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Putin Unleashes Missile Barrage, Kills At least 11 In Ukraine; N. Korea: Missile Tests Were Simulated Nuke Attack On South; Key Former WH Aide To Cooperate In Georgia Election Probe; NYC Set To Open Migrant Humanitarian Center On Randall's Island. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired October 10, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That will cause the U.S. economy to begin losing 10s of thousands of jobs a month beginning early next year to the tune of 175,000 job losses a month in the first part of next year. But the bank does see that, if want to see a bright spot that is, the bank thinks that the recession would be mild. But I'll to you what, any mild recession - we don't want to see any recession, but mild would means it would be fewer job losses, Victor.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Hearing some good news about holiday discounts?

KOSIK: You want a holiday discount, Victor?

BLACKWELL: Yes.

KOSIK: Well, you know what, then you better start shopping soon, because - I don't know if you've noticed - but retail chains, they're pulling out all the stops already. Christmas trees are on the floor at Costcos at Lowe's. And you're seeing target offering their earliest access ever to holiday deals, beginning October 6th.

Did you notice, Amazon is hosting a new Prime Day sales event on October 11th and 12th? So we're getting this holiday creep. It's nothing new, but what we're seeing happen is retailers, they're trying to jumpstart holidays to get consumers kind of in the groove early to start buying, kind of teeing them up because they know that consumers are going to be getting hit with higher prices. So they want to get retailers in the mood to start shelling out their money earlier, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Three weeks ahead of Halloween and folks are already buying Christmas trees. All right. Alison, thank you.

Thank you for staying with me. I'm Victor Blackwell and welcome to the CNN NEWSROOM.

President Biden and world leaders aren't condemning Russia's massive missile strikes against Ukraine that targeted civilians.

Wow. Overnight, Russia unleashed a barrage of missiles at Kyiv. Multiple other cities too across the country, knocking out critical infrastructure, at least 11 people are dead, dozens more injured. Now, today Putin is boasting about the attack and he vows that there will be more. He says this blitz is retaliation for the weekend attack on a key bridge that links annexed Crimea to Russia.

Now, President Biden says Russia's attacks demonstrate the utter brutality of Putin's illegal war.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen is with us now from Kyiv, one of those cities hit by the attacks. Fred, what's the situation there?

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a pretty tense situation here in Kyiv, Victor, and has no doubt in many other cities across Ukraine. We are about one hour anyway away from a curfew that goes into effect here every night.

But I can tell you one thing, the streets here on the Ukrainian capital after those missile attacks took place in the pretty early morning hours during rush hour traffic, the streets were really empty throughout the better part of the day, even though it was quite a beautiful day actually here in Kyiv.

And Kyiv's Mayor, Vitali Klitschko, he urged people to stay indoors. He urged people not to come to work and he urged people who are living outside of Kyiv and sort of commute here into the city to also not do that if they don't have to today, really a difficult situation.

I was actually out in the city, as a lot of these missile barrages were taking place. And I can tell you one thing, it certainly wasn't a nice feeling to have those booms go off as we were reporting from the scene of one of the missile strikes that took place. And one of those places that we were at, it was actually an intersection that was hit, again, during rush hour. Five people were killed in that place alone.

And certainly, it was a scene of utter carnage. There were a lot of destroyed cars. There were rescue crews trying to save people and dead bodies that were being - taken away by those rescue crews. So definitely a tough day for the Ukrainian capital, but I was also, Victor, able to speak with some senior Ukrainian officials today and all of them said that none of this would derail the gains that they've been making on the battlefield over the past couple of months.

And they, on the contrary, said that they feel even more emboldened than before to defend Ukraine from the Russian military, that obviously is - first of all in the south and the east of the country, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Important point. Fred Pleitgen for us there in Kyiv, thank you.

Michael Bociurkiw is a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council. And joins us from Odessa, Ukraine, retired Army Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt is also with us. He's a former Assistant Secretary of State for Political Military Affairs. Gentlemen, welcome to you.

Michael, let me start with you. Once there was that explosion on the Kerch Strait Bridge, was this expected? I mean, is this a surprise at all?

MICHAEL BOCIURKIW, SENIOR FELLOW AT THE ATLANTIC COUNCIL: Good to be back with you. Yes, I think so. As I stated in my CNN opinion piece today, I think despite all the jubilation that took place here in Odessa and elsewhere in Ukraine, after that explosion, deep down people knew that there would be retaliation.

[15:05:03]

That's just the Russian playbook. And I got to say, I mean, we all watch the images today. It's hard to believe that we are in 2022, the capital of a thriving democracy, as well as many other cities in Ukraine are seeing such bloodshed, striking during the middle of the commuter hour in many, many cities.

I got to tell you, echoing what Fred was saying, I talked to a lot of my Ukrainian friends today and all this did was just embolden them. They said we're - it's nothing like the beginning of the war when we were a little bit afraid. Now they're saying, we have to press to the end.

And indeed, one Ukrainian official at least said recently, let's go for Crimea, by the end of the year, we at least will have to have entered Crimea. So I think it's a huge miscalculation on the part of the Kremlin.

BLACKWELL: Let me come to you, General, on the embarrassment, the practical loss of this bridge and why even after the counter offensive losses, territorially didn't get this type of response, but the Kerch Strait Bridge did.

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Yes. Well, I think Michael has it right that this is more of a personal insult to Vladimir Putin than battlefield losses. Unfortunately, I think it's taking us into a new campaign. That could be President Putin's next playbook, as Michael said. And that's going from a tactical bombing campaign for battlefield targets moving to a strategic bombing campaign against civilians, infrastructure and government centers.

BLACKWELL: Does he have the equipment, the smart bombs, those guided missiles to be able to pull that off?

KIMMITT: Well, strategic bombing doesn't necessarily require that. What it requires is a lot of heavy bombers, a lot of dumb bombs. Again, strategic bombing is more of a terrorist operation than a military operation. So to a great extent, dumb bombs, unguided bombs, are more effective in terrorizing the civilian population than the precise weapons that we've been seeing in this tactical battlefield so far.

BLACKWELL: You write about this, Michael, in your piece, the terror element of this that it's not just that he hit the cities. He hit Lviv, he hit Kyiv where businesses had opened. And I can't say life got back to normal, but they were, as you write, roaring back. What's the significance?

BOCIURKIW: Yes. And not only that, Victor. Also today, it was kind of hitting the headlines, three of those missiles violated Moldova air space, really causing panic there. The Russian ambassador was summoned and they actually have a functioning civilian air space, a functioning airport.

Imagine if there had been a collision there, it just goes to show the carelessness. But yes, these missiles struck far into western Ukraine, near NATO's eastern flank. And I think, I put forward a number of ideas in that op-ed piece, but among them is to put more restrictions on Russian travelers, but also immediately to lift those U.S. restrictions on the range of the HIMARS missiles, and also to immediately deploy more air defense systems.

And if I can, Victor, I also got to say, my government of Canada, I'm hoping will also grow some spine aside from things like expelling Russian diplomats who engage almost every day in misinformation. The Europeans have expelled 20, but also training Ukrainian servicemen not in the United Kingdom far away, but either closer to the border with Ukraine or inside Ukraine.

There is no time to waste in pushing back Russian forces, so that training needs to be done a lot closer to the battlefield.

BLACKWELL: General, what do you think about we just heard from Michael, specifically, adding those longer range missiles to the arsenal provided to the Ukrainians?

KIMMITT: Well, I think what we're trying to do is fight terrorism with terrorism, that would be part of an escalatory cycle that would be going outside of the borders of Ukraine. I think that the belief of the NATO governments is that if we start attacking Mother Russia, Russia proper, that in fact, we're declaring war on Russia itself and hitting targets inside of Russia, such as cities and military encampments would cause the war to spiral to a degree that at this point may start to split NATO unity as some of the countries that are a little wobbly right now would start to pull back.

Now, I certainly understand the logic, the military logic at a tactical level, but again, I think we've got to differentiate the tactical from the strategic.

BLACKWELL: Michael, you're in Odessa, which is not one of the cities hit, but the psychological element here of that they hit Lviv, they hit Kyiv, they hit Dnipro, what you're seeing if there's any difference on the streets there where you are?

[15:10:01]

BOCIURKIW: Yes. Actually, we were lucky today because there were missiles and those Iranian kamikaze drones sent this way. Fortunately, Ukrainian forces managed to shoot them down. But yes, there's a market difference compared to 24 hours ago when the streets were blooming and thriving.

I talked to some business owners and it's so sad, Victor, they're giving all they got. They have to get their businesses restarting, some are even renovating. And after COVID and after the war, a lot of businesses here are really on edge, so they can't afford another big interruption like this. But, again, I have to restate this, as I said earlier, the Ukrainians

are amongst the most resilient people I know and they're saying to Putin, you can do whatever you want, but we are going to be defiant. We have this irrepressible resilience that we're going to show to you.

I mean, I'm even hearing of, for example, possibly even a fashion/symphony show happening here later on Odessa, because Ukrainians want to show that they're - they have a strong brand in Ukraine, but they're also a symbol - show a symbol of defiance and irrepressibility.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

BOCIURKIW: So, that is very, very heartening to see given what's going on.

BLACKWELL: What we have certainly learned over these last seven months is that we should not question their resolve, because they are fighting the entire country there. Michael Bociurkiw, Gen. Kimmitt, thank you both.

BOCIURKIW: Sure.

BLACKWELL: North Korea says its recent string of missile launches were a simulation of a nuclear attack on South Korea. Now, the North has now tested ballistic missiles seven times in two weeks. Pyongyang says Kim Jong-un personally oversaw the drills. CNN's Oren Liebermann is at the Pentagon. So the U.S. has warned North Korea over these missiles, the warnings that obviously the North has ignored, what's the reaction now?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: It's more than just the warnings that we've seen not only from the U.S. but also from South Korea and Japan after we saw these seven launches in two weeks. Mostly short range ballistic missiles, but also that one intermediate range last week that flew over Japan.

The U.S. made it a point to conduct joint exercises. Some just the U.S. and South Korea or just the U.S. and Japan and others were trilateral in nature. The U.S., South Korea and Japan all exercising together. And that included some fairly large scale exercises with some major U.S. assets, the Ronald Reagan carrier exercises with South Korea for the first time in several years. When these launches continue, the Reagan went back to South Korea for more launches.

And then we saw weapons tests as well, JDAMs, a guided bomb, as well as ATACMS launched, long range precision guided munitions. The - so the U.S. is sending a very strong message of its own. The key question, where does this go from here beyond the united message of deterrence and strength that the U.S., South Korea and Japan will put out.

We saw some sanctions not specifically against North Korea last week, but against entities that assist North Korea in conducting these sorts of ballistic missile tests. Crucially, North Korean state media said Kim Jong-un had led these tactical nuclear exercises from September 25 to October 9th, that was obviously yesterday. Does that mean the exercises are done or that there's more missile launches to come?

That's a key question here in terms of watching what the U.S. will do if the US feels a need to continue exercises with South Korea and Japan as we watch all of this play out.

Crucially, Victor, and this is a point worth making, South Korea and the U.S. both warned that if North Korea simply continues on this path, all that's ahead is more condemnation and isolation. But even the U.S. has acknowledged there's a limit to this. The U.S. Ambassador to the UN noted that Russia has coverage at the UN Security Council from Russia and China and they provide the protection that cover to really be able to go after North Korea and really affect their behavior. So that's one of the challenges the U.S. faces in trying to be able to deter or curtail these tests.

BLACKWELL: Yes, certainly. Oren Liebermann reporting from the Pentagon there, thank you very much.

Let's go to Iran now and these violent protests that continue across the country, at least four protesters were reportedly killed over the weekend during a crackdown by authorities. That's according to an Iranian human rights group. A group claims 185 people have died across Iran since these protests began, but CNN cannot independently verify that death number.

Pro-reform protesters also allegedly hacked Iranian state TV this weekend, disrupting his nightly news program. A segment on the supreme leader was replaced with a photo showing his face with a target superimposed over it. Now, the image appeared alongside photos of young women who died in Iran over the last month. These protesters - protests, rather, stemmed from the death of 22-year-old Mahsa Amini. She died while in custody of the government's morality police for apparently not wearing her hijab properly.

First on CNN, former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson who you'll remember gave that bombshell testimony in front of the January 6 House Committee, she's now cooperating in the investigation into Trump's efforts to overturn Georgia's 2020 election results.

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And with less than a month to go now into the midterms, Democrats in tight races all want one person, Obama. Details on the former president's careful approach though in these final weeks.

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BLACKWELL: First on CNN, former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson is now cooperating with the investigation in Georgia into Trump's efforts to overturn the state's 2020 election results. CNN's Sara Murray is following these developments for us. So Sara, Hutchinson we all remember provided that crucial testimony to the one-six Committee in the House, but what can she provide to the investigation in Georgia? SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. She was a

bombshell witness in that public hearing for the congressional hearing.

[15:20:00]

What we are learning now is that she is cooperating with prosecutors in Georgia. She could be an important witness for them, in part, because they have been trying to get testimony from former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows in Georgia. They still have not been able to do that.

But obviously, Cassidy Hutchinson worked very closely with them. She may have observations just what she saw in the West Wing around the 2020 election that could be useful to prosecutors. She may know more about the run up and the aftermath of that now infamous phone call between former President Trump and Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, where Trump asked Raffensperger to find the votes for Trump to win the state.

And she may also have more information about this surprise visit Mark Meadows made to a Georgia ballot audit site in 2020. She may also have information that we don't know about that didn't come out in that public hearing, because she works so closely with the former White House chief of staff.

We also know that the district attorney in Georgia, she's been looking into efforts by Donald Trump and his allies to overturn the 2020 election. She's going into sort of this quieter period ahead of the midterms, but sources have told us she wants to wrap this up pretty quickly after the midterms and she could begin issuing indictments as early as December.

So Hutchinson could be the kind of person who could fill in some gaps if they cannot work out an agreement to get Mark Meadows in front of the grand jury before then, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right. Thank you, Sara.

Next, what CNN uncovered about the behind the scenes planning of Florida governor, Ron DeSantis' migrant flights to Martha's Vineyard and how many taxpayer dollars was spent.

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BLACKWELL: We're learning some new details about Florida governor, Ron DeSantis' efforts to fly migrants from the southern border to Martha's Vineyard and in New York where officials are preparing to open the first migrant humanitarian center to deal with the influx of asylum seekers in that city.

CNN's Steve Contorno and Athena Jones are following these stories for us. Steve, you up first, and let's start with Gov. DeSantis. I've read

that his original plan was actually smaller than the mission he ultimately carried out. What do you know?

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: That's right, Victor. We finally got to look at some documents related to these migrant flights that took people from the Texas border to Martha's Vineyard. And I can tell you after looking through dozens of pages, what's not in there, the words Texas, San Antonio or southern border. Rather, the - when the state put out its call for companies to contract with the state to carry out these migrant flights, they repeatedly said that this was about moving people from Florida.

In fact, the words they use were the program's purpose was to 'relocate' out of the state of Florida foreign nationals who are not lawfully present. And they even told companies that if you're going to contract with us, you need to come up with a process to guarantee that these individuals are 'voluntarily agreed to be relocated out of Florida'.

Even the State's own guidelines say that this was supposed to take place moving people from Florida to other states. And when we got to look at emails between the state and the contractor that it ultimately chose Vertol Systems. The quotes that are received from Vertol said that they were coming up with plans to move people from the Florida panhandle to New York and to California. Again, nothing about flights coming from Texas.

And this is important because there are legal questions that have been raised about this program already. Did it exceed the bounds of what was allowed by state law? There's already a lawsuit filed by a state senator asking a judge to stop these flights on that very question.

Now, when I asked the Governor's office to explain these inconsistencies between these flights and what the state guidelines say, they didn't respond. But in the past, DeSantis has said, look, it's really hard to round up these people in Florida. We have to get them from the source and that's why we were operating in Texas.

But Victor, that doesn't necessarily provide legal justification for why this program seems to have far exceeded the guidelines that are laid out in these documents.

BLACKWELL: Yes, rhetoric and law are separate considerations here.

Athena, let me come to you in New York. The Mayor, Eric Adams, has declared now state of emergency to help respond to the city's migrant crisis. Tell us about this new migrant crisis center.

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Victor. That's right. The Mayor declaring a state of emergency, because New York has been overwhelmed by an unprecedented number of migrants who floated into the city since April about more than - at least 17,000 have arrived.

Here you have people behind me, we're on Randall's Island. This is where humanitarian response and relief center is being built. And I can tell you we've only been here a few hours. They have erected almost this entire big tent that you see in front of you now in the time since we've been here. I'm told this is a 24 hour operation.

We don't yet know the exact date it will be opening, but the Mayor says - the Mayor's office says in the coming weeks it will be opened, it will house at first about 500 migrants with the capacity to expand beyond that. And the idea is it's going to be temporary housing or sort of help people get settled.

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But as I mentioned, a record number of migrants has also led to a record number of people staying in the city's shelter system.