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Trump Not Saying If He Will Comply With Jan. 6 CMTE's Subpoena; Evidence Shows Secret Service Knew Of Threat Long Before Attack; Walker Debates Warnock Tonight In Tight GA Race For Senate. Aired 3- 3:30p ET

Aired October 14, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: They're both through the fake electors' plot and also by getting access to voting systems there.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR AND NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Zach Cohen, appreciate it. Thank you.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. Good to have you. I'm Victor Blackwell.

HILL: And I'm Erica Hill.

Former President Trump issuing a 14-page, I guess you would call a non-response to the Committee investigating the January 6 insurrection. Of course, this letter that was - that came out this morning was in response to the Committee's unanimous vote to serve him with a subpoena.

He hasn't yet actually addressed the subpoena to say whether he would comply with that demand for documents and testimony. But in this letter to Committee Chair Bennie Thompson, Trump doubled down on his claims which have been debunked that the 2020 election was stolen.

BLACKWELL: In the Committee's final hearing before the November midterms, lawmakers also share testimony that they said link the Trump World to right-wing extremists along with new evidence from the Secret Service agents and show never before seen footage of congressional leaders scrambling to respond to the attacks from a makeshift bunker.

HILL: Joining us now CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju and CNN Law Enforcement Correspondent Whitney Wild.

Manu, first to you, this video was really something both it was shown during the hearing and then what CNN-obtained exclusively as well. How are lawmakers, especially Republican lawmakers, responding today to both what was revealed at the hearing and, of course, also to the subpoena?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, not much from Republicans and I believe there's been a bit of shift in strategy about how they would deal with revelations from the Select Committee for some time. Initially, if you recall, Kevin McCarthy, the Republican leader actually wanted to name Republicans to the Committee, Nancy Pelosi, the House Speaker rejected two names to the Committee because one of them, Jim Jordan, in particular was a potential fact witness, given that he had spoke with Donald Trump on the day of January 6th.

After that move, then Kevin McCarthy pulled out all of his picks, which is why we're the situation where we are now with seven Democrats, two Republicans who have broken with party leadership as part of this committee.

Now, when the first hearings started this summer, the Republicans tried to be more vocal, tried to be critical, tried to push back, offer their view of things. And now as we have - these hearings have wound down and then we're in a few weeks before the midterm elections, they are banking and hoping that voters will not punish them for anything regarding January 6th and instead will focus on economic issues like inflation and alike, so they decided to ignore yesterday's proceedings almost entirely.

Now, some Republicans did respond, though, including Elise Stefanik who's a member of the Republican leadership at packing the Committee rather than getting into the merits of what was found yesterday saying, "Pelosi's illegal and SHAM January 6th Committee is an unconstitutional witch-hunt against President Trump and the American people."

Now this committee, of course, was approved by party line - at a mostly party line vote in the House to create this panel. Her Twitter account by the House Republican conference got in some hot water earlier this summer when it attacked one of the witnesses, Sarah Matthews, at the time. But this time Republicans deciding, staying mostly quiet and instead focusing on the economies in the run up to the midterms, guys.

BLACKWELL: Whitney, there was also plenty of new evidence revealed by the Committee from the Secret Service. Tell us about that.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, what the Committee presented was more information that the Secret Service had a wealth of social media chatter. They were monitoring a wealth of social media chatter that was being sent to them by their law enforcement partners, as well as real time assessments among their own agents as this day was unfolding about how bad it could get.

And social media chatter made very clear that there were people who were planning violence, people who were targeting Vice President Mike Pence. Obviously, one of their protectees, something that should have, in hindsight, perhaps alarm the agency a little bit more is the way that the House Select Committee presented that information. Here's Adam Schiff to describe, again, this wealth of information the Secret Service had.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): "They think that they will have a large enough group to march into D.C. armed," the source reported, "and will outnumber the police so they can't be stopped." The source went on to say, "Their plan is to literally kill people. Please, please take this tip seriously and investigate further."

The source also made clear that the Proud Boys had detailed their plans on multiple websites like thedonald.win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILD: And just for clarity, the context of that information was Adam Schiff reading information that was coming from a source about far right extremist group called the proud boys, several members of that group now facing sedition charges. So that was a clip of what a source had told law enforcement that - and that information later passed on to the Secret Service.

So the question has been what - how did the Secret Service proceed this information and what did they do to further protect Mike Pence, we've taken some of those questions to the Secret Service.

[15:05:00]

They said the former Vice President Pence was secure at all times on January 6th 2021 and then further added that they - they're not members of the Intel Community. They assess the information as it is given to them and that information was shared. The reality here, every law enforcement agency was working from the same intelligence framework. And the - that basically all came to the same conclusion. Sadly, the riot was the result. Back to you.

BLACKWELL: All right. Whitney Wild, Manu Raju, thank you.

New footage exclusively obtained by CNN shows top lawmakers trying to get to the National Guard and other federal agencies to respond to the U.S. Capitol on January 6th. At one point Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer is seen on the phone with the Secretary of the Army.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): They have - okay, well D.C. has requested the National Guard and it's been denied by DOD. I'd like to know a good goddamn reason why it's been denied, apologize for being so (inaudible) ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, don't apologize.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Wow.

SCHUMER: Please move. It's - the whole Capitol is rampaged, there's a picture of someone sitting in this chair the Senate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With shots fired.

SCHUMER: We've all been evacuated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With shots fired. SCHUMER: There have been shots fired. We need a full National Guard component now. Was it denying the first? Okay. Then I won't take you get the - we need them fast. We've all had that. I've never seen anything like this. We're like a third world country here. We have to run and evacuate the Capitol, 400 congressmen, 200 senators and all the staff. Okay. We need help right away. Thank you, Secretary. Bye- bye.

Yes, they have not denied it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) ...

SCHUMER: I spoke to the Secretary of the Army. He's given the full OK to give the National Guard. He said it was not denied. I'm going to call up the effing Secretary of DOD.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): ... by getting there in one hell of a hurry. You understand?

CHRISTOPHER MILLER, ACTING SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I got you loud and clear, Leader. No problem.

CHRISTOPHER MILLER, ACTING SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: (INAUDIBLE) I got you loud and clearly, Leader.

SCHUMER: This cannot be just we're waiting for so and so. We need them there now. Whoever you got you, okay?

REP. STENY HOYER (D-MD): You have - you also have troops - this is Steny Hoyer ...

UNDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. We - so we have a little bit of time to make that decision.

HOYER: ... troops at Fort McNair, Andrews Air Force Base ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.

HOYER: ... other military bases.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. Thank you, (inaudible) ...

HOYER: We need active duty, National Guard, all the people who are sworn to protect and defend the Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Joining us now to discuss, CNN Law Enforcement Analyst, Michael Fanone, who, of course, is one of the former D.C. Metropolitan Police officers who was injured during the capital attack. He's also the author of the new book, Hold the Line. Olivia Troye also joining us, former Homeland Security Adviser to former Vice President Pence.

And I'd love to just pick off that - pick up that last line that we see in that video there, right? And you hear them saying of all the people who are sworn, right, to protect and defend the Constitution. Michael Fanone, you - when you look at some of that video and I know there's been so much that's come out in the last nearly two years that you have learned about. But when we have the reporting to about the Secret Service, these warnings, we will outnumber police so they can't be stopped. And the response that Whitney just gave us, that CNN got from the Secret Service, I'm just curious, what would you want to ask the Secret Service today? What would you ask them to clarify in terms of the decisions that were made and the information that was or was not shared ahead of January 6th?

MICHAEL FANONE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes. Well, I mean, I want to know, first and foremost, did they disseminate that information to the Metropolitan Police Department and the United States Capitol Police. I was there. I've spoken to hundreds of officers that participated in the defense of the Capitol and none of them have told me that they were made aware of any aspect of that information that - that's now being reported.

The second thing is why is it that knowing this, the Secret Service still decided to go forward with the event, with the rally, knowing that they were going to put fellow law enforcement officers and other agencies in grave danger. I mean, clearly, they have a responsibility in the - what happened on January 6.

And the other thing I want to talk about is - the video that you guys played showing the member - the congressional leaders and their actions on January 6th, it was clear to me that Donald Trump was not the commander-in-chief on January 6th, Nancy Pelosi was the commander- in-chief on January 6, with the assistance of congressional leadership, people like Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell. But Donald Trump failed in his oath, once again, to the American people and he certainly failed the law enforcement agencies that were defending the Capitol from a riotous group of his supporters.

BLACKWELL: And Michael, to add to that we know from some of the testimony that the leadership over at DOD and the Homeland Security, they were speaking with the Vice President Mike Pence and not in any communication with President Trump.

[15:09:59]

Olivia, I'll bring you in on that. Your former boss, Mike Pence, on the phone in this video with Speaker Pelosi and at no point was there any engagement from the former president, who, as we know, from testimony was in the dining room watching television.

OLIVIA TROYE, FORMER ADVISER TO VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Yes, absolutely ridiculous if that was the case, but I think that Mike Pence knew that his current boss at the time was responsible for it and there - I mean, if you look, you'll see it in the video, two leaders talking to each other trying to figure out how they're going to navigate through this crisis and how they're going to respond to it. And I commend both of them for meeting in the middle and working on this together.

And look, to Michael Fanone's point, he is absolutely right. I am furious at that Secret Service statement that they put out, give me a freaking break. You're part of the Department of Homeland Security. By the way, I worked in the Intelligence Component that belongs under DHS, there's a lot of coordination that goes on there.

So if you had all this information, why weren't you pushing it out immediately? And also, why did you go forward and allow this rally to happen right near the White House grounds? Why would you even allow for the President to attend the rally and why would you allow for Vice President Pence to be put in that situation, when you're seeing communications that are talking about how gallows don't require electricity and things like that.

So those gallows showed up, and they were going to hang Mike Pence if they would have gotten to him. So I'm literally just beside myself seeing this as someone who has spent 20 years in National Security, watching the excuses for this now.

BLACKWELL: But, Olivia, let me ask you a follow up on that. Are you suggesting here negligence or malice on the part of the Secret Service?

TROYE: It's hard to - you know it's hard to tell and I think that there should be an investigation right now going on. If I were the head of DHS right now, I would be irate and I would be getting to the bottom of it. But we've seen this, we've seen deleted texts, we've seen the IG, the Inspector General, Cuffari, who is apparently implicated and sat on this information about the deleted text.

So I don't know how you get to the bottom of it when you have someone who is at the head of the investigative body of it also being a part of this and so I think that matters.

HILL: Yes. It - I mean, it certainly raises a lot of questions. You would hope that there would be an investigation to get some of those answers. Interesting to that - they were saying, well, we're not members of the Intel Community.

Michael, when we look at all of this, I know you've heard one too many times and you've had to respond to this push from some Republicans that this was the fault of poor planning and poor execution on the part of leadership there at the Capitol. That there were issues on that day where they didn't bring in what was needed, that they didn't plan properly in advance.

In that video, which you just spoke to where we see House leadership, Senate leadership on the phone there trying to get what they need up to the Capitol, do you think any of that is going to help quell that narrative that others have been trying to put out there?

FANONE: I mean, it's certainly quells the narrative as to whether or not Nancy Pelosi or other congressional leaders were derelict in their attempts to get help to the capitol as quickly as possible, so I'm glad that video was shown. The only person that was derelict in their obligations to the officers there and members of Congress was Donald Trump. That being said, I mean, two things can exist at once. I think that there was a failure within U.S. Capitol Police leadership that still has yet to be addressed. I think that much like the Secret Service, an agency now that I think has lost its credibility within the law enforcement community, so has the United States Capitol Police.

And again, that's not an indictment of the rank and file members. I'm talking about leadership and I think both of those agencies need to have their leadership gutted, and completely restructured and reevaluated by some outside entity.

BLACKWELL: Michael Fanone, Olivia Troye, thank you.

FANONE: Thank you.

HILL: Tonight, Sen. Raphael Warnock and Herschel Walker will face off in their only debate before Election Day. So what can you expect? Stick around, we'll tell you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:31]

HILL: Debate night for Georgia. This is a high stakes moment. We're talking about this debate for Democratic incumbent senator, Raphael Warnock and his Republican challenger, Herschel Walker.

BLACKWELL: This will be the first debate ever for Walker, conservative. He has been repeatedly denying allegations that years ago he paid for an abortion for his former girlfriend. CNN's Dianne Gallagher is in Savannah, Georgia where this debate is happening tonight. So early voting in Georgia starts next week, this could be a make or break moment.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It really could, Victor. We're talking on Monday, Georgians began going to the polls and so this is consequential for both men. It may be the only time we see them face to face tonight inside that building there behind me.

I would anticipate we're going to hear care about the allegations that have been swirling around Herschel Walker, especially for the past two weeks. I think the question is how much either candidate is going to engage in those. Now, look, Walker has flatly denied that he paid for an ex-girlfriend's abortion or that he encouraged her to terminate the pregnancy that later resulted in their son.

But Warnock, for his part, the Senator has not engaged really in any sort of conversations or even really directly answered questions about specific allegations dealing with Walker's personal life or past. Now, look, the Republican you mentioned, this is his debate debut. He's a political rookie here.

[15:20:00]

But his team has been diligently preparing him for this debate even as he has attempted to downplay expectations by playing off the qualifications on a debate stage of Raphael Warnock. According to my colleague, Dan Merica, Gabby Orr and Michael Warren, they have been doing mock debates with Walker's team and he has been leaning on the seasoned debaters like Newt Gingrich and Senator Lindsey Graham to try and prepare him for tonight.

Republicans believe the key for Walker is to show that he is knowledgeable about some of the issues and that he cares about people. And the issues are the key here, because the bulk of what I anticipate we will hear tonight are going to be the topics that people in Georgia feel directly impacted them. So we're talking about crime, the economy, abortion rights, gun violence. Those are going to be the questions that they're likely going to be feeling for the majority of this hour.

Now, look, Walker's team has sent out some of the things trying to tie Raphael Warnock to the Biden administration. Something that we have seen across the country with Democrats for their parts. The senator's campaign sent out sort of what we would call like debate tips, giving us a preview ahead of time something interesting of him trying to put this daylight between him and the Biden administration.

They highlighted his fight against the Biden administration to keep a combat readiness center here in Savannah open. I would anticipate you're going to see him trying to highlight his independent streak and his record in the Senate. And again, that's tonight, here in Georgia, the most expensive contest in the midterm so far.

HILL: A lot of money. A lot of money. Dianne, appreciate it, thank you.

Let's bring in now Political Commentator, Scott Jennings. He's a Republican who served as Special Assistant to President George W. Bush. Maria Cardona is a Democratic strategist. Good to have you both with us.

So Scott, as we're looking at this and what is going to happen tonight, obviously, there's a lot of debate prep going on as we learn from Diane and I found it interesting that part of that prep includes really making sure that Herschel Walker is knowledgeable and can drill down when it comes to actual issues and policy that he's knowledgeable, she said, that he can relate to people.

How much of a concern is that? We have not heard a lot of focused issues from this candidate when it comes to policy.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, if you've never been on a debate stage in a high stakes situation like this, it's - this is the top thing, in your - and he's not a politician. He's never run for office, so he does have something to prove to people about does he have command of the issues. As a technical matter, too, it'd be interesting to see how they've prepared him to try to pivot out of any attacks that come from Warnock or pivot out of any issues that Republicans want to de-emphasize.

And so somebody starts hitting him on the recent allegations or on a topic that he doesn't like, have they adequately prepared him to pivot back to the things that Republicans are running on: inflation, economy, immigration, crime and really focusing on the choice on those matters as opposed to something else.

Again, he's a rookie at this. That's why they are downplaying - lowering the bar, lowering expectations for him. And it'll be interesting to see how his debate prep team has done getting him ready for - sometimes these things are quite sleepy, by the way, and no one notices. In this case, it's a big moment in the race.

HILL: Oh, everyone's watching this one.

JENNINGS: Oh, yes.

BLACKWELL: Maria, when Scott says that they're lowering the bar, the candidate himself is putting it as low as possible. This is how he describes himself, his opponent and what he's going to try to do tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HERSCHEL WALKER, (R) GA CANDIDATE FOR U.S. SENATE: Well, I'm not that smart and he's a preacher. He's a smart man, wear these nice suits, so he's going to show up and embarrass me at the debate on October the 14th. And I'm just waiting, you know I'll show up and I'm going to do my best.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: I'm not smart, my clothes are raggedy. I don't know.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

BLACKWELL: He's a preacher. I mean, what - how does his opponent, how does Sen. Warnock then approach this considering that is what the opponent is saying?

CARDONA: Well, Scott and I have actually talked about this and we agree that in - if you don't believe your opponent is prepared or knows the issues, which I think is the case with Herschel Walker, it is smart to downplay expectations.

But I think what Herschel Walker did in that sound bite is I think he kind of laid out to Georgia voters why they should vote for Raphael Warnock and not him, so I don't know if that specific sound bite was smart. Again, I guess, underscoring the sound bite itself about Herschel Walker.

I think what you'll see from Sen. Warnock is a senator who will talk about what he has already done for Georgia voters. He will absolutely underscore the bipartisan nature of what he has done thus far. He has worked across the aisle with senators Cruz, Tuberville and some others. He has stood up to the Biden administration. I think that's very smart in a swing state like Georgia. And I think that by not saying the things that we know are on the front burner for Georgia voters. All of these allegations about Herschel Walker's alleged abuse against his ex-wife and other women putting, the gun to her head, and specifically about his hypocrisy on abortion.

[15:25:06]

That will speak louder and more voluminously than if he were to outright attack Herschel Walker head on, on those because he does not need to do that.

HILL: I'm just curious too, Scott, how much of a focus do you think that's going to be tonight? I would say both campaigns kind of want to steer away from it a little bit for different reasons, though.

JENNINGS: Yes. I would be stunned though if the debate moderators don't bring it up, I mean ...

HILL: No, it has to be included, but I mean how much ...

JENNINGS: ... and so for Warnock, you want to let somebody else do the dirty work. In this case, it would be the moderator and then you want to see how Walker handles it. And then I think sort of on the fly, you've got to decide is it time for me to go in here. I think Warnock has been kind of hands off on it so far.

My supposition is that his debate team would probably think not to touch it and just to only focus on the issues they're trying to emphasize are sort of core day to day quality of life type issues and just let Walker try to deal with it himself. I - if I were in their shoes, I likely would not go on the attack. I would bet the moderator is going to bring it up and then I would bet Walker is going to be prepared for it.

I mean, look, there's so much paid advertising on this thing and what's going on. This - it probably wouldn't help Warnock to try to turn the entire debate into something on this topic.

BLACKWELL: Yes. There's no question that the viewer has heard about this allegation already.

HILL: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Maria, let's go to Pennsylvania and the Democratic nominee for Senate there, John Fetterman, his campaign is now today airing a new ad that talks about his recent stroke. Here's a bit of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN FETTERMAN, CANDIDATE FOR SENATOR: After my stroke, I was just grateful to see Gisele and our kids. Politicians spent so much time fighting about the things that don't matter. I'll always be focused on what does: Access to health care, lower costs, good jobs, more time with those we love. I'm John Fetterman and I approve this message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Now the campaign says they want the voters to get to know him, but why not instead of just talk about the stroke in an ad release some of these medical records, put forward his doctor to answer some questions.

CARDONA: Well, first of all, Victor, they have been talking about what his situation is with the stroke. John Fetterman has in no way shape or form hidden from the media. He's doing events every day. He's talking to voters every day. He's talking to the media every day.

BLACKWELL: Maria ...

CARDONA: His doctor ...

BLACKWELL: ... Maria ...

CARDONA: ... hang on ...

BLACKWELL: ... back in - wait, in 2016 we had a conversation, you and I and Alice Stewart, I was on the weekend then, about Donald Trump's medical records. And Alice said he's out on the stump. He's out there. You can see he's healthy and you said that wasn't enough, that we need to see those records, we need to see the doctor, so why doesn't that standard apply to John Fetterman?

CARDONA: Well, I'll tell you one of the reasons why is because John Fetterman actually did put out a letter from his doctor, a real doctor.

JENNINGS: When?

CARDONA: Not a wacko doctor like Donald Trump had.

JENNINGS: When?

CARDONA: And that letter actually laid out all of the key information that voters want to know. But listen, Victor, that's not going to keep them ...

BLACKWELL: That was months ago.

CARDONA: ... but that's not - but here's the point, here's the thing, there's going to be a debate coming up. He's going to continue to face the media and he will get questions about this. And they will need to be - they will need to answer those questions.

HILL: He's already getting it.

CARDONA: And then it will be - exactly - and so then it will be up to the voters to figure out whether they want to vote for a candidate who is a stroke survivor who is talking about it, who is talking about what his challenges are and how he is recovering versus a candidate who has made fun of him, who has belittled him for being a stroke survivor and who frankly now we're finding out is possibly a puppy killer.

So I think that is a grand contrast between these two candidates and it's going to be up to the voters as it always is. And my guess is that this is a contrast that Democrats will end up winning because of who these candidates are and who truly represents Pennsylvania, because one of the issues that Dr. Oz has is that he's a carpetbagger.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

CARDONA: He has put out there products to enrich himself and to possibly hurt voters.

BLACKWELL: All right. I got it. I got it. I just want to remind you of the standard that you set in 2016 for Donald Trump and we'll see if now John Fetterman has to live up to that. Maria Cardona, Scott Jennings ...

CARDONA: That's right.

BLACKWELL: ... thank you.

CARDONA: Thanks, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right. One thousand students absent on the same day at one high school in California and school officials think it's because of the flu. Health officials are warning the virus may be picking up speed and it's only the beginning of the flu season. What you need to know ahead.

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