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Biden Speaks about Putin; Biden Speaks about Recession; Putin Speaks at Energy Forum; Alayna Treene is Interviewed about Biden's Comments on Saudi Arabia; McConnell Talks about Serving as Party Leader; Alberto Gonzales is Interviewed about the Mar-a-Lago Document Case. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired October 12, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga.

Happening right now, west coast swing. This hour President Biden departs the White House, kicking off a multistate blitz just 27 days from the midterms. In focus this morning, the president's exclusive CNN interview with Jake Tapper where he sounded off on a number of critical global challenges facing the United States and his administration today, including, of course, the war in Ukraine. President Biden calling Vladimir Putin a rational actor, while saying the Russian president totally miscalculated his invasion. Warning Putin's mistakes could end in nuclear Armageddon.

Our reporters, correspondents and guests are standing by to bring you the very latest.

So, let's begin this morning with CNN White House correspondent MJ Lee.

MJ, the president's interview with Jake covered a number of topics, from Russia to the economy to even questions surrounding his son Hunter. Walk us through what he said last night.

MJ LEE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Bianna, you're right that this was a very wide ranging conversation that the president had here in the White House with Jake last night on everything ranging from, as you said, the economy to issues about his son Hunter, and even his 2024 plans. But some of the most striking comments that we heard from the president in this interview had to do with his assessment of the situation in Ukraine. And specifically, we saw the president sort of get into Vladimir Putin's mind.

You know, as we have been covering this war since the invasion began earlier this year in February, one of the key questions that we have seen this White House grapple with is the question of whether Vladimir Putin is a rational actor. You know, is there rhyme or reason, any sort of logic or predictability to his behavior, to his actions. And, of course, these questions have become more urgent recently as we have seen Putin engage in more nuclear saber-rattling and as we have seen these fresh attacks in the last 72 hours or so across Ukraine.

And last night Jake posed that question directly to the president.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think he is a rational actor who has miscalculated significantly.

I think he thought he was going to be welcomed with opened arms. That this was -- this has been the home of mother Russia and Kyiv and therefore he was going to be welcomed. And I think he just totally miscalculated it.

He, in fact, cannot continue with impunity to talk about the use of a tactical nuclear weapon as if that's a rational thing to do. The mistakes get made and the miscalculation could occur, no one can be sure what would happen, and it could end in Armageddon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: The president was also asked how the U.S. might respond if Putin were to use any nuclear weapons. The president saying that of course those discussions have happened in his administration, but that also he thinks it would be irresponsible for him to engage in sharing sort of what exactly the U.S. may or may not do.

Bianna, as you mentioned, in just a little bit we are going to see the president depart for the west coast for some work, California, Oregon, Colorado. But the interview last night is a reminder that as he works to focus on these domestic issues, these foreign events, these things that are happening abroad, still taking up so much space in this presidency, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, foreign policy definitely a top priority.

MJ Lee, thank you.

Well, a new CNN poll out this morning shows just how critical of a challenge the economy is for President Biden. Seventy-eight percent of Americans rating economic conditions as poor. However, a silver lining, 40 percent, believe the economic conditions will improve and be good in one year.

President Biden shared that optimism overnight, striking down the prediction from JPMorgan's CEO that a recession was likely in the next nine months.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Every six months they look down the next six months and see what's going to happen. It hadn't happened yet. It hadn't -- there - there has - there is no - there's no guarantee that there is going to be a - I don't think there will be a recession. If it is, it will be a very slight recession. (END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans joins me now.

So, Christine, he has a point, that over the past year and a half we've had economists, we've had bank CEOs warning of a recession on the horizon, six months from now, a year from now.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: That hasn't come to fruition. But at some point recessions are part of economic challenges that we've seen throughout time.

What do the - what does the current situation look like, I guess?

[09:05:02]

ROMANS: Well, to be honest, and you're absolutely right, no one knows when the next recession is coming, what it will look like or how long it will last. That's just impossible to know, which is why we look at each one of these economic numbers that the Fed is scrutinizing for any kinds of clues that could give us any insight. And today we learned that factory-level inflation, the Producer Price Index, was 8.5 percent year over year. That's a number that's still too hot. It's down from 8.7 percent the month before, but it's still too hot. This is why the Fed is raising interest rates. So that's what these numbers show.

And you look to the right of your screen. The month over month from August to September prices rose a hotter than expected 0.4 percent. So, showing that the Fed still has work to do.

So, month over month, I'm going to show you this bar chart, we got a little bit excited the last couple months because it felt as though the worst might be behind us. But this pickup in month over month inflation is something that everyone's going to be closely watching, even as overall inflation, producer price level inflation, looks like it could be peaking.

And, of course, these are the numbers that come before consumer prices. The prices paid at the factory, those are -- wholesale level, those feed into what you pay at the grocery store and at the shopping mall. So, we'll be watching for those numbers tomorrow.

But I think bottom line here, we don't know when, if or how bad a recession will be. There have been a lot of predictions. In the meantime, we just look at this data to see if the Fed's work, its rate hikes, are beginning to slow the inflation picture. And at least on the producer level, it doesn't look like it's had a meaningful impact just yet, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, and the Fed has warned that more hikes are still to come down the road.

Christine Romans, thank you. ROMANS: You're welcome.

GOLODRYGA: Well, this morning, Russian President Vladimir Putin is speaking out at an energy forum.

CNN correspondent Salma Abdelaziz is following all of this.

So, Salma, Putin did not respond to Biden's comments last night to Jake Tapper, but he is blaming the U.S. for rising energy costs and even suggesting that the west was to blame for the sabotaging of the Nord Stream pipelines recently.

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Bianna, this is a very worrying aspect of the conflict. The weaponization of energy sources, if you will, by Moscow. Something that was on full display just a couple of hours ago when President Putin was making this speech where he was essentially taunting European leaders, saying it's up to you to turn the taps on. The ball is in your court.

The EU, before this conflict, Bianna, was heavily dependent on gas imports from Russia. Over 40 percent of gas imports, over 40 percent, came from Russia into the EU. That's before the war started.

Of course, European leaders, since the start of the invasion, they've been trying to wean off of Russian oil and gas. But President Putin kind of took the first step in September by cutting off the Nord Stream pipeline. That all important supply route that actually brings most of that natural gas into Europe. He cut that off in early September. And then a few weeks later, these very mysterious explosions under water struck at the heart of these pipelines, making them inoperable, cutting off that supply route to Europe for the foreseeable future.

And President Putin, today, trying to turn those accusations on their head, instead saying that it's the United States that stands to gain from this deliberate act of sabotage. Now, European leaders agree, it's a deliberate act of sabotage, and they are investigating it. They haven't pointed the finger at Russia directly, but that's the subtext here is that Moscow is suspected of turning this off.

And this is really important, Bianna, because what this allows President Putin to do, this card, this oil and gas card that he holds, is it allows him to inflict consequences on Europe for supporting Ukraine, particularly as they head into the wintertime.

So, you're seeing a President Putin here taunting European leaders and trying to break their resolve.

Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, he's been weaponizing energy throughout this conflict.

Salma Abdelaziz, thank you.

Well, part of that global economic puzzle, the impact of energy prices. OPEC and its allies now defending their decision to slash oil production in partnership with Russia. They argue it's in preparation for a potential economic downturn that would hurt energy demand. But senior Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal isn't buying it. He says Saudi Arabia has not only thumbed its nose, it has given us a gut punch. President Biden now vowing the country will be punished.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Do you think it's time for the U.S. to rethink its relationship with Saudi Arabia?

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Yes. And, by the way, let's get straight why I went. I didn't go to -- about oil, I went about making sure that we made sure that we weren't going to walk away from the Middle East.

We should, and I am, in the process when the - when the -- this House and Senate gets back, they're going to have to -- there's going to be some consequences for what they've done with Russia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Joining me now to discuss, "Axios" White House reporter Alayna Treene.

Alayna, good to see you this morning.

So, I guess the big question is, what are those consequences going to be? We hear from lawmakers from both sides of the aisle that something needs to be done in response. I guess, what will that look like?

ALAYNA TREENE, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, "AXIOS": Yes, well, Bianna, you know, his comments match the growing anger on Capitol Hill, especially from Democrats who have been calling for a number of things.

[09:10:09]

And Biden did not specify in his interview with Jake last night that -- what those consequences would be. But, a lot of people on Capitol Hill are weighing in. We heard from the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Bob Menendez, he called for a freeze on all arms sales to Saudi Arabia, and very powerful coming from the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. We also have seen Dick Blumenthal and Ro Khanna come out with a bill trying to push for a freeze in all sales for the next year to Saudi Arabia, all arm sales for Saudi Arabia. And then also I think there's been legislation floating around for some time now called NOPAC (ph), which would also alter the relationship between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, and a lot of lawmakers as well on board with that.

So, I think it's really going to depend on what Biden wants and what the administration wants. They have not laid out a timeline for when he will make a decision. I know that the press secretary, Karine Jean- Pierre, said that she would - you know, they're working through what those consequences could look like. But I do think it's going to take a lot of back and forth conversation between those on Capitol Hill and the White House. And right now a lot of members are not in session. They don't come back until after the midterm elections. And so several weeks until we really see some real substantial action play out on Capitol Hill.

GOLODRYGA: Well, this has been a relationship that goes back, a strategic relationship, between these two countries that goes back some 80 years, 70,000 Americans live in Saudi Arabia, we have about 3,000 troops stationed there.

I know from your reporting, you're hearing from a lot of Democrats who are suggesting that this was a personal decision to inflict harm and pain on Democrats here as the midterms are approaching. We've seen oil prices up 13 percent now in just the last few weeks. This would appear to be Democrats' worst nightmare as they're going into the midterms.

TREENE: Oh, it definitely is. I mean gas prices is a huge issue that's going to be driving a lot of voters to the polls in November and, of course, massive concern for Democrats and President Biden. And, yes, I mean, privately, and I know we reported this and I've heard this from lawmakers myself, from Democrats, they think that this might be a direct attack from the Saudis to interfere in the midterm elections on behalf of Republicans and against Democrats and really to shake up the field just weeks before the midterms.

But it's hard. The White House is not, you know, coming out and saying that just yet, but they are very frustrated. They've had top officials from the Biden White House were just in Saudi Arabia just over, you know, two weeks ago to see if they could - you know, not just for oil, for other reasons, but definitely to see if they could, you know, continue to stabilize relations with the Saudis when it comes to oil and potential oil cuts. And they've been very frustrated. They felt like they had to really go into overtime and try to turn this around and they failed to do that.

And so I think a lot of people are very, very frustrated with this and definitely concerned about the impact on the elections, particularly as inflation as well is really on the rise.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

TREENE: And you saw those comments from President Biden himself saying, you know, he doesn't think there will be a recession, but if there is, it will be a very slight recession. That's not something that's encouraging a lot of Democrats.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, the White House, the president, still standing by that decide, though, to go to Riyadh in July to meet with MBS.

Alayna Treene, thank you.

TREENE: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, still to come, another CNN exclusive, Republican Leader Mitch McConnell has no doubt that he can stay in power in the party. More on his outlook for Republicans heading into the midterms, including Georgia Senate Candidate Herschel Walker. Plus, NATO's secretary general calls Russia's actions this week in

Ukraine the most serious escalation since the invasion began. Just how long can Russia maintain the barrage?

And this hour in Florida, jurors are expected to begin deliberations over the sentencing for the Parkland school shooter. Prosecutors want the death penalty. We'll bring you the very latest, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:18:24]

GOLODRYGA: In a CNN excusive, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell telling CNN he will become the longest serving Senate party leader ever, and he has a plan to do it no matter what happens in the midterms next month.

I want to bring in CNN's Manu Raju, who spoke with Leader McConnell. A fascinating conversation between the two of you.

Manu, why is McConnell so confident that he can have the record for leadership here?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this will be the longest serving party leader in American history from either party. He will eclipse that next year assuming he has the votes. And he told me, quote, I have the votes.

Behind the scenes he has been moving to lock down enough support from his own conference to ensure that he will get that top leadership position. So, despite what Donald Trump has been saying along the campaign trail to try to push out Mitch McConnell as leader, that is not resonating within the Senate Republican conference.

Now, there are still some questions about McConnell's future in the long term. He would not commit to staying as leader beyond the next two years. He said that, I'm not going to go there when I asked him if he would stay as leader until his current Senate term expires, which is in January 2027. He did rule out the possibility of potentially resigning his Senate seat before his term expires. He said there's no question that I'm going to serve out my current Senate term. So that will put some of that speculation to rest.

He would not make a decision -- said he had not make a decision about whether to run for re-election himself when his term ultimately expires. So, behind the scenes there is jostling, there is positioning, but McConnell making clear, he's not going anywhere at least for the next two years.

GOLODRYGA: So, he's confident about his position as party leader, but how does he feel about the challenges for the party overall with just a month to go before the midterms?

[09:20:01]

RAJU: He says it's still uncertain whether or not this election environment will resemble what -- the Republican debacles on the Senate side from 2010 and 2012 when flawed Republican candidates emerged in the general election and could not win those key races, ultimately costing Republicans a serious shot at the majority.

I asked him about his concerns. He said that it's still uncertain whether or not these flaws from these candidates would be fatal or whether or not they'll be able to push this through.

Now, one of the questions, of course, has been about Herschel Walker. He has had a number of problems on the campaign trail. Of course, most recently about an allegation that he paid for a girlfriend's abortion 13 years ago, which he has denied. He told me that they are going to stick with Herschel Walker. He said, I think we're going to stick with Walker and all the effort we put in. I talk to him fairly often. I think they're going to hang in there and scrap to the finish.

This was his first response to whether or not he had any concerns about Walker, indicating they plan to continue their serious investment with his super PAC, the Senate Leadership Fund and its affiliate group, which has already spent, through the election cycle, roughly $60 million on TV ads to try to bolster Walker.

Now, he told me about the reason why he has been going so aggressively to try to raise money on his campaign -- with his super PAC is because of the weak fundraising of a number of these Republican candidates. He said many of these general election campaigns have been woefully underfunded. Not because of the NRSC, that's the Republican Senatorial Committee, but because of the candidates' campaigns themselves. He said, we certainly - SLF certainly has carried the lion's share of the load. So, he is putting enormous investment to trying to prop up these campaigns in all of these key states, but he's still uncertain whether his party will get there, pick up that one net seat next month.

GOLODRYGA: But not necessarily a ringing endorsement of Herschel Walker there. It's rare that we hear from Mitch McConnell. Clearly he had something to say and he said it to you. A very interesting conversation there.

Manu Raju, thank you.

RAJU: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, the Justice Department urged the Supreme Court on Tuesday to reject former President Donald Trump's request that it intervene in the dispute over classified documents seized from Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate last summer. Calling the records extraordinarily sensitive, the Justice Department said the Supreme Court should let stand a federal appeals court order that blocked the special master's access over those records while legal challenges play out. The DOJ writes, quote, as this court has emphasized, courts should be cautious before insisting upon an examination of records whose disclosure would jeopardize national security, even by the judge alone in chambers.

Well, joining me now to discuss is Alberto Gonzales, former U.S. attorney general under President George W. Bush.

Alberto, welcome to the program.

So, let's start with that previous case that the DOJ cited saying that courts should be cautious before insisting upon an examination of records whose disclosure would jeopardize national security even by a judge alone in chambers. Is that an argument that you think that this court would likely find compelling?

ALBERTO GONZALES, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL UNDER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Oh, I do. I think, you know, the special master was hired to determine whether privilege -- any kind of privilege claim might apply to some of the documents that are at question here. And the department made the argument before the 11th Circuit that with respect to classified documents, highly unlikely that any of those would be subject to attorney/client privilege or subject to executive privilege, and the 11th Circuit agreed.

I -- you know, obviously, the Supreme Court, Justice Thomas, because he is the presiding judge over the 11th Circuit, will make the decision whether or not he wants to make the call himself, that he - that he'll agree or disagree with the department, or he'll refer it to the entire court. Typically, on a high-profile case like this, it would be referred to the entire court. But we'll see what happens.

And, of course, the department is going to be waiting, as is Judge Thomas -- Justice Thomas, on some kind of response from former President Trump's team.

But I think that, from my viewpoint, the department has a better argument here and, you know, I think the department feels pretty good about its chances at the Supreme Court.

GOLODRYGA: But you're saying there's a - there's at least a chance that Justice Thomas himself could decide this case? Because I thought it would take up to five justices to respond to the president's -- the former president's request.

GONZALES: No, on this -- on this kind of request to the court, it would be -- typically comes up first to the justice who's assigned to the circuit. In this particular case it is Justice Thomas. He could make this decision on his own. That often happens on routine matters like this. This is not a routine matter, however. And, for that reason, I think it's highly likely that he's going to refer to the entire court for the court to make a decision as to whether or not the desire or the objectives of the Department of Justice should be - should be granted.

[09:25:01]

GOLODRYGA: Well, delving further into the DOJ's response, they're calling the roughly 100 documents with classified markings extraordinarily sensitive and they argued that Trump, quote, has not even attempted to explain how he is reparably injured by the court of appeals partial stay, which simply prevents disclosure of the documents bearing classification markings in the special master review during the pendency of the government's expedited appeal. What do you make of that argument? Are they right on that point?

GONZALES: I think -- I really do believe that they're right on this particular point. These documents, quite frankly, that the president has -- former president has no possessory interest in these documents by law as soon as the administration is over, documents belong to the American people and the U.S. government, under the custody of archivist of the United States of America. And the notion that attorney/client privilege would apply with respect to some of these -- with these documents makes no sense.

And executive privilege only applies with respect to communication -- if communications are sought by another branch of government, then executive privilege might apply to keep that other branch of government from gaining access to that communication. But in this particular case, we're talking about communications involving the president of the United States, head of the executive branch, former head of the executive branch, and the Department of Justice, also in the executive branch and, therefore, executive privilege would not apply.

So, again, I believe the department has a stronger argument in this particular case.

GOLODRYGA: We could hear from the Supreme Court and their decision at any time.

Alberto Gonzales, thank you. We appreciate your time this morning.

GONZALES: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: And still ahead, first on CNN, a preview of how the Biden administration is trying to address the flow of illegal immigrants at the border. Why they're specifically looking at migrants from Venezuela.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)