. You're going to hear from them personally, but in the meantime, coming up, a Putin critic expelled from Russia years ago joins me live on the Russian President's illegal land grab and whether he thinks we're on the verge of seeing nuclear weapons used in Ukraine. That conversation is coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:58]

ACOSTA: On Florida's Sanibel Island, residents remain cut off from the Mainland after Hurricane Ian took out the main causeway in this area, they are desperate for help. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICKEY ANDERSON, RESIDENT OF SANIBEL ISLAND, FLORIDA: Can we get some help down here? You know, would that be too much to ask? I mean, you look around here, there is nothing. We have no power, no phone service, nothing.

So, we would just like little help -- like a little help to get my home back in shape because I have nowhere to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And joining me now over the phone is Dr. Ben Abo. He serves as Medical Director for a number of agencies including Sanibel Fire Rescue and Matlacha Pine Island Fire Rescue.

Dr. Abo, thanks so much for being with us. We appreciate it.

Are you seeing evidence that this current death toll of 74 is actually much higher right now? What is your sense of it?

DR. BEN ABO, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, SANIBEL FIRE RESCUE AND MATLACHA PINE ISLAND FIRE RESCUE (via phone): I wouldn't be totally surprised seeing kind of what's going on, but I have not actually seen the evidence of it yet. We've done quite a number of evacuations as well rescues, but I have not seen the numbers so I go by what the officials have released.

ACOSTA: Right. And that's all we have to go off of until they update us with new information, no question about it.

But Dr. Abo, let me ask you this. Are you getting reports of people desperately calling in saying "I can't find my mother. I can't find my father, my grandparents, a brother or a sister" that kind of thing? Is there some kind of accounting going on of the missing?

ABO: Yes, there are a lot of people who are trying to funnel in a lot of information. I know I get texts and phone calls, personal Facebook messages, Twitter messages even, trying to forward things through. A lot of these usually can kind of organize it and see if that area has already been checked. It is going to the 9-1-1 Center, the EOC and at the Federal level, and the State Disaster Teams themselves, you know, really what is called a hasty search.

So we're going through every door and we're searching all the properties. I'm calling for help from Pine Island and we are going and we are accounting for all that at the same time. I know that Fire Departments are doing their thing and doing welfare checks and kind of responding to basically welfare checks for those things, as well and we are kind of checking off every address when we hear something.

ACOSTA: And what do you make of how the evacuation order was handled? We've heard from some residents who wish they had heard sooner that an evacuation order was needed in this area. I know local officials have been asked about this, they're defending the way that they handled this, what's your sense of it?

ABO: As soon as anyone honestly knew that there was anything kind of coming through, it was starting to be recommended through all different routes. So, I support kind of what was done and all. If people -- a lot of people seem to need it to be mandated, which they were warned ahead of time and we were trying to give the best advice and said, hey, get out of there while you can, so that we will still come and get you and to try to find you, but it's going to take longer time. But if you can get out sooner, that is honestly the better.

I'm seeing and meeting a lot of people that decided still even after it was mandatory, still stayed and that's who we are going for and trying to account for in search and rescue at this time.

ACOSTA: And are you concerned about the wellbeing of the survivors? You know, do people have the food, the water, the supplies that they need to get through the days ahead? In many of these homes, people are trying to go back in there, they are cleaning them out, but they don't have power and they don't have electricity.

You're talking about a senior citizen community in many cases, you might have folks who might not be able to handle all of that, hitting them at once. Any concerns there?

[15:35:13]

ABO: That is among the tops of my concerns, not only the people, but also their pets as well. And that's why we work so hard to try to do things. We are going door-to-door, basically, and talking to those people and telling them, "Hey, do you have water? Do you have power?" Trying to talk to people and make them understand that we're really trying to -- we have to prioritize search and rescue and evacuation.

So these supplies coming, some more were just dropped off here, for instance, the priority is elsewhere and I really do fear that they don't realize how much more that they really need. What's going to happen, where they expect to be able to get it because over on mainland, it's even hard to do things. So, where you have islands that are cut off, their roads, I don't know what they really expect and I find myself often saying that denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Get out. Let us figure out how we can best help you so that we can then get everyone back, safe and rebuild as needed.

ACOSTA: That's very good advice. All right. Dr. Ben Abo, thank you very much for your time. Good luck out there. We appreciate it.

ABO: Thank you. ACOSTA: And for information on how you can help the victims of

Hurricane Ian, go to cnn.com/impact.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:40:54]

ACOSTA: Ukrainian flags are flying again in a key city on the country's frontline after Russian troops fled. We are taking you there inside where all of this is unfolding. This is brand new CNN video from inside Lyman in Eastern Ukraine, people there lived through months of Russian occupation and terror and you can see the devastation there.

Russian troops fled Lehman on Friday, the same day, Vladimir Putin claimed the city and territory around it and three other provinces in Ukraine, saying they now belong to Russia. Joining us now to talk about this is Bill Browder, he is the CEO of Hermitage Capital Management the author of "Freezing Order: A True Story of Money Laundering, Murder and Surviving Vladimir Putin's Wrath."

Bill, thank you very much for being with us. We appreciate it.

I'm coming to you from the storm zone here in Florida. So, we've got generators, we've got all kinds of distractions here on the ground. I hope it's not too loud for you on your end.

But, you know, nearly two weeks ago, you predicted that Vladimir Putin was going to declare these territories as part of Russia and then use that to threaten the region with nuclear weapons. What made you come to that conclusion early on, and what do you make of the nuclear saber rattling that we're seeing now?

BILL BROWDER, CEO, HERMITAGE CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: So, Vladimir Putin has been losing this war, at least from a military conventional standpoint. He has lost about 60,000 soldiers, probably another 50,000 have been disabled or prisoners of war. And as a result, we've seen it on our television that the Ukrainians are sweeping over previously occupied territories. They are pushing the Russians out, as you mentioned, the town of Lyman, which is a key strategic area has been freed by the Ukrainians.

And so Putin needed something in order to justify crafting a bunch more people. He needed more cannon fodder, more individuals out there. They did the draft. The draft was very unpopular, and so they needed to come up with some intensification. And by declaring these places part of Russia, these Ukrainian cities part of Russia. They're now basically trying to create some nationalist fervor so that the young men who are being drafted, think that they're going for some reason to protect Russian territory, as opposed to some crazy adventure that Putin has come up with in his own head.

ACOSTA: And officials are still trying to figure out what caused leaks in the Nord Stream Pipeline. President Biden has gone so far as to say it is deliberate sabotage. He did not directly accuse the Kremlin of causing it. How does that situation play into what's going on, do you think?

BROWDER: So what Putin is trying to do right now, is trying to use every piece of leverage he has -- both -- using his own face and then using plausible deniability to scare us, and so what is blowing up a pipeline do? This particular pipeline is not a functioning pipeline. It's not a pipeline that is being used to move gas, because we stopped it. But what Putin is saying to us by blowing up his pipeline is, look, I can blow up a pipeline. If need be, I can blow up the internet cables coming into your country. I can blow up functioning pipelines. I could do all sorts of stuff.

So this is basically sabotage on a grand scale and as a warning to us to say that, you know, he is not going to go down without a massive fight, and he is going to cause us damage like we can't even imagine. That is what he's trying to say to us right now.

ACOSTA: And today, the NATO Secretary General, Jens Stoltenberg reiterated that all 30 member nations of NATO have to agree for Ukraine to become a part of NATO. What are your thoughts on this? At this stage of the war, does it does it help matters for Ukraine to join NATO? Or perhaps Steve, maybe call Putin's bluff here.

BROWDER Well, so the interesting thing is so Putin, like dreams up this decree saying these four places in Ukraine are my territory and the Ukrainians had to come up with something, so they said okay, today we apply to NATO.

Neither of them are going to happen. Those parts of Ukraine are not Putin's territory and it is going to take a long time before Ukraine becomes part of NATO, but I think it was an appropriate response. It was showing Putin that, you know, for everything that he does, there's going to be a counter response.

[15:45:20]

BROWDER: Of the 30 or so member states, 10 of them have already come out in favor of Ukraine going -- joining. It doesn't mean it's going to happen. But, you know, Putin is trolling the West with these, you know, fictitious annexations and there is a reason why Ukraine shouldn't do something equally provocative on the other side.

ACOSTA: All right, Bill Browder. Great thanks as always. Always appreciate your insights, when you can weigh in on this situation. Many thanks. Thanks for your time.

BROWDER: Thank you.

ACOSTA: And we're going to have more live coverage of the hurricane here in Fort Myers that's coming up next.

Plus, first teargas and then a deadly stampede. How a soccer match ended with more than 120 people killed. If you have not seen this video, it is just unbelievable, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:36]

ACOSTA: In Indonesia, officials are calling last night's soccer crowd stampede, a tragedy beyond comprehension. At least 125 people were killed and this is how it looked and sounded.

[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

ACOSTA: Just unbelievable footage here. It is one of the world's deadliest ever stadium disasters. Authorities say fans of Indonesia's two biggest soccer teams started fighting in the stands and field and when police arrived, they fired off teargas and that just triggered a crush of people trying to escape the scene.

CNN's Will Ripley joins us live from Taipei, Taiwan.

Will, I mean, you know, we're down here on the Gulf Coast. You know, it is just unbelievable what's happening down here. And as soon as we're done with the show last night, you know, I saw some of this coming in and just thought my goodness, this is just an unspeakable tragedy. The casualty figures are just staggering, 125 people dead. What more do we know?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We haven't seen this many people dead in a stadium disaster gym since 1964 in Lima, Peru. The world is not used to this many people dying in an incident like this that many people who are looking into this say just shouldn't have happened.

Why did police use teargas, which is banned by football's governing body, FIFA? Why were thousands more tickets sold than what the stadium had capacity for? Why were families with children put in a position where they had to choose between their kids suffocating or trying to race for an exit along with everyone else?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RIPLEY (voice over): Saturday night, East Java, Indonesia. Two of the region's biggest football rivals, the atmosphere, electric.

FIRZIE IDRIS, SPORTS JOURNALIST: The police already know that this is a high risk match. There were no OA supporters allowed. There was an increased police presence at the stadium.

RIPLEY (voice over): Indonesian football fans fiercely loyal. Police prepared for brawls to break out. Nobody prepared for this -- a crushing loss for the home team. Fans begin hurling objects. Police fire teargas at the lower stands to prevent a rush for the pitch. Instead, fans rushed for the exit.

IDRIS: They also got the fact of the teargas that you had mass panic, mass stampede. We have -- this is a tragedy that's never happened before in the history of Indonesian football.

RIPLEY (voice over): A tragedy made worse by the number of families with children caught in the stampede.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)

RIPLEY (voice over): "Those who are here are mostly because of trauma," says this paramedic. Shortness of breath, lack of oxygen; some suffocating, others trampled. Dozens died almost instantly, many more at area hospitals.

Medical teams tried to mend mangled survivors.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)

RIPLEY (voice over): "Many of our friends lost their lives because the police did not humanize us," says this survivors.

(JOKO WIDODO speaking in foreign language.)

RIPLEY (voice over): "A human tragedy," Indonesia's President says, "Must never happen again."

JOKO WIDODO, INDONESIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I regret this tragedy and I hope this is the last tragedy of football in this country.

RIPLEY (voice over): He is ordering a full investigation, including the apparent use of teargas banned by FIFA, football's governing association.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)

RIPLEY (voice over): "Teargas was not only inside the stadium, but also outside." This survivor says. "We are all sick. Sorry for our friends. We ask for justice."

The stadium was apparently filled beyond capacity. Indonesia's Chief Security Minister says 42,000 tickets sold in a stadium meant to hold 38,000. The numbers add up to Indonesia's deadliest football tragedy, the world's second deadliest stadium disaster.

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RIPLEY (on camera): There have been previous outbreaks of trouble in matches in Indonesia. That's a fact. They have very strong rivalries in between clubs. Almost every province in Indonesia has a team and when people don't have a whole lot else in their lives in terms of possessions, they cling to these teams and their loyalty to these teams.

So fights break out, violence breaks out. Why were police not better prepared is one key question that people are asking, Jim.

[15:55:04]

RIPLEY: And you know, given that Indonesia is set to host next year's FIFA under 20 World Cup, and they're staging a bid right now for the 2023 Asian Cup, there is a lot of global scrutiny on Indonesia and whether they're fit to host events at this global scale.

ACOSTA: A lot of unanswered questions, no question about it.

All right, Will Ripley, thank you very much for that report.

Coming up: Our live coverage of the aftermath of Hurricane Ian continues as fears grow, the death toll could rise dramatically. President Biden is set to visit the area on Wednesday, more coming up.

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