Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

CNN Exclusive: Ukraine Vows To Strike Back At Russia; IMF Issues Stark Recession Warning: Worst Is Yet To Come; Rights Group: Live Ammo Used On Protesters In Kurdish Cities; Biden, Congress To Re- Evaluate Relations With Saudi Arabia. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired October 12, 2022 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[00:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR (on camera): Hello, everyone. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. Coming up this hour. For a second day, non-military targets across Ukraine were hit by a dwindling supply of Russian missiles. Not exactly a war-winning strategy for Vladimir Putin.

It's bad now, we'll get a whole lot worse next year. The IMF gloomy outlook for the global economy.

BFFs no more. In an exclusive interview, President Joe Biden says there will be consequences after the Saudis agreed to cut oil production and move which screwed the U.S. and Ukraine and gave Russia a huge win.

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center. This is CNN NEWSROOM with John Vause.

VAUSE: Another day of ramped-up Russian airstrikes targeting energy facilities and civilian infrastructure and once again, Ukraine is pleading for advanced air defense system from the U.S. and NATO. In the capital Kyiv and other cities, residents were forced to take shelter again. But with fewer missiles fired compared to a day earlier, analysts believe Moscow's stockpile of long-range precision- guided missiles is likely running low.

Still, in the past two days, at least 19 people have been killed. more than 100 wounded, and no major city has been spared. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy press G7 leaders for an air shield to protect against Russian airstrikes. Germany is sending one of the most advanced air defense systems in the world and the U.S. has promised similar advanced defenses as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS, NSC: We've been helping provide air defense capabilities to Ukraine since the very beginning of this conflict. The President has expedited the order and purchase of what we call NASAMS. These are national advanced surface- to-air missile systems which will also give Ukrainians some additional range here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Still, with Soviet-era air defenses, Ukraine is doing better than average intercepting Russian missiles and drones. President Zelenskyy claimed 20 out of 28 missiles fired by Russia was shut down on Tuesday. He praised one soldier for bringing down two cruise missiles on Monday with a shoulder-fired rocket. Ukrainian officials will gather in Germany and meet with NATO allies in the day ahead to discuss military needs. And President Zelenskyy has urged G7 leaders to declare Russia a terrorist state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT, UKRAINE (through translator): The leader of Russia feeling the approach of his end is trying to force the democratic world to surrender with a terrorist rush to retreat to lose. This can only be the desire of an insane person. More than 100 missile strikes in less than two days against civilians, against civilian infrastructure, sham referenda, a criminal attempt at annexation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Ukraine's Energy Minister reports about 30 percent of the country's energy infrastructure has been hit by Russian missiles. And with around the clock repair efforts underway to restore electricity, he's also urging people across the country to limit their energy consumption. In Lviv, in western Ukraine says four electrical substations have been damaged, resulting in serious problems with the city's energy supply.

The war in Ukraine expected to dominate a meeting of NATO Defense Ministers Wednesdays in Brussels. Britain's spy chief says Russian losses on the battlefield are staggering. Putin's troops are running out of ammunition and supplies. We get more now from CNN Fred Pleitgen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): As the Russian military continues to fire barrages of missiles at Ukraine engulfing the area around the Capitol in thick black smoke, in an exclusive interview, Ukraine's national security adviser tells me Kyiv will strike back on the battlefield.

OLEKSIY DANILOV, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER, UKRAINE (through translator): Our reaction is at the front only. We are not at war with the civilian population in the Russian Federation. We're fighting with the Russian military. It's only a matter of time when the Russian Federation will collapse under the problems it's accumulating.

PLEITGEN: The Ukrainian say they've been able to shoot down about half the missiles Russia fires off, but some have hit civilian targets like in the southern city of Zaporizhzhia. Ukraine's president on an urgent G7 video call also attended by President Joe Biden demanded more Western air defense systems to protect Ukrainian cities.

ZELENSKYY (through translator): When Ukraine will receive a sufficient number of modern and effective air defense systems, the key element of Russian terror missile strikes will cease to work.

PLEITGEN: The Russians continue to claim Their strikes in Ukraine our revenge for the weekend attack on the Kerch Bridge linking Russia and occupied Crimea, even though key have hasn't acknowledged it was behind the blast. Russian President Vladimir Putin threatening even more strikes in the future if Ukraine attacks Russia's infrastructure. But the head of the U.K. spy agency says the reality is Putin's troops are in trouble.

[00:05:24]

JEREMY FLEMING, DIRECTOR, GCHQ: The costs to Russia in people and equipment are staggering. We know and Russian military commanders know that their supplies of ammunition are running out.

PLEITGEN: Ukrainian officials say they take the threat of possible Russian nuclear strike seriously as Putin's forces lose ground on the battlefield. But the National Security Adviser says even tens of thousands of additional Russian men now being trained and mobilized will not turn the tide in Moscow's favor.

DANILOV: We're going to push them out of Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson, Nikolayev, Zaporizhzhia, and all the regions where these rats have entered our territory. We will send them all to the Lord. They will all return home either alive or dead. They will have no other way.

PLEITGEN: But the Ukrainians do acknowledge that those Russian missile strikes are causing serious problems for them. In fact, the country's energy minister told CNN that 30 percent of Ukraine's energy infrastructure has already been hit by those Russian strikes. Now, the Ukrainians are trying to do something about that. They're urging people to conserve as much energy as possible. But at the same time, this is turning to a real crunch for Ukraine's energy infrastructure. Fred Pleitgen, CNN Kyiv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Joining us now is David Satter, one of the world's leading experts on all things Russia. Over the years, he's written five books on Russia. He's also the former Moscow Correspondent for The Financial Times, and the former Wall Street Journal Special Correspondent on Soviet affairs.

Thank you, sir, for being with us.

DAVID SATTER, FORMER MOSCOW CORRESPONDENT, FINANCIAL TIMES: Glad to be here.

VAUSE: So, in rare public remarks, the head of the U.K. intelligence service, Sir Jeremy Fleming, described Vladimir Putin and Russia as now being in a desperate situation. Here's part of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLEMING: The costs to Russia in people and equipment are staggering. We know and Russian military commanders know that their supplies, ammunition are running out. Russia's forces are exhausted. The use of prisoners as reinforcements, and now the mobilization of tens of thousands of inexperienced conscripts speaks of a really desperate situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: That brings us to the past few days of Russian airstrikes which caused a lot of damage and death, but are unlikely to change the course of this war for Putin. So, why do it? Given the reaction it seems there's been increased support from the West, including advanced air defense systems that are coming from Germany, are those airstrikes seem almost counterproductive. So, what's going on here?

SATTER: The airstrikes are set are symbolic. And the losses, of course, from the point of view of Putin, are not significant. What matters is if he himself is threatened. And that's going to determine the course of the conflict. This is a person who is indifferent to the to the human cost of what he's doing. His -- he will become amenable to some type of an agreement, including a withdrawal when he personally is in danger and not until then. This is something that we have to keep in mind if we want to understand what's likely to happen next.

VAUSE: Well, from the White House to NATO, there is an agreement, an obvious one, that the war in Ukraine is not going as Vladimir Putin had planned. Here's secretary general for NATO.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENS STOLTENBERG, SECRETARY GENERAL, NATO: President Putin is failing in Ukraine. His attempted annexations, partial mobilization, and reckless nuclear rhetoric represents the most significant escalation since the start of the war. And they show that this war is not going as planned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: So, just in the context, from a practical point of view, if Russia's stockpiles of precision-guided weapons are running low and they're using these sort of dumb bombs, if you like, how long can this tempo -- this combat tempo continue with these airstrikes? And how much does that sort of increase the chance of Putin now resorting to nuclear weapons at some point?

SATTER: I think for the -- for the moment, what he's going to do is pour in as many untrained conscripts and mobilize soldiers as he can, and hope that by sheer force of numbers, he can hold on to the territory that he presently occupies. I think that nuclear weapons are not the option that he's going to resort to right away. But of course, there are risks for him in this strategy as well because the influx of thousands and thousands of people who are not equipped to fight, don't want to be there, are poorly equipped and inadequately trained could lead to the collapse of the front. If he -- if that happens, then there can be movement against Putin in Moscow.

[00:10:14]

VAUSE: It's interesting because Politico has some reporting on Putin's problems at home. They write, "For the first time in two decades, the Russian president's opponents think it's more likely than not that he will depart in the near term, although they disagree about how the end game might play out, who might replace him, and how much it depends on the course of a war that is turning against him and undermining his era of invincibility."

So, you believe this is now based on fact and reality, not just wishful thinking?

SATTER: There's too much that we don't know. There's too much that we don't know but there -- I am absolutely confident that there are people in the Russian military and in the security services, because I've known them over the years, who are are -- who think normally and understand that this is a disaster for the country. How strong they are?

How -- whether they can prevail, we don't know. But as the disaster on the front -- at the front unfolds, their position, of course, becomes stronger and their motivation becomes stronger.

VAUSE: David Satter, thanks so much for being with us. We really appreciate your insights. Thank you, sir.

SATTER: Thanks. Glad to be here.

VAUSE: David Satter, thanks so much for being with us.

VAUSE (voiceover): U.S. stocks finished mixed on Tuesday at a sliding for the past four days. Investors are concerned about a key U.S. inflation earnings report which is set to come out and the war in Ukraine. The Dow snapped its losing streak rising about o.1 percent. S&P 500 and NASDAQ ended the day lower after briefly entering positive territory during midday trading, the fifth consecutive day in the red indices.

And the Bank of England will not extend its bond-buying support for pension funds beyond Friday. Investors hit by a slump in bond prices have just three days to adjust their investments before the Central Bank withdraws support. But the BOE Governor standing firm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW BAILEY, GOVERNOR, BANK OF ENGLAND: I think they need to concentrate on doing everything they need to do to be done by the end of this week.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there anything that you would see that would that make you change your mind on the thinking?

BAILEY: They need to concentrate on being done by the end of this week. (END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Hours earlier, the Central Bank announced new measures to support the U.K. government debt market for the second time in two days. The Pound fell more than a cent against the U.S. dollar after Bailey's remarks to its lowest level since nearly two weeks.

The outlook for the global economy is bleak with the International Monetary Fund warning. After a difficult year, there's much worse to come. CNN is Rahel Solomon has more now reporting from New York.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (on camera): International Monetary Fund forecasting, storm clouds ahead with a sharp recessionary warning and another economic downgrade. The IMF warning that "The worst is yet to come" as it slightly downgraded its global growth forecast for 2023 to 2.7 percent. The agency said that to say.

It expects one-third of the world next year to experience two-quarters of negative GDP, which some economists would call a recession, and that many people around the world will feel like it's a recession. Russia's war in Ukraine, persistent inflation, and continued lockdowns in China all a factor in the darkening outlook.

Also predicting a gloomy forecast, JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon, saying in an interview with CNBC that these headwinds are serious and likely to push the U.S. and world into some sort of recession in the next six to nine months. One silver lining in the otherwise bleak report, the IMF expects global inflation to peak late this year before it lowering in the following years.

We'll also learn a lot more about the state of the economy when the big U.S. banks kick off earnings season later this week. Friday, we'll hear from JPMorgan Chase, Wells Fargo, Citigroup, and Morgan Stanley.

Rahel Solomon, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLT: The British Finance Minister took the IMF remarks out of context to defend his widely criticized policies to lawmakers. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KWASI KWARTENG, BRITISH FINANCE MINISTER: Just to pick up on a point. The IMF said today that actually, the plan, the mini budget has increased the forecast for growth. That's exactly -- that's exactly -- that's precisely the opposite of what the honorable lady said. And it's very clear where we stand on this. We've got pro-growth, pro- enterprise, pro-business, conservatives on one side, and the anti- growth Coalition on the other side, who wants to tax more and wants to commit us to low growth.

(END VIDEO CLIP) VAUSE: While defending his plans for the UK's biggest tax cuts in 50 years saying it will boost economic growth, and supported by the IMF -- yes, that is true -- but he left out the part where the IMF said those cuts will also complicate the fight against inflation. The minister's plans have been criticized by politicians and financial institutions. And the Minister is set to reveal his medium-term fiscal plan at the end of the month on Halloween to a parliament who will be "relentlessly upbeat."

Well, amid the financial turmoil in the U.K., a new Royal era is set to begin. The coronation of King Charles III take place May 6 next year at Westminster Abbey in London. Buckingham Palace says the service will be a more modern affair than previous Royal Coronations but will still be rooted in long-standing traditions. King Charles will be crowned alongside his wife Camilla, the Queen Consort. This will be just a second coronation in British history to be televised. Queen Elizabeth was the first back in 1953.

We'll take a short break here on CNN NEWSROOM. When we come back, protesters in Iran turn on security forces attempting to break up anti-government protests. More on the latest tactics being taken to silence the public.

Also ahead, after 23 years of maintaining his innocence, Adnan Syed has been exonerated in the killing of his ex-girlfriend Hae Min Lee. Why Baltimore prosecutors dropped all the charges? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: There are new images from Southern Iran of protesting oil workers. Strikes began on Monday spread to more petrochemical plants in the region in support of nationwide demonstrations after the death of Mahsa Amini. She was arrested by the morality police last month and died in custody. Demonstrations are spreading showing little sign of letting up despite a deadly government crackdown.

Students across Iran are raising their voices. This video obtained by Reuters shows students in Tehran forming the word blood in Farsi. It's unclear when the video was taken. Amini was Kurdish and their protests over her death has spread beyond Kurdish regions. Government forces have been especially brutal trying to quash dissent in Iran's Kurdistan province. Rights group says the scale of the massacre is bigger than they can report. And they say Iran is using heavy weapons meant to annihilate armor and aircraft on its own citizens. CNN's Jomana Karadsheh has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): This is what the Iranian regime doesn't want the world to see. Its ruthless crackdown on protests in the Kurdish city of Sanandaj. has turned it into a warzone. Security forces moving around on motorbikes terrorizing residents, shooting indiscriminately of protesters and into people's homes.

Human Rights monitor Hengaw says several people have been killed including a 7-year-old child who died in his mother's lap. Communication restrictions making it almost impossible for them and for us to tell the story of that child and the many others Hengaw fear have been killed. After days of trying, we were finally able to briefly speak to protester inside the city. For his safe, we're concealing his identity.

[00:20:04]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The security forces are using a lot of force to confront the people. A lot of people have been killed here. Because the internet is cut, we couldn't send any information on social media. The people are really scared. Last night in the Baharan neighborhood, there were fierce clashes.

KARADSHEH: The regime says it is separatists fueling the uprising in the Kurdish region, armed gangs that have attacked its forces, but offered no proof. The little video breaking through the government's internet shut down just enough to see some of the horror unleashed on the people of Sanandaj.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Last night, the security forces were firing in the direction of houses, they were using military grade bullets. And until now, I hadn't heard such bullets. The people were really afraid. They were firing lots of tear gas in the direction of houses, the backyards, even the balconies.

In the Baharan neighborhood, everyone felt the effects of tear gas. They had difficulty breathing. We've heard that the hospital is full of injured people. Many people have been arrested and it's not clear where they're being taken because they're not telling anyone anything.

KARADSHEH: Human rights groups say the government is using the blackout to hide its crimes.

RAMAYAR HASSANI, HENGAW ORGANIZATION FOR HUMAN RIGHTS: The scale of the massacre is way, way bigger than what we have been able to report. This is just a drop of the ocean. We have received videos from Sanandaj that the IRGC and other security forces have used 50 caliber machine guns. These are not normal guns. It's basically like shutting protesters, let's say, in on one of the streets of the United States by M-2.

KARADSHEH: But those bullets and bloodshed haven't stopped the will of the people, some brave protesters still taking to the streets refusing to be silenced. Jomana Karadsheh, CNN Istanbul.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Prosecutors in the city of Baltimore have dropped all charges against Adnan Syed who spent more than two decades behind bars for the 1999 killing of his ex-girlfriend. Syed has always maintained his innocence and was featured in the landmark podcast Serial. CNN's Jason Carroll has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JASON CARROLL, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): An attorney for Adnan Syed says that he will spend his time now truly being free without the burden of having to wear an ankle monitor. This after prosecutors made it official and dropped the charges against Syed for the 1999 murder of his ex-girlfriend Hae Min Lee after releasing him from prison last month.

They did it after receiving new DNA test results on items that had never been tested before which they say excluded Syed from evidence collected at the crime scene. All of this the result of Syed's case gaining national attention on the first season of the Serial podcast that was back in 2014. He was already serving a life sentence but new evidence came to light, much of it shown in that podcast.

The state's attorney confirmed that previous prosecutors on the case had failed to tell Syed's defense attorney about evidence that would have allowed him to defend himself, including that there were two other possible suspects in the case. Syed serve 23 years behind bars before it's released last month. The state did have a 30 day period to decide whether or not to refile the case. But once that DNA evidence came in late last Friday, the decision was made to officially drop it.

ERICA SUTER, ADNAN SYED'S ATTORNEY: He is elated. He is joyful. He is still processing this. I mean, I think you can imagine this has been -- there have been so many ups and downs over the past 23 years, so he is really just taking it all in. But he's incredibly grateful for all of the people who have supported him and believed in him over the years.

MARILYN MOSBY, STATE'S ATTORNEY, BALTIMORE CITY: Although my administration was not responsible for neither the pain inflicted upon Hae Min Lee's family, nor was my administration responsible for the wrongful conviction of Mr. Syed, as a representative of the institution, it is my responsibility to acknowledge and to apologize to the family of Hae Min Lee and Adnan Syed.

CARROLL: Now, the murder of Hae Min Lee remains unsolved but prosecutors say they are determined to find her killer. Her family angered over the development saying through an attorney, they found out from the media that the charges had been dropped. Their attorney saying all this family ever wanted was answers and a voice. Today's actions rob them of both.

Meanwhile Adnan who 41 years old has always maintained his innocence. His attorney would not say whether or not he plans to try -- to file civil charges against those who were responsible for his conviction. His attorney did say that now that he's free, he'll continue to pursue his education and with hopes of possibly pursuing a degree in law. Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Joe Biden paid a political price for the fist-bump with a Saudi leader he described as a pariah. And now, there'll be consequences for Saudi Arabia after the kingdom handed Russia a huge boost in oil revenue. That's ahead. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Do you think Putin is a rational actor?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: We'll get the American President's response to that in a moment along whether or not there is an off ramp for Russia in the war in Ukraine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: Welcome back. Wherever you are in the world, you're watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm John Vause. During an exclusive interview with CNN, the U.S. president says there will be consequences for Saudi Arabia for supporting Russia and agreeing to cut oil production. That move will see price increases at the pump which the White House has been working hard to avoid ahead of November midterm elections.

The White House also says President Biden will work with Congress to reevaluate relations with Saudi Arabia. CNN's Kaitlan Collins explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (on camera): President Biden now taking a different tone when it comes to Saudi Arabia saying he does believe there needs to be a review of the U.S.- Saudi Arabia relationship in light of that decision by OPEC Plus to slash oil production despite attempts by the White House to get Saudi Arabia to continue oil production as it was potentially to increase it.

And this is something that is causing Democratic lawmakers here in Washington to say that Saudi Arabia is effectively siding with Russia and its war on Ukraine, because of course, if they slashed production that could potentially boost prices for Russia, helping them finance the war that they are conducting in Ukraine. And so, that is something that is under consideration here at the White House.

But we are told by John Kirby from the National Security Council, that doesn't mean that a formal policy review is being conducted. No special teams, no deadlines, the White House also not saying exactly what options they're looking at when it comes to potentially retaliating against Saudi Arabia. Though they do seem to sense a sense of urgency here saying that this is something they are going to be having conversations with members of Congress about because you've seen Democrats, people from Biden's own side of the political aisle, saying that they believe that the weapons sales that are going to Saudi Arabia should effectively be curtailed, potentially stripping some of those antitrust laws that help OPEC+ function with the price of oil.

All of this, matters that are under consideration now in Washington, because Congress is vowing to push back against this decision. The question is, just how much the White House is going to go along with this.

But it is a big shift in tone for President Biden himself, given that over the summer, he took the political hit, going to Saudi Arabia, meeting personally with Saudi leaders and fist-bumping the crown prince, a decision he said he doesn't regret.

Butt of course, all of that factors into what the White House is thinking now when it comes to the U.S. Saudi relationship. And they said, really, that amounts to a rethinking of what that relationship is going to look like going forward and whether or not it serves the national security interests of the United States.

Kaitlan Collins, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: President Biden sat down for a one-on-one interview with CNN's Jake Tapper, who asked about the possibility of a U.S. economic recession, as well as the mental state of the Russian president, Vladimir Putin. Here's part of the interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Do you think Putin is a rational actor?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think he is a rational actor who's miscalculated significantly. I think he thought -- you may recall I pointed out that they were going to invade, that all those 100,000 or more troops there, no one believed that he was going to invade Ukraine.

You listen to what he says, if you listen to the speech he made after that decision is being made, he talked about the whole idea of he was -- needed to be a leader of Russia that united all the Russian speaking -- I mean, I just -- I just think it's irrational.

TAPPER: So if he's not rational --

BIDEN: I didn't say he's not rational.

TAPPER: You said the speech is.

BIDEN: I think the speech is.

TAPPER: OK.

BIDEN: I think the speech and his objectives are not rational. I think he thought, Jake, I think he thought he was going to be welcomed with open arms, that this was -- this has been the home of Mother Russia, in Kyiv, and he was going to be welcomed. I think he just totally miscalculated.

TAPPER: What is the off-ramp? Is there any acceptable way that he can leave, in his mind, without seizing territory in a way that would not be acceptable to Ukraine? BIDEN: I don't know what's in his mind, but clearly, he could leave.

He could just flat leave and still probably hold his position together in Russia.

The idea that he's been able to convince a significant Russian -- of the Russian people that this is something that he thought made sense, but now he's accomplished what he wanted to do, and it's time to bring Russians home.

TAPPER: The economy remains top of mind for voters. Should the American people prepare for a recession?

BIDEN: No, look, they've been saying this now how -- every six months, they say this. Every six months, they look down the next six months and say what's going to happen. It hadn't happened yet.

We're in a better position than any other major country in the world, economically and politically. We are -- we still have real problems, but look at what we got down. We passed so much legislation that significantly makes a point about, you know, for example, the American Rescue Plan, the legislation to deal with inflation, the Inflation Act. We've moved along.

I mean, there's so much that's been accomplished that the idea that there's something -- there's an automaticity to recession, it's just not -- it's just not there. They've been predicting this off and on for the last --

TAPPER: But you just said that a slight recession is possible.

BIDEN: It is possible. Look, it's possible. I don't anticipate it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Political analyst Michael Genovese is the president of the Global Policy Institute at Loyola Merrimac University, and he is with us from Los Angeles. It's been a while, Michael. Good to see you.

MICHAEL GENOVESE, PRESIDENT, GLOBAL POLICY INSTITUTE: Good to see you, John.

VAUSE: Midterm elections in the U.S. are four weeks away. The balance of power in the Senate and House of Representatives are up for grabs. This interview was seen as an opportunity for the president to sell his administration's achievements, because in a lot of the races around the country, Republicans are tying the Democratic candidate directly to Biden, essentially making this midterm election a referendum on the president. So how did Joe Biden do?

GENOVESE: Well, you know, every midterm election is a referendum on the incoming president, and that's one of the reasons why it's time for us to punch back at the incumbent. Whatever we don't like, we can blame on that person.

And it's always a fact that midterms are tough on presidents. They tend to lose about 5 or 6 Senate seats, about 25 House seats. I think Biden will do better this time.

But it's hard to defend against the onslaught of criticism, especially when there are serious problems out there that the American public really is worried about. Inflation, gas prices. Maybe there's going to be a recession.

[00:35:09]

And so, President Biden was trying to basically defend his record. He is not the most scintillating speaker, and therefore, he does not always sell himself, nor does he sell the case as well as he could. This is a tough so, because the Republicans are really on the attack.

VAUSE: Yes, you mentioned the economy being one of the biggest issues for Americans coming up to the midterms, and the U.S. economy, we don't happen (ph) to see a lot of inflation. It's starting to bring down those high prices. And not sure of a recession, was a question that Jake Tapper put to Joe Biden. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Should the American people prepare for a recession?

BIDEN: No, look, they've been saying this now how -- every six months, they say this. Every six months, they look down the next six months and say what's going to happen. It hadn't happened yet.

It hadn't -- there is no -- there's no guarantee that they're going to -- I don't think there will be a recession. If there is, it will be a very slight recession.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: The thing about this administration, though, is that they can play with the technical definition of what a recession is. They can weasel their way out of, you know, being labeled an official recession.

But the reality is, I guess, politically, is there much difference from a technical recession not happening if everyone feels like the economy is in a real recession and feeling the pain of that.

GENOVESE: That is right. To the American public, that doesn't pass the smell test. They feel like there's going to be a recession. Some people feel there already is a recession. And so feelings are more important than facts. We know that. Perception is more important than reality.

And so whoever can shape the narrative can win the argument. Joe Biden has been unable to shape the narrative. He doesn't speak authoritatively or with confidence, and so the American public is understandably worried. I don't think Biden has done much to reassure them.

VAUSE: On the positive side, this country has an unemployment rate of around 3.5 percent, which is historically low. But that only affects a faction of the country. We're looking at inflation, which affects the -- the entire population. Everyone spending power is being heard. So politically, it's kind of a loser, isn't it, at the moment?

GENOVESE: That's right, and you know, many economists are saying there's going to be a recession. Having said that, the underlying forces in the economy are actually fairly strong, especially compared to other countries.

But it really is a matter of what you feel, what you think when you close the door at night and go in and sit down in the living room with your family. And do you feel confident? You feel like tomorrow is going to be a better day?

Do you feel like you can basically pay your bills and have a little bit of a disposable income? Americans are understandably and, I think, rightly concerned.

VAUSE: The president was also asked about the relationship with Saudi Arabia. And this is interesting, because the kingdom essentially screwed over Joe Biden, as well as Ukraine when OPEC+ agreed to cut oil output. It was a big win for Russia forcing the price of oil up.

Again, here's President Biden speaking with Jake Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: You think it's time for the U.S. to rethink its relationship with Saudi Arabia?

BIDEN: Yes, and by the way, let's get straight why I went. I didn't go about oil. I went there about making sure that we weren't going to walk away from the Middle East.

We should -- and I am -- in the process when the -- this House and Senate gets back, they're going to have to, there's going to be some consequences for what they've done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: A couple of things. Does anyone really believe the meeting between the Saudi crown prince and Biden was about anything other than oil and the price of oil?

And at this point, is it wise to be starting a fight with the third biggest oil producer in the world whilst in the midst of a war with the second biggest oil producer?

GENOVESE: And we've always had this very strained and strange relationship with Saudi Arabia. They do not conform or comport to our values, but in a tough world where you have to make tough choices, you can always side with the angels. Sometimes you have to make deals with countries that you don't like.

We've done that for years with Saudi Arabia. Right now, they are not behaving as if they are an ally or a friend. They're behaving like they're switching their allegiance to -- to Putin and Russia. That would be strategically foolish of them, but I can understand why they're trying to play both sides of the -- burn both sides of the candle.

VAUSE: Michael Genovese, as always, thanks so much for being with us.

GENOVESE: Thank you, John.

You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. We'll take a short break. We'll be right back. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:41:39]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(FLUTE MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Australia and Indonesia are marking 20 years since a very deadly day in Bali. Events are planned throughout the day.

Survivors, and officials and families and friends of the victims of the Bali bombings are attending memorial services.

Australia's prime minister has paid tribute to all of those who've died: 202 people from more than 20 countries killed in 2002 when a group linked to al-Qaeda detonated two bombs outside nightclubs in an area which is populator especially with Australian tourists.

In Northern Thailand, mourners gathered Tuesday at a Buddhist temple to say their final farewells to 19 at the lives lost in last week's daycare massacre.

Orange-colored flames lit up the sky during the cremation ceremony. Coffins were dressed with flowers and black and white decorative cloth. Pictures of some of the victims were surrounded by stuffed toys.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRAKRU ADISAI KIJJANUWAT, ABBOT OF RAY SAMAKEE TEMPLE (through translator): Our intention is to send the children and their teacher off to heaven. The teacher will take the lead, and the 18 children will follow her steps to heaven. According to our beliefs and THE desires of their parents and everyone here to send him off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Thirty-six lives were taken in that massacre, mostly young children. The total includes the attacker's wife and stepson, who he killed before taking his own life. The largest mass killing by one individual in Thailand's history.

On that sad note, thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm John Vause. Please stay with us. I'll be back in about 15 minutes at the top of the hour. In the meantime, WORLD SPORT is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:45:28]

(WORLD SPORT)

[00:57:54]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)