Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Issues Response To Recent Jan 6 Committee Hearing; New Video Shows Lawmakers Scrambling To Save The Capitol; Evidence Shows Trump's Premediated Plan To Declare Victory. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired October 14, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: Good morning, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga. Our top story this hour, Former President Trump unleashing a lengthy angry response, this morning after the January 6 Committee voted to subpoena him for documents and testimony under oath in connection with the Capital riot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): We are obligated to seek answers directly from the man who set this all in motion. And every American is entitled to those answers so we can act now to protect our Republic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: In his response posted on Truth Social Trump reiterated many of the very same lines we've heard for years now. Once again, falsely claiming that the election was stolen. But it's still unclear if he will comply. Also, we're now seeing new footage exclusively obtained by CNN, never before seen video of congressional leaders responding in the moment of chaos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Why don't you get the president to tell them to leave the Capitol, Mr. Attorney General and your law enforcement responsibility, a public statement, they should all leave?

JEFFREY ROSEN, FORMER ACTING U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: So, so, as you might guess we're coordinating as quickly as -

SCHUMER: No, no, no, please answer my question. Answer my question.

GOLODRYGA: All of this is we're learning shocking new evidence that former President Donald Trump had a premeditated plan devised before any votes had even been counted to declare victory no matter what the election results were.

GREG JACOB, FORMER COUNSEL TO VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Mark had indicated to me that there was a possibility that there would be a declaration of victory within the White House that some might push for. And this is prior to the election results being known. VOICE OF STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: And what Trump's going to do is just declare victory, right? He's going to declare a victory. But that doesn't mean he's the winner. He's just going to say he's the winner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: But in the end, Trump did know he lost.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE AIDE: So he said something to the effect of I don't want people to know we've lost, Mark. This is embarrassing. Figure it out. We need to figure it out. I don't want people to know that we lost.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: CNN has obtained exclusive never before seen video that captures the moments before and after the Capitol riot. The video was shot by Alexandra Pelosi, a documentary filmmaker and daughter of the Speaker Nancy Pelosi. Parts of the behind the scenes footage were used by the January 6 Select Committee during Thursday's hearing. CNN's Kristen Holmes breaks down the exclusive video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's never before seen footage. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi shown fleeing the U.S. Capitol as it was under attack on January 6. The video's captured by her daughter Alexandra Pelosi, a documentary filmmaker.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): We have got to finish the proceedings or else they will have a complete victory.

HOLMES: She provided some of her footage to the January 6 Select Committee who played clips in their hearing, Thursday. But in the roughly hour of additional footage obtained exclusively by CNN, we see lawmakers transforming Fort McNair, a military base two miles away into a command center to communicate with Vice President Mike Pence and others.

Even considering reconvening the congressional proceedings at the military base.

PELOSI: You're being told it could take days to clear the Capitol, and that we should be more than everyone here to get the job done. We're at (BEEP) which has facilities for the House and the Senate to meet. We'd rather go to the capitol and do it there but it doesn't seem to be safe.

HOLMES: While Pence evacuated the Senate chamber he stayed behind in the Capitol with his security detail.

PELOSI: I worry about you being in that Capitol. Don't let anybody know where you are. [10:05:00]

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): I'd like to know a good goddamn reason why it's been denied.

HOLMES: Then Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer shouting at army Secretary Ryan McCarthy after hearing a rumor Trump blocked the National Guard going to the Capitol.

SCHUMER: Please move. The whole Capitol is rampaged, there's a picture of someone sitting in this chair the Senate. We've all been evacuated, there have been shots fired. We need a full National Guard component now. She said it was not - I'm going to call up the F-ing secretary of DOD.

HOLMES: A group of lawmakers including Republican leaders representative Kevin McCarthy and Senator Mitch McConnell, calling Acting Defense Secretary Christopher Miller urging a faster response.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): - by getting there in one hell of a hurry, you understand?

CHRISTOPHER MILLER, ACTING DEFENSE SECRETARY: I got you loud and clear, Leader.

HOLMES: And Pelosi and Schumer also confronting Acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen in a heated phone call.

SCHUMER: No, no, no, please answer my question. Answer my question.

ROSEN: Senator, I'm going to do everything I can do.

SCHUMER: Does that include asking the president to get these people who are followers of ours to leave the Capitol?

HOLMES: Finally, word coming from Pence that it was safe to return.

MIKE PENCE, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: We're literally standing with the U.S. Capitol Police. He just informed me their best information is that they believe that the House and the Senate will be able to reconvene in roughly an hour.

SCHUMER: Good news.

HOLMES: Which they did just after 8pm.

PENCE: Let's get back to work.

HOLMES: The footage also showing Pelosi before the attack.

PELOSI: And let us hope that they will see the light and have their own epiphany on the other side.

HOLMES: Participating in a video call with House Democrats from our conference room. The same room that was ransacked hours later by rioters. DONALD J. TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to walk down to the Capitol.

PELOSI: Tell if he come here, we're going to the White House.

HOLMES: Pelosi later seen reacting to Trump's speech.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can see them marching up.

HOLMES: And the rioters making their way towards the capitol.

TERRI MCCULLOUGH, CHIEF OF STAFF: Secret Service said they have dissuaded him from coming to Capitol Hill. They told him they don't have the resources. in free services said they have dissuaded him from coming to Capitol Hill. They told him they don't have the resources to protect him here. So at the moment, he is not coming but that could change.

PELOSI: (inaudible) I'm going to punch him now. We're waiting for this. For trespassing on the Capitol grounds. I'm going to punch him out, I'm going to go to jail and I'm going to be happy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: I'm going to punch him out and I'm going to go to jail and I'm going to be happy. Those are remarkable words to hear from the Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi talking about President Trump at that time. But beyond that there's one other part of that document that we've just talked to me about footage that we just saw. And that was the moment between Pence and Pelosi.

You hear her asking him how he is being concerned about his safety. What's really interesting to note there is what we've learned was going on at the White House at Pence's White House with Trump, the president who picked Pence.

He was sitting there ignoring the fact that Pence was in danger and instead tweeting out that Pence didn't have the courage to do what should be done. So looking at the two of them side by side, it's really remarkable to see those reactions.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, it really is incredible footage. Kristen Holmes, thank you. Let's discuss all of this. Joining me now former Trump White House lawyer Jim Schulz, Senior Editor for The Atlantic Ron Brownstein and former Federal Prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers.

Ron, can I start with you? Because the Republican narrative for so long following January 6 was that Nancy Pelosi was nowhere to be found that that she wasn't doing her job. What we saw in this video was that she was there, she was on the phone with everyone.

Chuck Schumer sitting with - standing with her but - but many Republican leaders there as well. So that argument was - was based on I guess, a lie. I don't know how else to describe it. RON BROWNSTEIN, SENIOR EDITOR, THE ATLANTIC: Yes, I mean, you see the urgency in on the part of so many leaders of Congress, as you say in both parties, and the difficulty they are having getting the Trump administration to respond, you know, kind of reinforcing from the other side, the testimony that the committee obtained of Trump sitting, watching for hours and resisting, doing anything to undo the riot.

Telling Kevin McCarthy, these people care more about the steal than you do. I mean, this is just a powerful moment in additional kind of angle, it's almost like - it's almost like seeing the same events from the other angle. And getting that kind of triangulation of vision that really underscores the portrait and makes the point, I think, unequivocally clear that that Trump turned away and effectively abetted the attack by allowing it to persist without intervening.

GOLODRYGA: And of course, Jim, the hearing yesterday culminated with the committee unanimously voting to subpoena the president. So I'm going to ask you this question, two questions actually.

[10:10:00]

One if you were still the president's attorney would you advise him to comply with the subpoena and speak before the committee and two with someone who knows him knows him aside from whatever advice you may offer, do you think he would do it anyway?

JIM SCHULZ, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: I served in the White House and was the - was a White House Counsel lawyer. I wasn't a personal counsel for the President. I believe that the personal lawyers for the president will likely begin negotiations of some kind with Congress in terms of whether he's going to testify at all, what's the scope of the testimony, those types of things.

That's what I believe his lawyers we'll be doing today and in the coming weeks. I've heard rumblings that he, you know, he's - he's said things like, he's, he, he would - he would like to appear before Congress and - and have his say. I've - I believe that he, you know, he should, if he's doing anything, he should be listening to his lawyers and taking their advice - advice before he is, you know, going off and speaking out of turn.

GOLODRYGA: And Jennifer, we also know that this is a president who likes to kick the can down the road and buy time and time is not necessarily on this committee's side now with the midterms coming in House leadership, likely to turn over to Republicans.

JENNIFER RODGERS, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes, I mean, personally, I think that the House's request for him is just to say that they've done that, right. They've given him the opportunity now to respond and to be heard on the record. They know that at this late date, there's no way in the world even if he were willing to come and testify that it's going to happen.

I think they're going to stop - start talking about scheduling, start talking about potential privileges. Before you know it, it's all over and he didn't make it.

GOLODRYGA: What were some of the other big takeaways you had from the committee yesterday.

RODGERS: I thought it was another impressive hearing from the committee. I liked the Pelosi footage that we saw, I thought that the information about the Secret Service and the very specific threats of violence they were getting was important. And I liked the way that they refocused the center of it as Trump.

You know, first it was he's obviously the center because he's the beneficiary. But they really made the point that he's the center because he was the primary actor, and he was the one who conceived of the plot. And he was operationally involved in all of the different strands of this plot. I thought they did that effectively, particularly the juxtaposition of when he would be told by someone like a Bill Barr, specifically, we saw that testimony, this fraud that you're claiming happened, it did not happen, for example, you know, suitcases stuffed full of ballots.

And then literally the very next day, he's out there, again, in public talking about suitcases full of ballots. So I thought that that juxtaposition was really effective.

GOLODRYGA: And Ron, you did here, Roger Stone, Tom Fitton in this narrative that there was a plan hatched prior to even election day to just declare victory no matter what the outcome was that night.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, that was another brick, I think in the most important wall that the committee built over the course of the hearings. I think it fundamentally changed the frame in which we understand the events of that day. I think, originally, a lot of the focus was on the idea that the President, then President Trump, in a fit of pique or anger, or kind of recklessness, you know, ignited, inspired this crowd to go down and tear apart the Capitol for no, you know, kind of no - no purpose other than - than anger and pique.

But in fact, what the committee has done, I think, extraordinarily effectively is show that the attack on January 6, was in fact, the culmination of a multi-month, multi-pronged effort to overturn the election that as this final bit of evidence points out began even before the votes are counted.

I mean, even before the votes were cast, they were planning to declare that they won no matter what, planning to discredit the result. And then they work through multiple avenues over multiple months, through an incredible range of actors within the Republican Party who were willing to participate to do that.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And Jim, to that point, most of these witnesses, they were all within the President's inner circle. They were Republicans, they work closely with the President and to hear again repeatedly that the President, you know, his narrative had been that he thinks he wins - he won, and no matter what evidence is presented to him, he's convinced he won. But now we heard from two witnesses just yesterday, that behind the scenes, he knew that he lost. He called it quote, embarrassing. I believe, he told Alyssa Farah Griffith, that he couldn't believe that he lost it to this blinking guy meaning Biden. So what does that do to his story?

SCHULZ: Look, I think that's all very damaging testimony. And I think the thing to be concerned about is you heard yesterday that Marc Short, the Vice President's former chief of staff was heading into the Grand Jury once again. I think that's the - that's the what the president should be most concerned about is what the Justice Department is doing, not what Congress is doing at this time.

The Congress collects everything in generalities, and not - they don't really nail down the specifics. When you get in the grand jury, you start seeing the specifics and that when it really - the rubber really hits the road.

[10:15:00]

The other thing I'd like to comment on is that you know that Vice President Pence that day hunkered down there didn't get in the secret service vehicle, you know, served in a - in a strong leadership role, was communicating with the other leaders from Congress in a way that the Vice President should have been so that he could get in there and do his job that day.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, he did his job. We saw him as Kristen Holmes noted in that video on the phone with Nancy Pelosi, where she was asking and worried about his safety. Clearly not what - what the president at the time was doing. Panel, stay with us, Jim, Ron and Jennifer. We will be back right after this break.

And up next we're going to discuss what's next for the January 6 committee with concerns from members that some witnesses have been less than truthful in their testimonies. And later, it's one of the most high profile Senate races and tonight Democratic senator Raphael, Warnock and his Republican challenger Herschel Walker will square off in their first and only debate just hours - just days before early voting begins in Georgia.

Plus Raleigh Police releasing new details in a mass shooting that left five people dead. What we're learning about the 15-year old suspect, that's straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:20:00]

GOLODRYGA: CNN has learned that House Republicans are holding back their rebuttal to the January 6 Select Committee's final hearing before the midterms, marking a shift in strategy after responding to a previous hearings in a quick and aggressive fashion. CNN's Melanie Zanona joins me now from Capitol Hill with more on her reporting. So Melanie, what's next? And when will the House GOP issue a rebuttal? MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, Republicans have been working on their own investigation that has been narrowly focused on the security failures on January 6, and does not really look into Donald Trump's role. In fact, we're expecting this report to try to blame Speaker Nancy Pelosi for some of those security failures.

But I'm told the report on that is complete, but Republicans are saving it for whenever the Select Committee unveils their final report so it can serve as sort of a counter programming effort. But as far as the Select Committee, we may have seen the final public investigative hearing yesterday, but they are still planning to investigate in the weeks and months ahead.

And one big area that they plan to still look into is Trump's interactions with the Secret Service on January 6, and particularly whether there was any obstruction of justice related to some of that testimony.

As you may recall, Cassidy, Hutchinson testified that Tony Ornato, who was the head of Trump's security detail, told her the story about this heated exchange between Trump and his Secret Service on January 6, where he's demanded to go to the Capitol and then he tried to lunge towards a steering wheel.

But Pete Aguilar was asked about this on air earlier today, and he didn't quite buy that story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PETE AGUILAR (D-CA): I think that they were less than truthful. And I think that they should come in and talk to the committee again. We said in the - in the hearing yesterday that we would recall a number of witnesses. I think I'll leave it at that. But I'll say what I've said before, which is that those - those two individuals either have the foggiest of memories, or they were less than truthful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZANONA: Now, Pete Aguilar was referencing Tony Ornato's denial of that account that he allegedly told to Cassidy Hutchinson. So they are going to bring in more witnesses, any new information that the Select Committee learns, will likely be included in their final report. And of course, the other big question looming over the committee is whether they will issue criminal referrals for either Donald Trump or anyone in his inner circle.

That is something that is certainly a possibility but just has not been decided yet, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: It's something at the end of the day just up for DOJ to decide on. Melanie Zanona, thank you. Well, let's bring back our panel of experts Jim Schulz, Ron Brownstein, Jennifer Rodgers. So Jennifer, what did you make of Aguilar there saying that they may rebring, bring back some witnesses and requestion them the questions about obstruction, perhaps of witnesses, what do you make of that? And what more could they be learning? RODGERS: You know, the committee has been so impressive the way that they've been able to gather so much information with the frankly not very strong tools that they have at their disposals. We know their subpoenas aren't nearly as powerful as DOJ's subpoenas. So you know, good for them. They're really trying to get to the bottom of this with the limited amount of time they have left. I don't know what they'll be able to learn.

But what we've seen is they've been able to give DOJ avenues of investigation. And we of course, don't know what's going on behind the scenes. But we've seen the committee look into something, provide evidence and then you've seen hints coming out the DOJ is looking into the same thing. So you know, good for them for continuing to work hard. I'm sure that anything they are able to collect, DOJ then can pick up on when they move forward with their much more powerful tools and investigation.

GOLODRYGA: Jim, were you surprised to see that the hearing end with the committee subpoenaing the former president?

SCHULZ: No, there was no downside for them to doing that. I think that - that was something that wasn't surprising, quite frankly, at all. I think it will continue to boil for some time between the president's lawyers and Congress. And I do agree someone said this earlier in the show that this is going to be delay, delay delay, no doubt about it. That's going to be the tactic from the president side, the former presidents side of the - side - from President's team.

So I think that's what we can expect. I don't think we'll see the former president testifying before the election coming up. And once Congress switches in January, if the Republicans prevail, you'll probably never see him testify.

GOLODRYGA: Ron, what do you make of the committee not issuing a subpoena for former Vice President Mike Pence?

[10:25:00]

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think they you know they want to keep the issue as focused as they can and I think if you look at the larger question of where we are, people who study threats to democracy internationally, and you know this as well talk about the importance of prosecuting, holding people accountable for actions that undermine democracy, that are against the rule of law, and that the committee has made a pretty powerful case that Donald Trump needs to be held personally accountable for what happened in this month long plot to overturn the election.

The challenge is, is it seems the threat to democracy has metastasized way beyond this individual, the idea that if you remove Donald Trump from the equation, we go back to a pre, you know, a pre-2016 state where both parties are equally committed to the to the functioning democracy.

And in fact, you know, there are over 200 election deniers who have been nominated for office in Republican primaries, and in multiple states, there are election deniers who are in position to win control over the administration of the 2024 election. So whatever happens to Donald Trump, this challenge is not going away and the willingness of Republican leaders to stand up against it within their own party, is the big question.

How many will accept the Liz Cheney line of not supporting election deniers who they agree with on other issues?

GOLODRYGA: Well, one of the election deniers we didn't hear from yesterday was Ginni Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice, Clarence Thomas, what do you make of that? Because we know that that she did speak to them.

RODGERS: What I make of it is that they didn't - she didn't give them anything worthwhile. Right? We know, the reporting came out that she continued to say that she had questions about the 2020 election, which of course, is not something that the committee necessarily wants to highlight. But what I take from that is that she just didn't give them any facts that are that are worth elevating to the national stage.

GOLODRYGA: All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us, as always, to our panel, Jennifer Rodgers, Jim Schulz, Ron Brownstein. We appreciate it. Have a great weekend.

Well, only about seven points separate Raphael Warnock and Herschel Walker in the latest poll from Georgia voters. But what's the likelihood that tonight's first and only debate will sway those undecided? We'll discuss that up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)