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Death Toll Rises To 74 Hurricane-Ravaged Florida; Rescue Workers Search For Victims Amid Catastrophic Damage; Hundreds Of People Rescued Across Hard-Hit Florida; Fareed Zakaria's Latest Documentary; Nuclear Saber-Rattling; Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-FL) Interview. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired October 02, 2022 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:26]
JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Fort Myers, Florida.
Today the death toll from Hurricane Ian has risen again. Officials now confirming at least 74 people lost their lives in this catastrophic storm. But that number is expected to go up as first responders continue to search hard-hit areas.
CNN has also learned that a team that responds to mass fatality incidents has deployed resources to assist medical examiners in both Lee and Charlotte Counties. Now officials in Lee County where a majority of the deaths have occurred are facing mounting questions about the timing of their mandatory evacuation orders. The first ones were issued less than 24 hours before the Hurricane Ian's landfall despite the county's emergency plan that suggest evacuations should have been happened sooner.
I've been on the ground in Lee County throughout the day documenting the devastation. Yesterday in Matlacha and today in Bonita Springs. Here's a look at some of what I saw.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Did you ride out the storm or anything?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did not ride out the storm. We evacuated. The water was up to 14 feet. It was actually half way to that front door with the waves crashing against the house. Our neighbors got stuck here and they had to safe harbor in our house. And it was (INAUDIBLE). We came in and it was six inches of mud.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of this is the (INAUDIBLE). I'm going to see if they could salvage it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we're just -- the back is worse than the front. The front is probably 10 percent. The back is like blown out.
ACOSTA: Can we take a look?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I said I live in paradise. ACOSTA: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there was a roof over my head. I was literally in --
ACOSTA: Wow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is all like our living space. This is all blown out. None of this is our stuff.
ACOSTA: None of this is your stuff?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: None of this is our stuff. That's the only thing that's our stuff. This is other people's stuff. My boat, that's someone else's house.
ACOSTA: On your boat?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it's on my lift. My boat looks like it survived.
ACOSTA: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My lift and my -- this, we had to put up plywood because there is just no safety for animals or looters. I mean, so we had to put plywood up. But it's like we lost everything. Everything was blown out. You can see like all the mangroves. Those are no one locals. Most people in the damage are like, that's not ours.
ACOSTA: Wow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four doors down, their son's best friend is a Lee County sheriff. They're finding hundreds of bodies now.
ACOSTA: That's what we're hearing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then it's not like 20s. It's hundreds of bodies now that they're getting in and looking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's so sad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's horrible. But our block, this block alone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're safe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody is safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And we're hearing that time and again from residents in this area that they are hearing anecdotally that bodies are being found. They're not being added to the death toll as of yet because things have not been officially confirmed and so on. We asked the local sheriff in this area about this just a short time ago. He was sticking to the number that they have right now. 42 here in Lee County. Part of the 74 overall. But he also issued a caution which was they're still trying to figure
out, trying to ascertain where bodies might be located. They're still looking for survivors at this point. And so preparing the public for the very real possibility that this number could go higher.
CNN's Leyla Santiago is in Naples, Florida, for us, about an hour south of where I'm standing.
Leyla, and that, I mean, that speaks volumes in and of itself. You're an hour south of here and you're seeing an area that was also hit hard by the storm surge just like where we are up in Fort Myers. It's just unbelievable destruction all around us. What are you hearing from officials there?
LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Unbelievable for sure. Jim, And I actually did speak to the city manager. I'm going to get to what he told me in just a minute but I want to make the point of how powerful this was. We are at this house, this is 2820. Take a look right behind. That is the dock from 2825. This dock traveled across the street. This dock came from over here. This house. Behind this house. Off the coast over there. And that speaks to how powerful this storm was and the destruction it left behind.
[16:05:02]
Now let's get to what you were asking about what officials are telling me. I just spoke to the city manager here in Naples and he stressed that this is going to be a long-term recovery. They have a very long to-do list. Not days, not weeks, but months. It will take months to recover from this. Listen to what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY BOODHESHWAR, NAPLES CITY MANAGER: Now people need to take care of their emotional and mental health because we're really going to need to work together on this.
SANTIAGO: What can you tell me about the death toll? Do you expect that to change?
BOODHESHWAR: We -- we're concerned. Obviously nine feet of surge, water rising as rapidly as it has, we have no confirmed storm-related deaths at this point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANTIAGO: And you know, as I talk to the neighbors here, Jim, many of them are saying, look, the reality is starting to set in. Yes, these things that we are seeing, the piles of debris are very much something that are hard to believe but it is starting to set in, the reality of what the next few weeks and months will be for them here.
The city manager also telling me there are two big focuses. One is assessing the damage, to the infrastructure when it comes to power so they can get a more realistic idea of restoration, when it will be 100 percent. Right now it's about a third of customers still don't have power. And the other is just housing. Where are they going to put all the folks that have been displaced -- Jim.
ACOSTA: All right, Leyla Santiago, I mean, when we look at the aerial footage of where you are, it's really, it's unimaginable what's been taking place here over the last several days. I know you're in the thick of it. Leyla, thank you so much.
As we mentioned at the top, there are growing questions about why Lee County where we're standing right now waited so long to order mandatory evacuations. We now know that it is the county with the highest death toll and CNN's Boris Sanchez, my colleague who's been on the scene here, he spoke to officials about all of this and here is what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There are indications that Lee County's Comprehensive Emergency Management plan was ignored. Lee County did not issue evacuation orders until Tuesday morning --
SHERIFF CARMINE MARCENO, LEE COUNTY, FLORIDA: So let's talk about that, sir. I'm going to cut you off before you go any further.
SANCHEZ: Sure.
MARCENO: I don't know who you are or where you come from. Everyone wants to focus on a plan that might have been done differently. I'm going to tell you, I stand 100 percent with my county commissioners, my county manager, we did what we had to do at the exact same time. I wouldn't have changed anything. And I know being in those meetings from the very minute.
This storm was very unpredictable and I say right here, my fellow brother Chad Chronister from Hillsborough, I called him five hours when he got word that the storm was going to hit Tampa. And I said, Sheriff, I'm sorry, I see the projected path, I'm going to send you everything that we have to help you. Well, that unpredictability, he called me back and said, Sheriff, look at what we're talking about. That storm is now coming your way.
We weren't even in the projected path or cone. OK. So I'm confident that we gave everything to this storm that we should have at the right time and I think more so the governor had it right. He said after the cameras are here and they're long gone, you know, there is a thirst to be first. Right? Everybody wants that information. Well, for us, it's about a commitment. It's not just the cameras, it's about moving forward in a positive way.
And now let's focus on what's the right thing to do and how we could help the people that are in need. Next question.
SANCHEZ: And Sheriff, if I may follow up please?
MARCENO: Yes, sir.
SANCHEZ: Respectfully, my name is Boris Sanchez, I'm with CNN. I'm purely presenting the questions that are being asked by folks here on the ground who are reading these reports and reading this plan and wondering if something could have been done differently. We respect what you're doing now. We appreciate it. Again, respectfully, places like Hillsborough County, counties nearby Lee County evacuated -- issued evacuation orders well before Tuesday morning when Lee County did.
What do you say to residents who look at that and wonder why Lee County waited to do so?
MARCENO: And respectfully I say, because of that projected path, we were not even in the cone and the storm was slow-moving. About nine miles an hour, although it did pack a horrific punch. The second that we could and should issue that order, I'm confident that we did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: My colleague Boris Sanchez here in Lee County asking the hard questions of the sheriff here. We're still waiting for those answers. In the meantime, earlier today, I traveled to Iona, Florida, another part of Lee County where a resident named Patty McIver (PH) took me into her home to show me the damage and something very special she was determined to save amid the rubble. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATTY MCIVER, IONA, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Once you get past here, this is sturdy. It's my living room.
[16:10:03]
ACOSTA: Yes. I can tell this is -- oh, my gosh.
MCIVER: We were going to do the kitchen in October and I have to tell you, I'm going to show you something if you guys don't mind. The floors are a little bit -- way more sounded than that.
ACOSTA: Sure. Sure.
MCIVER: This is (INAUDIBLE).
ACOSTA: Oh, my gosh.
MCIVER: Look at these wine glasses, how they --
ACOSTA: The wine glasses made it somehow.
MCIVER: They just laid at my boyfriend's (INAUDIBLE). The bottoms of my cubby. So that's what probably (INAUDIBLE), and it pulled them down.
ACOSTA: Wow.
MCIVER: Careful.
ACOSTA: Yes.
MCIVER: I want to show you something. My dad has gone over -- there is no electricity. I have my cell phone.
ACOSTA: Yes, I have a cell phone. I can put the light on in here.
MCIVER: My dad just tiled this for me.
ACOSTA: Your dad just did the tile work in here.
MCIVER: He's done it in like 50 percent of these homes.
ACOSTA: My goodness.
MCIVER: I just want to show you because I just got it. And --
ACOSTA: Oh, it is beautiful.
MCIVER: Yes.
ACOSTA: Did a great job.
MCIVER: He tiled and left the tub in here. Just got a brand-new sink. All of this was retiled, new vanity.
ACOSTA: It was great. Oh, my goodness.
MCIVER: Yes. That was a sunroom now. I don't -- in here.
ACOSTA: Yes. Absolutely.
MCIVER: I think you guys know.
ACOSTA: Of course. Oh, my goodness.
MCIVER: Another dig in. And Sanibel Police car.
ACOSTA: There's your police car right there. But the water just came through here.
MCIVER: He did this one as well. And I was going to put glass doors on here. He's 84 years old.
ACOSTA: Yes.
MCIVER: We had repainted the bedroom. Didn't do the flooring yet. Thank God. But people want to know.
ACOSTA: Exactly.
MCIVER: And people that are here that can't see what -- I mean, they just want to --
ACOSTA: And you're saving the flag there, huh?
MCIVER: Saving the flag. It's muddy, but you know, it fared pretty good. The rubber boots (INAUDIBLE). I'm going to put this here for now and then my dad has got a flagpole over there. We're going to hang it up so. ACOSTA: God to save the American flag.
MCIVER: Absolutely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And just a beautiful moment there with Patty. Thanks so much to her for opening up her home to us. And just a remarkable thing to see her save that flag at the end of that interview.
I'm joined now by Colonel Jamie Booth with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers in Jacksonville, Florida.
Just a perfect segue I think to what you've been up against. You're dealing with so many of these folks out here who were heartbroken. They're coming home to so many problems. Sometimes their home is just completely gone. Perhaps in some cases they've lost relatives. What are you seeing as you're making your way around this community?
COL. JAMES BOOTH, U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS, JACKSONVILLE: Sure. Jim, thanks for having me here today. I think I want to start off by just saying from the Army Corps of Engineers we just want to express our condolences to anyone who lost family members or property from this storm. But to your question about what am I seeing. At my level of leadership. I've been engaged with city, county, state and federal leadership basically commanding and controlling the response.
And what's absolutely amazing is how hard everybody is working. I had the opportunity to go see Mayor Holly Smith from Sanibel the day after the hurricane. Her and her team working so hard to take care of her folks. Lee County, I've been at their Emergency Operations Center watching the commissioners and their staff just working hard every day to make sure that they do everything they can to help recover and respond as quickly as possible.
ACOSTA: And we were on the south end of this county earlier today. We were on the northern end yesterday. And it just looks like a path of destruction up and down this coast where the storm surge came ashore. Combined with these category 4 winds and in many cases category 5 type wind gusts, and all of that punishing rain and it just seems like it has left a massive scope of destruction that is going to take months if not years to deal with.
What is your assessment of the breadth of the damage that we're all taking in right now?
BOOTH: Sure. Sure. Pretty significant. But not the first time that this nation has been through a tragedy like this before. And so at the local level, maybe not as much. But at certainly the state and federal level, a lot of senior leaders that know how to do this and help the communities recover as quickly as possible, but certainly with you a long-term effort as well.
ACOSTA: And how long do you think it's going to take for this area to get back to normal given the expertise that you have in this area seeing? You know, in Sarasota County, for example, you know, a levee had some issues that they were concerned about and crews rescued 200 people this weekend. I mean, they're almost playing -- authorities and rescuers and emergency officials almost playing whack-a-mole in trying to get to some of these communities and pulling out survivors.
BOOTH: Yes. Well, it may seem like chaos but I think it's controlled activity to make sure that we get through the initial stages of response after a storm like this.
[16:15:04]
I wouldn't want to hesitate to guess to how long it's going to take. But what I can tell you at the federal level is that the United States Army Corps of Engineers and FEMA has been set in conditions for almost a week ahead of the storm to make sure assets were prepositioned so we're ready to respond should the assets needed by the state exceeded either at the county or state capabilities.
And we're ready to do that. But I will say, the counties and the state are doing an amazing job internal with the capabilities they have on their own right now.
ACOSTA: And what is your sense of, I mean, we're seeing that the death toll right now is at 74. Given your agency's experience in dealing with these kinds of disasters, it may take several days I suppose, well into this week before we have our arms around the full scope of the human toll of what's taken place here.
BOOTH: So the Army Corps of Engineers after these type of disasters serves effectively as FEMA's engineer. And that effectively kind of makes us America's engineer in this point in time. Some of the areas where we focus on, maybe not on that search and rescue type of effort that you're talking about, but getting in with spot emergency power general for critical infrastructure like hospitals, wastewater treatment plants, water treatment plants.
We also come in with infrastructure assessment teams which we have on ground now plugged in here at Lee County. And we're actually plugging in with some of the cities like the local cities here actually trying to figure out what their needs are. We bring or maintain a blue roof capability if that is needed, if the scale of the impact is that high. And so this is the type of things the Army Corps of Engineers brings to the fight.
ACOSTA: And Colonel, I was also wondering about the cell phone service around here. You mentioned water and electricity and hospitals and so on. The cell phone service around here has just been beaten to pieces. I mean, it is very difficult to get that going. Any sign -- is that an area that you guys would focus on? How do we get that going in this area? Because one of the things that we talked to folks about in this area time and again, they want to know when their cell phones can work so they can call loved ones, text with loved ones and so on.
BOOTH: Sure. And we struggled through the same issues, right. And FEMA has many support function. We're support function through infrastructure. There is a support functioning for communication and I really can't really speak to that. That's not our area of expertise. ACOSTA: But the hospitals, the hospitals are up and running.
BOOTH: Yes.
ACOSTA: Local critical infrastructure, that's up and running as far as you can tell or there are some areas that need some help?
BOOTH: So with our infrastructure assessment teams, we've actually been out taking a look and standing up alongside some of the hospitals at the county level and we're seeing one of their main needs was that potable water supply which we're seeing in Lee County and some of the cities getting up and running and improving every day. That seemed to be the main concern and they seem to be improving the situation.
ACOSTA: OK. All right. Colonel Jimmy Booth, thank you very much. We appreciate it. Excellent work out here. Thanks so much.
BOOTH: Thanks for having me.
ACOSTA: Thanks for your time.
BOOTH: Appreciate it.
ACOSTA: Yes. We appreciate it. No -- and keep at it. We need it.
Coming up, still ahead, Ian's path has caused historic damage across the state of Florida as officials work to help people who have lost everything. We'll have much more on the latest recovery efforts coming up next.
You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:22:11]
ACOSTA: And we are back in Fort Myers, Florida, as state begins to grapple with the widespread destruction from Hurricane Ian. It is all around us. And at least 74 people lost their lives in the storm but that number is expected to go higher. Many who did survive all of this miraculously are now facing terrible conditions. Their homes and businesses destroyed. No electricity or running water in many cases.
And joining me is Doug McGill. His friends call him Chainsaw which means we're not going to mess with Chainsaw here but we're going to get his story. He's helping people -- he's been helping people out of this situation, rescuing people with his sailboat.
And Doug, tell me a little bit about what happened. You were out here in the middle of the storm, you were on your sailboat, and there was some of your neighbors who were close by who were in really desperate trouble and you had to essentially spring into action and help get them to safety. Tell us what happened.
DOUG MCGILL, RESIDENT OF FORT MYERS BEACH, FLORIDA: Life took me to that point. But there was last two boats standing, there's one behind us here. We were the only two tied up to the pier. Everybody else was across the road being washed away. When my boat got -- I had to cut it loose because it was going to rip him loose and he ended up in the back of the restaurant where I live all back in my 38-foot sailboat.
The Camper and Nicholson, it was a bulletproof. If anybody has one, I want one. But I tripped over beside the two-story building, there was three guys trying to get out of the second story window, that was just about under water, and they were trapped inside. I got them out of the other side and they were done. We got them on the boat.
ACOSTA: And when you say done, you mean -- and you were telling me this earlier. One of the men that you rescued was sort of lying limp on --
MCGILL: All three of them were.
ACOSTA: All three of them.
MCGILL: They called into a dingy that -- actually there was a gentleman that I was telling about, he was tied to me. His dingy was over there. They caught it going by. And between that dingy and me showing up at the right time, not by choice, pulled over and got over there and knocked part of the building down that they live in. Where they were at is totally gone right now. Not a thing. The roof saved us because once I got them on, the wind picked up even harder. And we were a good 12 foot above where we're standing right now.
My bottom of my boat was about right here. We're talking the bottom of the boat right now has right at six feet of depth underneath the water. It was above my head when we got over there. Just before we got there, my anchor, because I dropped anchor before hoping it would hold me there somewhere in this area. The roof ripped off where them guys came out of, and the anchor was caught in some trees and some other debris on a building, and that's what stopped this in the middle of the road.
ACOSTA: Yes. And I just want to point out because right now we're showing our viewers, that is your sailboat in the middle of the road right there.
[16:25:05]
And the water, the storm surge came up so high that it lifted, basically lifted your sailboat into the middle of the road or just about in the middle of the road here, and it was during that process that you were able to pull these guys in, is that it?
MCGILL: Exactly. And we were over 12 to 14 foot of water above where we're standing right now at that time.
ACOSTA: Yes. And it was over -- it was just about --
MCGILL: Over the building.
ACOSTA: Over the building and it was a two-story building.
MCGILL: It was a two-story building.
ACOSTA: It's gone now.
MCGILL: Yes. But it was there. My anchor chain went over the top the corner of it. It was that high. The water was that high.
ACOSTA: And can you believe that all of you are still standing here alive right now?
MCGILL: They're still thanking me.
ACOSTA: They're still thanking you.
MCGILL: Yes. Being at the right spot at the right time. I lost my boat and lost everything I had. But I saved three guys was worth it.
ACOSTA: Yes.
MCGILL: I don't know. I ain't going to be one of those guys. My kids doing a GoFundMe trying to help me get a boat again. But just happy to be here.
ACOSTA: It's tough. It's tough. When you look around -- I mean, have you ever been through something like this before?
MCGILL: Close. I was about eight miles away from a tornado that took out Spencer, South Dakota. My son who is 38 now watched it come in and it turned two blocks away from him, and wiped out the whole town. Like seven houses I think, seven or 11, I forget the exact number, in the whole town that existed at the end of that. And I was away from it and I watched trees lay over. They were laid over. This was worse. This was worse.
ACOSTA: Doug, Chainsaw, thank you very much. I think they're going to need some chainsaws out here besides yourself for the days to come. But thank you so much for being with us and thanks for what you did and saving these folks here. And folks you didn't even know. They were just strangers.
MCGILL: In the right place at the right time. It just happened.
ACOSTA: Life just happens, and we hear that time and again from people in this area. You know, there for the grace of God go I. And you know, thanks to the kindness of strangers you have people who are standing here walking, talking, breathing, alive today because of folks like Chainsaw here who were able to jump to the rescue and just help people who were in need at that moment.
More storm coverage is coming up. In just a few moments we're going to talk to CNN's Fareed Zakaria about his investigation into the Supreme Court as faith in the nation's highest court drops to an all-time low. That and more from the hurricane zone coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ACOSTA: Tomorrow is the first Monday in October. The day every year that the U.S. Supreme Court begins its new term and this one is historic. Tonight at 8:00 p.m., Fareed Zakaria's latest documentary, "Supreme Power," takes a fascinating look inside the court's previous term. Here's a preview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" (voice-over): May 2nd of this year, an idyllic spring morning. No hint of what is to come that night. The nine justices of the Supreme Court attend a memorial service for one of their own, the late John Paul Stevens. The end of the court's term is just weeks away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A whole host of consequential decisions to come.
ZAKARIA: A bitterly divided country awaits a momentous decision.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "THE LEAD": Is the end of Roe v. Wade?
CROWD: Our court.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our court.
CROWD: Our court.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of law and of life.
ZAKARIA: At the service, the judges look collegial. They call themselves a happy family. Beneath the surface, there is much more to this story.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They not only aren't getting along with each other, they don't like each other.
CROWD: You don't care if people die. You don't care if people die.
ZAKARIA: It is a court at war with itself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's alive (ph).
ZAKARIA: And in the center, Stands Chief justice John Roberts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: John Roberts is someone who is used to women.
ZAKARIA: He's very much a judicial conservative.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not a fan of Roe v. Wade.
ZAKARIA: But the chief is said to be keenly aware that abolishing Roe could tear America apart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He cared more about preserving the legitimacy of the Supreme Court.
ZAKARIA: Which meant saving Roe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Abort the court. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wasn't going to let go.
CROWD: (INAUDIBLE.)
ZAKARIA: Months earlier --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You wicked murderer.
ZAKARIA: -- oral arguments, in the case of Dobbs versus Jackson Women's Health Center.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Abortion --
ZAKARIA: At issue, a Mississippi law that would limit, but not eliminate, the right to an abortion. But five justices want to abolish it all together.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The conservatives to his right wanted to go all out against Roe v. Wade.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fetus has an interest in having a life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought it was stunning.
ZAKARIA: To save Roe, Roberts must change one vote.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was really only one desperate hope. But all came down to Kavanaugh.
ZAKARIA: Justice Brett Kavanaugh.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: And CNN's Fareed Zakaria joins me now. Fareed, the Supreme Court kicks off a new term tomorrow. I mean, the special looks, I mean, just so important. So critical at this juncture right now in this nation's history.
It's hard to imagine this term being as impactful as the last one. But nobody saw the Roe decision coming either. So, I guess it could be fasten your seat belts.
[16:35:00]
ZAKARIA (live): It really could. In fact, one of the experts, Jim, said exactly that.
Look, we have, in front of us, a series of very consequential decisions. They involve things like, you know, same-sex marriage and same-sex rights, in a sense. But probably the one that nobody has heard of is this one relating to whether or not state legislatures have the ability to do whatever they like in presidential elections. That case is up before the court.
And you could understand, Jim, why this is important. We're coming on a presidential election, and there is a new theory that some conservatives have been pushing, was not accepted widely until very recently, that state legislatures can do whatever they want and that the states Supreme Court can't rein it in.
So, let me just play it out for you. Pennsylvania, you know, or let's say -- you know, the election takes place in 2024. Let's say it is Biden versus Trump. Biden wins Pennsylvania. The state legislature, which is Republican, claims fraud and awards the delegates to Trump. It is not clear who could rein them in because the State Supreme Court is normally who would rein the legislature in.
But their -- the Supreme Court of the United States will hear a case in which they may say that the state legislature is supreme. That only the federal courts could do something and who knows what the Supreme Court would do.
So, there is -- there are decisions of that magnitude that really effect the core of American democracy. And they're all --
ACOSTA: Right.
ZAKARIA: -- coming up this term.
ACOSTA: Those are the kinds of scenarios where, you know, people will say, critics will say obviously, that that is where democracy, American democracy, just comes completely unraveled.
And, Fareed, confidence in the Supreme Court has plummeted in the -- in the past few years. Only 47 percent of Americans polled say they trust the Supreme Court. A 20 percent drop from 2020. That is pretty staggering.
Meanwhile, just last week, Justice Alito told "The Wall Street Journal" that everyone is welcome to criticize and disagree with the Supreme Court. But added that, quote, "saying or implying that the court becoming an illegitimate institution or questioning our integrity cross an important line." What do you make of that comment?
ZAKARIA: Well, legitimacy is earned. And the point that I think, in many ways, informs and inspired this special that I did, is that, as you point out, that confidence in the trust in the court -- that trust in the court has been plummeting. It is now down.
There was a Gallup Poll in which 75 percent of Americans, three quarters of Americans, said they do not have strong confidence in the Supreme Court. So, the question about the court's legitimacy is out there. That is how the public feels.
Now, why is it happening? I don't think it's happening because a bunch of journalists are questioning. It's happening because the court is behaving in extraordinarily radical, new ways, overturning 50-year precedents like Roe v. Wade, overturning a 110-year-old law -- the New York gun control law.
So, this court has decided to act in ways that are very unusual, overturning decades-long rights and precedents. That's what is unsettled people and that's what's making people wonder whether the court is acting in a legal fashion or in a political fashion. That is the heart of the -- of the -- of the reason why the court's legitimacy is in question.
It -- we're just -- we're just reporting the reality of those poll numbers and those protests and demonstrations that you're seeing all over the country.
ACOSTA: Right. I mean, he's bristling at the criticism but the criticism is there. And it's coming from the American people.
Fareed, I want to ask you about Russia. Because you just have had one- on-one interview with the defense secretary, Lloyd Austin. And you asked him about Vladimir Putin's nuclear threats. And let's listen to what the Defense secretary told you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LLOYD AUSTIN, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Again, it's an illegal claim. It's an irresponsible statement. These are -- this nuclear saber rattling is not the kind of thing that we would expect to hear from leaders of large countries with capability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Fareed, I thought those were some pretty interesting comments. What did -- what did you make of those comments?
ZAKARIA: I think that, right now, the U.S. government and Secretary Austin was reflecting this. It does not think that there is any imminent danger that Putin is going to use nuclear weapons. They think he's, first, going to try this mobilization strategy, 300,000 new troops, see how that goes. If he can regain the initiative that way, I think that's his preferred course of action.
[16:40:04]
ZAKARIA: But it is clear, just from what he's saying, that if that doesn't work -- if he is cornered, if he is backed into a situation where it is humiliation and total defeat in Ukraine, he might resort to some use of nuclear weapons. Probably tactical nuclear weapons. And this is what the United States government is now actively thinking about. I think they are planning some kind of fairly substantial, obviously, response.
But I don't think it will be a nuclear response. I think the message the United States would like to send is, Putin might act irresponsibly, the United States will act responsibly. But it would be a devastating response. It would -- my guess is that they are planning something that would effectively mean the end of the Russian army in Ukraine.
ACOSTA: Fascinating. And scary to think about it.
All right, Fareed Zakaria, thank you so much. Great talking to you, as always. We appreciate it. And a reminder to tune in tonight for Fareed's special on the Supreme Court. It's highly critical, supremely critical you might say. "Supreme Power" begins at 8:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. And we'll be right back.
[16:41:20]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ACOSTA: And we are live back in Fort Myers, Florida, reporting on the aftermath of Hurricane Ian. I want to quickly go to my colleague, Nadia Romero, who is also covering the aftermath. She is with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis right now, talking to him about the response here to the hurricane. Let's go to her now.
NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: -- Lee County. Why do you stand behind Lee County's decision to not have that mandatory evacuation until the day before the storm?
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FLORIDA: Well, did you -- where was your industry station when the storm hit? Were you guys in Lee County? No, you were in Tampa. So, that's -- yes, they were following the weather track and they had to make decisions based on that. But, you know, 72 hours. They weren't even in the cone. 48 hours, they were on the periphery. So, you've got to make the decisions the best you can.
I will say, you know, they delivered the message to people. They had shelters open. You know, everybody had adequate opportunity to at least get to a shelter within the county. But, you know, a lot of the residents did not -- did not want to do that. I think probably for various reasons. Some people just don't want to leave their home, period. They're island people or whatever.
But I think part of it was so much attention was paid to Tampa, that I think a lot of them probably thought that they wouldn't get the worst of it. So, you know, they -- but, you know, they didn't. And I think it's easy to second-guess them. But they were ready for the whole time and made that call when there was justifiable to do so.
ROMERO: Some of their neighboring counties did have mandatory evacuations before Tuesday.
DESANTIS: Well, right, but our neighboring -- I mean, if you look at, like, Tuesday morning. They had moved the track down. Models started showing it going to, like, Sarasota. You know, so that's -- so they did that. I was in Sarasota that day with them, when they were expanding some of their evacuations. You know, Charlotte, I think did the same thing, either Monday night or Tuesday morning.
So, you know, but don't forget. Sunday, 11:00 a.m. advisory. It was going to go to Taylor County in North Florida. And so, you know, that -- at some point, you've got to look to see, kind of, where this thing is going. So, yes, no, I mean, I think it -- I think that it's easy to say, in hindsight. You know, we had most of our supplies stationed in the Tampa Bay area. As that track moved, we shifted our response further south as well. Now, we said there would be impacts for sure. And even when it was going to hit North Florida, it's such a big storm. There was going to be impacts in Southwest Florida as well. But the difference between impacts and having the eye go there is much different. And, for most of Sunday-Monday and even into Tuesday, it was 100-150 miles away from them.
ROMERO: Is that one of the things you'll be reviewing, once we get out of the aftermath? People get their power back on. Looking at those evacuation orders. From what we've reviewed, they should have had that mandatory evacuation order sooner.
DESANTIS: Well, but, you know, the issue though is also that there were a lot of -- you know, they informed people and most people did not want to do it. I mean, that's just -- that just the reality. So, you know, you're in a situation. Are you going to grab somebody out of their home that doesn't want to? I don't think that's the appropriate use of government. I mean, I think that that takes it a little too far.
ROMERO: And we heard from the FEMA administrator today as well who says that anyone, whether you're in Florida or anywhere else, you're living in water, that you should have flood insurance. Do you agree with that?
DESANTIS: Yes, I mean, I think that what happens with homeowners is they'll say, you're in a flood plain. You want a mortgage? You have to get flood insurance. So, they do. But what they will say is if you're in a -- oh, you're not in a floodplain. So, people say, hey, I don't need it. The reality is, particularly in Florida, it's a pretty good idea to get it. Fortunately, usually, it's pretty affordable.
So, I think that will be something that people see. Because you're going to have people who had total losses who would have bought insurance, if they were told they were at risk. But now, you're in a situation where you're seeing floods like nobody has ever seen before. And that's just something people will, I think, internalize and then want to do something about.
ROMERO: There have been some criticisms about those skyrocketing premiums during your term as governor. What more could you have done, for legislature, to keep that affordable for Floridians?
DESANTIS: Well, the -- no, the flood insurance is a federal program. So, that's not ours. That's a separate program. Most of the claims for this are going to be under the National Flood Insurance program. You know, the homeowners insurance are win claims. And the reason why that market's been is for two reasons. One, 15 years ago, they drove all the insurers out, all the big ones out. And then, more recently, with Irma and some of those other storms, you had massive litigation and a lot of scams.
So, we've dialed back some of that. We provided a fund to stabilize. A lot of them would have gone out of business this summer already. But you need to get rid of the scams and the litigation. And I'm willing to do that. The legislature has not been willing thus far, but I'm confident after the election, they will.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor, what is the talk at the state level of taking into account global warming climate change if we rebuild these areas that we see the sea level rise? Are we having those talks at this level right now?
DESANTIS: Well, I think if you guys -- I don't know if you're based in Florida.
[16:50:01]
DESANTIS: But, I mean, I created a program, called Resilient Florida, that we put a billion dollars into over the last two years. And local communities are able to get money that's matched by the state to be able to make improvements and harden some of their infrastructure.
I mean, I think if you look at Southwest Florida, I think it's probably going to be shown that some of what they did has worked. Because I think that the damage could have been much more extensive in some of their underlying infrastructure.
So, I think we're the only state that's ever done that, and that's made a big difference. And, I mean, it's made a big difference and that's available. It's a two-year-old program, so they haven't completed it. But that's a lot of money to be putting in the system.
ROMERO: Governor, we expect to see the death toll rise now. And there are a lot of people who can't still get in contact with their loved ones, especially those who are in some of the barrier islands. What's your message to people, as we see that number go up and up each day?
DESANTIS: Well, look, I mean, I think, you know, this is a -- basically a category-five storm that also had flooding like we've never seen. I mean, if you think of Hurricane Michael, it was like a tornado that went through Northwest Florida, very damaging. But you were in Panama City, you could potentially have lost everything. If you were in Panama City Beach, you pretty much had nothing because it was relatively focused.
This storm, you had that in places like Fort Myers Beach which packed a big punch. But you also had this massive event that's caused flooding throughout the state. And So, it's just a massive impact. And, you know, unfortunately, you know, you have -- you have destruction of homes. You have fatalities. And it's a difficult thing to deal with for sure.
ROMERO: Your message, though, to those people who can't get in contact with their loved ones who are reeling right now on day four.
DESANTIS: Well, so, what -- I mean, what we've done, we're bringing to here. We brought them to Southwest Florida and other parts. Yes, we're bringing the Elon Musk satellite receivers. And so, people will be able to get online at these pods, to be able to let people know that they're OK.
Obviously, you know, we -- the telecom companies are doing what they can. I know they bring in towers and stuff like that. Some of them suffered extensive damages. But I think on the Internet, to be able to come here, get what you need, you will be able to -- if we bring to the pods, you will be able to log on. So, that'll be -- that'll be comfort for a lot of people.
ROMERO: How would you describe your relationship with the Biden administration?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What can we do together to get this thing moving forward?
DESANTIS: Well, look, I don't think you've ever seen a state spring into action like we've seen here. If you look at these pods -- usually, the pods are not set up until 96 hours after the storm leaves. We had pods set up Saturday, when the storm left on Thursday night. We had a lot of stuff pre-staged.
And then, you had all of these private groups that are coming in to help. You have all of these other agencies throughout the state coming in to help. You know, a lot of these agencies, like Southwest Florida, they were all preparing to go help Tampa in St. Pete three -- you know, a week ago, when this stuff -- on Monday, they were making preparations to actually do that.
Well, things change. And so, now, you have people from, like, Tampa. You have people from the panhandle coming down to this part of Florida. And So, I think people have really pulled together. I think that they've done a really good job. I mean, there's a lot of work ahead, obviously. But I think the resilience has been great.
Friday morning, in Cape Coral, which is very close to ground zero where the hurricane hit, you had publics open, Wawa -- I mean, things are springing back. I doubt you would have seen that in some of these other major storms that we've seen over the past 20, 30 years in this country.
And So, I think the spirit is great and I do think people have pulled together well. All right, we're going to head back over to the --
ACOSTA: And that was my colleague, Nadia Romero, speaking with Governor Ron DeSantis there, asking questions about the response to Hurricane Ian. I don't know if Nadia is still with me. Nadia, if you're there, I just want to ask you --
ROMERO: Yes.
ACOSTA: -- what were -- what were your thoughts as you heard there from the governor. Obviously, it sounds like he's very supportive of the decisions that were made, in terms of when these evacuation orders were issued. That residents are, frankly, asking a lot of questions about.
ROMERO: Yes, he seemed frustrated, when I started asking him questions about Lee County and their mandatory evacuation. You can see the governor now, I want you to take a look, as he loads up on a boat here and heads to the other side of Highway 70. That's where he's going to have another press conference. He really came on this side to shake the hands of some National Guards' member and some people here who have been stranded, because of the floodwaters.
But when I asked him about Lee County not having that mandatory evacuation until the day before the storm, he fired back and said, well, where did you think the storm was going to land? And that cone, the eye of the storm, was not set towards Fort Myers and Lee County until later on. And So, he doubled down, again, saying that he stands by what happened in Lee County. And saying that hindsight is 20-20. And we can look at it now and say what should have been done. But he says that he believes they did what they thought was best, based on the track of the storm.
[16:55:04]
ROMERO: Now, we know, from reviewing the documents, that Lee County's own records show that they should have that mandatory evacuation order, or they could have had that as soon as Sunday. So, when I asked the governor about that, he doubled down again and said they did the best that they could. And that he felt like their evacuation order was put in in a timely manner. That is not what we're hearing from others, who are criticizing Lee County.
I followed up and asked him, well, the surrounding counties around Lee County did have mandatory evacuation orders before Tuesday. And the governor said, listen, everyone did the best that they could. The bigger issue here is that people in Florida did not heed those mandatory evacuations. Even when people were told, you need to leave. The storm is coming. They didn't leave. And he said that he didn't want to see the government removing people from their homes. And so, this is simply what happened in this particular case.
ACOSTA: Yes. And I just want to tell our viewers right now that, over my shoulder, the cleanup continues. I just want to show this, because it's happening right now. This pickup truck is pulling this boat out of a pile of wreckage and trying to mount it on top of this trailer. This has just been happening over the last several seconds and it's making a heck of a racket behind us.
But, again, this is just some of the, you know, latest examples of the brute force unleashed by Hurricane Ian. And, of course, it's backed up some traffic here and the cars are now coming through again.
But, Nadia Romero, let me go back to you and ask you a bit more about your interview with Governor DeSantis. Because one of the other questions that you asked, and I thought it was an important one, is what is the message to people in this area who are wondering about relatives, who are wondering about the missing? You know, they're very reluctant to get into these questions about whether or not the number of dead will go higher, and weather we are dealing with a situation right now where there are just missing people unaccounted for. And I -- and I know he talked to you about that. What were your thoughts on that? ROMERO: Yes, Jim, he basically said that, listen, this was a storm of
epic magnitude. Even here in Desoto County here in Arcadia, this is what people are calling historic flooding blocking this highway. And he says that, basically, they're going to door-to-door searching for people. They're trying to get people in contact with their loved ones. And they're trying to get those cell towers up. They're trying to make sure that people can call folks, and let them know that they're OK.
But it wasn't a clear answer as to what I asked him. I said, what would you say to someone grieving right now, because they haven't been able to speak to their loved ones since the storm hit on Wednesday? We're talking day four. So, imagine four days without speaking to your spouse, speaking to a relative, your mother, your kids, your grandparents. And he says, we're working on it. We're working on it. This has been a massive storm, almost a category five. We're getting there.
Well, on day four, with people who don't have power, people who are struggling to have food and water, pampers, basic necessities ,and not being able to use their cells, it is lagging on for many people who are in pain and who are suffering, Jim.
ACOSTA: And you were just mentioning, a few moments ago, that the governor was hopping on a boat to go look at some of the -- these hard-hit areas. Where are those areas that he's heading off to? I guess it's going to be some of these areas where you have to travel by boat now. And we've been emphasizing this to the viewers at home. There are areas of this -- of this region that are just cut off right now, because of all the storm damage. And it sounds like the governor is heading in that direction.
ROMERO: Yes, Jim, I really look at this storm as a two-fold problem. You have the issue where you are, in Fort Myers and Naples, where there's just destruction. And on those barrier islands where people lost everything. And we're seeing the number of dead rise day by day by day.
And then, you have places like where I can in Arcadia, Florida which is kind of in between Sarasota and Fort Myers. And this is low-lying areas, swampy areas. it generally floods here, but not like what we're seeing here on Highway 70.
And So, all of these areas are used to having a bit of flooding. They expect that. But they're not used to being completely cut off from the rest of humanity and society. On this side of the highway is where a lot of people live. There's a mobile home park behind me. If you look over here, that's where the town is. That's where the gas station is and the Wal-Mart. So, that's where the governor is likely going to be headed.
We know that two personnel from FEMA are on -- are here as well. We spoke with a local man who is going to be taking them by boat to go door by door to check on folks. It is a painstakingly slow process as government officials make their way here. And there seems to be a lot of confusion and a lot of disorganization as well -- Jim.
[17:00:00]
ACOSTA: Nadia Romero, thank you so much for that report. We appreciate it. Terrific work, as always.
