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New Footage Shows Congressional Leaders Scrambling On January 6th; Herschel Walker, Raphael Warnock Face Off In Georgia Senate Campaign Debate; Elon Musk On Covering Cost Of Ukraine Satellite Services: "The Hell With It, We'll Just Keep Funding Ukraine Govt. For Free"; Biden Campaigns In Oregon 24 Days Ahead Of Midterms. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired October 15, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:08]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

New and exclusive CNN footage takes you back to January 6th, 2021 as two battles were waging. One at the U.S. Capitol where violent insurrectionists sought to stop the peaceful transfer of power. Another at a nearby military base where top lawmakers fought to preserve democracy. Their goal, continue the counting of electoral votes to certify the free and fair election even if the Capitol building was off-limits.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): So let's say we finish at midnight or 1:00 in the morning, how does it? You're going to bring them all back to the Capitol and let them disperse? How would we look out for their safety once we're finished?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will make sure they are safe getting back to where they need to be. We will have time as we set up this operation and move forward with this democratic process. And we will adjust accordingly. But, obviously, the Capitol is in no condition to go back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: That remarkable video was captured by Alexandra Pelosi, a documentary filmmaker, who happens to be the daughter of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. More behind-the-scenes footage was released this week during a hearing by the House Select Committee investigating January 6th. The panel voted to subpoena former President Donald Trump. They want him to answer for his words and actions that led up to the insurrection.

And CNN's Zachary Cohen joins me now. He's done plenty of reporting on January 6th.

You know, Zachary, it's been fascinating to see how these lawmakers were working together to try to get this certification back up and running. What more did we learn from this footage, which, I mean, you can watch it over and over and over again and see a new wrinkle here or there? It's just fascinating.

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. This is really the first time that we've seen inside the secure location where congressional leaders were taken after the Capitol was evacuated. And like you mentioned, you know, that does capture the moments where members of Congress are working together to ensure that they get to vote to certify Joe Biden's win.

But also we learn and we get to see with our own eyes Nancy Pelosi talking to Mike Pence, who is still at the Capitol, and with the same goal, to certify Joe Biden's electoral win. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Very well. Very well. Certified. No partisanship? OK. Yes. Because I think it's important for it to happen today. A while ago Chuck and I called on the president to ask the people to leave the Capitol. That hasn't happened yet. I hope that it will.

SCHUMER: We must finish. So we have to -- you have to help us make that decision.

RYAN MCCARTHY, FORMER SECRETARY OF THE ARMY: Senator, I just need a little bit of time. We just put the plan together.

SCHUMER: Can you call us in a half hour?

MCCARTHY: I will call you back in a half hour with a much better estimates.

SCHUMER: Right. Thank you.

PELOSI: Thank you, Mr. Secretary. And Mr. Secretary, I just spoke to Vice President Pence and he was going to see -- because Mitch wants to do it in the Capitol. But we're being told it could take days to clean it up to make sure there are no hidden, you know, bombs or anything. But he was going to get back to me shortly as well. So just so you know.

SCHUMER: Who are you telling?

PELOSI: I'm missing the part as well.

SCHUMER: Who is that?

PELOSI: Same guy.

SCHUMER: What?

PELOSI: Same person.

MCCARTHY: Yes, Madame Speaker. That's why I just need a little bit of time to make a better estimate. PELOSI: Yes, thank you.

SCHUMER: OK.

PELOSI: Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

MCCARTHY: OK. Thank you.

PELOSI: Thank you. Bye-bye. I think Pence will have an honest estimate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

PELOSI: Now, how long will it take to set up here?

SCHUMER: Mike Luzinski (PH).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're trying to gather all the members up. We'll do the same. Load the buses and come down to this building. At that point we'll see if we want to continue democracy here on base and get it over with.

SCHUMER: We're not going to bring them here unless we're going to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: So I think a few things really jump out there. One is the genuine level of concern about the safety situation at the U.S. Capitol, right, but also this unwavering commitment to making sure that they vote to certify the election regardless of where that happens.

And I think the third is pretty obvious. It's the absence of one man, Donald Trump, in all of this. I mean, we see Nancy Pelosi coordinating with members of her own party, with the vice president who was bunkered down in the U.S. Capitol while the riots are happening.

And yet we heard this from the January 6th Committee over and over and over again, Trump was nowhere to be seen or heard from during that time.

ACOSTA: And I remember I was at the White House that day, and I was roaming the halls of the West Wing trying to find an official who would explain to me what was going on on their end at the time and what Donald Trump was doing, what the president at the time was doing to make sure that this whole mess, this whole insurrection gets swept away so they can get back to the business of certifying the next president. It's just fascinating to see this behind-the-scenes footage.

Zach, thanks very much. Zachary Cohen, we appreciate it.

In the meantime, former President Trump is refusing to say whether he will comply with the subpoena from the January 6th Committee, ripping the lawmakers instead in a 14-page letter and repeating his lies about the 2020 election.

Joining me now is former Trump attorney Michael Cohen.

[15:05:01]

He's the author of the new book "Revenge: How Donald Trump Weaponized the U.S. Department of Justice Against His Critics," as well as the host of the podcast "Mea Culpa."

And, Michael Cohen, thanks for joining us. Good to be with you. Again, we appreciate it. You know, it's --

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: Good to see you, Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes. Good to see you. It's no surprise that Trump would lash out. You know, but, you know, Michael, if you could, we were just watching this unbelievable -- it's still hard to let all of that seep in, you know, and absorb what we just watched in that video that we were just talking about a few minutes ago. I guess, you know, you testified up on Capitol Hill not too long ago, a few years back, warning the country about Donald Trump. To see that footage, what goes through your mind?

M. COHEN: Yes. In fact, I testified seven different times. That was the only one that was live. I testified, that's right, in the SCIF, you know, six different times to three or four different congressional committees. What is it like to watch that? It breaks your heart. I mean, that's the people's house. You know I worked there in 1987 and 1988 for Congressman Joe Moakley. I love that building. Everyone should love that building. That is our house.

And the fact that these people felt that they had the right within which to desecrate it, all in the name of their monarch, their king, their supreme leader, it's disgraceful. And then during these January 6th hearings when you see the officers just sitting there you can feel the pain that's going through their souls, you know, as they, you know, recount what had happened to them as they were there trying to protect the property and protect lives. It's a heartbreak.

ACOSTA: And I want to show -- we're going to continue to show this footage captured by Pelosi's daughter Alexandra Pelosi. Let's watch a little bit more, Michael. Let me get this in and let me get your comment on it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERRI MCCULLOUGH, CHIEF OF STAFF: The Secret Service said they have dissuaded him for coming to Capitol Hill. They told him they don't have the resources to protect him here. So at the moment, he is not coming but that could change.

PELOSI: Let him come then I'm going to punch him out.

MCCULLOUGH: How I would pay to see that.

PELOSI: We're waiting for this, the trespassing on the Capitol grounds. I want to punch him out and I'm going to go to jail and I'm going to be happy.

SCHUMER: Why don't you get the president to tell them to leave the Capitol, Mr. Attorney General, in your law enforcement responsibility? A public statement they should all leave.

JEFFREY ROSEN, FORMER ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL: OK. So, as you might guess we're coordinating as quickly as --

SCHUMER: No, no, no. Please answer my question. Answer my question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes, Michael Cohen, I mean, let me ask you about this. You know, you've been in Trump's orbit. What's it like to see people on the other side trying to deal with, you know, reining in the chaos, that is Donald Trump? You know, whether it's the Secret Service begging him not to go to the Capitol, the attorney general being unable to say whether he can get the president to tweet something, to see Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi scrambling to get security up to the hill.

What is it like being inside Trump's orbit with all of that going around on the outside of that chaos?

M. COHEN: Right. So the answer to that would be good luck. You know, Trump was enjoying the spectacle. He was enjoying watching all of these people on the television with the Trump banners, the Trump flags, the MAGA hats. Why? Because they were doing it for his benefit. This is what I refer to in the book "Revenge: How Donald Trump Weaponized the U.S. Department of Justice Against His Critics."

He really wasn't just doing it against his critics, he was weaponizing the Department of Justice. He was weaponizing, you know, the government in order for his own benefit. And that's the point that I tried to make. It may seem a little bit unclear. But if you read the book, you'll understand the man does not want to be president of the United States. He wants to be an autocrat supreme leader, a dictator.

And watching these people doing this on his behalf was exciting for him. He was elated from it. In fact, you may recall Don Jr. sent text messages to Mark Meadows.

ACOSTA: Right.

M. COHEN: Ivanka tried. Jared tried. Well, I don't know if Jared tried. But many people had tried, and they were unsuccessful. Again, the question becomes why. And the answer is plain and simple, he wanted this to happen. This was in his honor. It was to continue to promote the big lie. And that's all that he wanted to do. So good for Chuck Schumer. Good for Nancy Pelosi in doing what they did.

And good for all of us to be able to see this video so we can feel like we were there with them and we know exactly what they wanted, which was the right thing that Trump refused to do.

ACOSTA: And, Michael, I mean, as you saw at the end of that previous January 6th hearing, which could be the last, may not be the last, they did issue the subpoena for Trump to testify. Do you think he has the guts to testify?

[15:10:08]

M. COHEN: The answer to that is absolutely not. He's not coming in. He will play the song that we've all heard over and over and over again. I want to do it. I'm going to get it done. I'm going to sit for it. I have nothing to fear. I'm innocent. Blah, blah, blah. And we all know that it's absolutely untrue. This is all part of the economic grift that Trump has become so adept at doing. Already they're sending out, you know, e-mails from the GOP and from Trump's PAC.

Hey, friend, they are attacking us again. We need your support. 1,000 time match and all that. This is all part of the great economic grift that is the legacy of the Trump administration.

ACOSTA: And I want to ask you about your book, in this new book you've written, Michael, "Revenge," you write, quote, "We should all be worried about government because if we're not, then what happened to me could happen to you. It's an important message I think because Trump has accumulated a long list of enemies. Perhaps present company included.

M. COHEN: You being one of them, my friend.

ACOSTA: I think probably that's the case, as well as yourself. But what do you think he would do if he were ever president? And again, I mean, I mean, people again, and Michael, you were on the other side of this in 2016, people brushed off the notion that Donald Trump could become president again. I wish people would stop saying that because he absolutely could become president again.

But given what you know about how he tried to use the Justice Department to go after people, what do you think happens if he becomes president again?

M. COHEN: So the unconstitutional remand of me back to Otisville when I failed to waive my First Amendment constitutional right is just part one of the Trump playbook in terms of making America into an autocracy or into a dictatorship with Donald as the leader. The first thing that they want to do is to take away your First Amendment constitutional rights. All media, like we see in Russia, is state-run and state- controlled media.

The second of course is weaponizing the military or if you cannot get the military, get a paramilitary group like we saw on January 6th. What this is all about in "Revenge" is showing this is the playbook that failed. But now that they have the failed playbook, there is an opportunity to correct it and to make it right if in fact someone, whether it's Donald Trump or a Donald Trump 2.0, ever, you know, returned to the Oval Office.

And what we are seeing right now as well. We are seeing that there are 299 elected -- well, I should say individuals that are running for elected seats that are election deniers. This is dangerous especially if, in fact, they all believe that they have to come and kiss the ring of Donald Trump in order to win the support. So whether their loyalty goes to Donald or whether it goes to America and to their constituents, that's really the big problem.

And we've already seen what he knows how to do things. So we have to be extremely careful to make sure, especially come this midterm November. We have to make sure the person that ends up taking the elected spot is actually worried more about America than Donald.

ACOSTA: All right. A lesson that you know all too well. Michael Cohen, great to see you again. Really appreciate the time. Again, Michael is the author of the book "Revenge: How Donald Trump Weaponized the U.S. Department of Justice Against His Critics." He knows what he's talking about. We thank Michael for his time.

Coming up, it's a race that could determine which party controls the Senate. The latest on the contentious Senate battle in Georgia next. Plus, he famously led the resistance as Luke Skywalker, now "Star Wars" legend Mark Hamill is using the force to help Ukraine. Hear about his new mission leading an army of drones when he joins me live today at 4:00 p.m. Eastern. That's coming up in the next hour. You don't want to miss it. Luke Skywalker coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:15]

ACOSTA: Election day in America is a little more than three weeks away, and the balance of power in the Senate are at stake. A lot of eyes were on Georgia last night as incumbent Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock faced off against Republican challenger Herschel Walker in their first and likely only debate.

The Southern preacher and the former football star sparred over topics ranging from abortion to support for the police. But much of the focus was on personal controversies that are swirling around Herschel Walker and Senator Warnock's close links with President Biden.

CNN's Eva McKend is in Savannah and has some highlights.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock and Republican challenger Herschel Walker are in a contentious Georgia Senate race with U.S. Senate control at stake.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is time to get under way.

MCKEND: The Georgia candidates debated Friday night. Walker, running on a family values platform, currently involved in a scandal over allegedly pressuring the mother of one of his children to get an abortion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The week before this debate, a former girlfriend made public accusations saying you paid for an abortion and that you encouraged her to have another. In an ABC News interview this week you said that the accusations are, quote, "all lies."

For the voters watching tonight, can you explain the circumstances surrounding these claims? You have 60 seconds.

HERSCHEL WALKER (R), GEORGIS SENATE CANDIDATE: Well, as, I said, that's a lie. And, you know, most thing I put it in a book. One thing about my life is I've been very transparent. And unlike the senator, he said things but at the same time I said that's a lie.

And on abortion, you know, I'm a Christian. I believe in life. And I tell people this. Georgia is a state that respects life, and I'll be a senator that protects life. And I said that was a lie, and I'm not backing down.

SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): The patient's room is too narrow and small and cramped a space for a woman, her doctor and the United States government.

[15:20:03]

We are witnessing right now what happens when politicians, most of them men, pile into patients' rooms. You get what you're seeing right now. And the women of Georgia -- the women of Georgia deserves a senator who will stand with them. I trust women more than I trust politicians.

WALKER: I heard about him. I heard he's a neat talker. But did he not mention that there is a baby in that room as well? And also did he not mention that he is asking the taxpayer to pay for it? So he's bringing the government back into the room.

MCKEND: CNN has not independently verified the allegations about Walker.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: Herschel, please say a few words.

MCKEND: Walker was given the opportunity to distance himself from the former president on election denial.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did President Biden defeat former President Donald Trump in 2020?

WALKER: President Biden won and Senator Warnock won. That's the reason I decided to run. Because we need a change in Washington. We need leaders that's going to stand up to foreign leaders. We need people that are going to stand up for people in Georgia.

MCKEND: On Friday, both candidates said they would accept the results of this election. Walker was also asked about crime and took the opportunity to make a string of claims about Senator Warnock, accusing Warnock of not supporting the police, who gave this rebuttal.

WARNOCK: We will see time and time again tonight, as we've already seen, that my opponent has a problem with the truth. And just because he said something doesn't mean it's true. I have supported our police officers. I've called them and I've prayed with their families. You can support police officers, as I've done, through the cops program, through the invest to protect program, while at the same time holding police officers, like all professions, accountable.

One thing I have not done, I've never pretended to be a police officer, and I have never threatened a shoot-out with the police.

WALKER: And now I have to respond to that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are moving on, gentlemen.

WALKER: No, no, no, I have to respond to that. And you know what's so funny, I am with many police officers, and at the same time --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Walker, Mr. Walker --

WALKER: No, no, no, no. When he said a problem with the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse me, Mr. Walker.

WALKER: When he said problem with the truth, the truth is --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Walker, please, out of respect, I need to let you know, Mr. Walker, you are very well aware of the rules tonight.

WALKER: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you have a prop.

WALKER: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is not allowed, sir.

MCKEND: Early voting starts Monday in Georgia.

Eva McKend, CNN, Savannah.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And joining us now is Larry Sabato. He's the director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics.

Larry, I trust you did not bring your badge with you today. Maybe it's a UVA badge. That's about as far as I'll let you go. But you know we heard on that Georgia debate last night, Herschel Walker, a big Trump ally, saying that Joe Biden won the election, which I thought was very interesting given that Walker has falsely claimed in the past that Trump won the 2020 election. What could be behind that?

I'm assuming it might has something to do with all of those suburban voters around Atlanta who went against Donald Trump in the 2020 election.

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: I think Donald Trump is on the slide downward. And part of the reason is because of this ridiculous continuing claim that Joe Biden did not win the election and Donald Trump was the victim of great voter fraud, which is utterly absurd. Pure nonsense. So that may be one reason. And he's trying to project perhaps a more reasonable image. But I thought the badge was a bit much. I did get one of those, but it was for my fifth birthday.

(LAUGHTER)

ACOSTA: And, Larry, let me ask you about what's happening on the Democratic side of things. I thought this was interesting. President Biden is on a western campaign swing ahead of the midterms. Right now he's speaking in Oregon, which is usually reliably blue. Has been for years. He is not stopping in Arizona or Nevada, despite those marque Senate and House races there. What do you think is going on there?

SABATO: Well, basic live he's in Oregon because, incredibly, the Democrats are on the edge of losing the Oregon governorship. And it's very, very rare that you have a Republican governor of Oregon, the last one I believe in the 1980s.

So he's really there to try to boost the Democratic nominee by a few points, which is what she needs. There's another Democrat, former Democrat running as an independent draining more votes from the Democrat. And there is of course a Republican, who may well win this three-way race because the Democrats are divided.

Look, Biden -- I give him credit for this, Jim. He's only going places where he and his political team understand that he can actually help with fundraising, maybe adding a point or two in a deep blue state. He is not going into the purple states or very light blue states because even though his popularity has gone up from the mid-30s to the mid- 40s, he's still not over 50.

[15:25:10]

And when you're below 50 and you're the incumbent president in a midterm election, you probably will cost your candidates at least a couple of points.

ACOSTA: And, Larry, we're looking at some live pictures now of the president in Portland, Oregon, before a campaign event gets started there. Let me talk to you about this critical race in Pennsylvania. It's obviously -- it's in the news every day because it's such a high- profile race. Republican Senate candidate Mehmet Oz is once again trying to distance himself from his own campaign. There's some campaign staffers who have mocked his Democratic rival John Fetterman's near-fatal stroke. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MEHMET OZ (R), PENNSYLVANIA SENATE NOMINEE: I have tremendous compassion for what John Fetterman is going through. I mean, not only do I as a doctor appreciate the challenges, but I know his specific ailment because it's especially the area of mine. I accepted responsibility, and I, you know, I deal with issues as they come up, but he has his own set of issues, and we should have had a debate already.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But would you ever talk to your patients like this?

OZ: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes, Larry, Dr. Oz says he has empathy, sympathy for John Fetterman. But people who work for Dr. Oz apparently have made comments along the lines of if he had ever eaten a vegetable in his life maybe he wouldn't have had a stroke, that sort of thing. I wonder what you make of this.

SABATO: It's pretty obvious that Republicans, including Oz, but also his campaign staff and the national Republicans are using health issues to narrow the gap between Fetterman and Oz. Originally, Fetterman was doing very well. He was leading by nine, 10 points in polling averages at one point. He's still leading. It's too early to be putting that in the Republican column. He's up three or four points. He's got to stop the deterioration.

And so Democrats are putting a lot of chips in Pennsylvania. They have the advantage of a Democratic gubernatorial candidate, non-incumbent, Josh Shapiro, who's likely to win handily and maybe can help pull Fetterman in. But the Republicans know if they lose their seat -- the incumbent is a Republican. If they lose their seat in Pennsylvania, it really puts them behind the eight ball. Then they have to gain two Democratic seats.

They're focusing on Georgia and Nevada. But Georgia is no longer a sure thing for them at all. In fact, Warnock seems to be a little bit ahead. Nevada is tougher, though it's still very close.

ACOSTA: Right. I mean, it's hard to see how the Republicans can take back the Senate if they lose that seat in Pennsylvania. You're absolutely right.

All right, Larry Sabato, great to see you as always. We appreciate it. Thanks so much.

SABATO: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. And coming up, Vladimir Putin says he has no regrets about Russia's invasion of Ukraine and deadly missile attacks on civilians. We'll speak to a prominent Putin critic next. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: This just into CNN. Elon Musk is responding to an exclusive CNN report that his company, SpaceX, says it can no longer pay for critical satellite services in Ukraine and is asking the Pentagon to pick up the tab. CNN's Alex Marquardt joins me now on the phone. Alex, what is Elon Musk's saying now?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, if what he's saying in his tweet is true, then this is a complete reversal of what his company has been paying, telling the Pentagon, it's, of course hard to tell how serious he's being. In his tweet today, he's saying, the hell with it, we will keep funding Starlink in Ukraine, despite the fact that they are still losing money.

Now, let's remind our viewers that what we have been reporting is that the company that runs Starlink in Ukraine, the satellite internet service is SpaceX, which of course is largely owned by Elon Musk. And they had requested that the Pentagon start paying the bill, they simply said we've already spent $100 million, we can no longer continue to pay for this hardware in this service indefinitely. We're now asking the Pentagon to start picking up the tab.

And what they were asking for an immediate term was $124 million for the rest of the year. And that's a rate that could amount to around $400 million for about 12 months, not an insignificant amount. So it seems that SpaceX was essentially done paying for this really critical internet service in Ukraine.

Now after our reporting, there was a bit of an uproar. And it looks like now Elon Musk is deciding to switch course and saying somewhat bitterly despite the fact that other companies are getting taxpayer money, we will continue to fund this.

Now, there's no disputing the fact that there are other companies that that are that are not paying out of pocket, whether it's Raytheon or Lockheed, you know, defense industry companies. But the point here is, Jim, that since Starlink, was sent into Ukraine early on in the war back in March, there has been a lot of global acclaim, a lot of thanks for Elon Musk and SpaceX for sending this and they were taking a lot of the credit.

And it was surprising to a lot of people that in fact, other governments, other entities were paying for this critical service in Ukraine. So now what Musk is saying is that they will continue to fund this. We haven't been able to check with the Pentagon yet to see if they're rescinding this request.

And we, you know, it is it is completely fair to point out that this is a critical technology that Ukrainian forces have been absolutely relying on. And without it, they would be severely hampered at a really critical juncture in this war, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, Alex Marquardt, thanks for that important update. We appreciate it. Elon Musk there with an apparent reversal. Alex Marquardt is reporting.

[15:35:00]

Now, my next guest is a prominent Putin critic who is at one time the largest foreign investor in Russia. Bill Browder is the CEO of Hermitage Capital as well as the author of "Freezing Order: A True Story of Money Laundering, Murder and Surviving Vladimir Putin's Wrath." Bill, you're a businessman.

What do you make of Elon Musk and what he is now tweeting about, I guess, it sounds like a reversal on his part that he's going to continue helping the Ukrainians with this very important service? BILL BROWDER, CEO, HERMITAGE CAPITAL: Well, Elon Musk got a huge amount of goodwill for offering it in the first place. And, and I look at this, and I say to myself, that guy's worth like north of $200 billion. He's one of the richest guys in the world. He's got all this goodwill.

What's he doing messing around for $100 million, when it's just the tiniest tiny fraction of total net worth? Ukrainians need this? If they don't have it, they'll be hamstrung. I think that he's -- he'd be right. And it would help him and his reputation, just carry on.

ACOSTA: What do you suppose is going on there? Why would he do this to begin with?

BROWDER: Well, I don't know what's going through his head. He came up with a crazy Twitter poll a few days ago, basically, asking people whether Vladimir Putin should just be allowed to keep the territory that he's already illegally annexed, asking for a like new referendum. And that was sort of straight out of Putin's talking points.

And I think it really upset just about anybody who cares about Ukraine. So Elon Musk is sort of venturing out of his area of technical expertise into the area of foreign policy, where he is not a genius. He's just like everybody else. And he seems to be misstepping at every place along the way, when it comes to talking about it.

ACOSTA: Well, and speaking of missteps along the way, let's talk about Vladimir Putin. He says he has no regrets about these deadly missile attacks carried out this week on civilian targets in Ukraine. Speaking at a press conference, Putin would only acknowledge that, quote, what is happening now is unpleasant to put it mildly.

What do you think is happening with Vladimir Putin and his mindset right now, I mean, you know, I mean you've been sort of a thorn in his side for some time. And this is not going well for him in Ukraine, and he's lashing out.

BROWDER: It's not going well for him at all. He's lost more than 60,000 soldiers, which I should point out is four times the number of soldiers that the Soviets lost in Afghanistan over a 10-year period. And he's lost 60,000 soldiers in seven months. He's -- as a result of losing these soldiers and having a bunch of other ones wounded, they've lost a lot of the territory that they thought they had taken, as the Ukrainians have pushed back.

And as a result of losing that territory, Putin has had to cross a line that he didn't want to cross, which is to draft up a bunch of people, 300,000 soldiers, from all walks of life, to go and become the next cannon fodder in Ukraine. And that's led to his decline in popularity, people are leaving Russia, there's more than half a million people, could be as many as a million men between the ages of 18 and 60 have left Russia.

So he's in a very bad place right now. And what does he do when he's in a bad place? He lashes out. And all of this, this sort of indiscriminate bombing of Ukrainian civilian, is a sign of his desperation. He's not doing well. He's not gaining any military advantage by pummeling Ukrainian civilians in different places across Ukraine. And he's probably using up whatever's left at his diminished artillery.

And so this is not looking good for Vladimir Putin right now. And statements that this is all going according to plan. It's not going according to any plan he had at the beginning of this war.

ACOSTA: And apparently, President Biden and President Putin will both be at the G20 Summit in Indonesia next month. Obviously, schedules can change and so on. But potentially you can see a meeting between these two men, or at least a brief interaction on the sidelines of the summit. Do you think the President of the United States should speak with Vladimir Putin? And if so, what should he say?

BROWDER: At this point, I think we've said all we need to say to Vladimir Putin, which is get out of Ukraine. There's nothing more to say. There's no behind the scenes negotiations that need to be done at this point.

We've told Putin in no uncertain terms that is unacceptable war of aggression. He's got to withdraw. We're going to continue to fund Ukrainians to provide them with weapons. I don't know if there's any words that need to be exchanged between these two people right now.

ACOSTA: Yes. It certainly seems like a lot of recruiting isn't really listening to anybody right now, even inside Russia. Bill Browder thanks very much for your time. We appreciate it.

BROWDER: Thank you.

[15:39:55]

ACOSTA: All right, and a programming note, next hour Star Wars legend, Mark Hamill aka Luke Skywalker joins me live on his mission to help Ukraine, how he's trading droids for drones in the fight against Russia, that's at 4:00 p.m. and just a few moments from now, and we'll be right back.

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ACOSTA: President Biden is on the campaign trail in Portland, Oregon, just 24 days before the midterms. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When the middle class does well, when the middle class does well, working class people have way up and the wealthy do just fine. They do just fine. And by the way, the middle class built this country and unions built the middle class.

[15:45:04]

I don't want to take too much of your -- more of your time but this is, this is one of the reasons I got involved in politics 800 years ago. Already the vast majority of House Republicans have signed on to a budget, a budget they have and I just read one section of the budget, that they have to cut Medicare and Social Security. Do you think I'm exaggerating this? But they have the pamphlet put out, OK.

Senator Scott, the senator from Florida, who is the chairman of -- in charge of Reelected Republicans in the United States Senate, this year proposed the plan to put Social Security and Medicare on the chopping block every five years, all federal legislation sunsets in five years. If the law is worth keeping, Congress can pass it. Or in other words, if it doesn't affirmatively pass Medicare, again, it goes away.

If it doesn't affirmatively pass Social Security, again, I know that sounds bizarre. Well, guess what? There was one guy who thought it was too lenient, a guy who happens to be a senator from Wisconsin, Ron Johnson.

He thinks it should be no every year and this is not, I'd never thought I'd love to see this. It's not a joke he wants every single year, a Congress would have to affirmatively vote back into law, back in the law these programs, they go away.

It's not just so Security and Medicare, he wants to put veterans' benefits and everything else in the federal budget at risk the same way. Look, let me closes this. Over the last few years, we've faced some of those difficult challenges in our history, both domestically and foreign policy. And we're making real progress helping folks just get a little more breathing room.

Despite the opposition of the most powerful interest, special interest, we're lowering health care costs. We're strengthening Medicare. We're fighting for folks who need our help.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And there you have President Biden there campaigning on behalf of Democrats in Oregon, but he also worked in a dig at Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, an important race there in that battleground state. We'll have more in just a few moments. We'll be right back.

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[15:52:06]

ACOSTA: Sad news from Hollywood actor Robbie Coltrane has died.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL RADCLIFFE, ENGLISH ACTOR: There no Hogwarts without you Hagrid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: The Scottish actor shots at international fame playing Hagrid in the Harry Potter franchise. Coltrane's other credits include the British series "Cracker," James Bond films "GoldenEye" and "The World Is Not Enough." The stars of the Harry Potter films are paying tribute to the lead actor. Daniel Radcliffe, who played Harry Potter, of course, wrote, I've

especially fond memories of him keeping our spirits up on a "Prisoner of Azkaban," excuse me if I got that wrong, when we were all hiding from the torrential rain for hours in Hagrid's hut and he was telling stories and cracking jokes to keep morale up. Robbie Coltrane was 72 years old.

And NBA Hall of Famer we should note, Dikembe Mutombo, is fighting a brain tumor. The NBA says the 56-year-old is in quote great spirits as he begins his treatment in Atlanta. Matumbo is a legend in the NBA, four-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year and an eight-time All-Star.

He played for the Nuggets, the Hawks, the 76ers, the Nets, the Knicks and the Rockets during his incredible 18 Season career. After retiring Matumbo dedicated his life and his time to working with humanitarian and charitable causes.

On a brand new episode of The Murdochs: Empire of Influence, a tumultuous phone hacking scandal reignites the succession battle between Rupert Murdoch's children threatening his entire global empire. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At that moment, by sheer chance, I got a phone call as I was walking through middle of London one day, and I was told that the news of the world had hacked the phone of this schoolgirl Milly Dowler.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Milly Dowler was a 13-year-old child and she went missing on her way home from school in March 2002. There was an intense police investigation and it took six months to find her remains. The news of the world hacked into Milly Dowler's phone within days of her disappearance. They did this not because they wanted to find her. They did this because they wanted to sell stories.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: The Murdochs: Empire of Influence airs tomorrow night at 10:00 right here on CNN. This week, CNN Heroes salutes Michelle Tran, a Chinese and Vietnamese American whose nonprofit soar over hate has provided more than 30,000 personal safety devices as well as self- defense classes to Asian Americans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE TRAN, CO-FOUNDER, SOAR OVER HATE: The day of our distribution, lines surpassed four blocks around the neighborhood where people waited almost two hours to obtain a personal safety device from us.

[15:55:03]

To make the noise, you plug the pin. And it scares people away and it alerts people around you. It was simultaneously heartbreaking but also motivating to see so many people come out. I think it highlighted the need and the fears that many folks like me are experiencing right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much.

TRAN: Stay safe. Bye.

I hope that our work helps save lives. That's our only hope moving forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: A very important cause. For more information on this story, go to CNNHeroes.com.

Coming up, we're very excited about this on the Newsroom. Star Wars legend Mark Hamill joins me live and just minutes from now on how he's backing the resistance in Ukraine, of course, Mark Hamill, on the good side of things as always. His meeting with President Zelenskyy and his new role as an ambassador to an army of drones, we'll explain all of that in just a few moments. Stay right there.

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