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Justice Department Insists Trump Return All Classified Documents; Feds Weigh Charges in Hunter Biden anyway Investigation; Breast Cancer Deaths Decline, But Racial Disparity Persists; New Season of "Stanley Tucci: Searching for Italy" Sunday 9PM ET; Stocks Sink After Hotter-Than-Expected Jobs Report. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired October 07, 2022 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Officials at the Justice Department are not convinced that Donald Trump has returned all of the classified documents taken after leaving the White House. And now they're insisting that the former president give them back. CNN Senior legal analyst Elie Honig is with us now. Elie, if they're not convinced and we're getting this reporting, is it more likely that they know for sure there's still some documents out there?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: It certainly seems that way, Victor. If you actually look at DOJ's filings earlier in this matter, they allude to that. They say one of the reasons we need to get to these documents that the special master is has because we need to determine or confirm whether he still has other documents. Isn't it remarkable though that DOJ still doesn't know whether they have the documents back? I mean, is primarily Donald Trump's fault if he's holding onto them. But DOJ needs to figure this out. And they need to end this one way or another, once and for all.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: But how did they end this? Elie, for 18 months -- for more than 18 months they've been trying to get these classified and now we know some top-secret documents back. They've tried everything from asking nicely to having to send the FBI to his home to retrieve them. What more with they do.

HONIG: You're right, they are in a tough spot. And if we sort of lay out what the menu options are here for DOJ, none of them are great. They can keep asking nicely -- that hasn't worked. They can issue a subpoena -- they tried that that didn't work. They can try to subpoena Donald Trump or somebody for testimony, put him in front of a grand jury under oath and say where are the rest of the documents, you can bet Trump's going to fight that and drag it out. They could do another search warrant. Do they want to cause political waves by doing that? So, DOJ has sort of put itself in a spot by this incremental approach where they have options but none of them are great.

BLACKWELL: Could we see another search?

HONIG: It's possible. I mean, legally there's no reason you can't. So, this happens sometimes. Prosecutors will do one search and then realize, oops, we've got to search somewhere else as well. But politically is DOJ going to have the appetite to do Mar-a-Lago part two, whether in New York City or Bedminster or wherever, I don't know.

CAMEROTA: What's the latest with the investigation and possible charges into Hunter Biden?

HONIG: Well, the reporting that we've seen and CNN has had, as well, is that one of the agents on the case -- meaning we don't know whether it's FBI or IRS, but one of the law enforcement agents in the case believe that there's enough to charge. But it's really important that people understand this. This happens all the time where one of the investigators on a case thinks, well, let's charge it. Ultimately, though, the decision is up to prosecutors.

CAMEROTA: Are you talking about a gun charge? Can just you tell us which one you're talking about now.

HONIG: Well, there's two charges that the reporting is focused on. One is a gun charge. There's this federal law that says no person can possess a firearm if he is an addict. And so, you have to fill out this form saying, I hereby swear I am not an addict. Hunter Biden checked that box during a time when he has now admitted he was an addict. So, prosecutors have to weigh factors here. Is it worth charging that. It is a rarely charged crime. Not never but rarely charged. The other potential crime they are looking at is tax violations. Meaning, he hid some of his income so that he wouldn't have to pay taxes on it and he did it intentionally.

BLACKWELL: And all that's on paper, essentially. If they can prove it.

HONIG: Yes, you have to prove that it wasn't an accident or something that his accountant did, but yes.

BLACKWELL: There's this other element that we are learning through reporting is that the defense attorneys for hunter Biden are now meeting with DOJ attorneys to try to convince them that these charges should not be filed. First, is that typical? Second, what's that tell us about where they are on the timeline of this case?

HONIG: Very typical, nothing wrong, unusual or nefarious about that. It is very common when somebody is a known target or subject of an investigation for the defense lawyers, get on the phone with prosecutors, say, hey, we'd like to give you what we call a pitch.

[15:35:00]

We're going to tell you why it's a bad idea to indict our client. Why you shouldn't. Why you'll lose at trial, that kinds of thing. I've been through many of these. Ultimately, it's up to prosecutors. Usually, this kind of discussion sort of intensifies toward the end when you're getting toward that decision time for the prosecutor's perspective, charge or not charge. That's when the defense lawyer is saying, well, hold on, let me just come in one more time. So, I think we can reads into this that they're close to the decision.

CAMEROTA: If he's charged, could President Biden pardon him? HONIG: Legally, of course, he is the president. I mean, look, if there

were to be a pardon, I think it go down in history with Bill Clinton pardoning his half-brother Roger Clinton. The difference, of course, Roger Clinton's case was long over. This would be an active case. I do think it's worth noting that Joe Biden, to his credit, has taken pains to avoid any appearance of political involvement in this case.

Specifically, when a new president comes in, typically he will replace all 93 U.S. attorneys, nothing wrong with that. That's the way it goes. Joe Biden left two U.S. attorneys in place, John Durham, doing the Durham investigation which seemingly never ends, and David Weiss, the U.S. attorney in Delaware, who has this case because Biden did not want any appearance of political involvement.

BLACKWELL: OK.

CAMEROTA: Really interesting. Elie Honig thank you very much.

HONIG: Thanks.

BLACKWELL: A new study shows that breast cancer death rates have dropped sharply over the last 30 years. But the disparities persist. Why black women are more likely to die from the disease, that's next.

[15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: It's one week into the Supreme Court's new term.

BLACKWELL: And the nine justices today sat down for their new class photo -- well, half stood. The first with the newly sworn in Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson. Justices this term are considering contentious cases that span voting rights and affirmative action in college admissions.

CAMEROTA: Now to this, a new report from the American Cancer Society shows death rates from breast cancer have dropped significantly over the past three decades.

BLACKWELL: And that is great news. But one trend has not improved, the disparities of black women continue to be more likely to die of breast cancer even though fewer black women develop the disease. CNN health reporter Jacqueline Howard has more on this. Explain that -- what can you tell us?

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Yes, Victor, you know, on one hand it's good news, of course, that the overall breast cancer death rate here in the United States has declined by a significant 43 percent. That's from year 1989 to 2020. But then there's also this concerning news that black women are still more likely to die of breast cancer despite having a lower incidence. They're 40 percent more likely to die. Now the reason why this racial disparity exists, there are several factors at play here. But I asked one of the authors of this report from the American Cancer Society, Rebecca Seigel, why this disparity exists. Here's how she answered my question. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REBECCA SEIGEL, SENIOR SCIENTIFIC DIR. OF SURVEILLANCE RESEARCH, AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY: The evidence is consistent that black women receive short shrift in the health care system at every point in the breast cancer care continuum. From lower quality in mammography, to delays between the time of diagnosis and the beginning of treatment, to poor quality treatment when they are diagnosed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD: She went on to say that having equitable access to screening, equitable access to treatment can help reduce this disparity. And when it comings to screening, most women start their regular mammograms around age 40. But of course, it's important to talk to your doctor about what's best for you and also talk to your doctor about your own personal breast cancer risk -- Victor and Alisyn.

BLACKWELL: All right, Jacqueline Howard, thank you.

CAMEROTA: So, President Biden gave a sobering assessment about Russia's looming threat saying the risk of nuclear Armageddon has not been this high since the 1960s. What the White House says today.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Stanley Tucci is back with an all new season of "SEARCHING FOR ITALY."

BLACKWELL: He's continuing his extraordinary journey through the Italian peninsula exploring the people and the places and the cuisine that make each region of the country unique. Here's a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STANLEY TUCCI, HOST, "SEARCHING FOR ITALY" (voice over): In typical Calabrian fashion, my relatives have been up day and night for half a week preparing a feast of some of our favorite dishes. Like this -- stockfish Chita nova (ph) style. This is a Tropiano family dish that is very similar to the baccala in tomato sauce that I grew up with.

TUCCI: And my mother would make this, with -- con baccala, si.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translated text): ... with salted cod. We tend to use stockfish here but we eat salted cod sometimes too salty. Too salty?

TUCCI: Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translated text): Wow, si. It's my home grown tomatoes.

TUCCI: It's so good.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Joining us is the host of "SEARCHING FOR ITALY," Stanley Tucci. Stanley, great to see you. As usual you've made us all hungry. I mean, and jealous. So that was to Calabria, which is your ancestral region. I mean, this is where your grandparents were born, right? And so, tell us about that experience.

TUCCI: It was beautiful to go back. I think particularly going back with my parents. My dad's 92, my mom is 86 and they never thought that they would go back again. But luckily, they were able to come with me.

BLACKWELL: Fantastic to be able to take your parents back with you.

[15:50:00]

50 years later now, what did you learn new this visit about your family, about their story.

TUCCI: Well, obviously there are many more of them than there were 50 years ago. And I think that it's really interesting. Calabria is very interesting because it's still a very poor region. It is a region that most people don't visit, meaning tourists don't go there. And it's still very corrupt, unfortunately. The mafia still has a strong hold. However, that said, it is incredibly beautiful and the people are as generous as the days are long.

CAMEROTA: We saw you there cooking the baccala, which of course is one of the traditional Italian fish. You know, my family had that on the feast of the seven fish on Christmas eve.

TUCCI: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And it I was funny hearing your relatives say too salty. Because it can be. So, what cooking tips --

TUCCI: Oh, yeah.

CAMEROTA: I mean, a classic. What cooking tips did they give you.

TUCCI: They were so interesting because they used things that we don't use in America. That my grandmother didn't use, that my mother doesn't use. Because, you know, they had the availability of American ingredients. And in Italy, it is -- it is more limited.

CAMEROTA: But like what? What did -- what could we glean from your feast? What could we do here?

TUCCI: They stick to, I suppose, it's more traditional. In a way that it would be augmented by my grandmother or my mother with things that were available. But there if you say, oh, they're making a goat dish, and you'll say, well, wouldn't you put a little Rosemary in that or a little white wine. And they go, no. No. That is the way you do it and it is the way it's been done for a thousand years and that is the way do you it. So, they are quite dogmatic, not to a fault, but dogmatic.

BLACKWELL: Well, Stanley, thank you so much for spending a few minutes with us and for everyone at home, be sure to tune in, "STANLEY TUCCI, SEARCHING FOR ITALY," returns with all new episodes Sunday at 9:00 only on CNN.

Stocks are down close to 600 points in the final minutes of trading. We'll check what's behind the losses next.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLACKWELL: Over the years, parts of Louisiana have struggled with storms and with poverty, with crime.

CAMEROTA: This week's CNN hero is getting hundreds of kids in Baton Rouge to pedal beyond that adversity using something every child needs.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inside, let's go, let's go.

DUSTIN LAFONT, FOUNDER, FRONT YARD BIKES (voice over): Our kids in south Louisiana grew up knowing they have to be resilient from day one.

LAFONT: We could probably get you a new stem with a bar that has new grips. Is that what you would like the most? Something like that?

LAFONT (voice over): Our mission is to create safe spaces that empower our kids to learn about their intrinsic worth as they learn to build a bike.

LAFONT: I want you to take your lever and run it around. All the way. There you go. Now we have to insert your tube next.

LAFONT (voice over): Our program is open to any kid of any age to come learn mechanics and build it, earn it. In our space, our students get an opportunity to see themselves as creators and designers, dreamers.

LAFONT: Keep it up. Keep it up. Keep it up.

LAFONT (voice over): It starts to build on this thought of affirming who they are. That they're a wonderful person. But they're a person that makes the world better. That they are beautiful.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: To see Dustin's full story go to CNNheroes.com.

CAMEROTA: OK, now something less pleasant. The Dow is plunging at the moment. It's down 617 points. The September jobs report today was strong enough to reignite some worries that more big interest rate hikes could be on the way.

BLACKWELL: All right, Matt Egan back with us now. Matt, what's going on? MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well U.S. stocks are ending the day near

their worst points of the whole session. The Dow down 600 points, the Nasdaq actually down a lot more on a percentage basis losing almost 4 percent. You know, markets started this week with so much optimism. Stocks soared, it was the best two-day performance in over two years. But all of that has faded aways because of the this jobs report.

You know, the hope had been that maybe the jobs market was slowing down enough to convince the Fed to stop slamming the brakes on the economy with these massive interest rate hikes. But today's report showed that, yes, the jobs market is slowing down, but not by that much. It really does remain hot. And so, the thinking among investors is that the Fed is going to have keep slamming the brakes with the rate hikes.

In fact, investors have marked up their expectations of rate hikes based on today's numbers. And I think what's really important to remember is that Fed policy moves with a lag, it works with a lag. We don't see the real impact for several months and so the concern is that the Fed overdoes it and that they don't realize they've over done it until it's too late.

CAMEROTA: Matt Egan, thank you very much for latest.

One quick programming note for everybody. I hope you'll join me and Laura Coates starting this coming Monday from 10:00 p.m. until midnight we'll do CNN tonight through the midterms. And "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.