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Nominees Make Final Pitches With Control Of Congress On The Line; MAGA Conspiracists Now Inside The Election Process; Georgia Early Voters Turning Out In Record Numbers; Texas Officer Under Investigation After Uvalde Response; Texas Officer Under Investigation After Uvalde Response, Ordered Delay Of Classroom Breach; Group Sues Biden, National Archives For Final Set Of JFK Assassination Docs; Former Chinese President Escorted From Communist Party Ceremony. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired October 22, 2022 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:24]

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Sara Sidner in New York in for Jim Acosta.

It's just over two weeks now until the midterm elections. And we are in the final stretch, as candidates work to reach still undecided voters. In the Senate race in Pennsylvania, it's all about swing voters in the suburbs. Democratic Lieutenant Governor John Fetterman is up against Republican Mehmet Oz. The outcome of the race there is critical, if Democrats want to keep their razor-thin majority in the Senate.

CNN national reporter Dan Merica is live in Philadelphia for us today.

How tight is this race there this weekend?

DAN MERICA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's remarkably tight. What you've seen is that the lead, the polling lead that John Fetterman had over the summer has narrowed in recent weeks. And both campaigns, Democrats and Republicans, acknowledge, there is a smaller and smaller and smaller sliver of undecided voters in this contest. And that is who they are seeking to reach.

Now Dr. Oz has been somewhat off the campaign trail today, at least not publicly saying what he's doing. He appeared on FOX News this morning. He spoke about crime and the importance of the debate on Tuesday. That is the key date in this contest where Oz and Fetterman will meet and debate for the first and only time. John Fetterman will appear behind me at a brewery in Chester County, Pennsylvania, a key collar county outside of Philadelphia.

This would be a different kind of event for Fetterman. Since he had a stroke in May, and then returned to the campaign trail about two months later, he's done mostly rallies and a few interviews. At those he rallies, he has had notes and a stump speech that he has wanted to make, points that he has repeated. This will be different. This is a roundtable discussion where he will speak with Amy Klobuchar, a senator from Minnesota, really tailoring that event to these suburban voters here in Chester County.

Also of interest, he'll be using closed captioning technology behind me, basically allowing him to read what Amy Klobuchar is saying so that he can then respond. That same technology will be in use at the debate on Tuesday. Klobuchar is not the only Democrat who is looking to help Fetterman. Former President Barack Obama also cut a campaign ad for the Democrat that was released this week, where he urged Democrats to come out and support the lieutenant governor. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: So when the fate of our democracy and a woman's right to choose are on the line, I know John will fight for Pennsylvanians. You can count on John Fetterman. Make sure he can count on you. Vote Democrat on November 8th.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MERICA: Sara, it is not happenstance that I am here. This is the kind of place that Dr. Oz argued he could win during the GOP primary because Republicans have struggled here. It was a swing county for a little bit. It has been a swing county. Republicans dominated it. Obama won it in 2008, Romney won it in 2012 but has really delivered for Democrats in both 2018 and for Joe Biden in 2020. That's why Fetterman is here and Oz has put a lot of focus on these areas. This is the kind of place that will decide the 2022 midterms, the Senate election here in Pennsylvania.

SIDNER: Dan Merica, giving us some great update there. Thank you so much.

I want to bring in our CNN political commentators now, former Republican congressman Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania and CNN political commentator and columnist for "New York" magazine, Errol Louis.

Gentlemen, thank you so much for being here.

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thanks, Sara.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to be with you.

SIDNER: Charlie, I'm going to start with you because you are from Pennsylvania. Biden is Pennsylvania's native son, as we all well know. But he hasn't been doing big rallies for Fetterman. He seems to have opted for kind of a low-key visit or low-key visits. Why do you think that is?

DENT: Well, because, Joe Biden is under water here. His approval is not particularly good. It's not horrible but it's not that good either. So I think that's part of the reason why he's not playing a higher profile role in this Pennsylvania race. And truly interesting that they're in Chester County today, which has been a swing county but it's certainly trended Democrat in recent years. And I think it's important that Fetterman be there because Oz is making inroads there. And I think part of it, the crime issue is playing hard in

Pennsylvania, as, of course, is the economy inflation. These are playing extremely hard. And I also say there's a style point here issue for Fetterman. That's a pretty upscale area. You know, higher income, higher educated. And that whole hoodie shorts thing, you know, appeals more to the -- I think really appeals more to maybe the millennials and you know, he's -- Oz has struck -- Fetterman is struggling with seniors. And I think that's part of it.

[16:05:05]

And I got to tell you. If my late mother were alive, she would say, would it kill the guy to put on a collared shirt in front of the president of the United States? I think there's a lot of conventional traditional voters. And I think that Fetterman is underperforming in those suburban areas and Oz is trying to make headway there and he's really tightened this race.

SIDNER: All right, Errol. The White House is pushing back on the idea that you heard from Mr. Dent there, that President Biden is not the preferred surrogate for Democrats, saying the decision for him to not participate in large rallies is a strategic choice rather than a reflection of his approval rating. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON KLAIN, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Both President Obama, I was here, I'll share responsibility for it, and President Trump got walloped in the midterms. So I don't think it should surprise anyone that we're not using the strategy that failed in 2010 and the strategy that failed in 2018. Instead what you're seeing is the president is traveling the country with Democrat, elected officials with Democratic candidates, and he is talking about the issues that really impact people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: All right. So I guess the question to you, Errol, is, do you think this is about Biden's approval ratings and why he's not playing a key role in, you know, sort of stumping there in Pennsylvania, where he's from?

LOUIS: Well, you don't show up for candidates who haven't asked for you. And I think Ron Klain's point is very well taken. He was -- Joe Biden was part of that effort to shore up the Democrats in 2010. And they lost 63 seats in the House and very much as what was also described is what happened to Donald Trump during his disastrous 2018 midterm effort where he went out and did dozens of rallies, and they ended up losing 40 seats.

So, you know, you don't have to necessarily continue with a losing strategy. Maybe try something different. It's a bit of a long shot. I would certainly defer to Charlie Dent on politics in Pennsylvania. But the alternative I think is not necessarily all that promising, to do a bunch of rallies that lead you to a stunning defeat. It's a waste of time and effort. SIDNER: All right, Errol and Charlie, I want to move on to another

state now. I'm sorry we can't stay in Pennsylvania for you there, Charlie. We're going to move on to Georgia and the Senate race there because CNN visited Herschel Walker's hometown to hear directly from voters from his hometown, including his former teacher and his high school football coach. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It sounds like you liked Herschel as a player and as a student.

CURTIS DIXON, HERSCHEL WALKER'S FORMER HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER AND FOOTBALL COACH: Still do. But you know this is business.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You don't feel like he's ready?

DIXON: He's not ready.

JULIAN "JUNE BUG" POPE, WRIGHTSVILLE, GEORGIA RESIDENT: I think he ought to just wait and look inside before running to see what it would take.

JERRY OWENSBY, WRIGHTSVILLE, GEORGIA RESIDENT: I wish he hadn't have run.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Explain to me, why not?

OWENSBY: Because he's too good for politics. It's hurt him with his family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Wow. That's a cross section of people. And all of them, unanimous, in saying this is business. They don't really think he should have run. But his sentiment in his hometown, and to be fair, that's a few people, there are a lot more. But does that tell you anything, first to Charlie, about his chances statewide?

DENT: Yes, it does, Sara. We all know Herschel Walker is a very flawed candidate. There have been a domestic abuse revelations, not taking care of his children, the abortion hypocrisy. He's been very flawed, he's not very good on the stump, obviously. But, you know, it may not matter that much only because we got such tribal voting patterns in this country, where it's red team, blue team. And if you want control of the Senate, you're going to overlook -- many voters are going to overlook Herschel Walker's shortcomings, they're going to vote for him anyway, just for control of the Senate.

Now, do I think that there are going to be some swing voters out there and were going to be turned off by this? Yes. And I think you're going to see probably an impactful number of Camp Warnock voters just as you're going to see in Pennsylvania, Shapiro-Oz, voters and some other states where this is happening, where these deficient candidates, like in Pennsylvania, you have a gubernatorial candidate Mastriano who's so unfit that many Republicans like me can't vote for him. Same thing is going to probably happen in Georgia in the Senate race.

But, again, remember, tribal voting patterns. And all these shortcomings of Walker may not make a difference.

SIDNER: Polarization is playing a huge role in elections these days. Errol, why do you think this race has been so close, though, between Walker and Warnock?

LOUIS: Well, I think the first part of it is the tribalization. High degree of polarization. So that you start out with, you know, 35 percent, 40 percent, just by having the particular team jersey on, right? So he was going to start at a pretty good place. He was a football hero in the past. A lot of people remember that. That's good for another 10 to 20 points. And so that puts him within striking range. And that's where he has been.

But he's got to really -- a really important problem, which is that, he's in that zone and it's not that common. But he's in that zone where he is on the verge of being seen as having disqualifying problems that people are saying, I just can't do it.

[16:10:07]

Nice enough guy, family, you know, maybe, quote-unquote, "too good for politics," but not ready to be in the United States Senate and vote on the economy and war and peace and diplomacy and all of the other major responsibilities that that body addresses. So I think that's the biggest problem.

The polls do show, Sara, very briefly, that after the abortion hypocrisy charge came forward, the gap between the candidates widened by two to four points. So yes, he's still in striking range but the momentum seems to be going in the direction of Senator Warnock.

SIDNER: His response to some of those allegations have been messy, to say the least. They differed in different interviews.

Let's go to Arizona now. There is a Republican gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake who is a 2020 election denier, was once again asked if she would accept the results of the election, not if she wins but if she loses. Here's her answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: You have not said that you will accept the certified results of this election even if you lose this election.

KARI LAKE (R), ARIZONA SENATE CANDIDATE: I will accept the results of this election if we have a fair, honest and transparent election, absolutely, 100 percent.

KARL: But if you were to lose and you went out and you had all your appeals and went through?

LAKE: As long as it's fair, honest and transparent. KARL: And certified. I mean, who's going to determine that? Are you

going to determine that or if it's a certified --

LAKE: It looks like my opponent might have to determine that.

KARL: Well, she is the secretary of state.

LAKE: That's an interesting conundrum, isn't it?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: OK, so that answer was an interesting conundrum, I think is what she put it, because she says her opponent is the person that would certify. There's always been a caveat it seems like when she's asked the question about whether she is going to accept that if she loses. Is this a bad look for the party or does it matter, Charlie, at this point?

DENT: Well, yes. I think it is a terrible look for the party that, you know, we have people in high positions or seeking high positions who are undermining faith and confidence in our electoral system which is actually very good. Our problems after 2020 were what happened after the election, not what happened before the election. And I think this is really having a chilling effect on voters' confidence.

And, you know, it sounds like, you know, she reminds me a lot of Doug Mastriano of Pennsylvania, except she's much more polished and she may win because the Democrat Katie Hobbs seems to be running a rather underwhelming campaign. But this is problematic that we have these people, when you're in a state like that, in Pennsylvania or Arizona, where governors and secretaries of state, you know, you have to certify elections.

This is a major issue when you have people, you know, who have a predetermined outcome in mind, and they have those positions as election administrators. That's dangerous. And I hope, you know, should she win that she will honor her oath and behave as any other governor would in a situation like this.

SIDNER: Errol, what are your concerns here? Because if you have someone that does end up losing the vote and then says, well, I don't believe it, then what happens? So what do you do?

LOUIS: Yes. The problem is not even so much whether she actually believes that the voting system is fatally flawed. But the fact that she almost has to say that. That has become a Republican talking point in so many races all around the country. That is my main concern is that if in order to be taken seriously as a candidate, one of the parties says that, well, you have to undermine faith in our basic system, you know, or else you're not a real Republican.

If that's true in any given state or district, that's poison. I mean, you can't have a democracy that way. If there's an entire organization that is dedicated to undermining belief in the very system that we trust in. You know, and then by contrast, Katie Hobbs is in a state as a secretary of state, yes, she oversees the vote, but Arizona has no lieutenant governor. She's second in line to become governor.

She has serious responsibilities that she's trying to take seriously. There was just a recent flap where they had to account for thousands of votes that they're not entirely clear about what happened with the registration.

We want I think to reward in our system people who take serious responsibility and take it seriously. Not the showmanship, not the lies, not the pandering to a misguided electorate. And that to me is what this race represents. We certainly should hope that it comes out in a way that upholds the idea that elections are fair, elections, while they have to be monitored, once it's over, we have to honor the results.

SIDNER: The results are the results. Charlie Dent and Errol Louis, thank you, gentlemen, so much for joining me.

DENT: Thanks, Sara.

LOUIS: Thank you.

SIDNER: With early voting underway across the country, CNN has uncovered that some counties have 2020 election deniers and a QAnon conspiracy believer in charge of the voting process. And they're sowing doubts about the integrity of the system.

CNN's Drew Griffin investigates.

[16:15:02]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In meetings, the chair of the Spalding County Georgia Election Board sounds like any other government official.

BEN JOHNSON, CHAIRMAN, SPALDING COUNTY ELECTION BOARD: We hang our political hats at the door when we come in and do the people's work. There ain't no room for politics and elections.

GRIFFIN: But County Elections chairman Ben Johnson's actions online tell a far different story. Johnson is beyond partisan, a staunch election denier. On social media, he posted, "To fellow insurrectionists," and he posted Biden is an illegitimate president.

WILLIAM PERRY, GEORGIA ETHICS WATCHDOGS: I think the whole structure in Spalding County is an insider threat.

GRIFFIN: Last March, Johnson wrote, "Going to do anything about the 2020 election. The flow of data from the counties should not pass through a foreign country."

(On-camera): Which is one of the key fictitious complaints about Dominion voting. So he believes in this disproven theory.

PERRY: Yet he is now running the elections of Spalding County, which also affect the entire state. It's a scary situation.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): He has posted about QAnon more than a dozen times, including this supportive tweet. "I hate to say it, but a hell of a lot of the information dropped by Q has turned out to be accurate. Red, white and Q," he writes, and other nonsensical codes that are the hallmark of the conspiracy group.

Keep in mind, as chair of the election board, Johnson is in charge of the county's certification of election results. Dexter Wimbish, a Democrat who sits on the election board with Johnson says Johnson always acts professionally but --

DEXTER WIMBISH, SPALDING COUNTY BOARD OF ELECTIONS: The community has concerns about officials who are in positions where they could potentially impact the outcome of an election.

GRIFFIN: Now CNN has learned the Fulton County District Attorney intends to subpoena Ben Johnson and two other Spalding County elections officials as part of the investigation into efforts by Donald Trump and his allies to overturn Georgia's 2020 presidential election.

WIMBISH: There is a concerted effort to suppress the vote of people in this country. There is an effort to make people believe that the government does not believe in democracy. And that's just not -- that's just not true.

GRIFFIN: Election deniers who are now in charge of elections across the country are a concern to pro-democracy groups nationwide. In one Nevada County, the new interim clerk in charge of elections was one of six so-called fake electors in Nevada. In Michigan, according to police, the clerk of Lake Township believes the 2020 election was fraudulent and shared voting machine materials with someone allegedly involved in the breach of those machines.

In Colorado, the sitting clerk of Elbert County spreads debunk conspiracies that voting machines contain hackable wireless devices.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How am I supposed to know if anybody has used that wireless device to access our system?

LAWRENCE NORDEN, BRENNAN CENTER FOR JUSTICE: The danger is that these are people who may lie about election results, who are certainly likely to cast doubt about the trustworthiness of elections.

GRIFFIN: As for Ben Johnson, and what he has to say about all this, in a word, nothing. He's refused to answer questions, in an e-mail accused CNN of being on a witch hunt. When we went to his Spalding County offices, we were told on the phone that he was in a meeting. But when we tried talking to him.

(On-camera): Hey, is Ben Johnson in?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's not. Can I help you?

GRIFFIN: Are you sure? (Voice-over): Spalding County early voting under the leadership of an

election denier began this week.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Sara, these are election deniers running elections, who still believe in the disproven myths of 2020. The question is, here in 2022, can they run a fair election -- Sara.

SIDNER: Drew Griffin, always bringing us excellent and in-depth and important reporting. Thank you for that.

Early voters in Georgia are turning out in record numbers. That's where some of the most closely watched midterm races are. One of which could determine which party takes control of the U.S. Senate.

Our Nadia Romero is joining us live from a polling location in Atlanta, Georgia.

Nadia, let us know what you're seeing. I know that you've talked to a few people there today.

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Sara, a lot of people really excited about coming out and voting and being part of this early voting process. This is the first Saturday of early voting here in the state of Georgia. And look at the lines of this one polling location right here in the heart of Atlanta.

We spoke with one voter who told us it took her about 27 minutes to wait in line. And then, when she got in line, it took her just about 10 minutes to actually cast her ballot. That process was pretty easy.

Now this polling location, they say they've seen about 4,000 people since Monday. Already coming to make sure that their voices are heard. Take a look at the state-wide Georgia numbers. And as you mentioned, Sara, we're talking about record voter turnout, especially when you compare this year so far, compared to the same time period back in 2018. More than 660,000 Georgians have already voted.

[16:20:01]

At this point in 2018, we're looking at 398,000. So a significant increase. And part of that is those key races. Here, the gubernatorial race, you have incumbent Republican Governor Bryant Kemp with a rematch, going up against his Democratic challenger, Stacey Abrams. The other big piece, you mentioned it, the key Senate race here. Raphael Warnock, the incumbent, going up against Herschel Walker with that celebrity factor and being backed by the former President Donald Trump.

I want you to hear from two women who explained why these races matter so much to them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KESHAWN HAYNES, GEORGIA VOTER: I think it has turned into a circus, if you want to be honest. Some of the things that are being said, you don't even know if they can even be true, you know, some of the things. But I know that that is an important race because if the wrong person gets into office, then even more things could change just for my community.

VERONICA HAYGOOD, GEORGIA VOTER: I think Stacey Abrams and Warnock is a great team together and that they will put their best foot forward as to look out for not just the Democrat but the Republican, as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMERO: So this is Fulton County. This is where you have your largest population of the state. This is where we've seen most of the ballots cast so far. Along with key races, it's key issues like abortion, health care, the economy, inflation.

The goal, though, Sara, is to leave with one of these stickers. Your Georgia peach. This says that you voted. People have been walking out proudly with these stickers on their shirts, letting everyone know that they participated in the democratic process -- Sara.

SIDNER: Nadia, I got to tell you, after seeing the story by Drew Griffin, talking about election deniers running elections in some places, seeing that line behind you and seeing the enthusiasm for people who really care about what is happening in our political system, it's heartening. It's lovely. I'm so glad you showed us that. Thank you so much, Nadia.

Coming up, a CNN exclusive. New details about a Uvalde officer who gave an order to delay reaching the classroom where children were killed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:26:11]

SIDNER: New fallout after the Uvalde school massacre. A Texas state trooper who was among the first to respond to the shooting has been fired. The Texas Department of Public Safety won't say why they've decided to let go of Sergeant Juan Maldonado. CNN, though, reported in August that Maldonado was seen on video arriving to Robb Elementary School just four minutes and 51 seconds after the shooting began. And despite that, it took over an hour for officers to breach the classroom and kill the shooter.

Also in Uvalde, a Texas state police officer is under investigation after ordering officers to hold off entering a classroom, where a gunman was holed up with the children and teachers.

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz has this exclusive report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Amid the chaos at Robb Elementary in Uvalde, Texas, where nearly 400 law enforcement responded to a deadly school shooting last May, CNN has learned commands by a high-ranking state police officer may have contributed to the broader failed response that day.

While a gunman sat in a room full of dead, dying and traumatized children, new police radio transmissions obtained by CNN show Texas Department of Public Safety Captain Joe Betancourt giving an order to stop police from entering the classroom. And one internal memo describes him before he arrives telling officers to stay away from the school and remain on the perimeter during the initial response to the shooting.

Captain Betancourt was one of 91 DPS officers on scene in Uvalde. We are now learning he is one of the seven referred for further investigation over his actions. After lionizing the police response in the initial days, the Texas governor and state officials have pushed the blame for what has since been acknowledged as a failure on the local and school police. But CNN has now reviewed memos written just two days after the shooting that detail actions by the DPS that allegedly went against protocol for mass shootings.

One lieutenant wrote, "I heard someone shout out, Captain Betancourt said all DPS personnel need to be on perimeter. Do not enter the building." And a sergeant reported he knew this was clearly against established training. And so he entered the school anyway." By the time Betancourt says he arrived outside Robb Elementary, students and teachers had already been trapped for more than an hour.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They think there's kids in there. Supposedly one kid called in and he was in there with him.

JOSHUA BRODOVSKY, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: We don't know if he has anyone in the room with him, do we?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he does.

BRODOVSKY: He does.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eight or nine children.

PROKUPECZ: Some at the scene like this Border Patrol medic are aware of the urgency inside the classroom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought he said victims, room 12.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we hadn't heard that, no. We're in the fours, right? This is building four?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anybody hurt?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, not here. No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, there are.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: EMS in there already? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know. No, sir. We have an active shooter in

there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's in here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's in here. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, I'll stand here and be ready.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last contact -- hold on. The last contact we had was one of our school PD officers. His wife is a teacher. She called him and said she's dying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They just had a number of kids in room 12. A kid in room 12. Most of the victims in room 12.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED), we're taking too long.

PROKUPECZ: A Border Patrol Tactical Unit is preparing to end the standoff and stormed the classroom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Units making breach, come in.

PROKUPECZ: In a move that sources tell CNN has shocked people inside DPS, Betancourt picked up his radio and try to stop the breach.

CAPT. JOE BETANCOURT, TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: Hey, this is DPS Captain Betancourt. The team that's going to make breach needs to stand by. The team that's going to breach needs to stand by.

[16:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PROKUPECZ (voice over): The transmission can be clearly heard on several body worn cameras inside and outside the hallway of Robb Elementary.

The tactical unit was already making entry.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER (voice-over): Subject down. Subject down.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Kids. Kids. Kids.

PROKUPECZ: The shooter is killed and a devastating scene is revealed inside the classroom.

In an interview with investigators that has been detailed to CNN, Betancourt said he did not know there were any children in the building until after the breach. That's despite 9-1-1 calls from children inside the room.

Betancourt says he was relying on information from Uvalde Sheriff Ruben Nolasco that the gunman was a barricaded subject, and no longer an active shooter, and that a better SWAT team was on its way.

He admits he never spoke to former School Police Chief Pete Arredondo, who has been labeled the on-scene commander, until after the shooter was killed.

The memo referencing Betancourt's actions, and another corroborating it, are some of the clearest evidence that questions are being raised internally at the Department of Public Safety about the actions of its officers.

His orders over the radio contradict the official narrative that the State Police were never in command of the scene and never issued substantive orders.

When questioned by CNN in September, DPS Director Colonel Steve McCraw confirmed the investigation into Betancourt and promised to resign if his agency was shown to have culpability for the botched response.

PROKUPECZ (on camera): Was there --

(CROSSTALK)

PROKUPECZ: There is apparently footage of him inside the hallway, telling people not to breach that door. Have you heard that?

COL. STEVE MCCRAW, DIRECTOR, DPS: You know, I've heard a lot of things.

PROKUPECZ: But is there any credibility?

MCCRAW: Look, I don't know if there is or not. But that's one of the reasons why we're doing the investigation. OK?

PROKUPECZ: I know. I know.

MCCRAW: And we're going to be -- we're going to be thorough.

(CROSSTALK)

PROKUPECZ: And let me just explain something to you.

(CROSSTALK)

PROKUPECZ: I don't want to do this but your --

(CROSSTALK)

MCCRAW: Hey, I'll be the first resign. OK? I'll gladly resign. I'll turn in my resignation to the Governor. OK? If I think there is any culpability of the Department of Public Safety. Period. OK?

But we're going to hold our officers accountable. No one gets a pass. But every officer is going to be held accountable.

(CROSSTALK) PROKUPECZ: But you are looking at this Captain Betancourt for information that you have that he may have told the officers not to go in the hallway?

MCCRAW: Yes. Yes, absolutely.

PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Shimon Prokupecz, CNN, Uvalde, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: Incredibly important reporting for the families and for all of to understand what happened there in Uvalde.

President Biden is now facing an interesting lawsuit. It was filed over the delaying of the release of thousands of secret government files that might shed some light on the 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

What is still hidden? And will we ever find out? That story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:37:03]

SIDNER: It's been nearly 60 years since President John F. Kennedy's assassination, yet it still remains a source of tremendous intrigue.

Now, President Biden is facing mounting legal pressure for postponing the release of a final trove of about 16,000 records related to the 1963 assassination.

The Mary Ferrell Foundation, the nation's largest online source of JFK assassination records, is now suing President Biden and the National Archives to release them.

The lawsuit alleges that the feds have unlawfully redacted other previously released records.

Back in 1992, then-President George H.W. Bush signed off on the JFK Records Act, which required all related documents be made public by October 26, 2017.

It hasn't all happened. The National Archives say at least 88 percent of the collection has been released to the public.

And as for the remaining 12 percent, well, Donald Trump delayed some of it, citing national security reasons. Last year, Biden blamed the pandemic for slowing the review process.

The delay has prompted historians and transparency advocates and even some members of the Kennedy family to question the government's motives.

When asked about the lawsuit this week, the White House declined to comment. Joining us now is Jefferson Morley. He's the vice president of the

Mary Ferrell Foundation, the group suing for the release of the final JFK records. He is also the editor of the "JFK Facts" blog.

Now can you explain to us, Jefferson, why are these files so important the get out there?

JEFFERSON MORLEY, VICE PRESIDENT, MARY FERRELL FOUNDATION & EDITOR, "JFK FACTS": This is about 5 percent of the government's collection of JFK assassination records that still contain redactions, nearly 60 years after the fact.

And as you explained, you know, we're five years past the deadline set by Congress for full disclosure. The law says that, after 25 years, JFK records should only be withheld in the rarest of cases. That's the language of the law.

In response to the language of the law, the CIA says, we're going to withhold 11,275 back documents with redactions. That's what the CIA means with the rarest of cases. So they're not complying with the law.

We're going to court saying someone has to enforce the law here. It's up to the president. We think of our lawsuit has a constructive solution for the president to solve this problem.

SIDNER: I'm curious, from the words from then-President Trump, who, at the time, said the documents were being delayed because of national security reasons. What do you make of that reason?

MORLEY: The reasoning is mostly speeches. When you look at what they've been withholding in the past, a lot of the time, it's completely trivial.

[16:39:59:]

One document that was withheld for 50 years, said that the United States and Great Britain had an intelligence-sharing relationship. That's no secret to anybody.

That's the kind of --

(CROSSTALK)

SIDNER: We know that now.

MORLEY: Right. So there's rampant overclassification.

The other thing, though, is they are hiding significant information about the causes of the assassination.

Let's be very clear here about what they're hiding, OK? What they're hiding is the agency's pre-assassination interest in Lee Harvey Oswald, the man who is accused of shooting the president and he denied it.

The CIA has always tried to downplay how much they knew about Oswald before the assassination. And they are continuing to do that to this day.

So there's a lot of trivial information that is being withheld. And there's some very serious information that's being withheld.

SIDNER: I have to ask you, after you talking about the parts of the investigation that you haven't been able to see because they haven't been released, even though they were supposed to be released five years ago.

I have to wonder, do you worry this is going to really hype up, if you will, the conspiracy theorists that are out there that will point to this and say, why are they hiding this?

(CROSSTALK)

SIDNER: Do you have the concerns?

MORLEY: Absolutely. I mean, conspiracy theories have flourished because the government's theory of the crime is not very credible.

And if you blow the deadline, if the CIA blows the deadline for full disclosure, people will be very skeptical and suspicious, naturally. I mean, it's the appropriate reaction. It is suspicious behavior.

Now, come December 15th, we expect that the CIA is going to obey the law. They will not make President Biden look bad. And they're really going to only withhold in the rarest of cases.

So we hope and expect the CIA to comply with the law.

SIDNER: Jefferson Morley, thank you so much. We will be waiting and watching to see if that happens. And coming up --

(CROSSTALK)

SIDNER: We appreciate your time.

What led to this dramatic moment? China's former president being unexpectedly removed from the closing ceremony of the Communist Party Congress?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:46:17]

SIDNER: We have new video for you of the dramatic and, so far, unexplained moment the former president of China was led by the arm, by all appearances reluctantly, out of the Communist Party's closing ceremony.

The current president, Xi Jinping, who he was sitting next to, apparently brushing him off as he tries to speak to him on the way out.

CNN's Selina Wang is in Hong Kong with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SELINA WANG, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Xi Jinping's authoritarian rule over China will be ironclad well into the future. He is all but assured on Sunday to be reanointed for an unprecedented third time as China's supreme leader, setting himself up to be ruler for life.

Today marks the official close of the 20th Party Congress, China's most important political meeting in decades. This is a highly scripted and choreographed Communist Party event that happens once every five years.

But there was a bizarre and astonishing moment that was caught on camera by journalists in the ceremony room.

See in the video, the man seated next to Xi, is China's former top leader, Hu Jintao. After several confusing moments, he is led out of the room, escorted by two men. A staff member holding his arm.

He appears reluctant to leave. On his way out, he is seen saying something to Xi and then patting Premiere Li Keqiang on the shoulder.

Chinese politics is incredibly opaque. We will never know the true circumstances around this incident. And it has not been reported at all by Chinese media.

But this dramatic moment has already set off a firestorm of speculation overseas. People are wondering, was this because of a health issue or was it a political statement?

Some analysts are saying, regardless of the reason, it is a symbolic moment. It shows the exit of a man who represented collective rule. While Xi Jinping, well, he represents strongman rule.

Since he took over in 2012, he has purged his rivals. He has crushed descent. And has reasserted Communist Party control over every aspect of Chinese society.

Tomorrow, we will see who Xi's closest advisers will be. But we've already got a lot of hints today. We heard that Premier Li Keqiang and another top leader, who are not seen as having close ties to Xi, well, they are set to retire.

What is clear is that Xi is going to stack the top leadership positions with his loyalists.

So in the third term, expect to see Xi Jinping double down on his iron rule over China. That means a more authoritarian China at home and more aggressive China abroad.

Selina Wang, CNN, Hong Kong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: Our thanks to Selina for that report.

[16:48:56]

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:53:37]

SIDNER: This week, on a brand-new episode of "SEARCHING FOR ITALY," Stanley Tucci is heading to the heel of Italy's boot. Puglia is a region known for its fresh and simple food, along with its delicious olive oil.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STANLEY TUCCI, CNN HOST, "STANLEY TUCCI, SEARCHING FOR ITALY": So can we taste the olive oil?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course.

TUCCI: These are the olives we were looking at before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, this is the best olive oil in the world.

(LAUGHTER)

TUCCI: According to the producer, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I show you how to do it.

TUCCI: Show me how to do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to make it a little warmer. All the flavor comes up.

TUCCI: Up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then you have to smell it.

TUCCI: I didn't know it would be so complicated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We take this very seriously.

TUCCI: Yes, I know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then we have to taste it, yes?

TUCCI: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But there's a specific way to do it.

TUCCI: I won't do it.

(SNIFFING)

TUCCI: What are you doing?

(SNIFFING)

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This way the oil will --

(CROSSTALK)

TUCCI: Aerate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aerate, yes.

TUCCI: Yes.

(SNIFFING)

TUCCI: Wait. How do you do it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You put your tongue up.

TUCCI: Up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then you --

(SNIFFING)

(SNIFFING)

TUCCI: Yes, but that's delicious, though.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: I would have eaten all the bread in that olive oil before they got done with that test.

"STANLEY TUCCI, SEARCHING FOR ITALY" airs tomorrow night at 9:00, right here on CNN.

[16:54:57]

Incredible new video of a bison attack. Rebecca Clark was hiking in a Texas state park when she stumbled upon a herd of bison.

We have to warn you that the video is disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(GROWLING)

REBECCA CLARK, TOURIST: Oh, no. (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(SCREAMING)

CLARK: Oh, my god. Oh.

There he is again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: That is terrifying.

Clark survived and said the bison tossed her in the air and gored her and then stood over her as she lay face down in the bushes.

Now, after nearly an hour without cell service, Clark's texts, pleading for help, finally went through. She was rescued and luckily will recover from her wounds.

But it is a good reminder to keep at least 50 yards away from any bison.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)