Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Employee Says boxes Moved at Trump's Direction; Former Trump Aide Calls Him a Danger to Democracy; Jury Awards Sandy Hook Families and First Responder Nearly $1 Billion Against Alex Jones; NATO Defense Ministers Set to Meet on Ukraine; LA Residents Furious Over Council Member's Racist Remarks. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired October 13, 2022 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and a warm welcome to our viewers joining us in the United States and all around the world. I'm Max Foster in London. Just ahead --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All roads lead to Donald Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing was put into Mar-a-Lago unless Donald said so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, do you all agree that this is your verdict?

JURY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The verdict against Alex Jones's lies and their poisonous spread.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are really sending a message here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Russia has deliberately struck civilian infrastructure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One country cannot take the territory of another by force.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Live from London, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Max Foster.

FOSTER: It is Thursday, October 13th, 9 a.m. here in London, 4 a.m. in Washington. Where in just a matter of hours the January 6th committee will return to the public eye. In a hearing expected to hammer home that former president Donald Trump remains a clear and present danger to democracy.

But before we get to that there are new details into the investigation of Trump's handling of documents. A Trump employee has told the FBI that the former president directed boxes to be moved out of a basement storage room to his residence in Mar-a-Lago. A source telling CNN that came after Trump received a subpoena for classified documents. The story was first reported by "The Washington Post."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEVLIN BARRETT, NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: It's a really interesting twist in the investigation and that's we're told at the first time the FBI interviewed this person, this person said they didn't move boxes. They didn't have anything to do with the documents. And the second time this person was interviewed they told a very different story and that's that, in fact, this person did move boxes and did so at the ex-president's specific instruction.

That's important for a couple reasons. One, because it's someone describing what the president said to do. And two, because that description pairs up and tracks with the security footage that the investigators have and those two things together, they believe are powerful evidence.

I'm told this person is considered a very important witness. Important in the development of the investigation, important in their understanding of what happened and obviously important in ultimately the decision to execute a search warrant because again, the witness account matches what they see on the security footage.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: We're also learning those documents seized during the Mar-a- Lago search were far less than the 200,000 pages the Trump legal team had claimed. The Justice Department said it's actually about 10 times less, at about 22,000 pages.

We're going to go back now though to today's hearing in Washington. Where the house committee investigating the January 6th attack on the Capitol will hold their first public hearing in months. Sources say it'll feature new testimony and evidence although no witnesses will be appearing in person. Since the last hearing in July, the committee has interviewed more than -- well, more former members of Trump's cabinet and received more than a million communications from the Secret Service from the leadup to the Capitol riot. Lawmakers are expected to treat the hearing as a closing argument ahead of the critical midterm elections and focus on the former president's continued efforts to claim the 2020 election was stolen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: All roads lead to Donald Trump. Big picture, the hearing is supposed to focus on, quote, his state of mind and his involvement in the events around January 6th. That's according to someone familiar with the committee's work. I'm also told the committee is expected to make the point that almost two years later Donald Trump remains a clear and present danger to democracy. And that's not just a slogan, they are going to point out that he continues to pretend the election was stolen. He continues to rile up his supporters with lies and they believe he is setting up for a repeat in 2024.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[04:05:00]

FOSTER: Congressional investigators are hardly alone in that belief that Trump is dangerous to democracy. Another person who shares that sentiment is his former deputy press secretary. Sarah Matthews resigned after January 6th and later testified. This is what she told CNN in her first interview since that testimony.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY UNDER TRUMP: I do think that he poses a threat to democracy. I think that January 6 show that and that was part of my reason for resigning. He failed to act that day. He had every opportunity to call off the mob and condemned the violence. We've seen from taped testimony from several of my colleagues. Folks were pleading with him to do that and he didn't ever pick up the phone once. And I think that the January 6 committee has laid that out. But furthermore, than just January 6 he's continued to push the lie that the 2020 election was stolen from him with zero evidence of that. And I think that that does pose a threat to our democracy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Meanwhile, a member of the far right group, the Oath Keepers, testified Wednesday about a large stash of weapons the group stored just outside of Washington on the day of January 6 Capitol riot. Five of the group's members face seditious conspiracy charges for their alleged roles in the insurrection. All have pleaded not guilty.

The man who testified, Terry Cummings, is a military veteran who says the weapons were meant as a show of force not to be used. But in his own words Cummings told the jury, quote, I have not seen that many weapons in one location since I was in the military.

You can watch the January 6th hearing live today with Anderson Cooper and Jake Tapper. It all begins at 1 p.m. in Washington, 6 p.m. in London right here on CNN.

Now American conspiracy theorist Alex Jones is learning the hard way that malicious lies can be costly. That's after a jury awarded families of the Sandy Hook school shooting victims and a first responder nearly a billion dollars in damages. Radio host Alex Jones had long insisted that the 2012 massacre was an elaborate hoax concocted by the government to pass gun control laws. CNN's Brynn Gingras has the details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury --

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Alex Jones, the conspiracy theorist who was found liable last year of defaming families of the sandy hook school shooting victims must pay for his words.

ROBBIE PARKER, DAUGHTER MURDERED AND SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: I'm just proud that what we accomplished is just to simply tell the truth. And it shouldn't be this hard. And it shouldn't be this scary.

GINGRAS: The Connecticut jury of six unanimously decided Jones must pay $965 million compensatory damages to the 15 plaintiffs -- 14 are family members of victims and a 15th is an FBI agent who responded to the scene on the day of the shooting. Family members sat in court, some crying as the verdict was read. Jones was not there.

ALEX JONES, INFOWARS HOST: The whole thing was fake.

GINGRAS (voice-over): The Infowars host spent years spreading disinformation about the 2012 Sandy Hook school massacre which left 20 children and 6 educators dead calling the shooting a hoax. Alleging the families involved were crisis actors. During four weeks of emotional testimony family members of the victims described how they'd been harassed over the past decade, both in person and online.

PARKER: For years I've been dealing with this. And everybody was online or everybody in the comfort of their studio in some other states and I never had a chance to tell anybody how I felt or what I thought. I'm paraphrasing at this point but like just how dare you? You're talking about my daughter. She was killed. Who do you think you are.

FRANCINE WHEELER, SON MURDERED AT SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: And she said, who's that? And I said, that's my son ben. He died in his first grade classroom at Sandy Hook school. And she said, what? I said, yeah, he died at Sandy Hook. And she said, you're lying. That didn't happen.

GINGRAS (voice-over): During the trial Jones took the stand only one time on September 22nd and got in a heated exchange with the plaintiff's attorney.

CHRIS MATTEI, PLAINTIFFS' ATTORNEY: Today a jury representing our community and our nation rendered an historic verdict, a verdict against Alex Jones's lies and their poisonous spread and a verdict for truth and for our common humanity.

GINGRAS (voice-over): Jones defense team opted not to cross examine him and Jones never took the stand again during the trial. His attorney saying this after the verdict was read today.

NORM PATTIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR ALEX JONES: Certainly, it's more than we expected. That's an understatement. But we looked very much forward to an appeal in this case.

GINGRAS: Even as the verdict came down Alex Jones on his show mocking the verdict saying he has no money. His attorney says they plan to appeal this decision. The plaintiff's attorney says they are going to fight this to the very end. Now those plaintiffs are going to also be awarded punitive damages but the amount is going to be determined at a later court date. [04:10:00]

Brynn Gingras, CNN, in Waterbury, Connecticut.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: You heard that Jones claims he doesn't have the money to pay the compensatory damages. And he's indicating even if he did, he wouldn't and called the verdict a travesty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: 57 million. 20 million. 50 million. 80 million. 100 million. Blah. Blah. You get a million. You get 100 million. You get 50 million. Do these people actually think they're going to get any money. I can keep them in court for years. I can appeal this stuff. We can stand up against this travesty against the billions of dollars they want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Meanwhile, the Sandy Hook families are feeling a sense of relief and retribution after Jones caused them so much additional trauma. They spoke to CNN's Anderson Cooper about how this verdict will help them heal.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICOLE HOCKLEY, MOTHER OF SIX-YEAR-OLD DYLAN HOCKLEY: The rush of feelings and emotions was just completely overwhelming. And I think I missed a lot after that, because I was just very much in the sort of, oh my gosh, they are really sending a message here and this is going to create change. So, it's been -- it's been such an up and down ride, especially these last few weeks, and now I'm just feeling very positive because some justice is being done.

PARKER: It's not just the families that are on this lawsuit that have been victims of Alex Jones. There are a numberless amount of people in this country, even his own listeners that have fallen victim to Alex Jones.

So, I think this number represents more than just us.

ERICA LAFFERTY, DAUGHTER OF SANDY HOOK PRINCIPAL DAWN HOCHSPRUNG: I am so thankful for the really, really strong message that was hammered down by the jury today, not just for Alex Jones but for anyone who has a sick aspiration to be like him.

BILL SHERLACH, WIFE KILLED IN SANDY HOOK MASSACRE: At the end of it all I could think about was my family and what it's been like over these last almost ten years. And again, as the other have stated, The message is a very strong one in terms of, you know, a risk/reward tradeoff for trying to do anything like this in the future.

(END VIDEOTAPE) FOSTER: For the parents and families the verdict also represents a feeling of accomplishment knowing that they did everything they could for those they lost and those who survived, too.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PARKER: For me the payoff was Alex Jones used the statement I gave years ago as a way to torture me and to profit from it. And he was forced to sit in the courtroom and listen to every word that I had to say that night. And I hadn't done that since night. And I almost forgot what it was that I shared with the world. And he had to listen to be that, and that was a huge payoff for me to get that back. And then the second I stepped off the stand I knew that I had done exactly what I need today do in this. And it didn't matter what the outcome was. That's what I gained and that was enough for me.

HOCKLEY: You know, Dylan was the center of my universe, and to have his name remain in positive ways and not be defamed, defaced, slandered is so important to me. And I really did this for my surviving son, Jake. He's been through so much pain already and he's 18 now and I want him to live in a future where he won't be harassed. Where people won't come up to him and say, oh, you were part of that Sandy Hook hoax. I want him to believe in the good of people and the power of humanity, and I'm hoping that this is going to provide that for him, that restore his faith and belief as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: The decision in Connecticut comes two months after a separate jury in Texas determined Jones and his company should award two Sandy Hook parents nearly $50 million. Later this month the judge will desired whether to reduce those punitive damages.

NATO leaders are gathering this hour in Brussels for a second day to discuss how to strengthen Ukraine's air defenses. The alliance wants to establish a coordinated system to guard against Russian strikes. U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin spoke with reporters just a short while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LLOYD AUSTIN, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: I want to applaud all of our allies and partners who stepped up to provide assistance to Ukraine. You know, Russia is in its eighth month of its unprovoked and unjust invasion of Ukraine. And since it's done that, allies have continued to step up to provide security assistance and that just speaks to the quality of this alliance and the focus of the alliance members.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[04:15:00]

FOSTER: Already France, the U.K. and the Netherlands have pledged missiles, weapons, radar systems and other air defense systems and the top U.S. general had this assessment of Russia's tactics in Ukraine. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. MARK MILLEY, CHAIRMAN, U.S. JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Russia has deliberately struck civilian infrastructure with the purpose of harming civilians. They have targeted the elderly, the women and the children of Ukraine. Indiscriminate and deliberate attacks on civilian targets is a war crime in the international rules of war. And this war is a war of choice, a war of choice by Russia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Russian President Vladimir Putin is in Kazakhstan where he will meet today with his Turkish counterpart. A Kremlin aide said Moscow expects Recep Tayyip Erdogan to officially offer to mediate peace talks between Russia and Ukraine. Turkey is a member of NATO but has stayed neutral throughout the conflict and a refrain from imposing sanctions on Russia.

On the battlefield we have new reports, meanwhile, of massive shelling in the southern Ukrainian city of Mykolaiv. The mayor posted on Telegram that a five-story residential building was hit and the two upper floors destroyed. Rescuers are on the scene searching the rubble for at least seven people who are missing.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz is following developments for us from here. I'm interested in this Turkish move. Actually, there's an element of hope there, isn't there?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Today President Putin in Kazakhstan. We've already heard from President Erdogan who gave an opening statement during this summit just this morning where he said his goal is it end the bloodshed.

There's a precedent for this already. Turkey was key in negotiating, if you remember, that grain blockade when Ukraine couldn't ship out tons of its grain and that couldn't get to the market. Turkey was key in resolving that conflict a few months ago. It was president Erdogan who was able to intervene. Throughout this conflict he's had a direct line of communication to President Putin.

As you mentioned there, staying kind of neutral during this conflict in so many ways. Not imposing sanctions. Trying to make sure that he can be a mediating force. So, this is a major step forward if, indeed, he does -- Erdogan does formalize his request to become the mediator, if you will. But the question is, how much is President Putin willing to mediate at this time.

FOSTER: And also, would Ukraine respect Turkey's role in this? Are the channels open there as well?

ABDELAZIZ: Absolutely there as well. Again, there's precedent for this. This has happened in the past. They have been the conduit. So, there is an opportunity there. But if you look at both sides of this conflict, if you look at the two warring parties, who has an interest in negotiating right now? Who has an interest in coming to the table right now? On Ukraine's side, well, their counteroffensive is working. They have

gained back hundreds of miles -- square miles of territory in recent weeks. They are absolutely have the upper hand on the battlefield.

President Putin seems steadfast in his own invasion of Ukraine. Doesn't seem to be turning course. So, the question is, is there really even an opportunity here to bring these two sides to the table. That's been ongoing for eight months. Hasn't happened yet. We'll see what goes on with this meeting today.

FOSTER: Salma, thank you.

Still to come, a Los Angeles city council member resigns over racist remarks. Two days after stepping down as president, why residents are saying it's just not enough.

Plus, Democrats locked in tight races across the U.S. hope President Biden's improving poll numbers will help them in November.

Plus, the climate crisis uncovers an ancient secret. Volcanic ash at the bottom of Lake Meade dating back more than 12 million years.

DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: The Western U.S. megadrought has uncovered some pretty superb things here in Lake Meade but what I'm about to show you after the break astonished even this scientist. Stick around.

[04:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON GOCHEZ, UNIDOS DEL BARRIO: We know these people personally. Personally. We know each other by first name basis and I don't care. They've got to go. What they did does not represent our community and it hurts our community.

CARLOS SIRAH, BLACK ALLIANCE FOR PEACE: Those leaders do not represent us, that we are in solidarity. We are with each other despite what that leakage says.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Many Los Angeles residents saying city councilmember Nury Martinez's resignation isn't enough. They want all members involved in the racism scandal to resign. Martinez stepped down on Wednesday, two days after resigning from her post as president for making racist remarks about another council member's family. CNN's Natasha Chen has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NATASHA CHEN, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Nury Martinez released a statement about her resignation on Wednesday apologizing to her staff for ending it this way. She also said, quote, it is with a broken heart that I resign my seat

for council district 6. The community I grew up in and my home.

She says she's heartbroken but so is council member Mike Bonin whose son was subject of Martinez's comments in the conversation that was secretly recorded last year and leaked over the weekend. Bonin cried as he spoke at Tuesday's council meeting saying he's raw, angry, heartbroken and sick for his family and for Los Angeles. Bonin is white and his son is black.

In the recorded conversation first obtained by the "Los Angeles Times," Martinez along with two other council members and a union leader were discussing redistricting and how to consolidate Latino political power. Martinez made comments about other races then mentioned Bonin's son. She said he was misbehaving at a Martin Luther King Day parade.

NURY MARTINEZ, LOS ANGELES CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT (recoding): It's like black and brown on this float. And there this white guy with his little black kid who's misbehaved. Este nino has no, he's not there doing the kids bouncing off the effing walls on the float, practically tipping it over there's nothing you can do to control him, parece changuito.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever try?

MARTINEZ: They're raising him like a little white kid which I was like, this kid needs a beat down like let me give me take him around the corner and then I'll bring him back.

CHEN: Martinez apologized for her comments earlier this week. The others in the conversation also apologized. But those other council members are still in their elected positions at this moment. The California Attorney General said he will now investigate the redistricting process in Los Angeles. Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[04:25:49]

FOSTER: Record low water levels in Lake Meade in Nevada and Arizona have exposed evidence of ancient eruptions. Riverbed rocks laced with volcanic ash from more than 12 million years ago. Researchers say there were several volcanic blasts from places as far away as Wyoming and California. Meteorologist Derek Van Dam joins us now. This is fascinating, isn't it?

VAN DAM: It truly is, Max. We can now add volcanic ash to the list of things that have been revealed from the megadrought that is plaguing the Western U.S. here in Lake Mead. We went from sunken ships to warships to unfortunately human remains and now volcanic ash. And I'm going to show you some of the pictures that are just absolutely astounding.

You're looking at some of the sedimentary rock that was exposed here within the recent drought conditions. And I want you to see that kind of strip of white here. We get a little bit closer perspective. And you can see kind of some of the striations in the side of the rock. That's some of the volcanic ash that have been deposited on this from, get this, over 12 million years ago.

And we said it before the break. But this is worth repeating. These are volcanic eruptions that occurred 12 million years ago but not in Nevada. We're talking about faraway places like Montana over a thousand miles away. I mean, just incredible -- all the way to Oregon. We know that there are several volcanos over the Western U.S.

And speaking of the western U.S., it's the megadrought that's brought this story to our attention. We have 73 percent of the Western U.S. in drought conditions. 19 percent of the Western U.S. classified as extreme or worse, which is some of the worst drought conditions you can get. Now this week has seen some improvement across the four corners and into southern Nevada.

But if you go back to the summer, it was bone dry. In fact, we had exceptional drought conditions in and around Then. You can see the difference in water levels. If you go back to satellite imagery from 2000, 2001 and 2022, the evaporation, the extreme use from the Colorado River. The lack of rainfall that shows just the amount of water that was depleted from Lake Meade in the past decades and unfortunately it resulted in a -- the lowest ever recorded reading here in Lake Meade at just 27 percent of its capacity at 1040 feet.

Now there has been some improvement recently. We've had beneficial rains but that's only brought the water levels up in Lake Meade by five feet. So, we still have a long way to go before we start to see some serious, meaningful improvement from the water levels there. The good news is the extended forecast here looking above average in terms of our precipitation. We'll see if we can maintain that though through the rest of the winter when we have to build up water levels over the Western parts of Nevada -- Max.

FOSTER: Derek, thank you very much, indeed.

Now a World War II era military training ground is now the latest national monument in the United States. President Biden traveled to Camp Hale, the Continental Divide in Colorado on Wednesday to sign a proclamation. The camp is located in part in the ancestral homelands of the Ute Tribes. It served as a training site of the U.S. Army's 10th Mountain Division before they deployed to the Italian Alps in the Second World War.

Now two men accused of cheating in a fishing tournament in Ohio are now facing criminal charges over the incident. They include attempted grand theft and possessing criminal tools which are felonies and a misdemeanor charge of illegally owning wild animals. The men were disqualified from the tournament for allegedly stuffing their fish with weights which would have helped them win a nearly $30,000 prize. Neither man has responded to requests for comment.

Encouraging news for Democrats ahead of the midterm elections in November. The president's poll numbers are ticking up. And Democrats hope that'll give them an edge in the Congressional election. Plus, Saudi Arabia put on notice over its decision to cut oil

production against the U.S. wishes. President Biden says the Saudis can expect to pay a steep price.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am in the process when the House and Senate get back, they're going to have to -- there's going to be some consequences for what they've done with Russia. There will be consequences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[04:30:00]