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Ukraine: "Heaviest Of Battles" Ahead For Kherson; U.S. Military Aid To Ukraine Tops $18 Billion; Body Of American Killed In Ukraine Returning To U.S.; Clashes Across Iran As Thousands Gather At Mahsa Amini's Grave; White House: Signs Russia May Be Advising Iran On Crackdowns; Sunak Faces Grilling During First Prime Minister's Questions; Bolsonaro & Lula Try To Win Over Voters Living In Poverty. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired October 27, 2022 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[01:00:33]
JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everyone. Ahead here on CNN Newsroom. The looming battle for the Russian occupied city of Kherson with Ukrainian forces closing in, ill equipped, poorly trained to mobilize Russian troops are digging it. 40 days, protests across Iran escalate with the end of the official mourning period for Mahsa Amini, the young woman whose death has sparked anti-government uprisings across Iran.
And failing to meet failing goals. Not only are we not achieving promised cuts in carbon pollution, but even if we were, it would still be entirely inadequate to avoid a climate disaster.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from CNN Center, this is CNN Newsroom with John Vause.
Two major headlines from Ukraine. At this hour, reports Russian airstrikes have targeted the Kyiv region. Still no word on casualties as of yet. There is also the looming battle for the Russian occupied city of Kherson that could ultimately decide the direction of the war. With Ukrainian forces reported to be within 10 miles of the outskirts of Kherson, Russian soldiers are believed to be on defensive posture. With word Moscow has increased the number of troops by sending in new recruits, which Kyiv's military intelligence describes as cannon fodder.
Russian installed administrators are leaving the city along with more than 70,000 civilians. Kherson was the first Ukrainian city to fall and remains the largest city still under Russian control. Further to the east, the Ukrainian town of Bakhmut has been under intense and sustained Russian artillery fire for weeks. Tactics President Zelenskyy described as crazy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translation): The situation on the front line has no significant changes. The fiercest battles are in Donetsk region near Bakhmut and Avdiivka. The craziness of the Russian command is now most visible there. Day after day for months, they send people there to their death, concentrate the maximum power of artillery strikes there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Now the CNN Military Analyst and former Commanding General U.S. Army Europe and Seventh Army, Mark Hertling. General, thanks for being with us.
LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Always great to be with you, John. Thanks for having me on.
VAUSE: It's always a pleasure, sir. Thank you.
Now the Russian occupied city of Kherson looks set to be the next major battle here in Ukraine. There are reports the Russians have set up some defensive positions, Ukrainian intelligence, police, Russian troops have not actually withdrawn but actually digging in ready to defend. There is an old combat rule of three attackers for every one defender. Does that equation still apply in this situation? What are you expecting to see when this Ukrainian fencer begins?
HERTLING: Yes, I would say that three to one Mathematics, which Germany gave us over 100 years ago does not apply in this situation. Because what you're talking about in three to one is equal forces. You don't have equal forces in this fight right now, John. The Ukrainians have stepped up to the plate, they are fighting way above their weight class. And what we've seen on the Russian side is some real dysfunction.
As they're digging in the defense around Kherson, what you're talking about is the inability to resupply the Russian forces from the east. They're on the western side of a river. It's very difficult for them to get out there. Ukrainian said the other day, they have blown all the bridges, and they are attacking the ferries that are carrying supplies and equipment both to the east and the west of the Russians. So it's going to be very difficult for the Russians to defend without any food, water, ammunition, parts resupply, so I don't think we can apply that three to one advantage.
VAUSE: Will it be a quick battle, will it take -- will have drag on?
HERTLING: Well, you know, it's interesting because the Ukrainians have been setting the conditions for this battle over a very big territory for the last several weeks. They have achieved a little bit of momentum, but they haven't quite bagged the Russian forces I thought they would have a while ago. And that's because they're fighting on multiple fronts.
So they're shuttling some forces inside of interior lines back and forth from the Northeast, in Kharkiv, down in Kherson, and in some other places, it may take them a little while and plus, they already have some weather setting in on him. The rain and the mud conditions are already starting to affect combat, that's going to slow your forces down too. But Ukrainians have kept up their will, the Russians have not.
VAUSE: The Ukrainians would not be in this position of retaking territory without military assistance from now NATO and the United States, and that stands now more than $18.3 billion from this White House alone. And on that money from the U.S., here's President Joe Biden.
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[01:05:11]
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And we're going to continue to support Ukraine, together with our allies and partners around the world, and to defend itself against Russia's brutal aggression. We have to keep NATO strong and united, as we meet the threats and today and threats of tomorrow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Where would Ukraine be without this sort of endless supply of weapons, especially from the United States and NATO?
HERTLING: Yes, they would not be in good shape. What you're talking about is a different phase of the conflict. In the phase one, when Russians were attacking on nine different fronts, the the technologically advanced javelins and stingers were exceedingly beneficial to stop the Russian tank onslaught.
In these latter phases, you're talking about the contributions of HIMARS, and also M777 artillery pieces, firing very precision rounds of artillery, which the Russians have not done. It is attack -- the Ukrainians have been able to attack command post, supply depots, long convoys. So it has been very effective in treating the enemy.
And the second part of the campaign was a battle of attrition and a battle of the logistics, no doubt about it. The third part of the campaign now is really an air defense campaign against rockets and missiles. Because truthfully, John, that's all Russia has left.
VAUSE: In recent days, both Republicans and some Democrats have suggested there will be some limit to at least conditions placed on U.S. assistance to Ukraine, the military assistance, but here are the numbers. The U.S. Defense Department budget this year, just over $715 billion, almost $2 billion a day.
So the U.S. military assistance from the current administration, just over $18 billion, towards now to take 245, which is just shy of $750,000 a day in military assistance. So, you know, the return on investment seems pretty good. About $750,000 a day, defend Europe, save democracy, degrade the military capability of Russia for decades, exposed Putin as a paper tiger, not one American life has been lost. Pretty good bang for your buck, isn't it?
HERTLING: Yes, and it's a pretty good deal, I would say. But when you're talking about the entire U.S. defense budget, you're also talking about a military that is really roaming the globe. It isn't just centered in one area. So, you know, the U.S. military aid to different countries comes out of both the Department of Defense and the State Department. And it has been significant for Ukraine, no doubt about it.
But it certainly is affecting one of our biggest competitors, and that's Russia, one of our biggest foes over the last couple of months. Truthfully, though, you know, it's going to be tough to maintain that kind of budgeting. Because truthfully, what Ukraine wants is a completely transformed army. They want to completely transform military. And to do that, in a Western military power with technologically advanced equipment from the start, from the get go, is very challenging, and it's very costly, but as you just said, it is extremely effective.
VAUSE: Yes. General, as always, thank you so much. So good to see you.
HERTLING: Pleasure, John. Thank you.
VAUSE: Now to a CNN exclusive and the extraordinary efforts by two Ukrainian lawmakers negotiating with Russia for the body of an American man killed while fighting in eastern Ukraine. On Wednesday, the remains of 24-year-old Joshua Jones were handed over to Ukrainian authorities. Next comes the journey home and closure for a grieving American family.
More now from CNN's Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward.
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CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the frontlines in Ukraine, he was known to his fellow fighters as tactical Jesus on account of his long hair and deep knowledge of the Bible. To his mom, he was simply Joshy. Tennessee native Joshua Jones was just 24 years old when he was killed fighting in eastern Ukraine back in August. His passport and Ukrainian military ID showed up on Russian social media channels soon after, but his body was never recovered.
Since then, Ukrainian lawmakers Oleksandr Trukhin and and Alexander Kovalyov (ph) have worked tirelessly to get his body back. And today, it is finally happening.
(on-camera): Why is it important to you to recover the body of Joshua Jones?
OLEKSANDR TRUKHIN, UKRAINIAN MP: He's the same one hero for me like our soldiers, so we should make everything possible to give his body back to his family.
WARD (voice-over): We are driving to the front line in Zaporizhzhia. We stop along the way to link up with military intelligence. In another car, a Russian soldier sits slumped over. He is being released today as part of a larger swap in which 10 Ukrainians were already free. The lawmakers talk with the officers to go over the plan once more. A makeshift white flag is put together for the moment of transfer and we're off again. This time to no man's land. A rare two-hour ceasefire has been agreed by both sides and time is of the essence.
[01:10:12]
(voice-over)
So we've just arrived at the meeting point, they're waiting now for the Russians to arrive with a body. A team of forensic investigators get ready for the task ahead. This is as far as we are allowed to go. Actual handover will happen just beyond the hill, waiting for their return, it is eerily quiet. Only the bravest dare come out in these parts.
One of the transfer team captures the moment Joshua Jones' body is brought back into Ukrainian territory as Russian forces look on. For Kovalyov (ph) and Trukhin, it's the moment they have been waiting for. Jones is now one step closer to being returned to his family.
Back in the car, they show us his personal effects.
TRUKHIN: This is his personal body cross, which he was wearing. He was very religious guy.
WARD (on-camera): What's your feeling in this moment? You've been working towards this for a long time to try to get Joshua Jones back to his family.
TRUKHIN: Oh, feeling, we are proud of our country, of our team. We are proud of President and we are proud that we are saving lives. Because, you know, when even somebody is dying, his family continued to live and they cannot live normally, if they know that they don't have a place where to come for their son.
WARD (voice-over): Thanks to their efforts, Joshua's mother Misty Gossett in Tennessee will soon have the chance to say goodbye to her son.
MISTY GOSSETT, MOTHER OF AMERICAN KILLED IN UKRAINE: Joshua was -- he was a soldier, he was a born soldier. He was named after the battle of Jericho and he proved he lived up to his name. So valiantly, and I feel like the weight of the world has been lifted off of me.
WARD (voice-over): A name and a life that will be remembered even half a world away.
Clarissa Ward, CNN, Zaporizhzhia, Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: ISIS has claimed responsibility for an attack that killed at least 15 people injured 40 others at a shrine in southern Iran. State media reports the attack took place during one of the busiest hours for worshippers. Two others suspected attackers have been arrested by Iranian security forces. Search continues for a third. 40 days have now passed since 22-year-old Mahsa Amini died while being held by Iran so called morality police. Thousands gathered at her grave amid tight security. And across Iran, there were angry clashes between protesters and security forces. And in the capital Tehran, tear gas and pelicans (ph) were used to disperse demonstrators. Iran's Kurdistan province where Amini was from, there was a total blackout of the internet.
CNN'S Nada Bashir has latest now on the unrest.
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NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): The final resting place of Mahsa Jina Amini, a place of mourning and now of protest. Amini's name has become synonymous with a movement that is posing the biggest threat to the Iranian regime in years. Sparks in the wake of the 22- year-old's death while in the custody of Iran's notorious morality police, detained for allegedly contravening the country's strict dress code.
But now as the Iranian people commemorate 40 days since Amini's death, a significant marker of both mourning and remembrance. The movement has grown to become something far more wide reaching than its initial call for women's rights.
FIRUZEH MAHMOUDI, CO-FOUNDER & DIRECTOR: UNITED FOR IRAN: It was a protest that quickly turned into a movement and uprising and some of course say that there is definitely components of beginning parts of a revolution.
BASHIR (on-camera): And how important is Mahsa Amini's legacy in really driving forward this protest movement?
MAHMOUDI: Jina's death was a sparkle that led to this mass fire, right, that we're seeing throughout the country. That initial protests was not even about her job. It was of course about that, but that is much more than that. It's about bodily autonomy. It's about gender equality. It's about basic rights.
BASHIR (voice-over): Amini's death is now remembered alongside a growing list of women and young girls who have lost their lives at the hands of Iran security forces. The authority authorities deny responsibility, disregarding the mounting evidence of the regime's brutal and deadly crackdown on protesters.
TARA SEPEHRI FAR, SR. IRAN RESEARCHER, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: We have use of paintball guns, shotguns with metal or plastic pellets and also instances of use of assault weapons, assault rifles, clashing of style weapons, or even handguns that have been documented.
[01:15:13]
BASHIR (voice-over): This in addition to the mass detention of hundreds, if not thousands of protesters. Six weeks on, however, and the movement isn't losing steam. With protests gripping the country's universities and high schools and strike action by teachers, business owners, factory workers, even oil refinery workers, the backbone of Iran's economy.
The call for reform and for regime change is only growing louder.
Nada Bashir, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: With us now from Los Angeles is Assal Rad, Research Director for the National Iranian American Council. Thanks for being with us.
ASSAL RAD, RESEARCH DIRECTOR, NATIONAL IRANIAN AMERICAN COUNCIL: Thank you for having me.
VAUSE: OK, so we've just passed 40 days since the death of Mahsa Amini, and the 40 days is significant within Islam in terms of mourning, the loss of life. But also, in this instance, the call for anti-government protesters to take to the streets. So explain how has this all played out now across Iran?
RAD: Well, the 40-day morning periods are -- they mark traditionally the end of mourning periods when someone dies. In the case of protests, there's a history behind using these cycles of -- these 40- day cycles. For instance, in 1978, leading to the revolution of 1979, when protesters were killed by the state's forces, Iranians used these 40-day mourning cycles as a way to sort of mark their calendars and organize when protests would be held again.
And because this created a cycle when protesters were killed, you see the same sort of pattern possibly developing in the situation. Of course, right now, the killing of Mahsa Amini marks the first 40-day period, but we've had protesters killed over this period of time. And if those 40-day markers are used as other times to schedule these types of processions, then you can see how these protests might be sustained moving forward.
VAUSE: A recent report by the U.N. has found that over the past five weeks, thousands of Iranians have been arrested and jailed, among them dozens of human rights defenders, 170 students, 16 lawyers, 590 civil society activists, and at least 38 journalists. What does that list of arrest, the cross section of society they represent, say about where these protesters are coming from, where this is being driven from?
RAD: Well, it shows you that it's being, you know, this is coming from a cross section of Iranian society. This is cuts across gender, age, class, urban and rural. So you really have Iranians across the spectrum that are coming out in protest, though they are women and youth led, really, you have all sorts of, you know, all areas of Iranian society being involved.
But something to note, when you talk about all of these arrests, that prior to these protests, all of the sections of society that you just named whether journalists, activists, artists, even had already been, you know, there's a pattern of these sorts of arrests that exist, because there's a larger crackdown that has gone on, especially in recent years in Iran. But because of the protests, we're seeing that being magnified to where you have estimates over 12,000 people having been arrested since the protests began 40 days ago.
VAUSE: Well, and they're also facing right now. The regime in Tehran may be receiving some help from Moscow. I want you to listen to John Kirby, he's spokesman for the U.S. National Security Council. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KIRBY, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COMMUNICATIONS COORDINATOR: We have -- we see signs that they may be considering the ability to help train Iranians on cracking down on protesters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: If that is fact true, what concerns would that raise?
RAD: Well, anytime you have foreign or outside powers coming in -- and this is sort of a point of irony because it is the rhetoric of the Islamic Republic that these protests are not organic, that they are being fomented from the outside, that these are agitators that are foreign led, when in fact these are Iranians protesting legitimate grievances, but to then themselves, bringing outside powers obviously raises a lot of flags, and it's concerning.
At the same time, I would say that we have seen the precedent of the type of brutality that Islamic Republic has used to quell -- to squash protests, not only right now, but back in 2019, 2018, '17 and dating back to 2009. This has been a repeated pattern. So, you know, it's hard to say whether they would need help in squashing protests. They've already shown their level of brutality with using deadly force, shutting down the internet and through mass arrests.
VAUSE: Yes, it's a good point. They don't seem to be willing to have any hesitation in holding back if you like. The White House had this message for both Iran and Russia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Our message to Iran is very, very clear, stop killing your people and stop sending weapons to Russia to kill Ukrainians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[01:20:07]
VAUSE: Right now, it seems that both Iran and Russia are sort of moving closer together, if you like, were both increasingly being isolated by the rest of the world. What are the implications sort of long term of that?
RAD: You know, one of the consequences of the United States not having diplomatic relations, or at least even what we had with the JCPOA, say something like a deep -- something that allowed a country like Iran to pivot towards the west and pivot towards the United States, is that a sort of pushes its, again, too towards enemies of the United States or adversaries of the United States. So you see these adversaries allying against the U.S.
But one of the things that I think that is important that the Biden administration has done is, first of all, to prioritize the protests over negotiations, and to take steps to alleviate sanctions that are preventing Iranians from having access to the internet. There are other steps that the Biden administration may be able to take to help alleviate other things for Iranians to make sure that on our side, at least, we are not inadvertently aiding the Iranian government in blocking Iranians access to the internet.
VAUSE: Yes, it's a juggling act right now as to what gets through and what does not as far as the Biden administration is concerned. But as you say, they have to prioritize the protests, which is interesting, and a good move that many would say. So thank you so much, Assal, for being with us. Appreciate it.
RAD: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
VAUSE: Still to come, grilling time in Britain's Parliament. On the menu, fresh meat, the brand new Prime Minister. Details from London.
Also ahead, with a second round of voting in Brazil's presidential election set for Sunday, it seems poverty is now on the ballot.
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VAUSE: Welcome back. With Britain facing the worst economic crisis in a generation, the newly appointed Prime Minister has warned of difficult decisions ahead. Prime Minister's questions for Rishi Sunak there was unrelenting grilling by the Labour opposition and uproar when Sunak announced a key economic statement intended to address the cost-of-living crisis will be delayed until the middle of next month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RISHI SUNAK, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Mr. Speaker, I have been known as we will have to take difficult decisions to restore economic stability and confidence. And my honorable friend, the chancellor will set that out in an autumn statement in just a few weeks. But what I can say as we did during COVID, we will always protect the most vulnerable. We will do this in a fair way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: But it was the next appointment to Cabinet which threw most fire from the opposition with accusations of a grubby deal with Suella Braverman, who was back as Home Secretary a week after she resigned from the job over an ethical breach. CNN's Bianca Nobilo has more now from London.
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Rishi Sunak delivered for the Conservative Party at his first Prime Minister's questions. His first since becoming leader of the Conservative Party and Britain's Prime Minister on Tuesday.
[01:25:03] He had only 24 hours to prepare to face the House of Commons and the Conservative bench is behind him were full of cheers and support for the new Prime Minister as energetic and boisterous as I've seen them in a number of years. Kier Starmer, the leader of the Labour Party and Ian Blackford, the leader of the Scottish National Party both sincerely celebrated the fact that Britain's new Prime Minister is of Asian heritage.
Starmer didn't waste too much time on celebration and pleasantries though before he started asking hard questions. To begin with, revolving around Sunak's reappointment of Suella Braverman as Home Secretary, so far his most controversial appointment since becoming Prime Minister. That's because Braverman was fired as Home Secretary six days before her reappointment.
She was sacked by Liz Truss for a security breach. So there have been questions raised and eyebrows by the Labour Party and other opposition parties as to whether or not there was some kind of deal made behind the scenes between Sunak and Braverman.
But in terms of giving his party more confidence and more enthusiasm for the Prime Minister and the direction of the party, Sunak seems to have delivered it was interesting to see him go up against Kier Starmer, as both politicians have some similarities in terms of their communication style, known for being serious, having a good grasp of the brief and detail.
Watching them go toe to toe, it seems that Sunak may be able to get his wish which he said at the beginning of this Prime Minister's questions which was to have serious grown-up exchanges with the Leader of the Opposition.
Bianca Nobilo, CNN, London.
VAUSE: Brazil's bitter presidential election will likely be over this Sunday with a second round of voting between the former leftist President Lula da Silva and the far-right incumbent Jair Bolsonaro. Most polls show that with a slight lead, this runoff comes up to neither candidate receive more than 50 percent in the first round of voting earlier this month.
Both major candidates are trying to win over millions of Brazilians living in poverty. CNN's Paula Newton explains how the poor and destitute could become Brazil's kingmakers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nova Vittoria Speranza, this pandemic era village on the outskirts of Sao Paulo, is fertile ground for votes, but not food. The irony not lost on anyone here.
Food is the issue this mother of four will be voting on, even Nilda's (ph) partner works 16 hours a day and still she tells us, there isn't much in her refrigerator.
I just don't want my kids to go hungry, she says. She fears they may if President Jair Bolsonaro is reelected, even though he raised welfare payments ahead of the election. In my view, she says, Bolsonaro didn't fulfill his promises and has only given us the subsidy to see if he can get more votes.
People here know better than to expect too much from either candidate. But from former President Lula da Silva, they expect something. I intend to vote for Lula, she tells us, because Bolsonaro has been there for four years and in four years, he's not been able to do much.
(on-camera): From Brazil's impoverished suburbs to the streets of its commercial capital, inflation is biting here. Access to food has become a central election issue and a convenient campaign promise. It's tens of millions continue to live in poverty.
(voice-over): At Bolsonaro rally, supporters ridicule Lula, calling him a thief who belongs in jail, hardly a savior of the poor. Even Nilda (ph) sees Lula's passed corruption scandals differently.
Every single one that is in there steal something, she says, even just a little. They are talking about Lula and saying he sold, maybe he did, but at least he takes care of us, takes care of the poor.
Bolsonaro has spent billions on welfare subsidies in the lead up to this election, trying to prove he can save Brazilians from hunger. Robson Mendonca has been feeding the hungry for decades. He says hundreds more have been lining up at his soup kitchen in recent months. And he's troubled that the desperate plight of so many is being exploited for votes.
ROBSON MENDONCA, SAO PAULO COMMUNITY LEADER (through translation): Bolsonaro was even capable of lying on national radio saying there is no hunger in Brazil. They don't see anyone asking for bread at the bakery. He doesn't know reality. There are millions asking for a plate of food because they can't feed themselves.
[01:29:43]
NEWTON: To win, both presidential candidates need to count on votes from those who can't count on their next meal. A stark snapshot of what's at stake for Brazil's hungry.
Paula Newton, CNN -- Sao Paulo, Brazil.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: When we come back, dirty bomb allegations flying between Ukraine and Russia, with Russian powers worried that this could mean an escalation.
Plus, the Russians and the Ukrainian officials will weigh in.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Welcome back everyone, I'm John Vause, you're watching CNN NEWSROOM. An adviser to Ukraine's president is warning that the heaviest battle
with Russian forces is coming in the southern port city of Kherson. Ukrainian intelligence believes Russian officers and elite military units have been moving out of the city, replaced by new recruits described as cannon fodder.
Fred Pleitgen reports not far from Kherson's frontlines.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ukrainian forces trying to hit the Russians on all fronts. This mortar unit firing in the north of the country, while in the south, Kyiv is continuing a counteroffensive, trying to capture the Russian occupied city of Kherson.
We met up with an artillery unit on the battlefield.
The soldiers tell us there is firing going on here pretty much every day, several times a day. The frontline is not very far from where we are at all. It's a couple of kilometers in that direction. And right now, there is not very much movement on that front line. But still, the situation is very dangerous.
Ukraine's defense minister says Kyiv's counter offensive here is complicated by wet weather in the area. But the commander says, he believes in the end they will oust the Russians.
BANDERAS, UKRAINIAN ARTILLERY COMMANDER (through translator): I know one thing for sure, we will never step back from here. We have no other choice. Only forward. Ukraine has to get back all its territory and borders.
PLEITGEN: While Russia continues to mobilize hundreds of thousands for the war here, the Ukrainians say they found the Wagner private military company founded by Putin ally Yevgeny Prigozhin is sending Russian prisoners with diseases to the front line. The chief of Ukraine's military intelligence told CNN's Nic Robertson.
[01:3442]
KYRYLO BUDANOV, HEAD OF UKRAINE DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY (through translator): They put on them certain wristbands in blue, white or red color. Every color signifies tuberculosis, hepatitis or HIV. It's happening on a mass scale. Most of them who were taken prisoners or their dead bodies which were bombed in the battlefield had those wristbands.
PLETIGEN: CNN can't independently verify those claims. As Russian forces continue to lose ground in Ukraine, the Kremlin is conducting massive annual nuclear drills involving submarine launched ballistic missiles and others launched from Russia's fleet of strategic bombers.
While the Russians notify the U.S. about the drills well in advance, Russian president Vladimir Putin with a clear warning to Washington. VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): What they are trying to achieve, we see on the example of Ukraine, which has become an instrument of American foreign policy. The country has practically lost sovereignty and it is directly controlled from the United States.
PLEITGEN: But the Ukrainians on the frontline say they are fighting for their own freedom, not for anybody else.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN -- Mykolaiv, Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: CNN has reach out to Wagner Group for -- Wagner Group rather, for comment.
The U.S. Secretary of State says a Russian President Vladimir Putin has been made aware by direct and clear communications of the consequences of using a nuclear weapon in Ukraine. Antony Blinken is also the high ranking official to dismiss Russian accusations that Ukraine is preparing to use a so-called dirty brown, calling it yet another fabrication.
That dirty bomb claim was made again Wednesday, This time by President Putin and by the Russian ambassador to the U.K. He spoke with CNN's Christiane Amanpour. During that interview, he promised Russia would not use nukes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Why would a country want to create a dirty bomb radioactive disaster in their own country? Why would a country you know, do what you accused it of doing back in March, a chemical or biological weapon? Why would it do that?
ANDREY KELIN, RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR TO U.K.: I understand the question. We have a feeling that is this moment, authorities in Kyiv need to attract attention by something. Because actually, the offensive attack on different fronts, counterattack as they're calling it has stopped. They are now losing all resources.
The front line has stabilized, in all three places -- in Kherson, in the east, and in Zaporizhzhia. There is no movement, and this country has no more resources.
At the moment, it needs something. Like, probably the (INAUDIBLE) which is it's a difficult place, because if it will be damage, then there will be a flood over there, or perhaps something else.
So our people there should have (INAUDIBLE) if intelligence is saying that something is in preparation, then they are right about this. The issue is to verify, if it is not over there, so they will keep (INAUDIBLE).
AMANPOUR: You know that the west and Ukraine believe that this is a Russian false flag, and the west is very concerned that you're making these allegations as a cover for some kind of escalation on your side.
And you say that the Ukrainian battlefields, has now stabilized, in your word, and not moving. But the Russians also face a lot of pushback, and the west says the Russian military operation is not going as well. Is Russia trying to escalate this war?
KELIN: First of all, in his conversation, that means our defense (INAUDIBLE) he assured every minister once again that, once again, that we are not going to use nuclear weapons. There was no single statement, neither by the president, and the responsible (ph) guys, I don't know if may journalists talks on the television.
So Russia is not going to use nukes, so it is out of the question. Second is that what about a (INAUDIBLE), Ukraine offensive has stopped, nothing is happening.
AMANPOUR: Ok. You said that, I don't want you to have you repeat yourself. But this is really important what you just told me. That Russia will not use nuclear weapons. Now, tomorrow, in a month, in a year. No matter what happens?
KELIN: I cannot say about next generation.
AMANPOUR: In a conventional scenario, are you saying that your country has pledged, your defense minister, not to use nuclear weapons.
KELIN: Yes, this is what I'm saying, and this is what has been said, by defense minister, by the president, and all that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: CNN's Nic Robertson put Russia's dirty bomb allegations directly to the head of Ukraine's defense intelligence agency, here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: While making this issue about a dirty bomb a big issue, what is your assessment of what President Putin is trying to do, with the issue of the dirty bomb but also his defense chief spoke with opposite members in Washington, in London, in Paris, in Ankara.
[01:39:46]
BUDANOV: The Russian federation is conducting a special psychological information operation of influence, in order to push Ukraine towards a peaceful solution. However, those peace negotiations are unrealistic at this moment of our history.
Only when we return our territory, as of the 1991 borders, only after that we can start peace negotiations with Russia.
ROBERTSON: What is happening right now in Kherson. Is Russia reinforcing and intending to fight? BUDANOV: The Russians have taken, and are taking with them all the
remains of their so-called occupation administration, from Kherson city and surrounding areas, but at the same time, they bring into Kherson some new cannon fodder, from the newly mobilized Russian soldiers, getting ready for the street fighting yet they realize and understand the whole difficulty of their situation and they don't want to be totally encircled.
This process of withdrawal will start when we take the Nova Kakhovka Dam, under our artillery fire control.
ROBERTSON: If you take the dam, Russia will be forced to withdraw.
BUDANOV: It will increase dramatically the speed of the Russian withdrawal.
ROBERTSON: So that is a priority for you?
BUDAVOV: Yes, of course, that's why all of our fighting units are moving towards both Kherson and Nova Kakhovka.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: He also put Russian troop numbers in Ukraine at 176,000 and said most are replenishing Russian losses.
Still to come here on CNN, failing to meet a failing grade, the latest climate report from the U.N. says carbon pollution continues to rise, despite global commitments for reduction. So much for 1.5 degrees Celsius.
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VAUSE: Every year millions of travelers from around the world go on safari in Africa, bringing in billions of dollars for developing nations. But there's also an environmental cost associated with all those visitors.
Today on "Call to Earth" a (INAUDIBLE) on one of the continent's premiere wildlife viewing destinations is going green with programs which benefit both for tourists and the surrounding communities.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tourism is big business in Botswana, a landlocked country in southern Africa were wilderness and game reserves are the main attraction. Of its approximately 2.3 million people, nearly 9 percent work in the industry with the majority of visitors coming to bask in the jewel of the Kalahari, the Okavango Delta and its neighbor, Chobe National Park.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tourists, they're traveling from very far places from their country to come and see our beautiful country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But while all that traffic can be good for the economy, it could come at a huge environmental cost as waste, pollution and an increasing number of vehicles damage the health of the region's ecosystem.
[01:44:57]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a lion's track, it's heading to the west side, so it could be the lions that we saw down by the riverside yesterday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here in Chobe National Park, home to Africa's largest elephant population, Bainame Maome (ph) works as a guide for Chobe game (INAUDIBLE), the only permanent property inside its borders and the first in Africa to use an electric safari vehicle and electric powered boat.
BAINAME MAOME, SAFARI GUIDE: All this electricity that used to power the boats and vehicles are generated in house, from the solar panels. Even when we are driving the boat, the solar charges on the sun.
It's such an amazing experience (ph) with electric boats because they are much more quiet and you can even hear the bird calls and the animal calls like a lamb calls . For those who are bird watchers, it's a great moment and you can easily approach both the potentially dangerous animal like elephants and heaters without even these (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to the lodge, the electric vehicles have helped them save over 2,500 gallons of diesel, reduced their carbon emissions by nearly 28 tons and drastically cut back on and invisible but highly important issue in the natural world, noise pollution.
MAOME: We can hear the noise from the other boats. Obviously, the diesel-powered or petrol powered, they make a lot of noise, and then ours or so silent.
Of course being in the water they produce zero emissions, so they are so nice to move around. Especially when the elephants were swimming across and going to the other side, we can actually be close, you know, inches away, just to watch them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Earlier this year, a fully eco tourism certified lodge took another step to ensure their credentials by appointing Sepiso (ph) as their first environmentalist. And she says their sustainable practices extend across the entire property. And beyond from guest laundry board services to upcycling waste products.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have an initiative of manufacturing our cell -- so it all comes from this glass bottle here. And then we mix that with cements. We identify the less privileged people, maybe a family that we can build a house for. And we use those same (INAUDIBLE) to build those houses.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With a population so reliant on the income that tourism brings, eco lodges like Chobe are vital in forging a path that can maintain and even boost visitor numbers without damaging the very eco system that makes Botswana such an attractive destination.
MAOME: It's all about conserving and preserving what we have. We are taking care of our environment, making sure that we take good care of our flora and fauna. That's what matters most.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAUSE: Please let us know what you're doing to answer the call with the hashtag Call to Earth. Hashtag Call to Earth.
After a break short break, back in a moment.
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[01:49:57]
VAUSE: Just days after a deadly airstrike in Myanmar a spokesperson for the military dictatorship claims it never attacks unarmed civilians. These comments to CNN come after Sunday's airstrike which killed at least 62 people during an event held by the opposition rebel group, the Kachin (ph) independent army . Images supplied to CNN showed victims who were not wearing military uniforms. The U.N. condemned the attack saying the excessive use of force against unarmed civilians is unacceptable.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM ANDREWS, U.N. SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR ON HUMAN RIGHTS IN MYANMAR: There's a connection between the people of Myanmar and the people of the Ukraine. Among them is the fact that some of the very types of weapons that are being used to kill people in Ukraine are being used to kill the people of Myanmar. And they come from the very same source. They come from Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Spokesman for the Katin (ph) independent organization says these are images of graves, dozens who were killed during on Sunday's military strikes.
The bottom line for the U.N. on our efforts to reduce pollution is depressingly dismal. Not only has carbon pollution which drives up the planet's temperature reached record levels, it's climbing at an alarming pace. And then there is this. Not only are we not making commitments mad by Johnson to reduce emissions even if we did, global temperature which still raised by more than 2 degrees Celsius by the end of the century, well above the stated target of . 1.5 degrees Celsius. To reach that goal, U.N. says admission will have to cut by 45 over the next 8 years.
The head of U.N.'s weather agency says it's ultimately up to developed nations to avert a global disaster.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETERRI TAALAS, WHO SECRETARY GENERAL: In Glasgow the G7 countries and European Union made commitments and we heard commitments from several countries which didn't do so before. And the big challenge lies within the G20 countries. It's important to get the whole G20 family on board because that group's responsible for 80 percent of the global emission.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: With us now from Los Angeles is Shyla Raghav, a leading expert on climate change mitigation and reduction, co-founder of the organization CO2. Thank you for being with us.
SHYLA RAGHAV, CO-FOUNDER, CO2: Thank you for having me.
VAUSE: So in response to this report the U.N. secretary general tweeted this, "We are headed for disaster. We need urgent, large-scale and systemic climate action now."
Ok, here's the rub. Even if we can achieve the goal set by government, those which aren't -- if they were met will not reduce carbon pollution enough to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius. Isn't it time to repeat the whole approach? We're failing to reach inadequate benchmarks, even if we are successful we fail. This is lunacy.
RAGHAV: I absolutely take your point. I think that oftentimes it seems like these discussions that are so top down and they're not relatable to people day-to-day. There's really this disconnect between global discussions in a real call to action and what people are actually seeing in their communities.
I think the main point is that what's really clear is that individual agency is very important and this is a systemic issue that requires a systemic solution across business, across communities, across the private sector as well.
VAUSE: You are talking down expectations. Awhile back we gave up any hope of stopping the planet from heating, period. So se set a limit. We said 1.5 degrees Celsius, not so great, but livable.
The (INAUDIBLE) head of the U.N.'s environment program told CNN if we want to hit 1.5, we need to reduce our emissions by 45 percent by 2030. Is that doable? I don't want to say it's possible, but it will take commitment, leadership, bravery and real courage by leaders to make it happen.
So in other words, it's impossible. Right now according to the U.N. the current climate plan shows a 10.6 percent increase instead by 2030, so, were rising, we're not falling. So what happens, we fall back, we agree, we can deal with a planet which is 2 degrees warmer then 2.5 degrees warmer? What -- we just keep falling back?
RAGHAV: Well, I disagree with some of that sentiment just simply because it still is bio-physically possible for us to meet the 1.5 degree target. It really isn't too late and I think that is really the intent of this report. It's to sound an alarm but also to signal that there still is time for us to get back on track.
And that could be achieved through countries taking their commitment to climate change and to the Paris agreement seriously. And that could mean businesses and the private sector also stepping up to give governments the confidence that they can and they should meet those commitments and those targets.
So I think that it's not a matter of having false hope. I think it's a matter of us having courage and recognizing that it's our collective responsibility to future generations, to our own well-being and our own livelihoods to act quickly and decisively on climate change.
VAUSE: You know, I respect everything that climate activists do, what the U.N. do, what scientists do.
[01:54:57[
VAUSE: But I think by saying there is still time, it gives everyone a get out of jail free card to do whatever they want, and not worry about tomorrow, and not worry what happens to the planet, because we still have time. I think it's a really bad message.
RAGHAV: Yes, I completely understand your point in saying that by kind of giving -- providing that runway might give license to continue an unsustainable lifestyle, or to sustain industries or technologies that really aren't serving us.
However, I think there needs to be a transition plan. We're not going to be able to switch off all of our lights tomorrow. So I think we need to be looking at this as a transition and one that needs to be inclusive and can't leave any communities behind.
VAUSE: Look, absolutely. It's not easy, I'll give you that. and there's the impact now for increased levels of methane gas, which comes from landfill, coal mining, wastewater treatment and, of course, livestock. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAALAS: The second most important greenhouse gas is methane which is responsible for about 18 percent of the warming and we have seen record in the growth of methane concentrates last year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: This is something where there is almost no discussion about. (INAUDIBLE) to tackle methane gas levels I think it's been in New Zealand recent where the government proposed a tax on cow flatulence, and that's been opposed by the farmers there. This is never really debated or talked about.
RAGHAV: Well in the climate space, methane is quite a prominent issue. I think there's wide recognition that nothing is much more potent as a greenhouse gas and carbon dioxide. And there's a number of solutions that are related to the cultivation of rice or even shifting to plant- based diets that are really important for addressing fugitive methane emissions. As well as number of incentives -- financial incentives and carbon credits that are hoping -- aiming to curb fugitive (ph) methane emissions.
VAUSE: Shyla, thank you so much for being with us. Really appreciate your time and your efforts and your work. Thank you.
RAGHAV: Thank you very much.
VAUSE: And notably global demand for fossil feels has plateaued according to the International Energy Agency. One reason, a global energy crisis triggered by Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
In this new world energy outlook, the agency points to many countries investing in renewable energy. We grow closer to a turning point in the development of clean energy.
I'm John Vause. Thank you for watching. CNN NEWSROOM continues, with my friend and colleague Anna Coren right after this.
I'll see you right back here tomorrow.
[01:57:30]
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