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Federal Charges Filed Against Suspect In Paul Pelosi Attack; Death Toll From Seoul Crowd Surge Rises To 155. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired October 31, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Victor Blackwell.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: And I'm Bianna Golodryga. Just moments ago, federal charges were filed against the man accused of beating Paul Pelosi with a hammer inside his home. The federal charges reflect that Pelosi was allegedly targeted for being the husband of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

BLACKWELL: Federal prosecutors revealed more details on what happened to the 82-year-old. The Justice Department said that the attacker hit Paul Pelosi in the head with a hammer and official said the attacker plotted out what he would do to Nancy Pelosi if she lied to him. Let's now get the reporting from CNN's Whitney Wild give us the new details.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Justice Department is saying that this all began around 2:30 In the morning, Friday, when this man, the suspect, 42-year-old, David DePape, went to the Pelosi home, went to the back and entered through the back of the home. Based on this affidavit, it sounds like there was broke - that he was able to try to break through a door and somehow utilize that to get inside the home.

Then, DePape went up to the bedroom on another floor where Pelosi - Paul Pelosi, the husband of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was sleeping and woke him up. And at this point, this is where the story gets really, really strange, because Pelosi - DePape standing there basically over Pelosi who was sleeping in his bed and Pelosi was somehow able to basically talk him down from a violent attack.

Pelosi went into the bathroom, somehow called 911, and apparently according to this affidavit, DePape knew that, but chose not to leave. And then a few minutes later, San Francisco police were able to get to the home, Pelosi somehow and DePape both make their way downstairs. Paul Pelosi opening this door and when police arrive, they see both David DePape and Paul Pelosi holding on to a hammer.

And it was in that moment that DePape pulled the hammer away from Pelosi and was able to strike him in the head, Pelosi falling to the ground unconscious, back to you.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And we also learned that there are two witness statements one including from Paul Pelosi himself when he was in route to the hospital in the ambulance and another from a nearby security officer who was protecting a home in the area. Whitney Wild, thank you.

BLACKWELL: LET'S bring it now Gloria Borger, CNN's Chief Political Analyst; Ronald Brownstein, CNN Senior Political Analyst, Senior Editor also for the Atlantic; Alice Stewart is a CNN Political Commentator and Republican Strategist; and CNN National Security Analyst, Juliette Kayyem. She's a former Homeland Security official. We've also kept with us Harry Litman, former Deputy Assistant Attorney General.

Gloria, let me start with you, and Whitney mentioned that after DePape made that call, this is according to the interview that happened on October 28th. The question was why he didn't leave after he obviously knew that Paul Pelosi called the police. This is page six where DePape says ...

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

BLACKWELL: ... he explained that he did not leave after Pelosi's call to 911, because much like the American founding fathers with the British, he was fighting against tyranny without the option of surrender. When we asked the question about the rhetoric that's happening, and what some of these conspiracies that are being fed to supporters who may not be mentally well, this is where likely that goes.

BORGER: Tyranny. I mean, it's directly connected to the fake election and the stolen election. And a lot of people believe, like this gentleman, that this is evidence of tyranny and he is not going to surrender. I mean, what was also stunning to me was how much he was after Nancy Pelosi in this.

I know, the former President and others have tried to tie this to crime generally. Yes, there's polarization in the country. We all understand that, but this was directly tied to an attack on Nancy Pelosi. He was going to wait for her no matter what and in this affidavit, he said that he was after the truth, and that he would let her - if she told the truth, he would let her go and if she lied, he was going to break her kneecaps. And he articulated that he viewed Nancy as the lead - "leader of the pack of law," and that's the quote, of lies told by the Democratic Party.

[15:05:04]

So it's there in black and white. It is there. It is Nancy Pelosi, leader of the pack of the Democratic Party. This is not about crime in San Francisco.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And not only that, Alice Stewart, he also said that he wanted to break Nancy's kneecaps so that she would then have to be wheeled into Congress, which would show the members of Congress that there were consequences to actions. Now, thus far we have heard condemnation from Republicans. But as Gloria said, a lot of that was tied to just a rise in crime and heated rhetoric in general.

I'm curious, does this now warrant a sharper response specifically from elected officials to attacks like this, and threats against elected members of Congress and in this case, a Democrat?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Based on what we've heard in this information, there should be an unequivocal undeniable across the board condemnation for this type of behavior. It's absolutely inexcusable.

And hearing the details, I'm astounded at the impressive and brave presence of mind that Paul Pelosi had to fight off this attacker. I'm impressed with the swift law enforcement action. And I'm grateful that the legal community has taken such a swift and quick pursuit for justice in this case, and really pushing the limits in terms of the law that can be imposed against this person.

Look, you might not agree with Nancy Pelosi's politics and what she fights for and advocates for, but instead of taking out acts of violence, people and elected officials in elected office should be respected. They should not be victims of violence and certainly not members of their family.

And I think more than anything, the fact that he has advocated and talked about the suspect that he wants to try and prohibit Nancy Pelosi from engaging in further political activity, in my mind, I hope this causes her to even a double down in her commitment to what she's doing to serve the people of her party and the people of California.

I certainly hope and pray this doesn't deter her, but more than anything, this is a call for lowering the temperature across the aisle on both sides with regard to political rhetoric and political violence that does land in the minds and hands of deranged individuals that engage in activity like this, but we need to lower the temperature.

And what we need to not do, we don't need to broaden the strike zone with acceptance of divisive political rhetoric. We need to bring that down across the board and encourage people to - if they have problems with elected officials, they need to go to the ballot box and not take it out in violence - violent ways.

BLACKWELL: Harry, let me ask you, the two charges here, federal charges: assault on the immediate family member of a federal official and attempted kidnapping of a federal official. According to this interview, DePape's entire goal was to send a message to Congress that this was a political message. Why isn't there a terror charge here? Is this political violence? Is this - are you surprised that this is not any terror related charges on this list?

HARRY LITMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I'm not surprised given it's just been a few days. These are the placeholder charges that there will be now. There's also going to be (inaudible) state charges all the way up to murder. But just a quick comment, I lived in Berkeley for many years, a lot of crazies walking the street. But it's hard not to conclude that the reason somebody here is armed with both the ideas and the conviction to go forward to hammer on an 82-year-old man and it's a miracle he survived, his skull is fractured.

It's very hard to disconnect that from the really incendiary, nasty, violent political rhetoric that we've had steady diets of and I was not at all surprised. I think no one in law enforcement was that this guy would have revealed this hateful - not just hateful, but familiar, taken from the usual suspects kind of pattern in his social media and in his interview with the officers.

GOLODRYGA: Juliette, your response to these details and charges and I guess the after math here what this leads to in terms of more protection for elected members of Congress, whether they are high ranking or not and perhaps now even their family members who could be targeted clearly as we see with Nancy Pelosi's husband.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Right. That's right. So - and just to be clear, I'm just reading the complaint because I don't want to get it wrong, here's what he had just in his possession, a roll of tape, white rope, a second hammer, a pair of rubber and cloth gloves and zip ties.

Okay. So this is like not like I woke up and decided to be mean to Nancy Pelosi.

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This was a concerted - I mean, this was a planned attack against Nancy Pelosi and what it means and so I want to be clear here. If Nancy Pelosi sits in a very different league than most any other politician in terms of the attacks against her, if you go online to any of these MAGA sites to true social, it is Nancy Pelosi, it's the - she's the new Hillary Clinton, the new AOC, in terms of the attacks, the accusations against her.

So in some ways while there are threats against others, we know this against other politicians, it is not at all surprising to me that someone would have been radicalized against her specifically, because that's where true social Donald Trump, that's where their focus is.

So I want to talk about silence in terms of where do we go from here. You can give me a million police officers and I could deploy them to every elected official in the country and that won't solve what's happening in this country and we just have to face that at this stage. That what is happening is the silence and the condoning and the nurturing, even, by many in the Republican Party, about their leaders.

So the difference is not there's also left-wing violence, of course there is, is that it's being led by their potential head of their party in 2024. That's a big difference between Republicans and Democrats and you just have to be realistic about that. You can't say it's both sides when the leadership is pushing it. So silence and I appreciate what Alice said, silence becomes really important because the silenced by the GOP, which has more power to shut this down than they think. I wish they would know that, at least McConnell would know that, to shut this down, that silence is now breeding what we're hearing, because it's essentially now being condoned.

So if the leadership continues to be silent, give me a million cops, I'm not going to solve your problem. I'm not at this stage.

BLACKWELL: We've got a video here of the speaker leaving her home in San Francisco earlier this morning. Of course, the attack happened the very early hours of Friday morning. She was on the East Coast. She was in Washington, D.C. and had to fly back to be with her husband after his surgery. Again, he said to have doctors even before surgery said that he would make a full recovery as we know he's still in the ICU.

Ronald Brownstein, let me come to you on the point that Juliette was just making and control room ready the Glenn Youngkin sound, because there was a time when there was something - I don't even know if there's something like this in recent history that to which we can compare it, but there would be a reconsideration of rhetoric or a pulling of ads after something like this. This is a Virginia Governor Glenn Youngkin hours after the attack on Paul Pelosi.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GLENN YOUNGKIN (R-VA): Speaker Pelosi's husband had a break-in last night in their house and he was assaulted. There's no room for violence anywhere, but we're going to send her back to be with him in California. That's what we're going to go do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Just gliding straight from that attack right into partisan politics on the day of the attack.

RONALD BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I really want to underline what Juliette, as usual has framed the issue exactly right. I mean, all the experts on political violence that I talked to and she's certainly among our most prominent in this country.

We'll say that when you have a tendency toward violence in a political movement, the key to stopping it is a clear and unequivocal statement from the leaders of that political movement that violence is unacceptable. And we have seen exactly the opposite really now for years really, since Trump came down the escalator in 2015. Just in the last few days, we've seen all sorts of figures on the right senior editors at Axios, conservative columnist, Elon Musk tried to obscure the connection between this attacker and his marinating in far-right conspiracies.

We've seen Republican leaders and essentially the entire Fox lineup say that the problem is crying in San Francisco, not politically inspired violence. The University of Chicago estimates are that there are 13 million Trump supporters who say both that the election was stolen and that violence is justified to restore him to power. This is not an insignificant potential threat and obviously not all those people are going to act upon it.

But without a much stronger message than we have gotten and, by the way, continuing the pattern from the last few years of so many Republicans trying to normalize and minimize the January 6 attack, this clearly is the future that we are headed for. I mean, you know, there's no reason to think this will stop or this will diminish without a much clearer statements from the leader of the Republican Party that we are simply not getting. And if anything, we are getting, as Juliette said, a wink and a nod and a kind of condoning through silence.

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BORGER: If I could just add on to what Ron is saying because I agree with it a hundred percent, I think back to the early days of COVID and think about how the world might have changed if at that time Donald Trump had put on a mask and said, we have to be careful here, this is very dangerous. Wear a mask. How many lives would be saved?

Right now, if the former President were to come out and beyond offering condolences and saying it was terrible and awful, would say, this has to stop. And instead of blaming it on crime in San Francisco, as a lot of Republicans are doing in anticipation of what he would say, what difference would that make to people?

I think it would make a huge difference, but I don't hold out any hope that that's going to happen even after we read exactly what happened from the police department. And so this is going to continue, we're close to an election. Now you have ads up with people shooting guns, you have - it's just rampant. And I wish I could be optimistic that it's going to stop anytime soon, but I agree with Ron, I don't see it.

STEWART: Victor, if I can just say one thing to keep in mind, Nancy Pelosi being third in line to the presidency, it's chilling. It's chilling to see these images and hear these stories and this makes this a tremendous national security issue. And again, this is about political rhetoric that has led to political violence and that goes on both sides of the aisle. Juliette hinted at the fact that it happens - it does happen on both sides and I'm - I think it's really important for us to remember that you look at Chuck Schumer in March of this year, when there was hints of the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade, he said that that would unleash a whirlwind, and he would hate to see what would happen at that point and who knows what would hit them.

Three months later, a man was arrested outside of Justice Kavanaugh's home with a gun, with burglary tools and arrested for trying to assassinate a Supreme Court justice. So it's important to remember, this happens on both sides of the aisle. It's incumbent on Republicans and Democrats to lower the temperature on divisive rhetoric.

KAYYEM: (Inaudible) ...

GOLODRYGA: Juliette, just hold that thought one second, because we're getting more information now on the direct through line that DePape had to conspiracy theories. I want to go back to Whitney Wild who can tell us more information on that.

WILD: Well, one of the reviews that CNN has conducted of his social media platform shows that his social media accounts were really rife with conspiracy theories about COVID vaccines, about the 2020 election and about January 6. But - and so police still continue to be very reluctant to assign specifically a motive here. But there's lot more information here that makes it difficult to extract the idea that this wasn't politically motivated.

Although, Chief Bill Scott, the Chief of the San Francisco Police Department did tell Ana Cabrera on CNN earlier today that they believe they do have a motive, they just have not told us publicly exactly what they think it is yet.

But let's go back specifically to the charges. He's accused now of assault on the immediate family member of a federal official, attempted kidnapping of a federal official. If those two crimes bear the weight of the full sentence, the maximum sentence and they were to run consecutive 120, 130, he could face up to 50 years in federal prison. That doesn't even include the list of local charges that he is very likely to face.

Further, another piece of information that we're getting from this affidavit is what police found upon searching where he was living, which was apparently a garage somewhere in this area. Police finding two more hammers, a sword, a pair of rubber and cloth gloves. Again, as Juliette points out, when you combine that with the list of other things he carried, it's pretty clear that at least based on what he had on him, that this was well pre planned and now, again, if he's convicted of these crimes could face a maximum of 50 years. Back to you.

BLACKWELL: Whitney, thank you for that.

I want to go back to what Alice just said that this happens on both sides. When you say both sides, it is the Republican Party, many, many of them in leadership who are telling their voters that your election was stolen, that is not true. It is Republicans who are telling and not all Republicans, I'm saying there's some on the fringe, but it's moved to the center, the QAnon conspiracies, that there are Democratic leaders who are leading circles or abusing children, drinking blood that the Democrats hate god, hate the country.

When you say this happens on both sides, you have to consider what this man said why he was there. He said that he did not leave because like American founding fathers with the British, he was fighting again against tyranny. Who told him that he was fighting against tyranny?

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Many of the people who are on the ballot on the Republican ticket, so when you say both sides, consider what he said why he was there and who fed him that. Alice, Juliette, Harry, Ron, Gloria, thank you all.

BORGER: Yes.

STEWART: Thanks, Victor.

GOLODRYGA: Well, investigators in South Korea are now trying to figure out what led to a massive crowd surge that killed 155 people including two Americans. The doctor who was there and then jumped in to help will join us live up next.

BLACKWELL: And new today, Indiana State Police announced they have arrested a man in connection to the 2017 murders of two teenage girls from Delphi. Details on that just to ahead.

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[15:25:04]

BLACKWELL: The number of people killed during Saturday's horrific crowd surge in Seoul has now reached 155 in one of the deadliest tragedies ever in South Korea. Authorities say there were no guidelines for crowd control with this outdoor Halloween festival. Look at this, no clear organizer for this event.

Two Americans are among the dead: Steven Blesi, he was a college student from Georgia, his father said that he was studying international business; and Anne Gieske, she was a University of Kentucky nursing students who was studying abroad. Well, my next guest is an American doctor who was at the Halloween festival, just 30 minutes before the surge happened. This is her video.

Imagine being in this crowd and she was later asked by officers to help those who had been hurt in the chaos. Let me bring in now Dr. Sophia Akhiyat. She joins me now from Itaewon, the district there in Seoul where this happened. Dr. Akhiyat, thank you for being with me.

Let me start just at the beginning, you were there 30 minutes before the crush. This was your video. We can play it again here. Tell me what it was like and what it felt like.

DR. SOPHIA AKHIYAT, WITNESSED CROWD SURGE AND ASSISTED POLICE: Yes. So Itaewon is a really popular neighborhood among foreigners. Halloween is actually not a holiday that's celebrated in Korea, though it is in Itaewon, because it's such an eclectic cultural mixing pot and it's really popular among Korean youths as well to enjoy.

So it wasn't actually a festival or a gathering. It was just - it's a street of bars, restaurants and clubs where people like to frequent and the activity is to wear your costume and go out for a night of celebration. So this year, by my understanding was filled with way more people than normal, because COVID pandemic restrictions had been lifted and everyone wanted to partake in this. People even flew into Seoul to visit Itaewon for this experience. And I was there for dinner and was trying to leave through the same alleyway where this incident occurred about half an hour before it occurred.

And in this video, I remember I took it because I never saw that many people around me before and as I tried to walk through the crowd, I couldn't walk, it was standstill foot traffic and I was getting squeezed. So I had to lean against the wall and guide my way out in order to exit and the reason why I was leaving was because my friend Patrick had called me to a different area in Itaewon and I wanted to go see him. Otherwise, if he didn't call me I could have been involved in the crush myself.

BLACKWELL: How did you make it through that crowd? I mean, I imagine and listen - I'm six' two", 250, so I can make my way through a crowd, that one maybe not. You've described yourself as shorter to my producers. How did you get through?

AKHIYAT: So I - it took me about 10 minutes to get through that alleyway, which is just one block and I felt really unsafe. I was walking by myself and I remember thinking this is a big mistake. And the only way that I was able to make any progress was to go against the wall and physically hug the wall and shimmy my way through as I tried to minimize pushing people because I knew with that many it was high risk for a stampede or something like this to happen. If one person were to fall, then it would be a domino effect.

BLACKWELL: It would be hard to get that person back up, obviously. You were called back in to help. When you return, describe for me what you saw.

AKHIYAT: So the reason why I was returning to that alleyways because originally I was at one of the restaurant clubs there and after seeing my friend, I wanted to go back. I went through the first entrance of Itaewon, because it's several blocks with multiple entrances. And as I'm walking, I see several men running in my direction holding a girl who's limped and looks lifeless. She doesn't look intoxicated, so I knew something was horribly wrong.

And then right after that, right behind, there were three other limbed men were being carried. And one of the groups that were carrying - one of the victims accidentally dropped him, so I rushed to him and I checked for a pulse and he was white and seem to be in cardiac arrest, so I started compressions there. And then I had the people that were holding him join the CPR line so that he had constant compressions on his chest. So once my turn was finished, the next man entered and at that appoint a police officer saw me and said that I need to evacuate the area, but I told him I'm a doctor and I can help with first respond care.

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