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Ukraine: "Heaviest Of Battles" Ahead Of Kherson; U.S. Military To Ukraine Tops $18 Billion; CNN Investigates The Death Of Iranian Nika Shahkarami Teenager. Jair Bolsonaro And Lula da Silva Try To Win Voters Living In Poverty; Rishi Sunak Faces Grilling During First Prime Minister's Questions; Russia Accuses Ukraine Of Considering Use Of "Dirty Bomb". Aired 12-1a ET

Aired October 27, 2022 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Ahead here on CNN NEWSROOM, the looming battle for the Russian occupied city of Kherson with Ukrainian forces closing in, I'll-equipped, poorly trained, demoralized Russian troops are digging in.

40 days, protests across Iran escalate with an end to the official mourning period for Mahsa Amini, the young woman whose death has sparked antigovernment uprising across Iran.

Failure on the way to failure, not only are we not achieving promise cuts in carbon pollution, but even if we do, it will still be entirely inadequate to avoid a climate disaster.

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center, this is CNN NEWSROOM with John Vause.

VAUSE: To major headlines from Ukraine at this hour reports Russian airstrikes have targeted the Kyiv region, so far, no word on casualties.

There is also the looming battle for the Russian occupied city Kherson. The outcome could ultimately decide the direction of the war, with Ukrainian forces reported to be within 10 miles to the outskirts of Kherson, Russian soldiers believed to be in a defensive posture with word Moscow has increased the number of troops there by sending in new recruits, which Kyiv's military intelligence has described as cannon fodder.

Russian installed administrators are leaving the city along with more than 70,000 civilians. Kherson was the first Ukrainian city to fall and remains the largest city still under Russian control.

For the east, the Ukrainian town of Bakhmut has been under intense and sustained Russian artillery fire for weeks. Tactics President Zelenskyy described as crazy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The situation on the front line has no significant changes. The fiercest battles are in Donetsk region near Bakhmut and Avdiivka, the craziness of the Russian command is now most visible there. Day after day for months, they send people there to their death, concentrate the maximum power of artillery strikes there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: NATO Secretary General says Russia is launching more indiscriminate attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure because forces are failing on the battlefield.

Kyiv's troops are becoming stronger and are better equipped every week. CNN's Fred Pleitgen reports now from the frontlines in Kherson.

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FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Ukrainian forces trying to hit the Russians on all fronts.

This motor unit firing in the north of the country, while in the south Kyiv is continuing a counter offensive trying to capture the Russian occupied city of Kherson. We met up with an artillery unit on the battlefield.

The soldiers tell us there's firing going on here pretty much every day several times a day. The front line is not very far from where we are at all. It's a couple of kilometers in that direction. And right now, there's not very much movement on that front line, but still, the situation is very dangerous.

Ukraine's defense minister says Kyiv's counter offensive here is complicated by wet weather in the area. But the commander says he believes in the end they will oust the Russians.

BANDERAS, ARTILLERY COMMANDER: I know one thing for sure, we will never step back from here. We have no other choice, only forward. Ukraine has to get back all its territory and borders.

PLEITGEN: While Russia continues to mobilize hundreds of thousands for the war here, the Ukrainian say they found the Wagner private military company, founded by Putin ally Yevgeny Prigozhin, is sending Russian prisoners with diseases to the front line. The chief of Ukraine's military intelligence told CNN's Nic Robertson.

KYRYLO BUDANOV, HEAD OF UKRAINE'S DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY (through translator): They put on them certain wristbands in blue, white or red color. Every color signifies tuberculosis, hepatitis or HIV. It's happening on a mass scale, most of them who are taken prisoners or their dead bodies, which were found in the battlefield had those wristbands.

PLEITGEN: CNN can't independently verify those claims. As Russian forces continue to lose ground in Ukraine, the Kremlin conducting massive annual nuclear drills involving submarine launched ballistic missiles and others launched from Russia's fleet of strategic bombers.

While the Russians notified the U.S. about the drills well in advance, Russian President Vladimir Putin with a clear warning to Washington.

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PRES. VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIA (through translator): What they are trying to achieve we see on the example of Ukraine, which has become an instrument of American foreign policy. The country has practically lost sovereignty and is directly controlled from the United States.

PLEITGEN: But the Ukrainians on the front line say they are fighting for their own freedom, not for anybody else.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Mykolaiv, Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: With this note, CNN has reached out to the Wagner Group for comment, so far nothing.

Now, to CNN military analyst and former Commanding General U.S. Army Europe and Seventh Army, Mark Hertling. General, thanks for being with us.

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST (on camera): Always great to be with you, John. Thanks for having me on.

VAUSE: It's always a pleasure sir, thank you.

Now, the Russian occupied city of Kherson looks set to be the next major battle here in Ukraine. There are reports the Russians have set up some defensive positions, Ukrainian intelligence believes Russian troops have not actually withdrawn but actually dealing in ready to defend.

There is an old combat rule of three attackers for every one defender. Does that equation still apply in this situation? What are you expecting to see when this Ukrainian offensive begins?

HERTLING: Yes, I would say that three to one mathematics, which Germany gave us over 100 years ago does not apply in this situation. Because what you're talking about in three to one is equal forces. You don't have equal forces in this fight right now, John, the Ukrainians have stepped up to the plate, they are fighting way above their weight class. And what we've seen on the Russian side is some real dysfunction.

As they're digging in the defense around Kherson, what you're talking about is the inability to resupply the Russian forces from the east, they're on the western side of a river. It's very difficult for them to get out. The Ukrainian said the other day, they have blown all the bridges, and they are attacking the ferries that are carrying supplies and equipment both to the east and the west of the Russians.

So, it's going to be very difficult for the Russians to defend without any food, water, ammunition, parts resupply, so I don't think we can apply that three to one advantage.

VAUSE: Will it be a quick battle? Will it take -- will it drag on?

HERTLING: Well, you know, it's interesting because the Ukrainians have been setting the conditions for this battle over a very big territory for the last several weeks, they have achieved a little bit of momentum, but they haven't quite bagged the Russian forces I thought they would have a while ago. And that's because they're fighting on multiple fronts.

So, they're shuttling some forces inside of interior lines back and forth from the Northeast, in Kharkiv down to Kherson and in some other places, it may take them a little while.

And plus, they already have some weather setting in on him. The rain and the mud conditions are already starting to affect combat, that's going to slow your forces down too.

But Ukrainians have kept up their will, the Russians have not.

VAUSE: The Ukrainians would not be in this position of retaking territory without military assistance from NATO and the United States. And that stands now at more than $18.3 billion from this White House alone. And on that money from the U.S., here's President Joe Biden.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to continue to support Ukraine together with our allies and partners around the world, as it defends itself against Russia's brutal aggression. We got to keep NATO strong and united as we meet the threats of the day and threats of tomorrow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Where would Ukraine be without this sort of endless supply of weapons, especially from the United States and NATO?

HERTLING: Yes, they would not be in good shape. What you're talking about is a different phase of the conflict. In the phase one, when Russians were attacking on nine different fronts, the technologically advanced javelins and stingers were exceedingly beneficial to stop the Russian tank onslaught.

In this latter phase as you're talking about the contributions of HIMARS and also M777 artillery pieces, firing very precision rounds of artillery, which the Russians have not done, it has attacked -- the Ukrainians have been able to attack command post, supply depots, long convoys. So, it has been very effective in treating the enemy.

And the second part of the campaign was a battle of attrition and a battle of the logistics, no doubt about it.

The third part of the campaign now is really an air defense campaign against rockets and missiles. Because truthfully, John, that's all Russia has left. VAUSE: In recent days, both Republicans and some Democrats have suggested there will be some limits or at least conditions placed on U.S. assistance to Ukraine, the military assistance, but here are the numbers. The U.S. Defense Department budget this year, just over $715 billion, almost $2 billion a day.

So, the U.S. military assistance from the current administration, just over $18 billion. The war is now today 245, which is just shy of $750,000 a day in military assistance.

So, you know, the return on investment seems pretty good, for $750,000 a day to defend Europe, save democracy, degrade the military capability of Russia for decades, expose Putin as a paper tiger, not one American life has been lost. It's a pretty good bang for your buck, isn't it?

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HERTLING: Yes, it's a pretty good deal, I would say. But when you're talking about the entire U.S. Defense budget, you're also talking about a military that is really roaming the globe, it isn't just centered in one area.

So, you know, the U.S. military aid to different countries comes out of both the Department of Defense and the State Department. And it has been significant for Ukraine, no doubt about it.

But it certainly is affecting one of our biggest competitors, and that's Russia, one of our biggest foes over the last couple of months.

Truthfully, though, you know, it's going to be tough to maintain that kind of budgeting. Because truthfully, what Ukraine wants is a completely transformed army. They want a completely transformed military. And to do that in a Western military power with technologically advanced equipment from the start, from the get go, is very challenging, and it's very costly, but as you just said, it is extremely effective.

VAUSE: Yes, General, as always, thank you so much. Sir, good to see.

HERTLING: Pleasure, John, thank you.

VAUSE: ISIS has claimed responsibility for an attack that killed at least 15 people and injured 40 others at a shrine in southern Iran. That's according to the SITE Intelligence Group, which tracks jihadist organizations.

State media in Iran reports two of the suspected attackers have been arrested by security forces. The search continues for a third.

40 days have now passed since 22-year-old Mahsa Amini he died while being held by the so-called morality police. Thousands gathered at her grave in tight security.

And across Iran, there were angry clashes between protesters and security forces. And in the capital Tehran, tear gas and pellet guns were used to

disperse demonstrators.

In Iran's Kurdistan province where Amini was from, there's a new total blackout of the internet.

In an exclusive investigation, CNN has looked at the final hours of Iranian teenager Nika Shahkarami, who was among the many protesters on the streets days after Amini's death.

After analyzing more than 50 videos obtained by CNN and speaking to six eyewitnesses, there's evidence that she was chased, then detained by police just a few hours before she went missing.

CNN's Katie Polglase has our report.

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KATIE POLGLASE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE PRODUCER (voice over): Nika Shahkarami, the 16-year-old has become one of the most known faces in Iran.

On September 20th, Nika was a high profile figure at the protests and a known personality on social media. She stood on bins chanting for the crowds. Officials say that within 24 hours she would be dead.

Nika joined a growing list of young women who have lost their lives in recent weeks, as protests have swept Iran and authorities have waged a violent crackdown in response.

The Iranian government has made a series of shifting claims, first saying that her death had "no connection to the protests", but that she was thrown from a roof. And then on Wednesday, a new claim from the judiciary that it was suicide.

On the basis of our investigation using over 50 videos from that night and speaking to those with her that evening, CNN can reveal that some of Nika's final hours was spent at the protests, including evidence that suggests she was chased and detained by security just a few hours before the state says she died.

The first videos we found of Nika on the 20th are here at 7:00 p.m. As protest heats up, Nika can be seen right at the front, throwing rocks at a formation of uniformed officers, easily recognized she was brave, not even frightened, eyewitnesses said.

At this stage in the evening, Nika is here by Laleh Park. Then as more officers arrive, witnesses say Nika starts to move away from them.

First along Keshavarz Boulevard, and then down to Valiasr street, where she's seen making a phone call just before 8:00 p.m.

As it gets dark, the police crackdown intensifies, moving into Nika's new location. Evidence of injuries start emerging and protesters are seen being detained apparently by plainclothes officers.

One person told CNN they saw security forces hitting women and putting them in police vans.

In the midst of this heightened violence, CNN found a video of Nika still at the center of the protest. It's 8:37 p.m. and the last known video of her.

Don't move, don't move, she shouts as she crouches between cars to hide from authorities. The person filming from the car told CNN that shortly afterwards, Nika was taken by several large bodied security forces and bundled into a van.

By this point in the evening, police were everywhere. Videos we've geo located to the scene show police to the south and also to the north of Nika. It means when she was crouching in traffic, she was completely surrounded.

By the next morning, she would be dead according to this death certificate, first obtained by BBC Persian and verified by CNN, which shows she died from multiple injuries caused by being hit with a hard object and is dated September 21st.

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But Nika's family would not learn of her death for another 10 days. Meanwhile, both Nika's mother and aunt have said in interviews that credible sources told them that for days during that window, Nika was in state custody.

The Iranian authorities released this CCTV footage, claiming Nika died after being thrown from this building, later the same night in an incident they say it was unconnected to the protests.

They made no claim about who allegedly threw her and CNN cannot verify the person is Nika, nor the day it was filmed.

Nika's mother has publicly disputed this footage, saying it's not her daughter. And it's hard to square this calm walk with the evidence we have of Nika being chased by police and detained just a few hours earlier.

Iranian officials have not responded to CNN's inquiry as to whether she was ever in custody in the hours leading up to her death.

What is certain though is that Nika was a prominent activist at the center of a police crackdown on the protests that night.

Katie Polglase, CNN, London.

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VAUSE: Round two of Brazil's presidential election this weekend and in a close race, both candidates are hungry for votes. Many voters are just plain hungry. Details ahead.

And grilling time in Britain's Parliament, are the menu fresh meat? A brand new prime minister, details from London in a moment.

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VAUSE: Welcome back. Brazil's presidential runoff now just three days away, still a tight and polarizing race between former leftist President Lula da Silva, far- right incumbent Jair Bolsonaro.

Most polls show Lula with a slight lead. (INAUDIBLE) comes after neither candidate received more than 50 percent in the first round of voting earlier this month.

Both major candidates are trying to win over millions of Brazilians living in poverty.

CNN's Paula Newton explains how the poor and destitute could become kingmakers.

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PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Nova Vittoria Speranza (PH) this pandemic era village on the outskirts of Sao Paulo is fertile ground for votes, but not food. The irony not lost on anyone here.

Food is the issue this mother of four will be voting on. Evanilda's (PH) partner works 16 hours a day. And still she tells us there isn't much in her refrigerator.

I just don't want my kids to go hungry, she says. She fears they may if President Jair Bolsonaro is reelected even though he raised welfare payments ahead of the election.

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In my view, she says, Bolsonaro didn't fulfill his promises and has only given us this subsidy to see if he can get more votes.

People here know better than to expect too much from either candidate. But from former President Lula da Silva, they expect something.

I intend to vote for Lula, she tells us, because Bolsonaro has been there for four years and in four years, he's not been able to do much.

From Brazil's impoverished suburbs to the streets and its commercial capital, inflation is biting here. Access to food has become a central, election issue and a convenient campaign promise as tens of millions continue to live in poverty.

A Bolsonaro rally supporters ridicule Lula, calling him a thief who belongs in jail, hardly a savior of the poor.

Evanilda sees Lula's past corruption scandals differently.

Every single one that is in there steals something, she says, even just a little. They are talking about Lula and saying he's sold maybe he did. But at least he takes care of us, takes care of the poor.

Bolsonaro has spent billions on welfare subsidies in the lead up to this election, trying to prove he can save Brazilians from hunger. Robson Mendonca has been feeding the hungry for decades. He says

hundreds more have been lining up at his soup kitchen in recent months. And he's troubled that the desperate plight of so many is being exploited for votes.

ROBSON MENDONCA, COMMUNITY LEADER, SAO PAULO (through translator): Bolsonaro was even capable of lying on national radio saying there is no one hunger in Brazil. They don't see anyone asking for bread at the bakery. He doesn't know reality. There are millions asking for a plate of food because they can't feed themselves.

NEWTON: To win, both presidential candidates need to count on votes from those who can't count on their next meal. A stark snapshot of what's at stake for Brazil's hungry.

Paula Newton, CNN, Sao Paulo, Brazil.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Britain's newly appointed prime minister has warned of difficult decisions ahead with the country facing a dire economic crisis. During his first Prime Minister's Questions, Rishi Sunak says the government's budget will be delayed for two more weeks and that led to a Labour opposition grilling during question time.

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RISHI SUNAK, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Mr. Speaker, I have been honest, we will have to take difficult decisions to restore economic stability and confidence.

And my honorable friend the chancellor will set that out in a statement in just a few weeks. But what I can say as we did during COVID, we will always protect the most vulnerable, we will do this in a fair way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: During the parliamentary appearance, there are also some tough questions for Sunak over his cabinet choices.

CNN's Bianca Nobilo has details now from London.

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BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Rishi Sunak delivered for the conservative party at his first Prime Minister's Questions, his first since becoming leader of the Conservative Party and Britain's Prime Minister on Tuesday.

He had 24 hours to prepare, to face the House of Commons and the conservative benches behind him are full of cheers and support for the new prime minister as energetic and boisterous as I've seen them in a number of years.

Here's Donna, the leader of the Labour Party and Ian Blackford, the leader of the Scottish National Party both sincerely celebrated the fact that Britain's new prime minister is of Asian heritage.

Starmer didn't waste too much time on celebration and pleasantries though before he started asking hard questions to begin with revolving around Sunak's reappointment of Suella Braverman as Home Secretary.

So far, his most controversial appointment since becoming prime minister. That's because Braverman was fired as home secretary six days before her reappointment, she was sacked by Liz Truss for a security breach.

So, there have been questions raised and eyebrows by the Labour Party and other opposition parties as to whether or not there was some kind of deal made behind the scenes between Sunak and Braverman.

But in terms of giving his party more confidence and more enthusiasm for the prime minister and the direction of the party, Sunak seems to have delivered. It was interesting to see him go up against Kier Starmer, as both politicians have some similarities in terms of their communication style, known for being serious, having a good grasp of the brief and detail.

Watching them go toe to toe, it seems that Sunak may be able to get his wish, which he said at the beginning of this Prime Minister's Questions which was to have serious grown up exchanges with the leader of the opposition.

Bianca Nobilo, CNN, London

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Still to come, failing to meet a failing grade. The latest climate report from the U.N. says carbon pollution continues to rise despite global commitments for reductions, so much for 1.5 degrees Celsius.

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VAUSE: Welcome back, everyone. I'm John Vause, you're watching CNN NEWSROOM.

The top U.S. diplomat says Russian President Vladimir Putin has been warned about the consequences of using a nuclear weapon against Ukraine.

Antony Blinken said the message has been communicated directly and clearly to Putin. Blinken dismissed Russia's latest claim that Ukraine is preparing to use the so called dirty bomb as yet another fabrication.

That dirty bomb claim was reiterated by President Putin on Wednesday, and by the Russian ambassador to the U.K., who spoke with CNN's Christiane Amanpour. During that interview, he insisted Russia would not use nukes.

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CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Why would a country want to create a dirty bomb radioactive disaster in their own country? Why would a country, you know, do what you accuse it of doing back in March, a chemical or biological weapon. Why would it do that?

ANDREI KELIN, RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE UK: I understand the question. We have a feeling that at this moment, authorities in Kyiv need to attract attention by something. Because, actually, the offensive attack in -- on different fronts, a counterattack, so they're calling it, it has stopped. They are now losing coal resources. The frontline has stabilized in all three places. I mean, in Kherson, in the east, and in Zaporhrhizia. There is no movement. And this country has no more resources.

At the moment, it needs something, like, probably, the dam in Kakhovka which is -- it's a difficult place. Because if it will be damaged then we shall have a flood over there, or perhaps something else.

So, our people, they are serious people. If intelligence is saying that something is in preparation, then they are right about this. So, the issue is to verify. If it is not over there, so we will simply be happy.

AMANPOUR: You know that the west and Ukraine believe that this is a Russian false flag. And the west is very concerned that you are making these allegations as a cover for some kind of escalation on your side. And you say that the Ukrainian battlefield is now stabilized, in your words, and not moving.

But the Russians also face a lot of push backs. And the west says the Russian military operation is not going as well. Is Russia trying to escalate this war?

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KELIN: First of all, in his conversation, I mean, the minister of defense, Shoigu, he assured every minister once again that we are not going to use nuclear weapon.

And there was no single statement, neither by the president or responsible guys -- I don't know if the journalists, of course, have noticed this -- talks on the television. So Russia is not going to use nukes, so it is out of the question.

Second, it's that for about a month and a half already, Ukraine offensive has stopped. Nothing is happening.

AMANPOUR: OK. You said that. I don't want to have you repeat herself, but this is really important, what you just told me. That Russia will not use nuclear weapons. Now, tomorrow, in a month, in a year, no matter what happens.

KELIN: I cannot say about the next generation.

AMANPOUR: In a conventional scenario, are you saying that your country has pledged --

KELIN: Yes, yes.

AMANPOUR: -- your defense minister --

KELIN: Yes.

AMANPOUR: -- not to use nuclear weapons?

KELIN: Yes. Yes, this is what I am saying, and this is what has been said by the defense minister, by our president. And all of that's true.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: This, week the U.S. State Department said that, despite the growing concerns, it has seen no indication Moscow is actually preparing to use nuclear weapons.

Well, the bottom line from the U.N. on our efforts to reduce carbon pollution is depressingly dismal. Not only has carbon pollution, which drives up the planet's temperature, reached record levels, it's climbing at an alarming pace.

And then there is this. Not only are not we not making commitments made by governments to reduce emissions, even if we did, global temperature would still rise more than two degrees Celsius by the end of the century. That's well above the stated target of one and a half degrees Celsius.

To reach that, the U.N. says emissions would have to cut 45 percent within eight years. The head of the U.N.'s weather agency says it's ultimately up to developed nations to avert a global catastrophe.

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PETTERI TAALAS, WMO SECRETARY-GENERAL: In Glasgow, the G-7 countries and European Union made commitments, and we have commitments from several countries which didn't do. So -- so before.

And the big challenge lies within these G-20 countries. It's important to get the whole G-20 family on board, because that -- that will be responsible for 80 percent of the global -- global emissions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: With us now from Los Angeles is Shyla Raghav, the leading expert on climate change mitigation and adaption, cofounder of the organization CO2.

Thank you for being with us.

SHYLA RAGHAV, COFOUNDER, CO2: Thank you for having me.

VAUSE: So in response to this report, the U.N. secretary-general tweeted this: "We're headed for disaster. We need urgent, large-scale and systemic climate action now."

OK, here's the rub. Now, even if we can achieve the goals set by government, those goals which aren't -- if they were not met, would not reduce carbon pollution enough to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius. Isn't it time to rethink the whole approach? We're failing to reach inadequate benchmarks. Even if we're successful, we fail. This is lunacy.

RAGHAV: Yes. I absolutely take your point. I think that oftentimes, it seems like these discussions that are so top down, and they're not relatable to people day to day.

There is this disconnect between global discussions and the real call to action and what people are actually seeing in their communities.

I think the main point is that we're -- what's really clear is that individual agency is very important and this is a systemic issue that requires a systemic solution across business, across communities, across the private sector, as well.

VAUSE: You're talking about -- talking down expectations. A while back, we gave up any hope of stopping the planet from heating, period. So we set a limit. We said 1.5 degrees Celsius. Not so great but livable

So here's what the head of the U.N.'s environment program told CNN. "If we want to hit 1.5, we need to reduce our emissions by 45 percent by 2030. Is that doable? I don't want to say it's impossible, but it will take commitment, leadership, bravery and real courage by leaders to make it happen.

So in other words, it's impossible. You know, right now, according to the U.N., the current climate plan shows a 10.6 percent increase instead by 2030. So we're rising. We're not falling.

So what happens? What, we fall back. We agree we can deal with a planet which is 2 degrees warmer? Then 2.5 degrees warmer? What, we just keep falling back?

RAGHAV: Well, I disagree with -- with some of that sentiment, just simply because it still is biophysically possible for us to meet the 1.5-degree target. It really isn't too late, and I think that's really the intent of this report. It's to sound an alarm but also to signal that there still is time for us to get back on track.

And that could be achieved through countries taking their commitment to climate change and to the Paris agreement seriously. And that could mean businesses and the private sector also stepping up to give governments the confidence that they can and they should meet those commitments and those targets.

So I think that it's not a matter of having false hope, I think it's a matter of us having courage and recognizing that it's our collective responsibility to future generations, to our own well-being and our own livelihoods, to act quickly and decisively about -- on climate change. VAUSE: I respect everything that -- that climate activists do, what

people at the U.N. do, what scientists do. But I think by saying there is still time, it gives everyone a get-out-of-jail-free card to do whatever they want and not worry about tomorrow and not worry what's happening to the planet, because we still have time. I think it's a really bad message.

RAGHAV: Yes, I completely understand your point in saying that, by kind of giving and providing that runway, might give license to continue an unsustainable lifestyle or to sustain industries or technologies that really aren't serving us.

However, I think that we -- there needs to be a transition plan. Right? We're not going to be able to switch off all of our lights tomorrow.

So I think we need to be looking at this as a transition and one that needs to be inclusive and can't leave any communities behind.

VAUSE: Look, absolutely. It's not easy, given that. And there's the impact now for the increased levels of methane gas, which comes from landfill, coal mining, wastewater treatment and, of course, livestock. Listen to this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAALAS: The second most important to greenhouse gases is methane, which is responsible for about 18 percent of the -- of the warming, and -- and we have seen, recording in the growth of methane concentration last year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: This is something where there's almost no discussion about. The only major to tackle methane gas levels, I think, has been in New Zealand recently, where the government proposed a tax on, you know, cow flatulence. And that's been opposed by the farmers' lobby there.

It seems, you know, this is never really debated or talked about.

RAGHAV: Yes. Well, in the climate space, methane is quite a prominent issue. I think there's wide recognition that methane is much more potent as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, and there's a number of solutions, whether it's related to the cultivation of race or even shifting to plant-based diets that are really important for addressing fugitive methane emissions. As well as a number of incentives, financial incentives and carbon credits that are helping -- are aiming to curb fugitive methane emissions.

VAUSE: Shyla, thank you so much for being with us. Really appreciate your time and your efforts and your work. Thank you.

RAGHAV: Thank you very much.

VAUSE: Let's take a break. When we come back, U.S. President Joe Biden facing criticism that he's no different than his predecessor, Donald Trump, when it comes to a policy that's shutting the door on most Venezuelan migrants trying to reach the United States. That's ahead.

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VAUSE: Critics of a new White House policy on immigration that's mostly affecting migrants from Venezuela say it's cruel, inhumane, and painful. And while illegal crossings of the U.S.-Mexico border by Venezuelans have started to decline after skyrocketing in recent months, CNN's Rosa Flores reports President Joe Biden now taking flak from some immigration advocates.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

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ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's not often that President Joe Biden is likened to his predecessor, yet Biden's latest actions on the border has immigration advocates like Fernando Garcia saying, he's just like Trump.

FERNANDO GARCIA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, BORDER NETWORK FOR HUMAN RIGHTS: Title 42 is an anti-immigrant. It was a tool used by Trump administration to expel immigrants out of the country. It was an anti- immigrant policy. This president is implementing it; it is an anti- immigrant policy.

FLORES: You call it racist?

GARCIA: It is a racist and xenophobic policy, without any value.

FLORES (voice-over): The Biden administration is using the Trump-era public health rule, known as Title 42 to return Venezuelans to Mexico. Title 42 allows for the swift expulsion of migrants who have entered the country illegally.

GARCIA: We still have, like, the same kind of policies that we had with the Trump administration. I mean, that is -- that is very disappointing.

FLORES (voice-over): Thousands of Venezuelans have been expelled to Mexico so far, including this mom, who says many of them are seniors and children. And this girl and others, pleading with President Biden for entry into the country.

FLORES: Is the honeymoon period for the Biden administration over?

GARCIA: From immigration and for immigrants, that was over in 2021.

FLORES (voice-over): The policy also provides a legal pathway for up to 24,000 Venezuelans with U.S.-based sponsors. But 24,000 slots is not nearly enough, say critics.

Border authorities encountered more than 33,000 Venezuelans in September alone.

In El Paso, the Biden administration caught in a separate firestorm, after the mayor of the city, a Democrat, said this during a public meeting about declaring a state of emergency over the border crisis.

MAYOR OSCAR LEESER (D), EL PASO, TEXAS: The White House has asked at this point for us not to do that.

FLORES (voice-over): The mayor later flat-out denied White House involvement.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did the White House ask you not to declare a state of emergency?

LEESER: Absolutely not.

FLORES (voice-over): The White House denied it, too, saying, "We did not make any such request."

All this as El Paso went from being at the center of the U.S. immigration crisis, with migrants sleeping on the street and at the airport, prompting the city to bus some of them to New York and opening this migrant center last month; to shutting down that very same center last week, when the migrant flow at the shelter hit zero, says El Paso's deputy city manager.

While Garcia says Biden's border policies are akin to Trump's, he's thankful for one thing.

GARCIA: We don't have that vitriol, that hateful narrative that we did have during the Trump administration.

FLORES: Coming from the White House?

GARCIA: From the White House.

FLORES (voice-over): A low bar for the highest office in the land.

FLORES: El Paso is not alone in this. U.S. cities across the southern border are seeing a sudden decrease in the number of Venezuelan migrants.

And at the same time, Mexican cities are seeing a sudden spike, all due to a policy that was agreed upon by the federal governments of the U.S. and Mexico.

And caught in the middle, not just migrants but also city officials on both sides of the border.

Rosa Flores, CNN, El Paso.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: I'm John Vause. We'll be back at the top of the hour with more of CNN NEWSROOM. But in the meantime, after a very short break, it's WORLD SPORT. Stay with us. I'll see you in 15 minutes.

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