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Russia Returns Body of American Killed While Fighting in Ukraine; Candidates Face Off in Crucial Debates in Final Stretch to Midterms; DOJ Asks Judge to Force Trump White House Lawyers to Testify in Jan. 6 Probe. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired October 26, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Erica, this is the body of Joshua Jones, a 24-year-old from Memphis, Tennessee, who was killed in fighting, fighting with the Ukrainians against Russian forces in Eastern Ukraine back in August. His body had not been recovered. And, really, this was a huge effort on behalf of the Ukrainian presidency, on behalf of two Ukrainian lawmakers who had been trying now since he was killed in August to get his body back to Ukraine and ultimately back to the U.S. so that his family can have closure.

We drove in on no man's land, the sort of area between Russian and Ukrainian territory. The two sides had agreed on a two hour ceasefire, so there was, quite, a narrow window of time that we had to move in and out, during which there was no shelling, which is pretty unusual in that area along that contact line in Zaporizhzhia.

And, essentially, at a certain point, we had to stay back a little bit and an ambulance went with further down the road where the Russians passed the body of Joshua Jones to the Ukrainians. They then brought him down towards us, they took the body out. Those two lawmakers who I mentioned, Ukrainian lawmakers, went aside to identify the body. They had been in discussions with the Russian side for quite some time and they had already exchanged photographs to be sure that was it the body of Joshua Jones. There were certain tattoos and markings that they were able to use to positively identify him.

And he was then put back in the ambulance and driven in to the city of Zaporizhzhia. He will then move on to Kyiv. And then from there, the hope is that, as soon as possible, he will be repatriated to the United States.

CNN spoke already to his father, Jeff Jones, who was tearful in his conversation and said simply, we got him back. Because, understandably, Erica, for the family, this has been a horrifying period and really very challenging to try to come to terms with the death of a child without having the body, without having that closure. And so the hope is from the Ukrainian side that his family will now be able to have that solace, Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And as you point there, the importance obviously of getting his body back. The fact that this has been some time, I don't know if Mr. Jones has able to tell you this and I don't know if you had a chance to ask him, but just what the process has been like for the family as they have worked get to this point.

WARD: I mean, they have been working tirelessly talking to a number of different organizations, from international organizations, the Red Cross, and various Ukrainian organizations to lobby the Russian side to try to come to some kind of consensus and to ultimately hand over the remains of Joshua Jones.

And it's important emphasizes, Erica, that there are other foreign nationals who have been killed fighting with the Ukrainians against Russian forces. There are other bodies of foreign nationals that have not yet been repatriated.

And so I think that the hope is that is this kind of an initial step and that this will lead to further gestures of goodwill, for further releases, because every culture, every country understands the importance psychologically in terms of the grieving process of having a body and being able to bury or cremate or whatever your tradition is, but being able to say goodbye in your very personal familial way.

So, that is the hope. Whether that transpires remains to be seen. But certainly today was a step in the right direction.

It's also important to remember this should be seen in the broader context of a number of prisoner swaps that have been taking place in recent weeks between the Ukrainians and the Russians. Just yesterday, another couple dozen Ukrainians were released as a part of one such swap. And I said, the hope is to make sure that there are more of them, Erica.

HILL: Yes, absolutely. Clarissa Ward live for us this morning with that important update, I appreciate it. Thank you.

Politics certainly getting a lot of attention back here in the U.S. 13 days now left until the midterms. Sometimes I feel like an advent calendar as we lead into the midterms.

Candidates across the country fighting to win over voters during crucial debates. In New York, the first and only between the candidates for governor, Incumbent Democrat Governor Kathy Hochul and Republican Congressman Lee Zeldin, the two tussling over crime, including guns and bail reform.

[10:05:00]

In Pennsylvania, a highly anticipated matchup in the race for Senate between Democrat Lieutenant Governor John Fetterman and Republican Dr. Mehmet Oz, the two Senate candidates sparring over fracking, abortion, inflation. Fetterman's health though capturing a number of the headlines this morning. He is, of course, recovering from a stroke he suffered back in May.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LT. GOV. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): And let's also talk about the elephant in the room. I had a stroke. He has never let me forget that. And I might miss some words during this debate, mush two words together, but it knocked me down and I'm going to keep coming back up.

SENATE CANDIDATE MEHMET OZ (R-PA): I've been answering, but, John, because, obviously, I wasn't clear enough for you to understand this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN Congressional Correspondent Jessica Dean is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, covering this race there. So, John Fetterman's health, Jessica, we knew was going to be a major focus going in. There is still a lot of talk about what voters saw last night. Walk us through the debate.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPPONDENT: Yes, there is certainly a lot of talk. His recovery and his recovery from that stroke, Erica, was on full display last night. We knew he was going to be using that closed captioning system as he worked through the auditory processing issues that they've talked about, but you saw, and you will see in the clips I'm about to play for you, he did speak haltingly. He would, as he said he would, kind of mush words together or kind of lose a word or stumble over a word. So, it was very obvious that he is still very much recovering from this stroke.

But that aside, there were also a lot of issues here that each side is really trying to seize upon now that we are a day after, the morning after this very pivotal debate, which, it's important to keep in mind, why do we care so much about Pennsylvania, because this is an open Senate seat and it represents likely whoever the winner is represents who is going to control the U.S. Senate. So, a lot of attention paid on the commonwealth.

So, one of the issues that the Oz campaign is really focused on was Fetterman's answer on fracking. The moderators asking him about previous comments where he said he did not support fracking, and then he said he did support fracking. We'll let you listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FETTERMAN: I always believe that independence with our energy is critical and we can't be held ransom to somebody like Russia. I've always believed that energy independence is critical and I have always believed that. And I do support fracking.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do want to clarify something. You are saying tonight that you support fracking, that you have always supported fracking, but there is that 2018 interview that you said, quote, I don't support fracking at all. So, how do you square the two?

FETTERMAN: I do support fracking and I don't -- I support tracking and I stand -- and I do support fracking.

(END VIDEO CLIP) DEAN: Again, the Oz campaign really seizing on that moment. For their part, the Fetterman campaign really seizing on the abortion issue and Mehmet Oz's answer to a question of if he would support a bill that had been introduced by Republican Senator Lindsey Graham in the Senate that would put a federal ban on abortions beyond 15 weeks. And he wouldn't directly answer the question. I'll let you listen to his answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OZ: I don't want the federal government involved with that at all. I want women, doctors, local political leaders letting the democracy that's always allowed our nation to thrive, to put the best ideas forward so states can decide for themselves.

I am not going to support federal rules that block the ability of states do what they wish to do. The abortion decision should be left up to states.

I've been very clear on my desire as a physician not to interfere with how states decide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And he had said he wants the decision to be between a woman, a doctor and local political officials. That is where the Oz campaign has zeroed in on. They want to tie him to Republican Gubernatorial Nominee Doug Mastriano, who is a state senator here in Pennsylvania supported a fetal heartbeat bill. They want to paint Oz as very extreme on abortion, an issue that the Fetterman campaign thinks, Erica, could really make the difference within independent and suburban women as they are in the closing days of this campaign.

But, again, just to reiterate that his health was certainly on display. And that's something we're talking a lot about today and others are talking about, but it is ultimately up to the voters to decide if they care or if they're focused on the issues and how that factors in.

HILL: Yes, absolutely. Jessica Dean, I appreciate, as always, thank you.

So, let's take a closer look now with CNN Senior Political Analyst John Avlon. So, picking where Jessica left off, so just earlier this morning, about an hour ago, I spoke with former Democratic Governor Ed Rendell and also former Republican Congressman from Pennsylvania Charlie Dent. And what I was stucked by, I asked the governor out of the gate, do you think that John Fetterman should have debated and he said, no.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. I mean, look, I think a lot of Democrats are feeling that way. And I think you've got to give credit to Fetterman for showing up. Because it is a risky decision, it's a gutsy decision, knowing how debilitating the stroke was against the backdrop of him saying that doctors have assured him that this is something that can be recovered from. [10:10:05]

There are a lot of politicians who don't debate, they are afraid to debate, they don't want to get on stage and be subjected to attacks that they feel are unwarranted, whatever their reasons are. So, for Fetterman to decide to step up and take this risk and display his current disability for all to see was a gutsy decision. I also think it was the right thing for the voters of Pennsylvania, more importantly it's the right thing politically for Democrats, because they deserve -- all voters to deserve to see a side-by-side comparison and argument between the two candidates.

HILL: Do you think it was an accurate side-by-side comparison?

AVLON: In the sense of who Fetterman may ultimately be, no, it is a snapshot in time. It's a snapshot in time of candidate who had a severe stroke. And I think it does raise questions about transparency of the campaign, whether Democrats, having known the severity of the stroke, could have, up until, I believe, August, selected a different candidate, but this is the choice reflecting voters and they will have to factor in individual performance.

The idea that Fetterman along all -- you know, estimates is someone who will recover from this, so this is a snapshot in time, and the policies that the two parties represent. But, obviously, the person matters as well as the party.

HILL: It's interesting. We're stepping back, even just looking at the debates in general, you bring up a great point and something that we're seeing more of in 2022, is this reluctance by many candidates to participate in a debate, to really talk about substantive issues. When you have in so many cases candidates that are so far apart, do debates really get at the issues anymore?

AVLON: Look, they can, they should. It is partly incumbent upon the moderator, but it's also incumbent upon us insisting on a fact-based debate. And part of the problem in our current surreal polarization is that you've got candidates who cannot agree on basic facts. And I want to engage in bothsiderism on this because --

HILL: But facts are facts. There are no both sides to facts.

AVLON: Facts are facts. There are no both sides on facts. So, if you have candidates insisting on -- that lie is a the truth, that makes a substantive debate much more difficult. But you got to call out those lies for what they are. And, frankly, candidates who are competing with someone who is lying all the time should be able to stand on stage and say, that is a lie. Why are you lying to your constituents? You need to be able to go toe-to-toe. But most of all, we need to insist on fact-based debates, and that's a problem in our politics right now.

HILL: Maybe we should just insist on facts, period.

AVLON: Let's do that.

HILL: Kind of like we do her.

AVLON: I like that.

HILL: I appreciate it, my friend. Thank you.

In New York, crime really taking center stage for the first and only gubernatorial debate, Incumbent Governor Kathy Hochul squaring off with Republican Congressman Lee Zeldin.

CNN National Correspondent Athena Jones has more on this toe-to-toe last night. Boy, definitely some heated moments, a little bit of fireworks, crime, guns, bail reform, really getting a lot of attention, Athena.

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Erica. You're right. This is a debate that Congressman Zeldin was really angling for. He was trying to push for multiple debates and they ended up with this one scheduled debate taking place just a few days before early voting in-person is to begin on Saturday.

And one of the big topics, as you mentioned, was crime. This is something that we saw Zeldin attack Governor Hochul on, coming right out of the gate. He was very aggressive on this. Hochul tried to push back, talking about her record and about guns. Listen to how she responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D-NY): You can either work on keeping people scared or you can focus on keeping them safe. I have worked hard to have real policies that are making a difference.

But there is no crime fighting plan if it doesn't include guns, illegal guns. And you refuse to talk about how we can do so much more. You didn't even show up for votes in Washington when a bipartisan group of enlightened legislatures voted for an assault weapon ban.

REP. LEE ZELDIN (R-NY): Unfortunately, Kathy Hochul believes that the only crimes that are being committed are these crimes with guns. And you people who are afraid of being pushed in front of oncoming subway cars. They're being stabbed, beaten to death on a street with hammers.

Right now, there should be a special session. The state legislature should come back and they should overhaul cashless bail and these other pro-criminal laws with zero tolerance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: And Zeldin has a point there. This is about perception, just as much as it is about reality. Crime in the transits system is up around 40 percent. Now, shootings and homicides are down, but there are a lot of folks who are concerned about just moving around town. And that's why he was really hitting on that. Hochul pushing back, saying she helped get 8,000 illegal guns off the street, helped pass legislation raising the age to purchase a semiautomatic weapon to 21, so trying to push back with her record. Bottom line here, it's unclear if either side was able to score enough political points to change the dynamics of this surprisingly close race.

HILL: Yes, it really is. Talk about tightening in the last several days. Athena, I appreciate it, thank you.

First on CNN, a new request from the Justice Department investigating the January 6 attack on the Capitol, the DOJ now asking a federal judge to force the two top lawyers from the Trump White House Counsel's Office to testify about their conversations with the former president. Now, that push for testimony from Pat Cipollone and Patrick Philbin is part of a set of secret court proceedings.

[10:15:03]

CNN's Senior Crime and Justice Reporter Katelyn Polantz joining us now with more on these new developments. So, what could this change? What are the chances that they could, in fact, be compelled?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Erica, there are many chances that they could be compelled here, but we're going to just have to see what happens in court, what happens in this grand jury proceeding if we can get insight into it. It is secret right now.

But what we know is that the Justice Department is trying to get answers to the very thing that Pat Cipollone, the White House counsel, and his deputy, Patrick Philbin, are not willing to share, which is direct conversations that they had with Donald Trump around January 6th leading up to that, and anything that they would have said giving him advice, that is the thing that they had been declining to answer before the grand jury previously and we know now that there is a court proceeding where the Justice Department is trying to force them back into the grand jury to give them answers.

Now, when we step back, history is not really on Donald Trump's side here, neither is legal precedent. Trump is trying to keep the firewall around the inner most circles of his White House. And whatever happens in this case, ultimately, with these two men, that will have major implications for this criminal investigation before the grand jury and for many other witnesses that we know the Justice Department is already pursuing information from. Erica?

HILL: Yes. That ripple effect could really be something. Katelyn, I really appreciate the reporting, as always, thank you.

Still ahead this morning, Vladimir Putin sending a new message to the west as Russian soldiers train for a potential nuclear strike. What does it mean for the future of Russia's war on Ukraine?

Plus, in less than 30 minutes, President Biden expected to deliver remarks on new actions to provide families with more breathing room. What does that mean? We'll bring it to you live.

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HILL: We are taking a closer look at new home sales, a lot of attention being played on new home sales and what the most recent findings could tell us, most recent reporting, newly constructed homes dropping 10.9 percent from September to August. Sales were also down here for homes more than 17 percent when you look at sales a year ago. Rising mortgage rates, of course, pushing some buyers away from the housing market.

CNN Business Correspondent Rahel Solomon joins me now. So, I guess not surprising in some ways that year-over-year we're seeing it did, but almost 11 percent in the span of one month. That seems like a big drop.

RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It does say a lot, right? And I think for a few of the reasons you already pointed out, which is that mortgage rates are now at about 7 percent on average. Some, by the way, are higher than that. So, you have higher mortgage rates. So, the cost of borrowing continues to go up. Oh, but, by the way, the cost of homes continues to go up, right? And that's part of the supply issue that we have with just the lack of homes for sale.

So, the median price of a new home came in at $470,600 for the month of September, compare that to $436,800 in August, right? So, you're still seeing the price of a home go up.

HILL: That is incredibly that that median home price is so much higher in that short period of time. And that median price is still out of reach for so many people.

SOLOMON: It absolutely is especially with the rates going up. And it just really says a lot about the inventory problem, which is why if you want to find a silver lining, is that this is why some experts in the space say that they don't expect home prices to plummet even if, in fact, we do start to see a recession, right, even if we do experience a significant downturn just because there aren't a lot of homes for sale.

But one thing that I thought was also interesting that what we learned over the last 24 hours is that we know interest rates are very sensitive and the mortgage market is very sensitive to higher interest rates, but we're starting to see the spillover into other industries.

So, Alphabet, for example, they reported earnings yesterday, and what they said is that they are starting to see digital ad spend slow because they are starting to see less digital ad spend for areas like mortgages and loans. So, we talk a lot about housing, but now we're starting to see the spillover into other industries like Alphabet, where they're seeing slower digital ad spend.

HILL: Yes, that is interesting, especially as we start to see the trickle down, and you're connecting all of that.

Rahel, I appreciate it, as always, thank you. President Biden set to speak soon about giving Americans more, quote, breathing room as the nation deals with not just high housing prices, high mortgage rates but high inflation, as you know. Sources telling us he plans do that by tackling bank junk fees.

CNN White House Correspondent Arlette Saenz is joining us live to explain. So, what more can we expect to hear from the president? What will these words be in terms of action?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erica, in just a few moments, we will be hearing from President Biden and he is expected to discuss these so-called junk fees that affect so many American consumers. The White House has billed this event as one to talk about actions that would, quote, provide some breathing room to Americans at a time when the economy and inflation remain top concerns for American voters heading into the election just under two weeks away.

Now, earlier today, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau announced a new guidance relating to those bank overdraft and also depositor fees, saying that elements of that likely violate the Consumer Financial Protection Act.

And, really, the president has made tackling hidden fees a key focus of his White House competition council. That is something that they held a meeting just last month and it included some new travel rule announcements to try to address hidden fees when it comes to travel bookings.

But, really, if you just take a step back, what this is really about for the White House is trying to show Americans that they are trying to act as economic concerns and inflation concerns remain top of mind heading into this election.

President Biden has really been ramping up his economic messaging specifically heading into the election, trying to show that Democrats are prepared to the protect things, like social security and Medicare benefits and also pointing to some of the economic progress they have made when it comes to jobs and recent drop this is gas prices.

[10:25:12]

The president has really been trying to present the contrast with the Republican's economic messaging as they know and are keenly aware that the voters are watching every change in this economy and inflation as they are making up their minds heading into this election.

HILL: Yes, that's for sure. We know economy and inflation are top of mind and number in most of that polling that we see. Arlette, I appreciate it. Thank you.

Vice President Harris is set to announce a tangible result from the infrastructure law today. School districts, we're learning, in all 50 states are getting awards to purchase new school buses, most of them electric. IN all of the EPA's clean school bus program will dole out nearly a billion dollars. That accounts to about 2,500 buses 12 states. The electric buses will be the first ever on the ground. The districts are now set to work with manufacturers to get their orders in. They have to get those orders in by April.

New this morning, the Russian president overseeing military drills as his government once again raises the prospect of a nuclear strike. Is this more saber-rattling? How concerned should you be? We're live in Kyiv, next.

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