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Russia's War on Ukraine; Russian Conscripts May Be Ending; Interview with Go by the Forest Found and Activist Grigory Sverdlin; Beijing Gets Pushback Over COVID Measures; Perfectionism Can Lead to Other Mental Health Issues; Seismic Changes On The Way If GOP Wins Control of the House and Senate; 2022 Midterm Election. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired October 20, 2022 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[02:00:19]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church. Just ahead here on CNN NEWSROOM. A really, really bad day for Britain's prime minister now under fire from her own party after another cabinet shake up but vowing not to quit.

Vladimir Putin declares martial law in areas he says Russia annexed while rolling blackouts now grip Ukraine as Russian airstrikes continue to target the power grid.

Plus, how Xi Jinping zero-COVID obsession is causing desperation, hardship and growing unrest across China.

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center. This is CNN NEWSROOM with Rosemarie Church.

CHURCH: Right now Ukraine is rationing electricity, the end result of repeated Russian airstrikes inflicting heavy damage on the national power grid. Government ordered restrictions are now in effect and will be in place until 11:00 p.m. tonight, local time. Internet connectivity has dropped way off.

The government is asking the nation to reduce electricity consumption to a minimum or risk more frequent blackouts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We will do everything possible to restore the normal energy capabilities of our country. But it takes time. And this requires our joint efforts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: It's been described as a desperate move by a desperate leader. Vladimir Putin declaring martial law across four Ukrainian regions Russia claims to have annex just weeks ago. Meaning residents there are now waking up to a frightening new reality. This despite the fact that Russia does not have full control over those areas. Among them Kherson where Russian installed leaders there began ramping up the relocation of as many as 60,000 people on Wednesday.

Ukraine is accusing Russia of sparking hysteria. Putin is also tightening security across those annexed regions and across Russia and introducing different levels of response to security risks. Kherson was the first major city that Ukraine lost in the early days of the war, and a place that one Russian officials said would be in Russia's hands "forever." But now Moscow's message to Kherson's residence has changed too, you need to leave. Nic Robertson reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice over): Ukrainian civilians now under Russian martial law in Kherson city lined up to be evacuated potentially to Russia. Russian imposed officials in illegally annexed Kherson have told them it's not safe to stay. Up to 60,000 forced out boats used to ferry them away from the front line and their homes to an uncertain future.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I bought extra clothes for my dog. My other half my antidepressant.

ROBERTSON: Ukrainian officials have accused Russia of whipping up hysteria, compelling people to leave. Residents receive text messages Wednesday morning from the pro-Russian administration. Dear residents, it read, evacuate immediately. There will be shelling of residential areas by the armed forces of Ukraine. The punishment under martial law for failing to comply unknown, the threat clear.

KIRILL STREMOUSOV, RUSSIA-INSTALLED DEPUTY GOVERNOR OF KHERSON REGION (through translator): I asked you to take my word seriously, and to understand them as meaning as prompt an evacuation as possible.

ROBERTSON: Vladimir Putin is tightening his grip not just on Kherson but Donetsk, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia. The four territories he illegally annexed last month, all put under military command.

Ukrainian forces have been advancing through several parts of the Kherson region in recent weeks, capturing villages and farm lands along the western banker the Dnipro River. The Kremlin's new commander for Ukraine said Tuesday that the situation in Kherson was far from simple and implicitly hinted his forces may withdraw.

SERGEI SUROVIKIN, COMMANDER OF RUSSIAN OPERATIONS IN UKRAINE (through translator): Our further plans and actions regarding the city of Kherson will depend on the unfolding military and tactical situation on the ground. I repeat it is already very difficult today.

[02:05:10]

ROBERTSON: Across the rest of Ukraine, Putin's forces kept up their barrage on power stations. And despite at least four cruise missiles, and 10 drones shot down by Ukrainian forces. Another three electricity generating plants hit, more Ukrainians denied power and water. Amid those dwindling supplies, President Zelenskyy calling a crisis meeting to head off a nationwide blackout, vowing to keep critical infrastructure up and running.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: In this war, Putin is turning out the lights that it is Ukraine that's taking the key commodity territory. Putin's martial law officials here say an indication of just how much he's losing control. Nic Robertson, CNN, Kyiv, Ukraine.

CHURCH: And CNN's Clare Sebastian is following developments for us from London. She joins us now live. Good morning to you, Clare. So what does martial law look like in these illegally annexed regions and across the border into Russia? And what happens now to the Ukrainians who have been forced to leave?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Rosemary. Martial law in the illegally annexed regions probably won't change much on the day to day. They are already -- these people living in a war zone. So the rules that are enshrined in martial law, things like the ability to forcibly move, civilians, that very likely already happening, seizure of property already happening, all those kinds of things.

But it does, of course, reveal that President Putin is trying to do what he can't do militarily through the sort of sham illegal, or what he would say, as legal means as for Russia itself. I think it's perhaps more impactful that you see the sort of slow creep of authoritarianism through this means of declaring what is essentially martial law light in those regions that you see those border regions and slightly less a rules in the -- in the areas just to the west, and south of those regions as well.

He has, of course, also given more powers to all regional governors. And if you read the decree on martial law in the illegally annexed regions closely, it does leave itself open to expansion. It does say that they can expand this under the constitutional law on martial law. So that has made a lot of Russians very nervous that just like with the decree on mobilization, it could go further than initially expected.

As for what happens to the Ukrainians who are being evacuated in the words of the Russian-backed authorities, they're out of Kherson, we don't know exactly where they are going. A correspondent in Russian state T.V. said yesterday that they were heading for the -- some of the border regions in Russia, Crimea, perhaps Krasnodar, Rostov. Some of those regions that are now under that martial law light but we don't know exactly.

And this of course, very concerning given Russia's track record in this war of moving civilians.

CHURCH: Yes, indeed. Clare Sebastian joining us live from London. Many thanks. Well, the clock appears to be ticking on the tenure of British Prime Minister Liz Truss whose government was consumed by fresh chaos on Wednesday. It started with her home secretary quitting over a technical infringement. Then using her resignation letter to tear into the prime minister. Suella Braverman is the second high-ranking official to exit the Truss inner circle since Friday. She's been replaced by Grant Shapps who earlier this week said the prime minister had "A Mount Everest to climb to remain in power." Meanwhile, the opposition Labor Party is seizing on the anti-Truss momentum. Leader Kier Starmer ticked off all of her government's failed initiatives and said its economic credibility is gone. He also bluntly asked why is she still here. And here is her fiery response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIZ TRUSS, PRIME MINISTER OF BRITAIN: Mr. Speaker, I have been very clear that I am -- Mr. Speaker, that I am sorry and that I have made mistakes. Mr. Speaker. I am a fighter and not a quitter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: CNN's Scott McLean is covering this live for us in London. He joins us now. Good to see you, Scott. So, given the increasing turmoil could Liz Truss end up being the shortest serving prime minister in Britain's history?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Rosemary, that is the question certainly being asked today is how much longer Liz Truss can hang on for her political life was almost certainly on the line yesterday going into prime minister's questions. She managed to survive the questioning from the opposition party and even from her own party, but now she has more problems piling up.

[02:10:01]

Not long after that happened her home secretary, the person in charge of policing borders, immigration in this country unexpectedly resigned. What is not clear about Suella Braverman's resignation is whether she resigned on her own accord or whether she was forced to resign. You mentioned that resignation letter where she had a pretty thinly veiled swipe at Liz Truss. In fact, I wouldn't even describe it that way. This was some great -- a trolling.

I'll read you part of that letter. It said, the business of government relies upon people accepting responsibility for their mistakes. Pretending we haven't made mistakes carrying on as if everyone can't see that we have made them and hoping that things will magically come right is not serious politics. I have made a mistake. I accept responsibility. I resigned. She went on to further criticize the government's lack of commitment as she describes in sticking to their campaign promise to lower overall levels of migration.

Some Conservative M.P.s, though think that there is much more to the story obsessively. That resignation was over Braverman supposedly sending an e-mail from her personal e-mail account that was work related, which is against the ministerial code. Her replacement was quickly named Grant Shapps, the former transport minister as you mentioned, he's been questioning the viability of this government in the past.

He's also not a Liz Truss loyalist. Interestingly enough, like the chancellor, he supported her opponent in the leadership race, Rishi Sunak. And then later on in the day, things got even worse for Liz Truss as there was chaos and confusion inside of the parliament over a labor motion to keep in place the national ban on fracking in this country that conservatives were told to vote against it.

But there was confusion over whether or not this was a confidence vote, which would mean that any Conservative M.P.s voting against it would be at risk of being booted from their own party. Labor, some Labor M.P.s described bullying, shouting, and some people being physically manhandled into the no lobby. In this country voting is called division, people have to -- M.P.s have to physically go to a certain lobby to register their support or they're voting against any kind of piece of legislation.

And there was one particular M.P., a conservative M.P. who has been an outspoken critic of Liz Truss who has already called on her to step down, whose frustration after this whole affair took place was pretty obvious. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES WALKER, CONSERVATIVE M.P. OF BRITAIN: I'm livid. And, you know, I really shouldn't say this. But I hope all those people that put Liz Truss in number 10, I hope it was worth it. If it was worth it for the minister or red box, I hope it was worth it to sit around the cabinet table, because the damage they have done to our party is extraordinary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLEAN: So, as you mentioned, Rosemary. Quickly that the conservatives did manage to vote down that Labor piece of legislation. But what's not clear is whether the Conservative M.P.s who abstained from voting who sat on their hands, whether they will face disciplinary action. What is clear is that Liz Truss needs to get control of her government and needs to do it quickly.

CHURCH: Yes. Extraordinary times in Britain. Scott McLean joining us live from London. Many thanks. And I want to bring in Robin Niblett, who is a distinguished fellow and former director of Chatham House and International Affairs Think Tank. Thank you so much for being with us.

ROBIN NIBLETT, FORMER DIRECTOR, CHATHAM HOUSE: Good morning, Rosemary.

CHURCH: So more turmoil in the wake of yet another U-turn and now a second senior ministerial departure this time with a scathing resignation letter rebuking the prime minister, while other senior Tories are in open revolt. How can Prime Minister Liz Truss survive all this?

NIBLETT: Well, frankly, I don't think I'll be original in saying that I think it's very difficult for her to survive this. Obviously, your viewers know very well that this comes in the wake of a disastrous, so called a mini budget that has shredded the reputation of the Conservative Party for sound and competent financial management, one of their absolute principal calling cards over the Labor Party. Some humiliating U-turns and most obviously, Liz Truss being forced to sack her former chancellor Kwasi kwarteng for doing what he and she both fundamentally agreed they needed to do to drive growth. I think the problem she has right now is a deeper one is that in her desperate push to still have a growth strategy in place, she looks like she's going to break some manifesto commitments.

And she will be making -- breaking these manifesto commitments without having been elected herself by the people if you want to put it that way to be prime minister. And in particular, if I can mention this one, the reason Ssuella Braverman issue became so toxic was the desire to raise immigration, raise levels of immigration in the U.K. to try to spur growth. This was precisely what Brexit was about.

[02:15:02]

Brexit was so that the U.K. could reduce levels of integration and not do a race to the bottom in the pursuit of fake growth. So she's in incredibly difficult position.

CHURCH: Yes. So let's focus on that scathing letter of resignation from Home Secretary Suella Braverman where she says, pretending we haven't made mistakes, carrying on as if everyone can't see that we have made them and hoping that things will magically come right is not serious politics. It is obvious to everyone that we are going through a tumultuous time, I have concerns about the direction of this government.

So how damaging is this for Truss? And will there be more resignations like this, do you think?

NIBLETT: Well, I'm not sure there'll be more resignations immediately today, because I think the resignation many Conservative M.P.s have focused on is that of the prime minister. So I don't think others are going to be jumping straight away, especially if you've got somebody like Grant Shapps, as mentioned in your report bring in to replace Suella Braverman, not least as he was somebody who was obviously seen as a critic of Liz Truss.

I think the problem here is Suella Braverman is an absolute torchbearer, standard bearer for the very Euroskeptic wing of the party, the so-called European Research Group which Liz Truss herself has been a leading member of. But, you know, she's been seen as having the critics on the softer side of the party, should we say, the Jeremy Hunt side, the Rishi Sunak side, she now made a absolutely, you know, fervent enemy, if you want to call it of somebody on the other side of the party.

So she is losing both wings simultaneously. And this is what could mean that her days are numbered as the prime minister.

CHURCH: Right. And of course, another sign of trouble for Prime Minister Truss came during a parliamentary vote on fracking with confusion of whether it was linked to a confidence vote. Some M.P.s claiming conservatives were being physically dragged in to support the government's stance. So how did the Tories recover from this? And if they do decide to ditch Liz Truss, who steps in to replace her? Is there a plan?

NIBLETT: Well, again, I mean, just quickly on the fracking issue, that's another issue that was a manifesto commitment that would -- there would be no fracking. But Liz Truss wanted to flip that particular position in order to try to drive growth and now without having the taxes. But you get to the key point, Rosemary, which is the exasperation, you might say, for many Conservative M.P.s, which is who would replace her.

Given that you have a party that is deeply driven between those who supported Liz Truss's growth plan, and those like Rishi Sunak, who thought it was a frankly, crazy idea, and he was, you know, made his views very clearly on the stomping trail to become the leader of the Conservative Party. You're left with -- choices that would favor one wing of the party or the other. Strangely, the only person who might not do that would be Jeremy Hunt, only say that not because he isn't associated with the softer wing of the party but because he came last in the hustings for who would take over from Boris Johnson.

But he's already been made the chancellor and has done a very good job to this point where the markets trust him deeply. Once you start to go beyond Jeremy Hunt, you start to pick one one side of the other. And it has to be the question, how would this be acceptable to the British people which would then drive you to an election? So honestly, all of us, including myself are struggling to think how she gets through this mix.

I think people might have rallied around it. If it were not for the chaos of yesterday evening, not just the sacking of the home secretary. But this botched vote, who knows if it was a confidence vote or not. That incompetence on parliamentary management on top of incompetence financially, I think could be the doing for her but frankly, I don't know who will take over.

CHURCH: It is an unbelievable one west to watch play out to like this.

(CROSSTALK)

CHURCH: Yes. Robin Niblett, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your analysis. Appreciate it.

NIBLETT: Thank you.

CHURCH: And still to come. Iranian authorities meet with the female rock climber who competed in Seoul without a hijab. We will have their reaction just ahead.

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[02:21:23]

CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. Iranian rock climber Elnaz Rekabi met with the country's sports minister Wednesday after returning from a tournament in Seoul where she competed without her headscarf. According to state media, the minister expressed his support for Rekabi and encouraged her to continue her career. CNN's Nada Bashir is following all the developments from London and she joins us now live. Good to see you, Nada.

So what more are you learning about this meeting between Elnaz and Iran sports minister?

NADA BASHIR, CNN INTERNATIONAL REPORTER: Well, look, there are certainly international attention right now focused on Elnaz Rekabi that has been significant concern expressed by human rights organizations, even some of Rekabi's friends around the repercussions she may have faced at home, following that appearance in South Korea competing with her hair uncovered.

Of course, we heard those reports around international that she may have been incommunicado for a time before her return to Iran. So there was significant concern that she could potentially face detention,, could potentially face ill treatment by the Iranian regime. But there is of course international attention on the situation in Iran right now. We are continuing to see protests.

And we saw yesterday that meeting between Rekabi and the sports minister, apparently according to state media the sports minister encouraging her to continue with her career expressing support for not only Rekabi but all athletes in Iran. So this is perhaps a sign of encouragement. What is important to note here is that we are still continuing to see a crackdown by the Iranian regime on acts of descent, particularly on women and girls who choose to defy the country's strict and conservative dress code.

And there are concerns that the government may still be using Rekabi as an example to other women. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEORAPE)

BASHIR (voice over): A hero's welcome amid a storm of controversy. Elnaz Rekabi's return to Tehran may have drawn crowds of supporters, but it was her appearance without a hijab or headcovering at a climbing competition in South Korea, which drew the spotlight.

ELNAZ REKABI, IRANIAN ROCK CLIMBER (through translator): This situation happened entirely accidentally. The struggle that I had with wearing my shoes and preparing my gear made me forget about the proper hijab that I should have had. I apologize to the people of Iran and for the turbulence and worry that I created for them.

BASHIR: The pro-athlete's words reiterating an earlier apology shared on her Instagram page. There's some human rights organizations have expressed concern that Rekani may have been speaking under duress and could still face repercussions at home. The International Federation of Sport Climbing however, says it has received clear assurances that Rekabi will not suffer any consequences and will continue to train and compete.

Rekabi's returned from Seoul comes amid ongoing protests across the country, sparked by the death of 22-year-old Mahsa Amini who died in the custody of Iran's notorious morality police after she was detained for allegedly wearing her hijab incorrectly. Women and young girls have been openly defying the regime's conservative dress code. The Iranian rock climber has so far refrained from publicly voicing her support for the movement.

But she has become yet another symbol of defiance for those protesting for change. Prompting fears that are covered could be used by the regime to set an example to other women.

[02:25:02]

MAHMOOD REZA AMIRY-MOGHADDAM, DIRECTOR, IRAN HUMAN RIGHTS: They just can't let it go unpunished because they know how crucial it is to maintain this barrier of fear among people.

BASHIR: Well, the Iranian authorities have claimed that reports of recoveries impending arrest aren't "fake news." There continues to be concern over her future and her safety in Iran.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASHIR: Likewise, meanwhile, the international focus is still very much on Rekabi's case. There is also growing concern for the ongoing protest movement in Iran, still gaining momentum. We are still seeing demonstrations up and down the country. In response, of course, we are still seeing that brutal and violent crackdown by the Iranian security forces. Rosemary?

CHURCH: All right. Nada Bashir joining us live from London and many thanks for that report.

And still to come. A relentless assault from Russia. CNN travels to the frontlines in the east and witnesses what Ukrainian troops are facing. We're back with that and more in just a moment.

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CHURCH: Welcome back. Well, in eastern Ukraine forces are facing a fierce fight and a relentless Russian attack in one key city. CNN Senior International Correspondent Frederik Pleitgen got a firsthand look at what Ukrainian troops are experiencing on the frontlines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): When entering Bakhmut, the need is for speed. We're driving straight into one of the most dangerous places in war-torn Ukraine with a military combat medic who goes by the call sign Katrusia (ph). Bakhmut is under nearly constant Russian assault.

Our car hasn't even come to a full stop when the first shell hits nearby. The medic stops. We need to take cover as best we can.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're waiting here for the shooting to stop.

PLEITGEN (on camera): So we're taking cover here because we just had some incoming artillery fire. We're going to wait and hope that there's not any hits anywhere close to us.

PLEITGEN (voice over): We're at the receiving end of a full Russian artillery barrage.

[02:30:04]

Photojournalist Richard Harlow tracks several of the projectiles whizzing close over our heads

Katrusya says Ukrainian troops face this kind of shelling several times a day.

KATRUSYA, COMBAT MEDIC, UKRAINIAN ARMY (through translator): The artillery attacks fly every day, so it's never quite here. Other parts of the city take hits many times a day. There are times where several mortars hit within -- in a minute.

PLEITGEN (voiceover): Katrusya's own husband was killed here over a month and a half ago. While Ukrainian forces have been gaining ground against the Russians in many places, in Bakhmut, things are different. Kyiv is trying to fortify its positions, but they acknowledge the Russians have more artillery and are using seasoned fighters from the Wagner private military company. Still even pinned down with artillery overhead, Katrusya says her confidence is not shaken.

KATRUSYA (through translator): Absolutely, we will win. But price of victory will be huge. Unfortunately, every day, civilians are dying, and there are a lot of dead and injured soldiers on every part of the line.

PLEITGEN (voiceover): The fighting here has destroyed much of this town and left a few people who remain traumatized. Sergei (ph) doesn't even to cover any more, as artillery strikes nearby. I asked him if he is afraid.

SERGEI (PH), BAKHMUT RESIDENT: Afraid of what? Everything will be fine, mate. Everything will be fine.

PLEITGEN (voiceover): A pause in the shelling gives us a chance to get out of Bakhmut, as Ukrainian tanks role in the other direction, trying to defend this key city from Vladimir Putin's forces. Fred Pleitgen, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Moscow's rapid conscription of 300,000 Russian citizens to fight in Ukraine appears to be winding down, although no end date has been announced. But even if the Kremlin is ready to claim success, the negative impact inside Russia has been significant, including protests and attacks on recruiting officers. Many Russian men are doing whatever they can to avoid being drafter and they've been leaving the country by the thousands.

CNN's Matthew Chance is in Moscow, and says there are noticeably fewer men on the streets these days.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm seeing much, you know, far less people -- far fewer people in the streets that I would normally expect to see, specifically men. And that's -- I think, talks to the fact that a lot of men of military age are either -- they've either left the country, tens of thousands, of course, if not hundreds of thousands we've seen evacuating the country to avoid the military draft. Others are simply staying low prime file because there have been countless incidents of people being picked up on the streets by the authorities and drafted him straight into the military. So, military aged men are avoiding that.

CHURCH: And joining us now from Tbilisi, Georgia, is Grigory Sverdlin, founder of Go By The Forest, a group that helps young Russian men escaped conscription into the Russian military.

Thank you so much for talking with us.

GRIGORY SVERDLIN, FOUNDER, GO BY THE FOREST AND ACTIVIST: Hi.

CHURCH: So, President Putin's plan to send these untrained Russian men to the battlefield has backfired with criticism coming from within his own country and many men of fighting age fleeing Russia. And that, of course, is where you come in helping them avoid conscription, even teaching those who get drafted how to surrender. So, what advice do you give these men, and how many have you helped so far?

SVERDLIN: Well, almost 3,000 people were helped by our organization, Go by the Forest. And we advised people not -- definitely not to sign summons and by any means not to go to enlistment offices. The rest depends on unique situation, because we help people to leave country legally, and illegally as well. We help people to stay low profile, inside of the Russia, and so on and so forth. So, we --

CHURCH: Yes, we've certainly been hearing --

SVERDLIN: -- I have been -- yes, we --

CHURCH: Yes, we've been hearing these stories about Russian men staying off the streets in fear that they will be plucked from those streets and sent to the frontlines. So, talk to us about how difficult it's been for you, and of course these men that you've been helping, to leave your homeland and your loved ones and to start a new life in another land.

SVERDLIN: Well, definitely, it's a rough experience and it's drama, indeed.

[02:35:00]

But speaking of myself, I would say that shame for my country, for this ugly war, it troubles me more.

CHURCH: Yes, and what about some of these other men that you've been helping avoid conscription. And of course, with some, as we've mentioned, advising them on how to surrender. I mean, what are they thinking? How are they feeling about the life that is before them?

SVERDLIN: Well, this war isn't so popular as Putin's propaganda trying to tell us. And as you can see, there are many, many Russians leaving the country. It's about one million or maybe even more people left country after 25th of September, when mobilization started. So, people -- definitely many, many people don't want to be a part of this war and looking for any opportunities not to be drafted. And definitely immigration and leaving your homeland, it's really rough. But what can you do?

CHURCH: And you mentioned the shame that you feel being a Russian and being dragged into this war. How do you think it will end, this war?

SVERDLIN: Well, nobody knows. But it's obviously that Russia lost already. And I'm glad for Ukraine. They fight for their own country. And as I see Putin just buying himself more time with more dead bodies, Russian dead bodies and Ukrainian dead bodies. And he doesn't have any good exits from this situation, as far as I can see. So, it will take -- I don't, know a few more months, but the war is lost.

CHURCH: Grigory Sverdlin, thank so much for talking with us. We appreciate it.

SVERDLIN: Thank you. Thank you.

CHURCH: And still to come, Beijing tries to silence dissent as people across China push back against its zero-COVID policy. We will look at why the attempt to control the narrative is not working. Back with that and more in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERONICA MCDANIEL, TEACHER, ATLANTA INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL: My school has been involved in human trafficking awareness, and taking action against human trafficking for about 13 years. My name is Veronica McDaniel. And I am teacher supervisor of Atlanta International School against human trafficking.

I feel it's important to teach young people to know the signs of human trafficking. We can do a lot of prevention work, just by opening their eyes to the problem. #MyFreedomDay, means a lot to me. It actually fuels my work with young people. At Atlanta International School and globally, six years running, we've been able to really reach a lot of students. It's just become bigger than I think any of us thought it would and now we want to keep getting even bigger.

My hope for the future is that students are becoming so much more confident in this topic. That they're completely leading the charge. Where students are listening to other students and were realizing that's the most effective way for kids to really hear about the issue. And an idealist, I know that we can't completely eradicate human trafficking in the next five years. But my hope is that over time, with this new wave of strong young leaders, that we're certainly diminishing.

CHURCH: The central Chinese city of Zhengzhou has been placed under lockdown. The manufacturing hub is home to more than 12 million people, now forced to stay home, as part of Beijing's strict zero- COVID policy.

[02:40:00] The unpopular measures are quickly becoming harder to enforce, as the Chinese people fight back. President Xi Jinping says he's prioritized the people, and their lives above all else, to hold back the virus. But images from the streets tell a different story. CNN's Selina Wang has more on the effort to silence the opposition.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): He struggles to breathe and crawl. Sweating profusely, exhausted under the weight of his hazmat suits. He's wearing layers and layers of them. This is a demonstration from a Chinese citizen all the way in New York City's Times Square, a metaphor for the suffering zero-COVID policy many people feel in Xi Jinping's China. It's to mark the ongoing Communist Party Congress where Xi is expected to secure his unprecedented third term.

ZHISHENG WU, CHINESE ARTIST: There are so many repressed emotions during these two or three years. I vent my emotion out.

WANG (voiceover): But in China, shows of defiance or swiftly censored. Just a week before Beijing, two big banners attacking Chinese supreme leader and its COVID policies were hung on a busy overpass. One of them reads, say no to COVID tests, yes to food. No to lockdown, yes to freedom. The other banner reads, remove dictator and nationalist dictator Xi Jinping. People involved in the demonstration could be jailed, or even worse.

China's draconian zero-COVID policies have descended millions of lies into chaos. Fights with COVID enforcers, screams for freedom from locked in apartments. Protests for food and supplies. During the snap lockdown in an airport in southern China, security even held guns near travelers. Entire cities are still being locked down over a handful of COVID cases. This woman yelling out in frustration that she's been in isolation for six months already but the images of pain erased from Chinese internet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just a general inhumane policy where people are being first forced and hurting, and their dignity is being taken away.

WANG (voiceover): We are not revealing this resident's identity, because it fears of retribution for criticizing the government.

WANG (on camera): So, why is Xi Jinping sticking to zero-COVID?

STEVE TSANG, DIRECTOR, SOAS CHINA INSTITUTE: Because, Xi Jinping can never be seen to have made a mistake. Constantly, we have the party propaganda machinery, shining out narrative threat. In fact, the zero- COVID is protecting life in China.

WANG (voiceover): Beijing claims there would be a disastrous health care scenario, like the million plus COVID deaths in America if China didn't have its zero-COVID policy. The pandemic is also Beijing's perfect chance to upgrade its surveillance technologies, including mandatory smartphone health apps that track the daily movements of virtually all 1.4 billion people.

Yet many in China have adapted to the new normal. With regular COVID tests and rolling lockdowns. But back in New York, this Chinese artist is doing what he can to remind the world that while they've moved on from COVID, millions in China are still suffering under the weight of lockdowns, and repression. Selina Wang, CNN, Hong Kong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: And thanks for joining us. I'm Rosemary Church. World Sport is next. And I'll be back with 15 minutes with more CNN Newsroom. Do stay with us.

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[02:45:00]

COATES: I do like excellencism, I didn't make of the word. But I do think also, though, there is a certain amount of luxury and being able to be less than perfect.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

COATES: But not everyone gets. And I think that you -- the standards can be very high. And I -- but I also -- I would say that I think my competition is me yesterday.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

COATES: And so -- but I do give myself more grace as a mom, especially in the pandemic because it was 24/7, like, on me attached.

CAMEROTA: For sure.

COATES: But I do think that there is something to having standards for yourself to pursue excellence.

CAMEROTA: I agree with that. But I also only compete with myself. And I think if you only compete with yourself, you're just in a better position. Because -- then why are we always striving for perfection?

CARDONA: No, no. I completely agree with you, except for -- and I -- when I do a lot of speeches to young Latinas, for example. I do tell them to be better than the person that they're competing against. And that's not just themselves, because they are competing against white men, sorry. Sorry. And they have to be better, not just better than them a little bit better, they have to be twice as good.

CAMEROTA: And is that too much stress for their mental health?

CARDONA: It might be but --

SWERDLICK: It depends.

CARDONA: -- it depends, exactly. It depends on the person. It depends how driven they are. That's how I grew up. That's, you know, how I got through school. That's how I got through and, you know, did my political career and have the privilege of being here at this table with you all because I always feel like have to be incredibly prepared.

But, to your point about being a mom, when I had children, I did say to myself, OK. I can't do everything and be everything at the same time.

COATES: Mom and all.

CARDONA: I had a wonderful husband -- have a wonderful husband. He helped me, you know, and I couldn't have done it without him. But I also said to myself, I'm going to sleep when they sleep. I don't care of the house is messy --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CARDONA: -- because I can't be --

COATES: Oh, my kids stick their clothes in the laundry basket.

CARDONA: -- good if they're sick, right?

URBAN: Listen, I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to be a better version of yourself.

COATES: Agreed.

URBAN: Everybody wants to improved. However, I do believe that you're bombarded by the media, nonstop 24/7 with messages that say, you're not good enough. You're not thin enough. Your skin is not great enough. Your hair is not shiny enough.

COATES: why are you looking at right at me, David?

URBAN: No, no. Listen. I'm looking at me. I'm looking at the monitor, my hair is not shiny enough. But you're bombarded nonstop. Whether it's print, whether it's on social media. And I think that leads to a lot of insecurities in people.

SWERDLICK: Yes -- oh, no, I was just going to say, I like the way you put that. You're competing against yourself yesterday. I think this concept of excellencism I makes sense, but also think it's a little bit of a rebrand, right. You said good-enoughism (ph), OKism (ph), there's -- don't let that -- don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Quiet quitting is today's version of, you know, phoning it in. Whatever. Fine.

CARDONA: And by the way, we do actually practice this with our kids. How many times have we said to our kids, just do your best. You're not telling --

SWERDLICK: Yes.

CARDONA: -- well, there are, I guess parents who say, you've got to be the best round. But -- URBAN: Wait, I just thought you told those kids to be best. Where are

you going now?

CARDONA: Well, I told them. I told them to be best.

URBAN: Oh, OK. Not your kids, though?

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: It's -- try to do your best, because really that's all you can ask from people.

COATES: Of course. Agreed.

CAMEROTA: I mean, as a prosecutor, I remember, like, it was always a factor of the government. And prosecutors, in particular, were expected to be perfect.

CARDONA: Right.

COATES: There is never the time of the resources to be. And you find that in so many --

CAMEROTA: That seems exhausting.

COATES: -- it --

CAMEROTA: It is.

COATES: I'm here, aren't I? I mean, the idea of thinking about it. At the same token, though, I do see the benefits in terms of mental health, it's all the individual person. If you feel as though you are striving for somebody else's definition of perfect, you're in a world of trouble.

URBAN: Zero defects in the workplace in your life is just not sustainable.

COATES: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

SWERDLICK: And we learned that in the pandemic, if not if nothing else.

CAMEROTA: Yes. All right. So, what do you think about all of this? Are you a perfectionist? Has the drive for perfection ever impacted your life? Let us know what you think. That and anything else you want to say to us about what we're talking about tonight, tweet us at the -- oh no, I'm not @thealisyncamerota. I'm @alisyncamerota and @thelauracoates.

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[02:50:00] CAMEROTA: Vermont's Republican Governor, Phil Scott, was asked at a debate last night what he does to lower his carbon footprint. As you will hear, he is really embracing this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please name one individual action you have taken to lower your own carbon footprint, Governor Scott.

GOV. PHIL SCOTT (R-VT): Well, whether it's the electrical vehicle for state security that drive me around. But also, I'm -- I lived that. I recycle. I have solar panels. I do everything we can, we keep our heat down to 58. I mean, it's -- we do everything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: 58.

COATES: 58 degrees?

CAMEROTA: That is going beyond above and beyond the call of environmental consciousness.

COATES: Look, Alisyn, my house is a constant battle. My husband and I, I have like -- I think 74 degrees is right. He's like --

CAMEROTA: I'm with you.

COATES: -- 74 degrees. And he's like woman, it is 67, and go get a sweater. And I'm like --

CAMEROTA: Oh, no.

COATES: -- it's 74 degrees.

CAMEROTA: Right. I mean, 67 is chilly, 58 can he see his breath indoors?

COATES: I'm from Minnesota, mind you. That's not -- my husband will turn off when I'm brushing my teeth and start the water. And I'm like I wasn't done. That's a good move.

CAMEROTA: But that's the age-old marital debate. The husband, I think, always wants the room colder, the wife always wants it warmer. I like a good 72, but I'm willing to settle for 71. But can you imagine living in 58 degrees?

COATES: I mean, he lives his truth. And I'd be wrong with you but the hot flashes are real, so maybe it would help me at night to sleep at 58, but I'd be so cold. But you know what, the solar panels he mentioned, electric cars -- the point, I think, he's making is every little thing will help.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

COATES: And it's hard when you're a parent, to look at your kid, and not try to take actions to do something that will impact their lives.

[02:55:00]

CAMEROTA: Oh, no, he's leaning in.

COATES: He is.

CAMEROTA: I think that his policies have reflected that as well. I know that he didn't vote for some big environmental thing recently but that's because he said that they weren't giving him the -- state legislature hadn't given him the cost of it. But I think that he's walking the walk, particularly if he's making his family live with 58 degrees.

COATES: We couldn't be married.

CAMEROTA: No, that's fine.

COATES: Thank you. He didn't ask. So that's fine.

CAMEROTA: That's fine.

COATES: But also, polls suggesting the Republicans are actually gaining momentum ahead of the midterms. And look, if the GOP does take over Congress, I wonder if you thought what kind of seismic changes we could actually see. And really, Alisyn, if America is ready for any of those changes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Well, there are new signs tonight that Americans are energized about the midterms. You know, almost four million Americans have actually already voted. And that happens to be on par --

CAMEROTA: That's energized.

COATES: It is. With 2018. That was the highest turnout for a midterm election in decades, according to Catalyst data.

CAMEROTA: So, with less than three weeks until votes are counted, our colleagues crunching the poll numbers say that Republicans are gaining momentum.

[03:00:00]