Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Tory Leadership Race for Next U.K. Prime Minister; U.S. Midterm Elections has Voters Concerned on Inflation, Economy and Crime; Russia Claims Ukraine to Use Dirty Bombs; Protests in Iran Continues. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired October 24, 2022 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[02:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN HOST: Hello, and a warm welcome to our viewers joining us in the United States and all around the world. Live from outside the U.K. Houses of Parliament, I'm Christina Macfarlane. The revolving door at Number 10 Downing Street will not swing open for Boris Johnson again. The former prime minister stands down ahead of today's critical conservative leadership vote.

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN HOST: And live from CNN world headquarters here in Atlanta, I'm Rosemary Church. I will have details on all our other top stories, including midterm crunch time in the United States. New polling suggesting sky-high voter interest an extreme polarization with the election just 15 days away.

MACFARLANE: It's 7:00 a.m. here in London where all eyes are fixed on the Tory leadership race. And in the hours ahead, we could learn who is poised to become the next leader of the ruling Conservative Party and the new prime minister. Boris Johnson on Sunday said he would not be entering the race, though he claimed he had enough support to move forward.

That leaves former finance minister Rishi Sunak and House of Commons Leader Penny Mordaunt in the running. In the coming hours, the Conservative Party will announce which candidates have reached the necessary 100 nominations and whether a vote will follow to determine the next leader of the party and the country.

Well, whoever comes out on top will be Britain's third prime minister in just a matter of weeks after Liz Truss stepped down on Thursday. Well, our Scott McLean has been following developments and joins us now live from outside 10 Downing Street. And Scott, Johnson's decision not to stand late on Sunday now makes it all the more likely that perhaps Rishi Sunak will be the next prime minister.

But it was a very late call from Johnson step down after a feverish weekend of rumors. Presumably, this will now give Penny Mordaunt a shot at well, Scott, at reading that 100 vote mark.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Correct, if she can reach that 100 vote mark is the key phrase here and she has a pretty big uphill battle to do that, at least if you consult the British press and what they are reporting which shows her well behind that 100 mark at this stage of the game. But she has sort of built herself as the great uniter between the Rishi Sunak camps and the Boris Johnson camps.

So, if she can get 100, that will determine whether this will be an actual leadership contest or merely a coronation for Rishi Sunak. What's interesting, Christina, is that Boris Johnson didn't actually ever formally declared himself in the race, but he did come back from vacation in the Caribbean to feverishly start hammering the phones to try to drum up support.

And he did manage to get support from some high-profile backers. He says that he had more than 100 MPs behind him and he says that he could have won, but in a statement that he put out last night, he says, "But over the course of the last days, I had sadly come to the conclusion that this would simply not be the right thing to do. You can't govern effectively unless you have the united party in parliament. Therefore, I am afraid that the best thing is that I do not allow my nomination to go forward and commit my support to whoever succeeds. I believe I have much to offer, but I'm afraid that this is simply not the right time."

So, clearly leaving the door open there for a potential future run at Number 10 Downing Street. So now, he also mentioned conversations that he had with Rishi Sunak and Penny Mordaunt. If you read the British press, those conversations were to try to convince either of the two to drop their candidacy in exchange for position in Boris Johnson's government, or perhaps, vice versa.

Rishi Sunak has some work to do in winning over the support of Johnson supporters because he is largely seen as the man who ultimately led to Johnson's downfall when he resigned as chancellor, well, frankly, not that long ago.

And so, he put out a statement that was pretty conciliatory saying, "Boris Johnson delivered Brexit and the great vaccine rollout. He led our country through some of the toughest challenges we have ever faced, and then took on Putin in is barbaric war in Ukraine. We will always be grateful to him for that. Although he has decided not to run for MP again, I truly hope he continues to contribute to public life."

[02:05:01]

So, as I said, if Penny Mordaunt manages to get to 100 supporters, then, well, we'll have a contest. The MPs would vote on who their preferred candidate would be. And if no one drops out at that stage, then this would go to a vote of the party membership. And then at that point, it's really anyone's guess who might actually come out on top.

If she does not reach 100 MPs, and we'll know that in less than seven hours from now, Christina, well, then Rishi Sunak will effectively have somewhat of a coronation. But of course, he still has his own set of baggage coming into Downing Street. Certainly not -- has not been immune from controversy over the last few months himself.

MACFARLANE: Yeah, absolutely, his own set of baggage. Scott McLean for us for now. Thanks very much, Scott, outside 10 Downing Street. Well, joining me from Belgium is Andrew Blick. He's a professor of politics and contemporary history and the head of the Department of Political Economy at King's College London. Thank you so much for your time this morning.

The suggestion was, Andrew, that if Boris Johnson had managed to make that 100 vote count, that he probably wouldn't have had enough supporters, enough ministers to actually formed a government. How much have the party and the country here avoided more political chaos with Boris Johnson deciding to withdraw last night?

ANDREW BLICK, PROFESSOR OF POLITICS AND CONTEMPORARY HISTORY, KING'S COLLEGE LONDON: I think had Johnson secured that support, decided to go forward and actually really had the support, which he claimed he had, which is not clear, the vote would have gone to the members. And there is a reason whereas for supposing that the members might well have chosen him.

But I think as you said, at that point, it would've been an incredible pushback from within his own parliamentary party. And I think although these things don't happen very often in U.K. politics and I hesitate to make this kind of pitch, I think there's a real chance the Conservative Party would have actually split over this issue and would have found people within the Conservative Parliamentary Party looking very carefully.

Not only were they able to serve as ministers, but were they even be able to take the whip (ph) to be conservative members while Johnson was leader of the Conservative Party. I think that's how bad it could have gotten, particularly when you consider he's still under investigation for his small contempt of the House by the House of Commons Standard Committee, which could even have led to him being removed from the House of Commons while serving as a prime minister.

MACFARLANE: Yeah, that could have come as soon as next month, which is a frightening prospect. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the political chaos is over, even if it's Penny Mordaunt or Rishi Sunak to go forward especially in Rishi Sunak's case. I mean, he caused a lot of turmoil, of course, and many in the party hold him responsible for Boris Johnson's demise when he decided to quit the cabinet back this summer.

So, is he going to be able to be this unity candidate that the Tory Party need or on the evidence of what we're hearing about the number of MP votes that he has, is that indicative of the fact that he is going to be able to do that?

BLICK: Sunak certainly has plurality support among the Conservative Parliamentary Party. He is the most favored candidate, but there is still a section of the party which do not want him, which will not be happy about this. It is significant that people he wants might have expected to to back Johnson, such as Suella Braverman, such as Lord Frost, David Frost, actually (inaudible) their hands behind Sunak.

And it would suggest there was some momentum in Sunak's direction. However, one point here is that Sunak is the potential leader who was rejected by the conservative membership not that long, over a month ago. Sunak, as you say, was involved closely in the downfall of Johnson, having served under Johnson for a long period of time. He has baggage. He was found to have broken the law over lockdowns, just as Johnson was, which is something which is not being talked about much now.

And there's a lot of scrutiny also of his financial affairs while he was chancellor of the exchequer, nothing actually found to have been actually wrong, but lots of scrutiny. So, well, those factors could play into it.

And when we look at those who have swung around from what you might call the right of the party to backing him, one wonders, what are they actually expecting out of him? And if he doesn't deliver it, how are they going to turn on him again? Are we going to see this kind of split re-emerging, which I think is always a strong possibility.

MACFARLANE: So, this split is potentially on the horizon now whichever way you look at it. So, a lot of work still to be done if it is indeed Rishi Sunak who was announce later today at 2:00 p.m. Professor Andrew Blick, thank you so much for joining us this morning. We appreciate it.

BLICK: Thanks, Catherine.

MACFARLANE: Well, we'll have more from London just ahead. But right now, let's toss it back to our Rosemary Church in Atlanta with the other top stories today. Rosemary.

[02:09:58]

CHURCH: Thank you so much, Christina. We'll be back with you shortly. And just over two weeks until the U.S. midterm elections. Inflation and the economy are the top of voter's minds. The latest CNN poll shows voters are showing equal support for both parties. And a senator from Missouri says Republicans will take a majority of the House seats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ROY BLUNT (R-MO): I think they are responsible. The American voters are going to hold them responsible on election day. I think there's no question Republicans will gain control of the house in a very narrow environment. Just as likely as not to gain control of the Senate. But they -- we still won't have control of the administration. And bad regulatory policies and bad energy policies will continue to stoke what is now a fire of inflation that got way out of hand before Democrats knew what they were doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: But House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says Republicans have offered no solutions to the real issues at hand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): The fight is not about inflation. It's

about the cost of living. And if you look at what we have done to bring down the cost of prescription drugs, to bring down the cost of energy and the rest in our legislation, you will see that there has been opposed every step of the way by the Republicans and they have no plan for lowering the cost of living or helping with inflation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: For more, let's bring in political analyst Michael Genovese, president of the Global Policy Institute at Loyola Marymount University, and the author of "The Modern Presidency: Six Debates that Defined the Institution." And he joins me now from Los Angeles. Thank you so much for being with us.

MICHAEL GENOVESE, POLITICAL ANALYST: Always a pleasure, Rosemary.

CHURCH: So, midterm elections just over two weeks away and a recent NBC News poll shows 70 percent of registered voters are highly interested in the election, the largest percentage ever recorded at this point before the vote, suggesting turnout could be very high. But Republicans do have the edge on enthusiasm. So, what might this loss of momentum mean for the Democrats come November?

GENOVESE: Well, you know, about six months ago it looked like a runaway for the Republicans, a red tsunami. Two months ago, the Democrats kind of caught up with the Republicans. But in the last few weeks, the issues have become more focused on things like voter's concern about inflation, crime, immigration. Those have really become the keys.

For the Democrats, the big issue is of course abortion. That looked like a year ago it was going to be a hugely important issue for a turnout. Less so now because a lot of the suburban women who want to vote for Democrats because of abortion issues now are saying, wait a minute, it's the economy, it's inflation, it's pocketbook issues.

CHURCH: Right. And of course, inflation, the economy, crime, as you say, top issues for voters. So, what's likely to happen in the Senate when it comes to the critical battleground states of Nevada, Arizona, Pennsylvania, and of course, Georgia?

GENOVESE: Well, a lot there depends on the quality of candidates. Donald Trump is not literally on the ballot, but a lot of his handpicked candidates are. For example, over half of the Republican nominees for positions this term are election deniers. And so, a lot is going to depend on whether voters are interested in the national concerns with Donald Trump at the lead, or if it's going to be local issues and local candidates.

Now, Pennsylvania is a good example where you've got some really tight races going on, the governor, but even more so for the Senate. And it's going to be a turnout. You mentioned turnout, that's going to be an important thing. The enthusiasm gap, if there is one, could turn the tide in the election.

CHURCH: And what do you expect to happen in the House?

GENOVESE: I expect in the House, if past is prelude, the president's party loses about 25, 26 seats in the House and five in the Senate. My pick right now is the Democrats will lose about 20 in the House and maybe one or two in the Senate. That does not sound like a lot and it's better than historical standards. But, remember, if that happens, Republicans win control of the House and the Senate.

And therefore, our President Biden will not be able to get legislation through. He will have to govern more as an administrative or as a managerial president.

CHURCH: Yeah, a critical point of course. And that NBC News poll that I mentioned also shows that 81 percent of Democrats believe the Republicans agenda poses a threat, while 79 percent of Republicans say the same about the Democrats. So, if so, many voters are worried about democracy, along with economic issues, abortion rights, and gun violence, why is Senator Bernie Sanders so concerned about Democratic voter turnout, especially among the young and working people?

[02:15:03]

GENOVESE: Well, you know, young voters, for them the main concerns are jobs, which is a Democratic issue, and the environment. The problem is the young voters have to be really motivated, they have to get out and vote in massive numbers, and Bernie Sanders is correct. Right, now it does not feel like there's a great groundswell of young voters anxious to go to the polls.

You know, if you're a 40-year-old person with two kids and a mortgage, inflation is a big deal to you. If you're 20 years old in college, that might not be the number one issue for you, but you've got to be motivated. And President Biden and the Democrats have not thus far done a great job of motivating young voters the way they need to.

CHURCH: Michael Genovese, always a pleasure to have you on and get your political analysis. Many thanks.

GENOVESE: Thank you, Rosemary.

CHURCH: And still to come, the U.S. is pushing back against Russia after its foreign minister makes an unsupported claim about Ukraine. Why Washington believes it's an attempt to escalate the war.

Students at Iranian schools and universities were back protesting in the streets Sunday, as a hacking attack breach e-mail servers at Iran's Civil Nuclear Agency. We will have the latest in a live report.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:20:00]

CHURCH: The U.S., U.K. and France are joining Ukraine in rejecting an unsupported claim from Russia that Kyiv may use a dirty bomb. Russia's defense minister made the suggestion while speaking with some of his western counterparts on Sunday, but all of them say it's an attempt by Moscow to escalate the war on Ukraine. CNN's Nic Robertson joins us now with more. Good to see you, Nic. So, Russia accusing Ukraine of planning to use a dirty bomb on its own territory, what all is the west saying about this?

NIC ROBETSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: A transparently false allegation is what the joint statement from the French, British and U.S. foreign ministers said after their defense ministers have spoke separately. Interestingly, at their own request where Sergei Shoigu, and I think there obviously many points to look at here, but one that I find particularly interesting is that the U.S. defense secretary, Lloyd, Austin, spoke with Sergei Shoigu for only the second time during Russia's war in Ukraine, just a couple of days ago, two or three days ago.

And the fact that the follow-up from that is the British, the French, and the U.S. should request follow on phone calls with Shoigu, suggests that Lloyd Austin in his first phone call heard things of deep concern and wanted to make roundly clear that the allegations that Sergei Shoigu is putting forward are false, very likely warned Russia of potential consequences about escalation.

Russia is continually being warned by the west against further escalation here. President Zelenskyy said that if Russia is already making these false allegations, then this means that Russia has already prepared itself such a dirty bomb. And we do know that President Putin over recent weeks has chosen to listen to the hard- liners more. And at a fork in the road where he's had reversals and losses in Ukraine, has chosen to double down in the fight and listened more to the hard-liners than others in his administration.

So, this is a very real concern. It may also point to a complete paucity in Russia's intelligence about what's actually going on in Ukraine. That can't be overlooked, either. Russia's intelligence at the beginning of the war was woefully inadequate. They thought they were going to walk in, that it would be an easy victory. They lost thousands upon thousands of lives based on that false understanding of the situation here.

But at the moment, this is being taken as a very real threat by Russia and seriously enough for all those defense ministers, Britain, France, U.S., to call up, tell Russia it's not true, it's not going to happen. Don't do it.

CHURCH: Alright. Nic Robertson joining us live there. Appreciate the update on the situation on the ground.

Well, students marched and demonstrated across Iran Sunday in the latest show of anti-government sentiment in the country. This video from the pro-reform outlet IranWire shows female students confronting Iranian paramilitary forces at a university outside Tehran. And in this IranWire video, you can see high school students marching in a Kurdish city.

Demonstrations over the death of Mahsa Amini while she was in the custody of the morality police have gone on for weeks now. And they have evolved into protest against the government itself. So, let's go to CNN's Anna Coren. She joins us live from Hong Kong with more on all of this. Good to see you, Anna.

So, what is the latest on these brave and defiant demonstrations across Iran, but also a hacking attack at the country's civil nuclear agency?

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Rosemary. Let me start with the protests because they have now entered their sixth week. You mentioned those demonstrations on the campuses of universities, on the street by school students. I mean, it's these courageous acts that we are seeing, you know, week after week.

But we should mention that the global protests, those solidarity protests that we saw take place in Germany, in the United States, in Japan and Australia, among other countries, have emboldened those protesters. I spoke to a resident in Tehran a short time ago and he told me that people heard about what took place in these countries.

[02:25:00]

And hence, it motivated them to then take to the streets. Even though there are outages of the internet, their censorship, that you know, people are obviously getting around that with VPN's and they know the news that is coming in of this Iranian diaspora that wants to inspire those on the ground to continue protesting, you know, in Iran six weeks on.

You mentioned that hacking incident, the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran has confirmed that its e-mail system was hacked. Iran claims that it's a foreign country behind it. An organization called Black Reward, which is an antigovernment hacking group, says it is responsible. It has given the Iranian government 24 ultimatum, 24-hour ultimatum.

It said either release these detained protesters or they will release embarrassing documents among the 100,000 e-mail messages and plans of the Bushehr nuclear power plant that they've already disseminated. But they said, and I quote, "they will have no answer to their Russian bosses." That is the ultimatum that this hacking group has made to the Iranian regime, Rosemary.

CHURCH: Anna Coren, bringing us all of that from Hong Kong, many thanks. Well, in the coming hours, Britain may name its next prime minister, the third in a few short weeks. But how did the U.K. fall into this cycle of quick change leadership? We'll get more from Christina in London in just a few moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:29:59]

MACFARLANE: Welcome back to our viewers from all around the world. I'm Christina MacFarlane live from just outside the U.K. houses of Parliament.

In the hours ahead here in London, we could find out who will become the next leader of the ruling conservative party and the new prime minister. We do know it won't be Boris Johnson who announced on Sunday he won't be entering the Tory leadership race even though he said he received enough support to move forward. That leaves former finance minister Rishi Sunak and the House of Commons leader Penny Morduant in the running in the coming hours.

The Conservative Party will announce which candidates have received the necessary 100 nominations and whether a vote will follow to determine the next leader of the party and of the country. Well, this all comes just days after Liz Truss stepped down as prime minister after only 45 days in office. The revolving door of British leaders has started with the U.K.'s exit from the European Union. CNN's Anna Stewart has more now on the political upheaval triggered by Brexit.

ANNOUNCER: Breaking news.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The stunning decision, Britain is ending its 43-year long relationship with the European Union.

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: From the moment this happened. U.K. has been caught up in tumultuous times. There have been resignations.

DAVID CAMERON, THEN-BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I think the country requires fresh leadership to take it in this direction.

STEWART: Promotions. And a lot of late-night votes as the country tried to get Brexit done. It was the undoing of Theresa May.

THERESA MAY, THEN-BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The second female prime minister, but certainly not the last.

STEWART: In the end, it fell to Boris Johnson. He won an election with a resounding majority and eventually but the political chaos didn't end just months after Brexit. The COVID-19 pandemic hit the U.K. hard. There was tragedy as more than 200,000 people died and many more were hospitalized, including the prime minister. There was also fast as top officials were forced out for breaking their own social distancing rules.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those of us who make these rules have got to stick by them.

STEWART: Including the prime minister with a scandal known as Party Gate. A row over illegal gatherings held at number 10 during lockdowns. Johnson was forced to resign.

BORIS JOHNSON, THEN-BRITIS PRIME MINISTER: The baton will be handed over in what does unexpectedly turned out to be a relay race.

STEWART: His replacement didn't fare much better.

In implosion in the U.K. economy following a so-called mini budget full of unfunded tax cuts, led to Liz Truss becoming the U.K.'s shorter serving prime minister.

LIZ TRUSS, THEN-BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I cannot deliver the mandate on which I was elected by the Conservative Party and leaving.

STEWART: And leaving her successor with a multitude of challenges and no end in sight to the chaos.

Anna Stewart, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: Well as the sun comes up here in London, our coverage of the contest for Britain's next prime minister will be continuing in the next hour. But right now let's get back to our Rosemary Church with more of the headlines from around the world. Rosemary.

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Thanks so much, Christina. We'll see you at the top of the hour.

And still to come. China's leader begins a third term with a new ruling body. How this will ensure Xi Jinping will gain greater control over all aspects of policymaking. Back with that in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:36:58]

CHURCH: Startling new video coming in from the Philippines where a Korean air passenger plane overran the runway. Thankfully there were no injuries and all 162 passengers safely evacuated the aircraft. The airline said the flight which originated in South Korea had attempted to land twice in poor weather before overshooting the runway on the third attempt.

In China, Xi Jinping has begun an unprecedented third term as the country's leader. He is now governing with a loyal team after promoting allies to the country's ruling body. But some fear his appointments will favor political ideology over economic growth. Today, stocks in Hong Kong slid in early trading, even as China released stronger than expected GDP numbers. And CNN's Steven Jiang joins us now with more. Good to see you, Steven.

So President Xi surrounding himself with loyalists as he expands his power, but what are the risks involved in such a strategy and what impact could this have globally?

STEVEN JIANG, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF: Yes, Rosemary. That's a very important and timely question because when you look at this lineup of the new Politburo Standing Committee, the number two ranked, the Li Qiang and the number six ranked Ding Xuexiang. These two men are expected to become China's next premier and executive vice premier. Basically, they will be in charge of the world's second largest economy.

But when you look at their resume, they have something in common. They both have served as Xi Jinping secretary and Dean is actually still his chief of staff, but they both lack national level policymaking and governance experience. That's why there has been a lot of concern because they are going to take charge at a time when there is a global recession on the horizon. And this economy is facing heavy headwinds.

In large part due to their boss is a strict zero-COVID policy, but they're unlikely to do anything about it, especially when you look at Li Qiang who gained notoriety for his mishandling of Shanghai's brutal and extremely unpopular two-month lockdown as the party chief there. That's probably one reason as you mentioned, the Hong Kong stock market plummeted during Monday's trading despite the better than expected GDP figure for the third quarter.

But the impact of Xi's power and will is not only reflected in personnel matters, his governing philosophy has been further strengthened in the newly revised a party Institute constitution. A lot of his favorite terms have been added into the party charter including fighting spirit. That's -- that not only applies to the military but in every aspect of the party's daily work, including on the foreign policy front.

That's why it's likely we're going to see more and more increasingly assertive and as some would say aggressive Chinese diplomats around the world really proudly wearing that badge of a warrior training their fire on anyone who dares to question their government. So that obviously does not bode well for anyone who was hoping to see some calming of tensions between China and the West, especially with the United States.

And Rosemary, one thing worth noting here is the current foreign minister Wang Yi who is often seen as the epitome of that doctrine he got elevated into the 24-member Politburo despite being 69 years old.

[02:40:07]

That's past the previously observed the retirement age for our senior officials. But obviously, all of those old norms and rules no longer apply in the era of Xi Jinping. Rosemary?

CHURCH: All right. Steven Jiang joining us live from Beijing. With that report. Many thanks. Hurricane Roslyn roared ashore in west central Mexico on Sunday.

Roslyn had sustained winds of more than 190 kilometers an hour when it hit the shoreline. At least two deaths have been reported in Mexico. Since then, the storm has broken up over the mountains.

And we have new details on author Salman Rushdie's injuries from a stabbing attack in New York State in August. Rushdie's literary agent told a Spanish newspaper, his client has lost sight in one eye, and one of his hands is incapacitated. Andrew Wiley says, the author also has about 15 more wounds in his chest and torso. Rushdie's attacker has pleaded not guilty to attempted murder and assault charges.

For our international viewers World Sport is up next and for those in North America, I'll be back with more news in just a moment.

[02:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (WORLD SPORT)

[03:00:00]