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Trump Issues Response to Recent January 6th Committee Hearing; Interview with Senator Chris Coons (D-DE) About War in Ukraine; Prosecutors Call for Probe into Theat Against Parkland Juror. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired October 14, 2022 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Obsessed with in the wake of the 2020 election. Again reiterating a lot of the false claims that we have seen from him before about the election. You know, he also sort of -- you know, in the form of Donald Trump says that the committee has not spent long enough focused on the crowd size that he got when he held his rally on January 6th.

He also includes photos around the National Mall on January 6th, again, pointing to the crowd size that he had there. You know, which is an interesting decision to make considering the number of those folks that later marched into the Capitol and led a riot at the Capitol. But this is his response that he posted on his social media page to the committee. Again, does not actually address the demand for his testimony or for documents.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, four photos here of the crowd size that day. Really, really interesting response. We'll leave it at that.

Sara Murray, thank you so much.

So let's bring back our panel of experts. Elliot Williams, Scott Jennings, John Avlon. You have been going through this page by page. So let's start with one of the first lines from this president. "A majority of people in our country say that the presidential election of 2020 was determinatively dishonest."

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That's not true. It's another lie. A majority of Republicans do, and I can understand why Donald Trump would mistake Republicans for Americans. But that's sort of part of the problem here.

Look, this is all just more evident that the former president is an unhinged liar. This is vomit. This is bluster. It is a repetition of lies that have been thoroughly debunked and an obsession with crowd size that speaks to the real weakness of Donald Trump.

GOLODRYGA: And Scott, he goes on to also say, there is -- and this is an argument he's made throughout these hearings. There is no due process, no cross-examination, no, in quotes, "real Republican members" and no legitimacy since you do not talk about election fraud or not calling up the troops. And what we always remind viewers at home is it was because he did not want this to be a bipartisan committee that it turned out the way it did where you only had Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney, that two sole Republicans on this committee.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. They are real Republicans. They're registered Republicans. They were elected to Congress as Republicans. They aren't Donald Trump Republicans. And obviously they're quarreling with him so he doesn't consider them to be real. But they are conservative. Yes, that line stuck out to me. The other thing on page two that jumped out at me is he goes through the litany of arguments about how it's not possible that he lost.

If you talk to Republicans, you do hear this sometimes, like well, it's not possible that we lost an election. Well, no, anybody can lose an election. It's quite possible. But you go through it, you know, since 1888, this that and the other. And I won this state and that state, and he uses that as evidence about how it's not possible to have lost.

No, it is quite possible. We had a massive turnout. And he did get more votes than he got in the previous election, but so did the Democrats. So did in this case Joe Biden, and what I find intriguing about it is like, they accept that he got more votes, so that more people turned out for him, but they don't accept that a single other person might have turned out for the other party.

GOLODRYGA: So I guess there was a nonresponse in terms of whether he will appear before this committee. I think we have it all here in these 14 pages.

If we can move on, though, Elliot, and talk about more of what we saw yesterday and new revelations that came out of Secret Service e-mails and messages that the committee had obtained, and it showed sort of this build-up to the anticipation of violence throughout the day. Let's just read some of these texts. One person saying gallows don't require electricity. Another saying our lawmakers in Congress can leave one of two ways. In a body bag after rightfully certifying Trump the winner.

I mean, these comments that people were spreading online and also knowing now that the Secret Service was very worried about what was to come, does that not bring further conclusive evidence tying it back to his inner circle?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: To some extent. We spent a lot of time focusing on what these texts say about criminal responsibility for the folks who sent them or anyone -- and nothing changes there. This is just more evidence of that. I actually think what this -- this is an invitation to Congress to do some more oversight of the Secret Service. They do not have an effective way of managing what their agents or senior staff do with their text messages, number one.

Number two, they don't have a clear way of really knowing, you know, of identifying threats and so on. This is a failure of government as much as it is a failure of intelligence or public safety or so on. It's just a poorly managed agency if these kinds of texts are bouncing around, and number one, they're not being turned over to Congress. So there's a number of committees in Congress that ought to be now hauling the leadership of Secret Service up and having them testify about what went wrong.

GOLODRYGA: And it's also, don't forget, we didn't include the deleted texts, right, that we didn't have access to. They had access to over a million other documents. But do you think this ultimately leads to this committee recommending that the DOJ prosecute the president?

[09:35:02]

AVLON: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Criminal referral.

AVLON: Now whether the DOJ will do that obviously is the critical question. They can recommend whatever they want. But -- and every step of the way the information that's come out that was initially sort of attempted to be suppressed shows that this was a premeditated plan. That before a single vote had been cast, they were planning to contest the election and declare victory. And so as you look at this unprecedented assault on our democracy, by a sitting president, there needs to be culpability and it should be across partisan lines.

That's what was hopeful about those videos, but, you know, and so there is plenty of important questions that we need to answer, particularly about the violence that was unleashed and the lie that was perpetrated, but what I really hope beyond our partisan bubbles filters through, the people who were lied to, the Donald Trump supporters who were lied to, many of them who attacked the Capitol, that they were lied to knowingly by the president who is perpetuating a lie. And that's just the greatest disrespect to them and our country.

WILLIAMS: You know --

GOLODRYGA: Scott --

WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. Go ahead.

GOLODRYGA: Well, I was just going to say, aside from her work with this committee, Liz Cheney has said multiple times that her number one priority is to make sure that Donald Trump never returns to the Oval Office again. Did anything that you saw yesterday and over the course of these hearings give you any indication that she could actually get that wish?

JENNINGS: You know, I don't know if she's going to be a very effective messenger to most Republican voters. I mean, I think the party is about 50-50, right. 50 percent roughly want him back and 50 percent want to do something else. The greatest impediment to her mission is just the rules of how we nominate the Republican nominee for president. And it's this winner-take-all system where in a fragmented field, you know, you can win 35 percent, 40 percent of the vote and get the nomination, which is what happened in 2016 when he got it in the first place. And so I think her effectiveness among Republicans is limited. But I

do think a lot of Republicans would rather, A, not lose another presidential election, and B, know deep down it would be better if we nominated someone else. The question is, does someone have the wherewithal to actually beat him in a primary inside this system that makes it pretty difficult.

GOLODRYGA: As of now, is there someone?

JENNINGS: I think there are people that could beat him, but inside the system in a fragmented structure, it does protect him or anybody that would bring 35 percent, 40 percent to the table to start.

GOLODRYGA: Scott Jennings, Elliot Williams, and John Avlon, always great to have you on. Both segments. A treat for me. Thank you.

Well, still ahead, we are joined by Democratic Senator Chris Coons, as the Biden administration faces challenges from Russia on several fronts now. How to support Ukraine and how to penalize Saudi Arabia.

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[09:42:13]

GOLODRYGA: Right now SpaceX CEO Elon Musk is asking the U.S. government to pick up the bill for critical services his company is providing in Ukraine. SpaceX says it can go longer fund the satellite internet service it has been providing since the early days of the war. The internet service has allowed Ukraine to maintain communication access in areas cut off by Russian attacks on infrastructure.

Musk appeared to confirm CNN's exclusive reporting this morning says that he's just following the advice of a Ukrainian diplomat who recently dismissed his proposed peace plan with a tweet saying, "F off."

So to be clear, SpaceX requested funding from the Pentagon nearly a month before this exchange. Meanwhile, Russia continues to bombard Ukraine with air strikes, today focusing on the southern city of Zaporizhzhia.

Joining me now is Senator Chris Coons a Democrat from Delaware who sits on the Foreign Relations and Judiciary Committee.

Senator, thank you so much for joining us. So let's talk about Starlink. And it has been an essential asset for the Ukrainians there on the battlefield, and they've described being their outages being catastrophic over the past few weeks, as they have gained ground and getting back some of that territory that had been taken by Russia.

I'm just curious, given this seemingly confusing, erratic, volatile, however you want to describe it, behavior by Elon Musk, the Ukrainians obviously very indebted to him for this technology. In your view, is it safe, is it wise for one man to control such crucial technology? SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Well, Bianna, as Putin continues targeting

civilians and civilian infrastructure across Ukraine with punishing missile strikes day after day after day, President Biden, leaders in the administration, leaders here in Congress are urging the rapid delivery of more sophisticated air defense systems and we have gotten positive responses from our European allies and from our military.

You raise a critical question about Elon Musk and Starlink. One of the key issues that has sustained Ukraine's effective resistance, not just their holding off Russian advances but now actually retaking significant amounts of ground, is how the Russians failed in their cybersecurity attacks to shut down Ukraine's access to the internet and their ability to communicate unit to unit on the battlefield.

And how Russia failed to take either air superiority or cyber superiority early in this conflict. So this is a challenge for all of us, for the administration, for everyone who wants to see Ukraine succeed, to have Elon Musk acting in a somewhat mercurial way, throwing out proposals for diplomatic resolution of a brutal war where frankly the only acceptable outcome should be that Ukraine continues to retake its territory from Russian invaders.

[09:45:04]

I'm hopeful that the administration will be able to work out a path forward, either through Starlink or another service to continue this vital support for Ukraine.

GOLODRYGA: So there is the possibility of the Pentagon either providing this funding or another service replacing it?

COONS: I technologically don't know whether there is a comparable service to Starlink where it is relatively easy to deliver the systems to Ukraine. Starlink is something they have relied on for months and months now. So I would have to get into the details. But I have to be optimistic that the West will continue to provide critical communications and air defense systems.

The G-7 just unanimously restated publicly their strong support for Ukraine in the face of Putin's ongoing missile attacks.

GOLODRYGA: Well, we should note that Elon Musk hasn't been funding all of this himself through SpaceX. The U.S. government and other allies have been funding Starlink throughout this war. But as the war has intensified both on the battlefield and the barrage of missiles and strikes we have seen this week into major western cities, there has been concern, heightened level perhaps, of this turning into a nuclear escalation with Vladimir Putin once again saying that this is something that the United States set the precedent for, the U.S. President Biden using words like nuclear Armageddon.

The E.U. foreign policy chief said that the Russian army would be, quote, "annihilated" if Russia was to deploy a nuke, and NATO warned of a physical response perhaps if a nuclear weapon was deployed. Are you getting any intelligence or are our allies getting intelligence that Vladimir Putin is closer to deploying a nuclear weapon today than he was a few weeks ago?

COONS: Bianna, the only insight I have got is open source insight on this exact question, which is repeated reporting that the Russians are losing on the battlefield, that Putin is increasingly desperate as his troops are retreating, abandoning positions they fought very hard to take just weeks or months ago. And that as Putin is flailing, as his troops are failing on the battlefield, there is an increased likelihood that he will use a more extreme measure.

He has been saber rattling throughout this entire conflict. He has tried to push back and brush back NATO, the United States, those who support Ukraine from around the world by threatening to cut off energy supplies, by cutting off supplies of fertilizer and food, by cutting off access to other vital resources, and by threatening the use of a tactical nuclear weapon.

We are doing everything we can to mobilize the world, including those countries that have stayed on the sidelines, like India and South Africa and China, to communicate to Putin that this would be a red line. That for Russia to be the first country since the Second World War to use nuclear weapon and the first country ever to use a nuclear weapon in a war of aggression started by Russia would isolate them completely, would lead to their being declared a terrorist nation by the world and completely isolate.

GOLODRYGA: And quickly, Senator, before I let you go, he continues to fund this war through the sale of oil. With OPEC Plus's surprising decision to slash production by two million barrels a day, the president promised a response, a consequential response. What will that be? Will he do as has been proposed ban or freeze the sale of arms to Saudi Arabia for a year?

COONS: Well, Bianna, the Foreign Relations Committee here in the Senate also has a role in that, and I think it's unlikely that we will support any additional arms sales to the Saudis. This was a punch in the gut for us at this moment to have a long-standing partner like Saudi Arabia help Russia fund their war of aggression against Ukraine was a very bitter disappointment and a big surprise.

I think you'll see both the administration and the Senate take action and one of the most likely actions is to stop any future arms sales.

GOLODRYGA: Making some news there. Senator Chris Coons, thank you. Great to see you. We appreciate your time.

COONS: Thank you, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: And still ahead, did a juror in the Parkland shooter trial inappropriately pressure another juror? That's the focus for the prosecution this morning. We'll go to Florida live next for the very latest.

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[09:54:02] GOLODRYGA: New this morning, prosecutors in the Parkland shooting trial want law enforcement to interview a juror who said they felt threatened by another juror during deliberations. That 12-person panel recommended the convicted gunman be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole yesterday.

CNN's Carlos Suarez is there in Florida.

So, Carlos, what are the families of the victims saying about this new information?

CARLOS SUAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bianna, good morning. So the family members, they're upset and it appears that several members of the jury are also upset. There is a 1:30 hearing that is scheduled for today where the state, the prosecution is expected to ask the judge to ask lawmaker to interview a juror who said that she felt threatened by another juror during deliberation.

Now it is unclear exactly how this juror voted. According to CNN affiliate WFOR here in Miami, there were three no votes against the death penalty. One of them it appears was steadfast in their decision.

[09:55:03]

The family members yesterday, they all expressed a great deal of frustration and anger about the jury's decision. A lot of them were surprised by the fact that the jury only deliberated for about a day. Here now are one of the Parkland family members.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LONI ALHADEFF, MOTHER OF PARKLAND SHOOTING VICTIM ALYSSA ALHADEFF: I just don't understand how quickly they came to this decision. They had time and they really should have gone through the evidence. It almost makes me feel like that there was somebody that already had this notion that they were going to have life in prison. That they were never going to give the death penalty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SUAREZ: OK, so looking ahead, the victims' family members, they're all going to get one more opportunity to address the court on November 1st. That is when the judge is going to formally sentence Nikolas Cruz to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Bianna, it is important to note that in order for the jury to have come back with a death penalty verdict, all 12 members of the jury needed to have come back with a yes on all of the 17 or at least one of the 17 counts. In the end, again, there was one to three holdouts on all of the charges which is why Cruz is going to die in prison. Again, that hearing is scheduled to take place at 1:30 this afternoon. Exactly what will come of it is still unclear.

The juror in the question contacted the state's attorney office yesterday after the verdict was read. Their name was identified and the details of the allegation themselves was not laid out in the motion that was filed by the state -- Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: It's just been so incredibly painful and emotional for these families all these years later.

Carlos Suarez, thank you.

And still ahead, Donald Trump's response to the January 6th Select Committee. We're joined by a former Trump White House attorney. That is up next.

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