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New Uvalde 911 Calls Revealed; New Details Emerge on Alleged Pelosi Attacker; Trump Aide Forced to Testify in Mar-a-Lago Probe; Final Midterm Push. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired November 03, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:02]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: He now joins Mark Meadows, Senator Lindsey Graham as close Trump associates who have been told by courts, they must testify in cases exploring his conduct.

Meadows and Graham will testify in a different case, that the Georgia probe into Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

Thanks for your time today on INSIDE POLITICS. Hope to see you tomorrow.

Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

Thanks for being with us. The final stretch is here. We are now just five days to midterms, with control of Congress on the line. And here are the big-name closers on the trail today, President Biden flying to New Mexico, Vice President Harris in New York and former President Trump in Iowa, where he's kicking off four rallies in five days.

But we're going to head to Georgia first, because power in the Senate could come down to this race and the Peach State yet again.

CNN Eva McKend is in Atlanta for us.

Eva, you have been tracking this key battleground state for months. What do we need to know?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: Well, Ana, we have gotten to the stage of the game where Senator Warnock, Herschel Walker are making their closing arguments.

Senator Warnock talks a lot on the trail about his bipartisan work in Congress, arguing that he is willing to work with Republicans if ultimately it is in service to Georgians, talking about health care and his efforts to lower the cost of insulin.

Meanwhile, Herschel Walker working overtime, despite his many scandals, to tie Warnock to President Biden, blaming them both for the state of the economy. Walker also routinely invokes his faith, saying on the campaign trail just yesterday: "I'm going to go to Washington, and I'm going to take Jesus Christ with me." Take a listen to both of their closing arguments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): The differences between the options that Georgians have right now are wide and deep.

And look, the reality is, we always knew this would be a close race. And I think that speaks to where the country is and where people are. But I think, when you look close -- and you don't have to look that close.

(LAUGHTER)

WARNOCK: You can see that Georgians have a clear choice.

HERSCHEL WALKER (R-GA), SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: God was getting me ready to go, because he said, you got to go up against some tough, tough people. They got to talk about you like a dog. You can't believe it.

And then, that's what is so funny. They have spent almost $100 million against me already. And they're still behind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: And if you look at the latest polling, it shows that these candidates are statistically tied. What is really remarkable that is unique to this state is so many people have voted already.

The total pre-Election Day voting has surpassed two million voters. Yet and still, Walker and Warnock are still trying to speak to those persuadable voters, those voters who have not made their minds up yet in this state. Hard to imagine that there are any left though, Ana.

CABRERA: Great to see people taking action, casting those votes and those ballots. Thank you. Eva McKend.

Voters in Georgia and elsewhere cast those final ballots next week. But it could be several weeks before we know some of the winners.

CNN political director David Chalian is here to explain this for us.

David, there's a solid chance we won't know the winner of this Walker, Warnock race until December?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, that's certainly true because of the run-off rule in Georgia, Ana.

As you know, a candidate has to get to 50 percent plus one to win it outright on election night. You're putting up there the most recent "New York Times"/Siena poll from last week out of Georgia. You see neither candidate is at that 50 percent mark in that poll, also no clear leader there. That's within the margin of error. So it is a true toss-up race.

And it's possible neither candidate gets to 50 percent, plus one. And that means we just keep going in this run-off campaign through December 6. That's when the run-off would take place. Folks probably remember, last cycle, there were two Senate races in Georgia, both of which went to run-off contests.

And, actually, those were the decisive states that handed Senate control to the Democrats.

CABRERA: And there are other key races that could be too close to call on election night as well. What are you watching?

CHALIAN: Yes, I mean, obviously, the battleground states are pretty clear here, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona, and Nevada, Georgia.

You see them all there. Those are going to be the most closely watched states on election night. And here's what we know. It is different state by state how the votes get counted, which matters in terms of how long it may be before we know the result.

Let's use Pennsylvania as an example. They are not allowed to process their absentee mail votes until Election Day, until the polls open next Tuesday. You see the poll there from "New York Times"/Siena last week also showing that Pennsylvania race, showing a slight edge for Fetterman there, 49 percent to 44 percent. But it's a close race. Most of that poll was before taken -- before that debate.

[13:05:15]

But, Ana, if you can't even open the envelope and start processing absentee votes until Election Day, you can understand it may take some time to get that counted. You remember, we didn't know the result in the presidential race in 2020 until the Saturday after Election Day in Pennsylvania because of that process.

I don't think there will be as many votes this time. It's a midterm, not presidential. And the history of absentee voting in Pennsylvania, it just skyrocketed during the pandemic. We will see if it returns to form this time.

But we know that people vote, how they vote is a lot based on their partisanship. So, Democrats tend to vote as a bigger share of the pre- Election Day vote, absentee vote, vote by mail. Republicans tend to be a bigger share of the Election Day in-person voting. And each state counts these votes in different orders and differently.

And so understanding that, as we watch election night unfold, will be very important, because what may look like a big lead, let's say, for Republicans at the outset in Pennsylvania, that may be because only Election Day vote is counted.

And then we may see the Democrats close the gap as more and more of that absentee vote gets into the mix. So, it's just important to understand what -- as the votes are coming in, what kind of vote it is and what we know about what is not yet in.

CABRERA: Right. That could shift the dynamics. It could shift the momentum. It could shift who's in the lead at any given time, and so we will have to be patient. Thank you for explaining all of that to us. And it's a reminder we may not know who controls the Senate on election night or the next day.

CHALIAN: Most likely not, yes.

CABRERA: Could be longer.

Thank you, David Chalian.

CHALIAN: Sure.

Let's bring in CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein now and explore more of the midterm political landscape here.

Ron, President Biden is in New Mexico today following his prime-time speech on threats to democracy last night. Former President Obama is also focusing on this as he campaigns in key battleground states. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you have got election deniers serving as your governor, as your senator, as your secretary of state, as your attorney general, then democracy as we know it may not survive in Arizona. That's not an exaggeration. That is a fact.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is also the first election since the events of January 6, when the armed, angry mob stormed the U.S. Capitol. I wish, I wish I could say the assault on our democracy, it ended that day.

This year, I hope you'll make the future of our democracy an important part of your decision to vote and how you vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Ron, is this closing message the Democrats' best strategy?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, I guess I would say necessary, but not sufficient.

There's no doubt, Ana, that if you look at the underlying economic attitudes in the country, Democrats are more competitive in this election than you -- than the traditional models would suggest at a moment when so many people are dissatisfied with the economy.

And that is largely because they have successfully focused a share of their traditional coalition, particularly white-collar voters, on these questions of rights, abortion rights, and democracy.

But those voters, the voters who are focused on those issues remain fewer than the voters who are focused on the immediate kitchen table concerns in front of them, on inflation.

(CROSSTALK)

CABRERA: It's the economy, stupid, right? We have heard that before.

BROWNSTEIN: Right. Right.

I mean, it's not as if democracy and abortion are irrelevant in this election. It is why Democrats are in the game, particularly in the Senate, at a moment when presidential disapproval and dissatisfaction of the economy would point towards sweeping Republican gains, which we might get in the end anyway.

But the idea that this can completely erase the concerns about inflation obviously has proven untrue, as we have gotten closer to the election, particularly for those last few points of voters who don't follow the campaigns as closely and really aren't necessarily tuned in to these arguments that might seem a little abstract to them.

Those are, I think, kitchen table voters, and that is a very tough environment for Democrats, when you have got the highest inflation in 40 years.

CABRERA: What about who the messenger is?

Former President Trump, for example, now in Iowa at an event for Republican Senator Chuck Grassley today. Why Iowa? Is that state in play for Democrats?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, no, not really. But Iowa is always in the foremost in the mind of people running for president, right, Republicans. Iowa will certainly be the first state in 2024.

Look, I mean, part of the problem Democrats have is that Biden this year is more consistently and broadly facing disapproval than Trump did in 2018. If you look at it on a national basis, Biden's national approval on Election Day might be very comparable to Trump's 45 percent in 2018.

[13:10:11]

But the key difference is that, in 2018, there were still states where Trump was at 50 percent or above. In fact, the four Democratic incumbents that Republicans beat in the Senate in 2018, even though it was a good overall year for Democrats, were all in states where Trump was at 50 percent or above, Florida, North Dakota, Missouri, and Indiana.

In contrast, this year, Biden's approval is pretty weak, 45 percent or below, often 40 percent or below, in pretty much every state that matters for the Senate battle, which is why you haven't seen him in some of these key battlegrounds like Arizona and Nevada.

CABRERA: Also, today, Hillary Clinton hits the campaign trail for the first time this election cycle. She's not in a battleground state, but in New York. What do you make of the timing and location? BROWNSTEIN: Yes, the rain falls on the just and the unjust alike. When

things are bad, there -- no state is entirely an island, right?

And when you have the level of dissatisfaction that we have with the economy now, there are going to be Democrats in very blue states that are going to have closer calls than they expect. And some might even fall.

Now, New York is a place where, in the end, it looks like Democrats can stabilize in that governor's race. But there are a number of House races that are surprisingly difficult for them. But, as I say, I mean, there's no place that's entirely safe when you have a storm.

I mean, the key, as always in a midterm, is going to be who shows up. It's really striking that the final polls that came out yesterday from CNN, Marist, Quinnipiac all had Republicans doing better among likely voters than among registered voters. And the reason for that is they anticipate that young voters in particular will fall back to their low turnout patterns to 2014 and 2010, won't come close to matching what they did in 2018.

And that will give a final advantage to Republicans. And so that is going to be one of the critical variables about whether those predictions hold or whether, in fact, Democrats can find a way to mobilize young people, who were never that excited about Joe Biden all the way going back to the 2020 primaries.

CABRERA: Yes. And as you slice and dice some of the most recent polling, when you look at voter enthusiasm, Republicans also have the lead there when it comes to voters who say they are really, really excited to turn out to vote right now and vote for their candidate, for their issue.

Ron Brownstein, thank you very much for joining us.

Turning now to the investigation of Donald Trump and those highly sensitive documents at Mar-a-Lago, a federal judge has ordered former Trump adviser Kash Patel to testify before a grand jury investigating this case. This is the adviser who, following the Mar-a-Lago search, claimed Trump declassified large swathes of documents while in office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASH PATEL, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: In October of 2020, President Trump put out for the world to see a sweeping declassification order, and he did it via social media, every single Russiagate doc, every single Hillarygate doc, everyone.

Those are his words. That is the precedent that the president of the United States is allowed to operate under. And then, in December in January, on the way out, I witnessed him declassify whole sets of documents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Let's bring in Carrie Cordero, a CNN legal analyst, former counsel to the U.S. assistant attorney general.

Carrie, Patel was called before the grand jury before and declined to answer several questions by pleading the Fifth. But, this time, sources close to the investigation tell us he has been granted immunity. What does that indicate to you?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think it's an important progression in the Justice Department's investigation.

So, he was absolutely entitled to invoke his constitutional right, his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself. And so what we see, Ana, is, we see the process, the judicial process, and the investigative process working. After that, the Justice Department then moved to compel.

And so now the judge has gone ahead and authorized for him to be given use immunity, which means that whatever statements he makes when he does end up testifying before the grand jury, the Justice Department can't use those statements against him in this particular matter, so about the topics that have to do with the handling and the mishandling of these classified documents and of the potential obstruction of the investigation.

So it means that, when he eventually does appear before the grand jury, he will need to answer questions. He will be under oath, and he will be under penalty of perjury if he's not truthful.

CABRERA: But why give him immunity? Why clear kind of the field for him in his legal jeopardy that he could be in? He must have some value to federal prosecutors, right? What do you think he could provide to them?

CORDERO: Absolutely.

So, the Justice Department would not want to go ahead and go along with the decision to offer him use immunity if they really didn't think that the information he has is compelling, is important, is in the public interest, and is in really the interest of this investigation going forward.

[13:15:21]

The Justice Department has an open, active, obviously criminal investigation. They are bringing witnesses before the grand jury. They're bringing information before the grand jury. The grand jury functions as a process to be able to eventually bring an indictment if they have the evidence to do it.

And so they obviously have made the judgment, which is not a light one for prosecutors to make, because usually they would like to be able to prosecute anyone that they think they have evidence to bring the crime against, if it meets the particular prosecutorial discretion and the objectives of the Justice Department for a particular crime.

So they think that he has information that's really important to the continuation and the resolution of their investigation. CABRERA: Could this put more pressure on other Trump insiders to

cooperate with prosecutors?

CORDERO: Well, each person will be handled individually.

So, certainly, the fact that he has gone through this process and that we're seeing this process work should -- potentially will indicate for other witnesses that this is the process of the Justice Department and that the judge handling overseeing the grand jury can potentially implement.

So it is such an option that potentially is there, but the Justice Department would have to have the judgment that other witnesses have the same important information that they obviously have judged Kash Patel to have. Not just anyone is going to be enabled the process to have been granted immunity.

CABRERA: OK, Carrie Cordero, good to see you. Thank you so much for joining us.

CORDERO: Thanks, Ana.

CABRERA: He can't even vote. The man who allegedly attacked House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's husband, in an alleged effort to take Nancy Pelosi hostage, is not a United States citizen and may be deported. How does that impact the case?

Plus, Elon Musk just met with a bunch of civil rights leaders, among others, and made promises on fighting hate and misinformation on Twitter. But will he follow through? We will discuss with a man who was in that meeting.

And why glaciers at Yellowstone or Yosemite National Park could be gone in just 30 years, and why that's a big problem.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:21:48]

CABRERA: We're learning today the man accused of brutally attacking House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's husband, Paul, with a hammer was in the U.S. illegally.

He's Canadian, and now he may be deported.

CNN's Veronica Miracle is following these developments for us.

Veronica, what more are you learning about what David DePape was doing in the U.S. in the first place?

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, we understand, according to federal records, that David DePape was a Canadian citizen who was here on a temporary visa.

We're told that he entered the country through the California-Mexico border back in March. Now, Canadian residents are allowed to be in the U.S. on temporary visas for up to six months at a time. But those federal records state that he overstayed that visa.

So, ICE has issued a detainer on him, which essentially means that they have asked authorities to notify them in the case that he were to ever be released -- Ana.

CABRERA: So how could this development impact the case?

MIRACLE: So we understand that this is really unlikely to have an impact on his case immediately.

These immigration issues are often resolved after criminal issues are settled. So, in the case that he would ever be deported and the U.S. were to seek that, that would happen after a potential conviction and after a potential prison sentence.

Ana, DePape and entered not guilty pleas for all of his felony charges for -- that the state has issued him, including a assault with a deadly weapon, attempted murder, burglary, elder abuse, among others. He faces up to 13 years and to life in prison for those charges.

And Congresswoman Jackie Speier just actually said that the state could consider charging him with a hate crime.

Here's what the San Francisco district attorney, Brooke Jenkins, had to say about that possibility.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKE JENKINS, SAN FRANCISCO DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Of course, we will be looking into everything that we believe is a crime that he violated.

At this point, that is not something that we saw fit to charge, but we certainly, as well as the federal government, will be looking at what charges we will proceed on going forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MIRACLE: Ana, DePape is also facing two federal charges, for which he has not entered pleas on, and he faces up to 50 years in federal prison for just those two charges.

Tomorrow is going to be the next step in his court proceedings here for those state charges. We understand that he is not expected to be in court. It's going to be more of a procedural hearing, where they're going to be setting dates for the next step in this -- in those state charges and what he's facing there -- Ana.

CABRERA: Veronica Miracle, thank you for that update.

And now to a CNN exclusive and new chilling 911 audio from another student trapped inside a classroom during the elementary school massacre in Uvalde, Texas.

Yesterday, we played the heart-wrenching call from Khloie Torres, the 10-year-old girl who pleaded with dispatchers: Please get help. I don't want to die." One of her classmates who survived, fourth grader Miah Cerrillo, was injured by flying shrapnel in her shoulders and head. She also spoke with a 911 dispatcher asking for officers to help save them from the gunman as shots were fired in the background.

[13:25:01]

CNN crime and justice correspondent Shimon Prokupecz is here with us now.

Shimon, what more can you tell us about Miah and this sound we're about to hear?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right.

And so this sound takes us a little further into the events of that day, sadly, just horrific. And this takes us through sort of the moment where there were gunshots fired inside the classroom, and you see officers not reacting. They start heading towards the classroom, but she's on the phone telling the dispatcher there are gunshots, not even certain where the gunman is, but she could hear the officers.

So what we did is, we took the video with her, with audio, and we put it together to give viewers this view of what was going on in those moments. Take a look.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

MIAH CERRILLO, STUDENT: Hello?

911 DISPATCHER: I'm here. I'm here. I'm here.

CERRILLO: OK.

Is the killer in the building?

911 DISPATCHER: I'm sorry?

CERRILLO: Is the killer in the building?

911 DISPATCHER: Yes, he's still in there in the building. So, I need you to be quiet. And do not open the door until we tell you to.

CERRILLO: OK.

911 DISPATCHER: Everyone needs to be as quiet as possible.

CERRILLO: He's shooting.

911 DISPATCHER: Stay quiet. Make sure everybody stays quiet.

CERRILLO: OK.

The officers are (INAUDIBLE)

911 DISPATCHER: Are there officers there? CERRILLO: (INAUDIBLE)

911 DISPATCHER: OK. Hold on. Hold on. Don't do anything.

CERRILLO: The officers are in the building.

911 DISPATCHER: What was that?

CERRILLO: I think the officers are in the building.

911 DISPATCHER: OK. Officers are in the building, but do not open the door until I tell you.

CERRILLO: OK.

911 DISPATCHER: Everyone needs to be as quiet as possible.

CERRILLO: OK.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CABRERA: Shimon, the bravery of these kids, these children, is just -- it's unmatched.

PROKUPECZ: Unmatched.

CABRERA: And you know what is so disturbing as I watched that with the time code alongside the officers' actions, while we were seeing and hearing what this child was telling a dispatcher, what Miah was sharing, is that should remove any doubt what she was relaying to them that this shooter was still active.

And yet we're seeing those time codes around 12:20, 12:25, and they didn't even enter the building in -- room, I should say...

PROKUPECZ: The classroom, yes.

CABRERA: ... until about 12:50...

PROKUPECZ: That's right, yes.

CABRERA: ... another half-an-hour later.

PROKUPECZ: Almost an hour later from when even the time the gunshots were fired.

And they could hear the gunshots because you see in the video they react to it. But then they stop. They start advancing, and then they stop. And they're waiting for the Border Patrol, the SWAT team from the Border Patrol to eventually go in.

We didn't air the gunshots. It's obviously very disturbing. And the family asked us -- have asked us not to air any of the gunshots. So we respected those -- their wishes. But it's horrific, because these kids are in the classroom. You could hear the gunshots. CABRERA: And I know you have been sharing this audio that you have

gotten on these 911 dispatch calls with some of the family members of victims...

PROKUPECZ: Yes.

CABRERA: ... with obviously the family members of these two girls who you brought us their audio from.

And I'm wondering if the calls has had an impact in how they view accountability?

PROKUPECZ: Yes, that's the whole point of this for them. It's accountability.

They want these stories out there, because, otherwise, they feel, answers -- they will never get the answers they need and that people will never -- those officers and the government officials and officials who were making decisions that they will never be held accountable. So that's why they're doing this.

Also, these calls have really helped these parents. It's been tough for them. I spoke to a parent last night who said, it's been rough. This morning, they're having hard times listening to what their kids were going through.

CABRERA: I imagine.

PROKUPECZ: But it's helping them answer some questions and I think understand better what was going on in the classroom in those moments to try and help deal with what their kids are now dealing with, the trauma and the fact that these kids knew that these officers were in the hallway.

And there's -- these questions that these kids continue to have is, why didn't they come and get us sooner?

CABRERA: And we kept getting dribs and drabs of information and learning new tidbits here and there.

PROKUPECZ: That's right.

CABRERA: Do we know when the investigation is supposed to be complete?

PROKUPECZ: No, that's the problem here.

The head of the Department of Public Safety, Steve McCraw, said that he thinks maybe in two months or so, the last public hearing, that it could be another two months before there's some information, and it's going to be peer-reviewed.

What we need to know is, are we going to have a detailed report from someone?

CABRERA: Right.

PROKUPECZ: We know the DOJ has launched a review. But will anyone on the state level launch a review?

People are still -- like, in the city of Uvalde, they are still waiting for information so that they could launch their review and make any necessary changes, because there's a district attorney there who's refused, refused to release any information and has prevented them in some cases from reviewing information.

CABRERA: Because that district attorney is doing their own review...

PROKUPECZ: Yes, she is. It's...

CABRERA: ... to see if criminal charges are warranted in this response?

PROKUPECZ: She's doing an inve -- she -- she -- that's something she's investigating.

But it's not really clear. And no one really understands what's going on.