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Parkland Families Outraged After Killer Escapes Death Sentence; Western Sanctions Hurting Russia's Ability To Replenish Military Supplies, Intelligence Analysis Shows; ACT Testing Scores For HS Class Of 2022 Lowest In 30 Plus Years. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired October 14, 2022 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MARY-ANN BALDWIN, RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA: We have to do something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Yes, Victor and Erica, we want to walk through parts of this neighborhood. And one of the things we noticed, we're nestled between a golf course. There are people who are still out enjoying their day, who couldn't understand why they couldn't come through here while police were doing their investigation because they didn't even realize that this shooting was so close to them. The real question right now is that young man who's obviously still in the hospital, they want to ask the question in this community, why? Why did those gunshots have to ring out yesterday? Why did it have to go through more than two miles of this community? So many questions that are left unanswered, so many things we want to continue to dig on. But police right now working to try to get to the bottom of it.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: And so many families forever impacted by those bullets. Ryan, thank you.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Thank you, Ryan.

We're turning now to the aftermath of the 2018 mass shooting in Parkland, Florida. A hearing ended just minutes ago. Now Florida State prosecutors told the judge about a juror who was threatened or at least felt threatened by another juror in the sentencing trial of shooter Nikolas Cruz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLYN MCCANN, ASSISTANT FLORIDA STATE ATTORNEY: Prosecutor cannot ignore a phone call that a threat has been made and that the person is frightened. And the reason I use the word frighten is that the support staff member who took the call said that the person who left the message was upset and then said that they seemed frightened.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLACKWELL: The judge is now allowing the prosecutor to turn over information to the sheriff's office to investigate. Well, yesterday family members of the 17 killed in the high school massacre were outraged by the decision to not recommend the death penalty for Cruz. My next guest said that the jury and the system failed. Fred Guttenberg's daughter, Jamie, was just 14 years old when she was killed.

Fred, I thank you for being back with me. I was watching as the verdicts were being read. And by the time they got to Jamie, there was a trend obviously on the death penalty versus life. But I saw you there staring up at the ceiling. And as it was being read, what were you thinking and feeling?

FRED GUTTENBERG, DAUGHTER JAIME GUTTENBERG KILLED IN FL SCHOOL SHOOTING: First, hey, Victor. You know, I spent the past almost five years now getting myself ready for this moment that happened yesterday, mentally and physically. But I guess I didn't get myself ready enough because I really did expect the death penalty.

And I just didn't see any way especially after having sat through the trial that it could have been anything but. And I was just looking up at the ceiling, kind of towards the sky, and in my head talking to my kid, and again, apologizing for a system that again failed her, that again failed everyone who died with her that day.

We're going to keep fighting. We're going to keep doing what we can because of what happened to those we love. But yesterday the system fell.

BLACKWELL: We've got some insight into the deliberations. The jury foreman spoke with CNN's Miami affiliate about it. And he said and this is a quote, the woman who was a hard no, and being a no on the death penalty didn't believe because he was mentally ill, speaking of Nicholas Cruz, that he should get the death penalty. What's your reaction to that?

GUTTENBERG: Something happened in the jury room, but that particular person sounds like she may have been a hard no for a long time. I sat through every day of that trial. While it is true that Nikolas Cruz has some documented mental illnesses, not everybody with a documented mental illness turns into a killer. Killers turn into killers. Evil people turn into killers. And so I reject it completely. He is an evil person with no redeemable value and no purpose left on Earth.

The truth is he still continues to sit in his jail cell and this evidence was presented at the trial, thinking about people he wished he could have killed and would still like to kill. This is not about mental illness. And I find it insulting that the defense put on the cases they did and I would even argue failed because the state did prove their case. And every defense witness fell apart under cross examination. Why that juror? What to the place that they went is up -- it's for them to explain but it's despicable.

[14:35:05] BLACKWELL: What's your reaction to what happened in the courtroom just a few minutes ago, there's this juror who says that they felt threatened by another juror. Now we don't know if this is the same juror who sent a letter to the judge saying that things became tense earlier on during deliberations where they said that they mentioned that they would vote for life. And they felt that there was some pushback, extreme unhappiness in the jury room. But what do you think about that claim?

GUTTENBERG: Yes, well, and I listened to the hearing that happened literally, just before we came on. It sounds like the state attorney was saying, the person who reached out saying there was a threat was not the same juror that we're talking about. So something went on in that jury deliberation. I don't know what it is. But if in fact, it affected the outcome, we need to know.

If in fact, any juror felt at risk in that room, we need to know. I don't think it's going to change anything. I think the person who viewed the monster who murdered my daughter is going to go to hell on earth. He's going to go to a terrible prison. And I think, you know, on the one of the strangest moments of the trial, his defense attorney, during her closing summation said that somebody in prison will probably just take care of him anyway. I hope she was right.

BLACKWELL: Fred, you said after the decision was read that you were going to the cemetery to visit Jamie, because obviously, that's where you have to go because Nikolas Cruz, killed her as you reminded us. What did you say?

GUTTENBERG: Yes, and I don't use his name.

BLACKWELL: Yes, I know you didn't, I am. But what did you say? What did you do when you went there?

GUTTENBERG: So I didn't get there yesterday, because all of the families and my family and the attorneys stayed at the courthouse until well into the afternoon, and then it was pouring rain. I will be going there though, this evening, when it cools down a little bit. And I'm going to tell Jamie the truth. I'm going to tell her what happened. And for those who know, I go to the cemetery frequently. And if you were to ever drive by me and watch it, I have full on conversations with my daughter. And I'm going to tell her the truth.

And I'm going to tell her that I will keep fighting for justice, that I will keep fighting to prevent this from happening ever again. I will tell her how much I love her. I will tell her how much I miss her. And I just will tell her I'm sorry that yesterday went the way it did.

BLACKWELL: Well, Fred, we've spoken many times over these last several years since the shooting and I know that your fight will even after this decision will continue. Fred Guttenberg, thank you.

GUTTENBERG: Thank you.

[14:38:22] HILL: In a rare news conference, Russian President Vladimir Putin is offering a stark new warning about a global catastrophe. More on that, next.

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HILL: Russian President Vladimir Putin has no regrets when it comes to his invasion of Ukraine and that includes the recent rash of strikes on civilians he calls recent events quote unpleasant, though says he doesn't see a need for any massive new strikes on Ukraine for now.

BLACKWELL: He also issued another ominous warning, if NATO troops clashed directly with Russian forces and it could lead to a global catastrophe. The Ukrainian forces continue to gain ground in Kherson in Ukraine South. Russia says now that it will help move civilians in Kherson to the Rostov region. Our CNN's Frederik Pleitgen joins us now from Kyiv. Fred, how do these comments from Putin match up with what is happening there on the ground in Ukraine?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there Victor. Well, one of the things that we haven't seen a lot of today regarding Vladimir Putin's comments as far as those strikes are concerned, and allegedly, the Russians not needing any of those massive strikes, we have indeed seen less Russian strikes the air raid sirens here in the capital of Kyiv, apparently around the country, it has gone down a little bit as well, although there were some Russian strikes in the south of the country that certainly caused some damage there in the southern city called Zaporizhzhia.

But U.S. officials believed that might have a different reasons. They believe that Russia has already burned through large piles of its stockpiles of modern weapons. You're talking about modern cruise missiles, also ballistic missiles as well but then also modern ground vehicles. And one of the problems the Russians appear to also have the U.S. believes is replenishing their stocks. And that's due to the international sanctions not just by the U.S. but of course also by the U.S.'s allies and other countries as well.

The Russians having a lot of trouble getting modern technology to even build those weapons anymore, computer chips, obviously, one of the big things that Russians are having trouble getting, and the U.S. believes that, you know, the Russians are currently trying to find ways to evade the sanctions to get their hands on these things, but it's certainly does seem to be proving quite difficult for them. But you're absolutely right, the Russian president is saying that the Russians don't -- believe they don't need more of these strikes.

[14:45:08]

But he also gave a strong warning where he said he believes that any confrontation with NATO could lead to a catastrophe. Let's listen into what he had to say,

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIA (through translator): Bringing some NATO troops into direct contact, into direct clash with the Russian army is a very dangerous step that could lead to a global catastrophe. I hope that those who talk about this will have enough common sense not to take such dangerous steps.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: So they are some strong words there from Vladimir Putin. And I was actually able to speak to a Ukrainian official about these things that Vladimir Putin is saying about the dangers and all this rhetoric also about possible nuclear strikes as well. And he was saying to the Ukrainians, that's just not something that they can factor in at this point in time. They say they're going to try and continue their counter offensive to win back as much territory as they can. Of course, we've noted that one of the places where they're doing that is in the south around Kherson, Victor.

HILL: Fred Pleitgen with the very latest for us from Kyiv. Appreciate it. Thanks, Fred.

BLACKWELL: The high school class of 2022, listen to this, had the lowest ACT scores in more than 30 years. Now this is the latest sign of how much the pandemic has impacted education in the U.S. We'll talk about potential solutions to this troubling slide, next.

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[14:50:37]

HILL: ACT test scores among high school seniors are down dramatically this year, in fact, at the lowest level we've seen since 1991. So the ACT, of course, is one of the standardized tests used for college admissions. And while the organization behind the test scores have been trending down for five years, they do note the pandemic likely played a significant role when it comes to what they saw with the class of 2022. Rose Babbington is the ACT Senior Director for State Partnerships and joins us now. Rose, it's good to have you with us. You know, there's this increasing evidence which we've seen about the lasting impact of the pandemic, on students and children when it comes to learning. This drop, though, if it actually started five years ago, I mean, this must signal a larger issue.

ROSE BABINGTON, SENIOR DIRECTOR, STATE PARTNERSHIP AT ACT: You're absolutely right, Erica. And thank you for having me on today to really shine a light on the story that this data tells not just about the class of 2022, but about a longer systemic inequity in American education. When we look at this year's graduating class, the average ACT composite score was a 19.8, which dropped half a points from the prior year.

And what that shows us is certainly that this class of 2022, who were sophomores in March 2020, when the pandemic began, and schools closed, significantly felt the impact of the pandemic on their high school careers. But what we're seeing in terms of this longer trend has to do with a five year decline, and again, seeing the lowest scores that we've seen in 30 years. HILL: I mean, if this doesn't make alarm bells go off for folks at home, I don't know what would when we have because it's the data, right, we've heard anecdotally. But more and more we're seeing this data, I want to drill down a little bit more of this because the company also said more than 40 percent of last year seniors didn't meet any not a single one of the college readiness benchmarks. We're talking about proficiency in English, math, science, and reading. Is it your sense that these issues are actually being addressed?

BABINGTON: Well, I would say the power of the data is what we've always talked about with state schools, districts, educators, and with students and families. And when we look at the benchmark attainment, what we're really talking about are standards and skills, key foundational skills that students are going to need in their first year of college and in their careers to be successful. So as we look at some of those gaps over this year, and over the past two years, we're identifying some key areas for improvement. And certainly, we see this data as one of the puzzle pieces for schools and districts and states to close those gaps.

HILL: Rose Babington appreciate you joining us today. Thank you.

[14:53:29]

BLACKWELL: Officials are increasingly concerned about this year's flu season, there are new signs that cases are on the rise and higher than normal this year or at least for this time of year, what you need to know, ahead.

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BLACKWELL: Now to his story you will see first on CNN, a pro Trump operative who was caught on video participating in a Georgia voting system breach after the 2020 election has testified before the special grand jury investigating efforts to overturn the election results in that state.

HILL: CNN's Zach Cohen is covering these developments for us. So what more do we know about this Zach?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Erica and Victor, what we're talking about is a man named Scott Hall. And Scott Hall, as you mentioned, isn't one of the operatives who was seen on surveillance video entering the Coffee County Georgia elections office one day after the January 6th insurrection. Now that breach is under a criminal investigation in Georgia. But we also know now that the district attorney investigating efforts by Trump and his allies in Georgia to overturn the election results there is specifically looking and gathering evidence about the breach itself.

Now this is really a new phase in the investigation about what we're learning about the criminal investigation in Georgia. Hall is an interesting character. He is a bail bondsman by trade but was also a poll watcher after the 2020 election. But we're learning to now that he has contacts with both high level Republicans in the state of Georgia as well as members of Trump's inner circle. Now, we've obtained e-mails through court documents that show he was in direct contact and getting reference or getting referred to state officials by the head of the Republican Party in Georgia, David Shafer. We also show that David Schaper was introduced to Scott Hall by his brother-in-law who is named David Bossy (ph). The man who was tapped initially to lead Trump's election lawsuit challenges in places like Georgia.

So we're really learning new details about the scope of the investigation in Georgia and it's honing in on Trump and his allies efforts to overturn the results there both through the fake electors plot and also by getting access to voting systems there.

[15:00:08]

HILL: Zach Cohen appreciate it, thank you.