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Russian Missile Strikes In Zaporizhzhia Killing 13; Massive Explosion On Kerch Bridge; President Biden And German Chancellor Olaf Scholz Spoke By Phone To Discuss Aid To Ukraine And The Possibility Of Nuclear Attack By Russia; Dr. Anthony Fauci Warns Of New Variant This Winter; President Biden Pardons Federal Offense On Marijuana Possession; GOP Election Deniers, Now Truth Tellers; Formula 1 Driver Max Verstappen Wins In Japan. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 09, 2022 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

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FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The town of Zaporizhzhia very much under fire --

UNKNOWN: -- that's about the other the thing the Russians are good at is attacking civilian infrastructures.

PLEITGEN: Just a day after the Crimean bridge was hit by an explosion.

UNKNOWN: The stakes are very high right now.

UNKNOWN: The United States has to be ready for Putin to use a tactical nuclear weapon.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST (voice-over): And in the U.S., fears of a more dangerous COVID variant on the way this winter. Dr. Anthony Fauci tells us what to expect.

NADIA ROMERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We are in Fort Myers. Finally, people are able to come back, take a look at the damage.

UNKNOWN: I was stunned. This is the kind of thing that is catastrophic.

ROMERO: Mold is starting to go grow and accumulate on everything. This is what makes it so unlivable and unsafe.

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Over the weekend in Iran, we've seen anti- regime protests continue across the country. Another public show of defiance, Iran's state broadcaster appears to have been momentarily hacked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm Pamela Brown in Washington and you are live in the "CNN Newsroom."

Russia's revenge and Ukrainian civilians pay the price. Overnight, Russian missiles rained down on a residential area there of Zaporizhzhia, that's in southeastern Ukraine. At least 13 people are dead and dozens are hospitalized including children. More than 200 rescuers have been combing through the rubble there. They are looking for survivors and more victims.

The Russian attack on the civilian neighborhood comes hours after an apparent truck bomb heavily damaged the bridge that links mainland Russia to Crimea, its annexed territory in the south. So that has created a huge bottleneck there, choking a critical supply route for Putin's war against Ukraine.

And take a look here, these new satellite images, this shows the damage from above. And despite that, Russia says it is resuming some car and train service. CNN's Frederik Pleitgen is in Kyiv with the latest. Fred?

PLEITGEN: Hi there, Pamela. Certainly, some devastating strikes there in the town of Zaporizhzhia. Several residential buildings seem to at least partially have been leveled by those rockets and cruise missiles. Of course, scores of people were killed and wounded in those attacks. And, you know, if we look back at some of the covers that we've been doing over the past couple of days, it's not the first time that Zaporizhzhia has been hit.

In fact, there were already devastating strikes on that city that also leveled residential buildings. Meantime, the Russians are scrambling to try and get the Crimean bridge up and running again. Here's what we're learning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Satellite images taken shortly after the explosion show the Kerch Bridge engulfed in flames and thick black smoke rising into the sky. Russian investigators continue to say the blast was caused when a truck exploded causing part of the roadway to collapse and several train cars on the railway track to also blow up.

While Moscow says the rail line is back up and running, few cars are able to pass what's left of the automobile section of the bridge causing massive traffic disruption.

UNKNOWN (through translation): If there's good weather, we would be transported by ferry to cross the Kerch Strait. We're waiting for the ferry.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Russian authorities say at least three people were killed in the explosion, but it's also a major symbolic and strategic blow to Russian President Vladimir Putin's war effort in Ukraine. Moscow blaming Ukraine for the attack, but so far, no claim of responsibility from Kyiv's leadership.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translation): Today was a good and mostly sunny day in our country. Over most of the territory, it was about 20 degrees celsius and sunny. Unfortunately, it was cloudy in Crimea, although it was still warm. But however, the clouds are, Ukrainians know what to do and they know that our future is sunny.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Ukrainians across the country rejoiced in the news.

UNKNOWN (through translation): Nobody knows how it happened. It doesn't really matter. Everyone waited for it, not just us, the more improved, we even decided to take a walk.

UNKNOWN (through translation): The emotions are very positive. The news is good. We have waited, waited and it happened.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): But Russian forces are still capable of wreaking havoc hitting the major city Zaporizhzhia with cruise missiles late Saturday killing and wounding scores according to Ukrainian officials.

[17:04:58]

After a string of setbacks on the battlefield, the Russians also announcing a new top general in charge of their war in Ukraine.

UNKNOWN (through translation): The Russian defense minister has appointed Army General Sergei Surovikin as commander of the combined group of troops in the area of the special military operation.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): One of the main things the new general will have to deal with, difficult logistics even as Moscow says both road and rail traffic was back up over the Crimean bridge, it's only a trickle of what would normally come across making this vital supply artery another bottleneck impeding Vladimir Putin's war effort in Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(On camera): And Pamela, we've heard from the Kremlin today as well that Vladimir Putin on Monday is going to chair a meeting of Russia's national security council. Now, it's unclear whether or not the attack on the Kerch Bridge is going to be discussed in that meeting. However, we do know that Vladimir Putin has already signed the decree to increase the security of the Kerch Bridge because, of course, it's such an important logistics route for Russia's military. Pamela?

BROWN: Yeah. And it is a prized achievement for Vladimir Putin so there's a psychological aspect to this and a tactical. Frederik Pleitgen, thank you. Let's drill down a bit deeper. Joining us now CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. Okay, so you have Ukraine publicly celebrating this attack on the bridge, but it hasn't officially claimed responsibility. In terms of a strategy and symbolism here, how significant was the targeting of this bridge?

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Pamela, this was usually significant because this bridge connects everything here. So, let's take a look at the map. This is the lower area of Crimea is right here. This is already Russian territory and the bridge is right within this circle right here in the town of Kerch is right there.

So, this bridge is really a master work of engineering, and for that reason, because it connects Russia with Crimea and then into -- goes into Ukraine, allows for people to go into Ukraine. That makes it so much better for the Russians to move their products, move their weapons, move their troops into a warfront. With that gone, it becomes much more difficult.

BROWN: Yeah. And you know, I mentioned that there's a psychological element to this. Will Putin see this as a direct attack on him and his government?

LEIGHTON: Well, yes, because in 2018, he actually opened this bridge. That's him walking to the bridge to drive this truck right on this bridge. And the reason he did this was because he was so proud of this bridge and of its connections that it was able give Russia into Crimea basically it's annexing Crimea for real, physically annexing Crimea into Russia. That's why he did it.

BROWN: We saw Russia apparently retaliate in Zaporizhzhia. Do you anticipate more attacks in civilian areas in the wake of this?

LEIGHTON: Absolutely. And it won't just be Zaporizhzhia. Zaporizhzhia is right here. The city of Zaporizhzhia is actually in Ukrainian hands. Part of the province of Zaporizhzhia is in Russian hands right now, and of course, the nuclear power plant is right here. We can expect the Russians to attack along this front. Potentially they may try to do things in this area as well which the Ukrainians got in the northeast end. Even remotely possible, but even around Kyiv, there's a possibility for something like that to happen.

BROWN: It really is remarkable as we take a step back to look at the progress the Ukrainians have been making. They recaptured more than 900 square miles in the Kherson region. What does that do tactically for them? Does that put more Russian troops within their line for, you know, a range of what, artillery and drones, stuff like that?

LEIGHTON: Absolutely because here you can see, Pamela, right here is the Dnipro River goes right in through this area right here. The town of Kherson is this area right, well, right here. And the Ukrainians have taken this and this area. What the Ukrainians can do is they can cut the Russians off. If they cut them off from this area, that means that these troops that are stationed right there are going to be encircled and potential lost to the Russian war effort.

BROWN: And as Russia becomes more and more mired with this war, there are some experts who say that it is losing the trust, the support of the former Soviet republic. What do you think about that?

LEIGHTON: So, these are the former republics. They are now independents countries that belong to the old Soviet Union. And each one of them has really moved in its own way. One of the key things that has happened is the Chinese have gotten agreements with Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan to build a road and railroad through their territories to avoid Russia.

That was something as part of their Belt-and-Road Initiative and it's something that the Chinese have actually avoided doing because it didn't want to offend the Russians. Now, they don't seem to care about that so, this is a significant development and just one aspect of this. But because the Russians are losing control over these areas, other countries especially China, but even the United States, are trying to gain influence in all of these countries right now.

BROWN: That is really telling, very interesting. Alright Colonel, thanks as always. We appreciate it.

[17:10:03]

LEIGHTON: You bet, Pamela.

BROWN: Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Well, high stakes, high level talks. President Biden spoke today with his German counterpart, Chancellor Olaf Scholz, about the war in Ukraine. One focus, Russia's disruption of the global energy markets. So, lets' go now to the White House and CNN's Arlette Saenz. Arlette, what more are you learning about their conversation?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pamela, President Biden is spending the weekend at his home in Wilmington, Delaware and it's there that he spoke with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz over the phone, one of the United States most key allies when it comes to that Russian war in Ukraine.

The two men talked about that war as well as recent developments regarding the energy market, that's according to the White House, but that call comes as the president's recent comments about the prospects of nuclear Armageddon remain in the spotlight. This morning, National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby said that there is no imminent threat right now of Russia using nuclear weapons, but that the president's comments simply speak to the gravity with which they're viewing the situation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: His comments were not based on new or fresh intelligence or new indications that Mr. Putin has made a decision to use nuclear weapons. And quite frankly, we don't have any indication that he has made that kind of decision.

The president was reflecting was that the stakes are high right now, given what's going on, on the battlefield in Ukraine and given the very irresponsible and reckless comments made by Vladimir Putin in just the last few days. Now, look, he's also said we're not going to be intimidated, neither we nor our allies are going to be intimidated by this. And we're going to continue to provide support and security assistance to Ukraine as is necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SAENZ: And earlier this week, President Biden also used in that fund-

raiser about whether there's an off-ramp for Putin to avoid using nuclear weapons. Kirby was asked about that. He said that there are -- did not elaborate really on any options that the U.S. might be considering, but he said it is ultimately up to Russia to de-escalate and put an end to this war. Clearly, this issue of the war and the possibility of nuclear weapons of top concern to President Biden at this moment.

BROWN: Arlette Saenz, thanks so much for that. And you are in the "CNN Newsroom" on this Sunday.

Up next for you tonight, Dr. Anthony Fauci is here live for a lightning round on all the health issues affecting the U.S. Why he thinks a more dangerous covid variant could emerge this winter.

Also ahead, an emotional return as residents of Fort Myers Beach, Florida is allowed to return home for the first time since Hurricane Ian hit.

And chaos and confusion as the new Formula One racing champion is ground, all the twists and turns for you coming right up. We'll be right back.

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BROWN: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is moving from daily to weekly reporting of COVID-19 line level in aggregate case and death data beginning October 20th. Now, the agency says the shift will allow for additional reporting, flexibility, reduce the reporting burden on states and jurisdictions, and maximize surveillance resources.

But my next guest warns, as winter approaches, now is not the time to let down your guard. Joining us now is Dr. Anthony Fauci, chief medical adviser to President Biden and the director of the National Institutes of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. Welcome Dr. Fauci. We're so glad to have you with us.

ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAK ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: Thank you very much. Thank you for having me, Pam.

BROWN: So of course -- I want to start off talking with you, what I just mentioned. What do you make of the CDC's move amid concern of a new more dangerous variant that could emerge this winter?

FACUI: I don't think that's going to have any negative impact at all. I just think it's a question of how often you are reporting things. We have a pretty good feel for the cadence of how things are evolving. That doesn't take away from the CDC's concern, as my concern, I think there's no space between us at all about the fact that we really have to pay attention to making sure we get as many people in their updated vaccine, which is a bivalent that is specifically directed towards the dominant isolate right now in our society. We still got to do much, much better as we enter into the late fall

and early winter. We only have 68 percent of our population vaccinated and only one half of those is up to date on their boosters. So, we have a way to go particularly as we enter the winter, which would be complicated by the influenza season. So, there's no time, Pam, to let down our guard right now, for certain.

BROWN: To dig a little bit deeper into that, according to "The Washington Post" only 4 percent of eligible Americans are fully boosted. We're still seeing several hundred people dying daily from COVID. You have warned of a twindemic, of a COVID surge and a flu surge. So, if you could tell us a little bit more about what you're anticipating for the fall and the winter? What do you think it's going to look like compared to the last few fall and winters?

FAUCI: Well, I hope we don't get the magnitude of the surges that we've seen in a previous, for example, the previous winter. We don't feel, I don't feel, certainly, that 300 to 400 deaths per day is an acceptable number. So, as we get into the colder months where any respiratory disease, COVID or anything else, always has the risk of an uptick as you enter into the late fall/winter months.

The way you counter that is by doing what the public health measures are. Getting vaccinated and getting boostered. Influenza is a problem.

[17:19:57]

The Australians who have their flu season directly opposite ours and what our winter is, is their summer and vice versa. They had a particularly bad flu season this year, which doesn't necessarily guarantee we will have a bad one, but it is strongly suggestive that we very well may have severe flu season, again another indication why we should get our flu vaccine and we should get the updated BA.5 bivalent COVID vaccine.

There's no reason not to do that. If you look at the numbers, Pam, of the severity of disease with hospitalization and deaths when you compare vaccinated to unvaccinated, or even vaccinated without a boost compared to vaccinated with the boost, the vaccinated with the updated boost do much, much better when it comes to hospitalizations and deaths.

BROWN: I'm curious, we talk a lot about the vaccines, what about when it comes to masking. Do you still wear a mask? What is your advice on masking at this stage?

FAUCI: It depends on where you are in the region that you happen to be in and the level of viral dynamics in that region. The CDC, as you know, on their website has that color code of the level of activity. And when it's high, when I'm in an indoor setting and I go to a place where the level of virus activity is high, I wear a mask. If I'm outdoors, I don't wear a mask.

But if I'm in a place where either at a higher level or I'm not sure of what the dynamics of the virus is, I wear a mask. So, it isn't as if I wear a mask all the time or never, it depends on where we are in a particular level of viral dynamics.

BROWN: I want to talk about recurring infections. I've had recurring infections. Both times I've had COVID were not fun. Symptomatic both times. There is an article on "The New Yorker" that says COVID is mutating even faster than the world's dominant flu strain. And it quotes and epidemiologist at the University of Michigan who says, "My best guess would be, and this is just a guess, that symptomatic COVID infections will eventually occur every five years or so."

By that, that means many of us could get COVID 10 times or more in our lifetimes. Do you think that's an accurate guess, projection? What do you think?

FAUCI: I think he said it or she said it very well. It's really just a guess, and you really can't tell. I mean, obviously, if you ask some questions that I can give you a more firm answer on, Pam, we're not going to eradicate this virus. We've only eradicated one virus in the history of public health, and that's smallpox, and that virus doesn't change very well and you get immunity that lasts durably for decades, if not, a lifetime.

We likely won't even eliminate it. It will be around at a low level because we've only eliminated a few viruses likes measles and polio because those viruses, when you get infected or you get vaccinated, the immunity lasts for decades and sometimes a lifetime. And the virus isn't the kind of virus that drifts or changes.

With the virus that we're unfortunately dealing with, A, it does good variants. We have enough history over the last two and a half years to know that you get successive variants as the immune system pressures the virus.

And secondly, the durability of protection, at least with the vaccines that we have now, which are good, but the durability of infection does not -- protection, does not last. So, I think if you're saying, are we done with COVID? The answer is going to be no. We may deal with it at a much, much lower level than we're dealing with it right now, which is what I would accept as being something that would be okay as long as we get to a much lower level than we are right now. As per what I said a moment ago, I don't believe that 400 deaths a day is an acceptable level.

BROWN: Right. Just to drill down a little bit more, how many, I mean, on average, and I know it's hard to be precise on this, but on average, how often do you expect us to get reinfected, right? I mean, you just said -- what I just heard from you is that this thing isn't going away any time soon.

It's going to keep mutating. So, you know, this person said likely, you know, symptomatic COVID every five years. What is your projection and what are the long-term concerns for this COVID reinfections? I mean, what does it do to your body long term, your immune system?

FAUCI: Well, that's -- not necessarily the immune system, what it does to the immune system, Pam, but there is a phenomenon that we don't see with many, many other viruses. [17:24:57]

In fact, we haven't seen it to this extent with any virus, and this issue of the syndrome of long COVID, that when you get infected, even if you have a mild to moderate infection, there's a percentage of people ranging from anywhere from 5 to up to 20 percent who have the persistence of symptomatology that is not fully explainable by a definable pathogenic process.

By that, I mean, we don't determine anything specifically wrong, but people have profound fatigue, they have sleep disturbances, they have things called brain fog, which means they have difficulty focusing or concentrating. So, if you get infected every two or three years, that's still something we're concerned about until we learn more about long COVID.

Coronaviruses, which have been with us forever, the common cold coronaviruses, if COVID acts like that, that we get reinfected with coronaviruses every few years, so to say that we can expect, unless we get a vaccine and people utilize the vaccine, that's highly protective, it very well that we may over a period of years, have repetitive infections with COVID virus, which is, as I mentioned, when you're dealing with long COVID, something we have to be concerned about.

BROWN: Yeah, that's the risk. I know when I had -- when I was reinfected last August, I felt horrible, but also, I was so worried. I thought, okay, well, know, am I going to get long COVID? You don't know, right, until you kind of go through the steps and then you recover hopefully. And it's kind of a relief, but then the worry stays, right, because you're probably going to get re-infected down the road and that ups the risk.

FAUCI: Exactly.

BROWN: I want to ask you before we let you go, Dr. Fauci, about misinformation and how it is still complicating the picture. For example, Twitter took down and then restored this tweet from Florida surgeon general saying, quote, "Today we released an analysis on COVID-19 mRNA vaccines the public needs to be aware of. This analysis showed an increased risk of cardiac-related death among men 18-39. Florida will not be silent on the truth." What do you make of that, Dr. Fauci?

FAUCI: Well, there's a lot of conflicting evidence in the opposite of that, that that's not the case. I mean, someone can make a statement of that. I would like to see besides the statement the study, the well-done study that actually shows that.

But in a more broad generic way, Pam, one of the real problems we have is that forgetting that statement and just think about in general that there's enough misinformation and disinformation particularly on the social media that makes it very difficult to capture the public's attention about what the reality is particularly when you're dealing with a transforming pandemic the way we're dealing with right now. The enemy of public health, when you're dealing with a pandemic is

misinformation and disinformation. And unfortunately, we have plenty of that.

BROWN: Yeah, we still do. And it's cost lives, no doubt. Dr. Anthony Fauci, thank you so much for coming on the show. This is my first time having the opportunity to talk with you and I hope you'll come back as well.

FAUCI: Thank you, Pam. It's good to be with you.

BROWN: Well, you are in the "CNN Newsroom." Up next, why the president's commitment to pardoning people from marijuana possession brings with it a major logistical challenge. A prison minister from Georgia tells me what's up stake. And that conversation coming up, up next.

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[17:30:00]

BROWN: President Biden took a major step this week to start the process of decriminalizing marijuana, fulfilling a campaign promise. The president pardoned all prior federal offenses for simple marijuana possession, but not drug dealers. Though no one is currently serving federal prison time for only simple marijuana position -- possession, rather, there are thousands who have been charged with that crime and have it on their record.

Pastor Tony Lowden joins us now. He served in the Maranatha Baptist Church in Plains, Georgia where former President Jimmy Carter is a member. He is also the former White House executive director of the Federal Interagency Council on Crime Prevention and Improving Reentry.

Pastor Lowden, thanks for coming on. I know this subject is very close to you. You have served as a prison minister in Georgia. What is the significance of this move? I know I mentioned none of these people are actually in prison, but they are still going to have to reintegrate with these pardons. Tell us a little bit about that.

TONY LOWDEN, FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, FEDERAL INTERAGENCY COUNCIL ON CRIME PREVENTION: Absolutely, Pam, because a lot of times when we release people from prison or if they have a felony on their record or they are on probation. We do not fully look at ways to try to reintegrate them back into society.

If a person has a felony, a drug felony on their record and they come from public housing, nine times out of 10, they no longer can go back into public housing. HUD refuses to allow them have housing if you have a drug offense on your record.

Sometimes a lot of people who have those felonies, drug felonies, they cannot get jobs. We got to look at ways to whole listing approach especially when we have this great resonation of people not wanting to work. To look at ways to being able to have people get back into our workforce, come out of the shadows and work, and a full reintegration model.

[17:35:01]

And that's why I'm glad I'm working for a company called ViaPath. We are joined not only inside of prisons as well as on the outside. When you have a felony, you got to ask the question, how do I feed my family? A felony should not push you into a lifetime of poverty because you have a simple marijuana felony on your record. We should look at ways to reintegrating them back into society.

BROWN: So those eligible for the pardons would receive a certificate showing that they had been officially forgiven for their crime. Do you think that's enough?

LOWDEN: No. I think we got to take it another step further. I think we also have to look at ways of getting all the courts to look at ways to expunge in their records because nine times out 10 they still may show up. We got to get the companies involved to saying I'm willing to hire individuals who have had a drug offense on their record.

We got to look at ways of being able to address what we call all the collateral consequences that takes place with that. More importantly, we got to look at ways of saying are we really ready for reintegration? I think I said to you during the break about our veterans who are very important to me.

They come off from the longest war and they self-medicate. They end up getting a felony and they end up living on our streets because they can't get a job or they end up coming into our prisons because there are just as involved. We have to look at ways to having a wholistic approach -- 78 million people in America has felonies and a lot of them are drug felonies.

We got to look at ways of saying how do we bring those numbers down? How do we get all 17 federal agencies to work together as well as the local agencies to reintegrate people back in society. We felt that when we had the pandemic, when we couldn't get people to work and we needed people to work to keep our economy going.

And that's why at ViaPath we came up with a website that's called a reintegration website where even after you're out of prison, you can log on to our website and take all the courses that you have while you were incarcerated. No interruptions or services.

Just because we let a person out of prison or we get a person off of probation, they still need to reintegrate back in our society, and that's what we should do. If we don't do that, we have to ask ourself, are we truly a country that want to give people second chances.

BROWN: Pastor Tony Lowden, really great to have you on tonight. Thank you.

LOWDEN: Pam, thank you so much.

BROWN: Well, 30 days until the midterms. It looks like some Republicans have now seen the light on the real outcome of the 2020 election. Why the sudden change of heart? "For the Record" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:40:00]

BROWN: Well, since Joe Biden was inaugurated 46th president of the United States, false claims of the election being stolen from former President Trump haven't stopped. Now, we're about one month away from the midterms. And "For the Record," many Republican candidates are still saying the election was stolen or the votes fraudulent.

But there has been a shift in recent weeks. Two GOP candidates who were election deniers have transformed into truth tellers. Blake Masters who's running in a crucial Arizona Senate race and Don Bolduc, a U.S. Army retired Brigadier General, running for Senate in New Hampshire. Here's what Masters said at a debate last Thursday against Democrat Mark Kelly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Is Joe Biden the legitimately elected president of the United States?

BLAKE MASTERS, ARIZONA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: Joe Biden is absolutely the president. I mean, my gosh, have you seen the gas prices lately?

UNKNOWN: Legitimately --

MASTERS: There's no doubt -- I'm not trying to trick you. He's duly sworn and certified. He's the legitimate president. He's in the White House, and unfortunately, for all of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So that is a complete turnaround from a campaign ad last year in which he said, quote, "I think Trump won in 2020." Don't forget, just two months ago, he also said this, "That the 2020 election was a rotten mess -- if we had had a free and fair election, President Trump would be sitting in the Oval Office today."

Meantime, Don Bolduc during an August New Hampshire debate said the 2020 election was stolen, but then last month after Bolduc won the Republican primary mostly due to his MAGA politics and Trump supporters, he reversed his position on Fox News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON BOLDUC, NEW HAMPSHIRE SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: I signed a letter with 120 other generals and admirals saying that Trump won the election and damn it, I stand by my (inaudible).

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: Do you stand by that today?

BOLDUC: So, you know, we -- we -- we, you know, live and learn, right? And I've done a lot of research on this and I've spent the past couple weeks talking to Granite Staters all over the state from, you know, every party. And I have come to the conclusion and I want to be definitive on this. The election was not stolen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Last Tuesday Bolduc also told "The Washington Post" quote, "Biden is the legal president of the United States." Now, for the record, "The Washington Post" points out a majority of GOP nominees, a whopping 299 in total deny the 2020 election results. It remains to be seen whether telling the truth will actually affect the voters they're trying to influence before they cast their ballots on November 8th.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:45:00]

BROWN: Tonight after "Newsroom," it's an all-new "Who's Talking to Chris Wallace?" and I talked to him and here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Well, thank you so much for joining us again, Chris. Big question, as always, who is talking to Chris Wallace this weekend.

CHRIS WALLACE, HOST, WHO'S TALKINHG TO CHRIS WALLACE: Well, we got a wide variety of guests. First of all, the head of the CDC, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the latest on COVID. We also talked to Mark Cuban of "Shark Tank" and Dallas Mavericks fame. And then Clive Davis, who is the legendary record producer who discovered everybody from Janis Joplin to Whitney Houston.

BROWN: That is a stellar lineup. Mark Cuban is an interesting one. Let's listen to what he said and talk on the other end of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: I hear, and please tell me as a "Shark Tank" fan that this is not true, that you are so committed to cost plus drugs that you are considering leaving the show?

MARK CUBAN, AMERICAN BILLIONAIRE ENTREPRENEUR: Yeah. And it's not so much cost plus drugs as it is having a daughter who just went away to college.

[17:49:57] It used to be when they were all in high school and went to the same two schools, all of our schedules could be worked out together that it was more a question of wanting to spend more time with my family.

But they came -- the "Shark Tank" came after our lives I've showed the other day, that made me promise that I would come back for at least one more season. After that, I don't know.

WALLACE: Is it as cool and as fun being Mark Cuban as it seems?

CUBAN: Ninety-nine percent of the time, yeah. The only downside is some of the pressure it puts on my kids being my, you know, being my child. It's sometimes not fair to them because they're already labeled as, you know, who I am or as opposed to who they are. The positive side is everything else, right? I mean, oh, my goodness. Just being able to wake up every day knowing I can have an impact. Being able to wake up every day knowing that I -- there's things that I can enjoy that I never dreamed I'd be able to do. I mean, look, I'm the luckiest son of a gun on the planet, you know. When I die, I want to come back as me. Let's put it that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: I want to maybe be Mark Cuban. My goodness. And you know, it's good that he has that gratitude and knows how fortunate he has been. He's had an incredible life. Interesting that he said, you know, one more season, we'll see after that. I'm wondering, Chris, does he get along with all the other sharks?

WALLACE: Yeah, he says he does and I asked him specifically. Look, I'm a "Shark tank" fan. I don't know if you are, but I asked about Mr. Wonderful, Kevin O'Leary, who can be a little prickly at times. He says, no, we really get along well. On the other hand, we'll show you on "Who's Talking" the one time he got into a big fight with a guest shark. He has never spoken to that guest shark again.

BROWN: I can't wait to hear about this. I'll be watching. I do like to watch "Shark Tank." I don't watch it consistently. But I watch it enough to know that I enjoy it and I like Mark Cuban a lot. So, I'm looking forward to that interview. You also talked with the CDC director, Rochelle Walensky, and that picked my interest because she is another example of a scientific figure who became politicized. So, let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Does it hurt your feeling when people, usually of the other party than the president don't ascribe good faith to your references?

ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: Yes. I mean, I would prefer they saw good faith in my efforts, certainly, but it's also the case that there's a lot of noise out there and it's very hard for me to do my job if I listen to all of the knocks because what I really need to do is focus on the good health of this country and making really important decisions in this time. So, yeah, of course it hurts.

WALLACE: How troubled are you that so often -- and this was certainly true of AIDS and it's been true now of COVID, that our politics gets mixed up with public health?

WALENSKY: Oh, it's so frustrating. You know, as you try and do the work to deliver prevention, good health measures to people, it is just frustrating that the politics is in the mix.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: You know, Pam, it is so interesting. I'm a member of the polio vaccine, the soft vaccine generation '50s, who got this vaccine and it protected us from getting this dread disease polio. And we and our parents were just grateful that there was this medicine out there that could protect us. And the idea -- and it's so true today whether it's vaccines or masks or distancing or whatever, that it's gotten all roiled up in our politics. It's pretty surprising.

BROWN: It's surprising and it's so unfortunate. It has cost lives, countless lives. Looking forward to seeing your interviews coming up. Chris Wallace, thank you.

WALLACE: Thank you, Pam.

BROWN: And "Who's Talking to Chris Wallace?" airs tonight at 7:00 eastern right after "Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:55:00]

BROWN: Formula 1 race driver Max Verstappen can celebrate tonight as a back-to-back world champion, but he had to steer through a lot of chaos before clinching this year's title. CNN Sports' Patrick Snell explains what happened.

PATRICK SNELL, CNN SPORTS HOST: Well, Pam, Red Bull superstar Max Verstappen celebrating his second consecutive Formula 1 driver's title, but only after the most extraordinary chain of events at a wet, soggy Suzuka. Circumstances confusing as this all played out a rain shortened Japanese Grand Prix.

The 25-year-old Dutchman dominating in the wet conditions and winning the race ahead of ultimately his Mexican teammate, Sergio Perez and duly sealing the title with still four races to go this season. But that was just the start of all the controversial fallout. It was Ferrari's star, Charles Leclerc that who initially crossed the line in second place, but he was later penalized after it was deemed he cut the track and eked out an advantage on the very last lap.

Incredible scene just Verstappen celebrates the win while not initially realizing he won the championship, following confusion that all stemmed for how many points would be awarded in a race that did not complete the full distance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAX VERSTAPPEN, FORMULA 1 DRIVER: I'm not sure.

UNKNOWN: You are, yes you are.

VERSTAPPEN: If I'm not, you know. You sure?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:59:58]

SNELL: So, Verstappen does get to celebrate after all that. F1 rules do state that limited points are awarded when a race is red flagged and cannot continue.