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Economy Adds 261k Jobs In Oct., Unemployment Ticks Up To 3.7 Percent; Rail Strike Looms As Unions Reject Deal Made With Biden's Help; Oath Keepers Leader Rhodes Chokes Up During Testimony; Justice Dept. Mulls Possible Special Counsel If Trump Runs In 2024; Forecast: Holiday Sales To Rise, But Families Will Use Savings, Credit; FAA To Weigh In On Whether Airplane Seats Are Getting Too Small. Aired 10:30- 11a ET

Aired November 04, 2022 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Specifically, the chairman's disturbing warning as they describe it to American families, I believe referencing his comments that the path to a soft landing is narrowing here. Set aside the Fed itself, because I know you don't like to comment on fed decisions here, but what are the rate hikes doing to your department's assessment of the economy?

MARTY WALSH, LABOR SECRETARY: I mean, again, I haven't seen what the impacts are. All I know is that every month, we're seeing more and more jobs added to the economy. We're seeing in different sectors growing and getting stronger. We still haven't seen some of these sectors responding. I mean, the hospitality and leisure hospitality sector is still way below where it was pre-pandemic. I don't know if that has any impact on what the Feds doing.

We're looking in government as well, particularly in local government in education. We're seeing those numbers have not returned to pre- pandemic levels. So there are certain sectors that haven't returned to where we were pre-pandemic. But, again, you know, the Fed is doing what they need to do --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

WALSH: -- to fight inflation. You know, we're living in a very interesting time here. You know, if we didn't have inflation, we'll find something else to talk about. But it would be great, because we're seeing salaries go up for employees in this country, we're seeing opportunities that people can get into better opportunities.

The President and his administration, investing in job training, workforce development, apprenticeship, we're seeing lots of opportunities for the future here for our workforce. The one is -- one thing is we have to bring those costs down, those inflationary pressures down and it has to be all government approach.

As you said, the Fed does their thing. I don't comment on Fed policy. It's not my place, but I'm doing everything we can in my role as the Secretary of Labor, working with the Treasury, in commerce and transportation, all the other departments to do everything we can to bring these costs down, these pressures down on families.

SCIUTTO: Listen, despite that mix of numbers and there are, it's a complicated picture, polls consistently show that voters trust Republicans more than Democrats on the economy by wide margins. And Democratic Party is preparing for a midterm election that may very well reflect that in the results. What do you say to voters who may be watching right now, who believe that Democrats failed to deliver on the economy?

WALSH: Well, I think you look at where we are in the economy right now. Since President Biden has taken office, the money and the investments that we're making in our country, in infrastructure, in broadbands, in lead pipes, in bringing back manufacturing jobs of United States of America, these are all things that the past administration talked about, and it didn't happen.

And we have crumbling roads and bridges in our country, we have crumbling rails in our country. The President is making investments in those areas right now, so that we can have a strong America moving forward. We invented the chip here in the United States of America, the microchip. We don't make any, we're going to be making them in America over the next five years, because we're building manufacturing plants here in the United States that will help us ease pressures.

The President took on pharmaceutical companies and in Inflation Reduction Act, he won, and we're going to bring cost down for insulin drugs and then combined what people pay out of pocket. So again, you know, this story needs to continue to be told, but this administration has done a lot of work to make sure we help American people. I understand --

SCIUTTO: OK.

WALSH: -- that inflation is the number one issue for a lot of families, and we're doing everything we can to bring those costs down as well.

SCIUTTO: OK, another issue. You were deeply involved in the 11th hour negotiations that averted narrowly a rail strike just last month, that deal now being --

WALSH: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- rejected by one of the unions themselves, others considering possibility of a rail strike, do you think railroads now need to sweeten the deal to avoid a strike, or do you want Congress to act?

SCIUTTO: No. My goal right now is to get the unions who -- two unions have rejected the deal. And my goal is to get those two unions back at the table of companies and get this thing done. I mean, the best thing we can do is avoid any type of rail strike or slowdown in the rail. We have six agreements that have been voted on in the affirmative by unions that passed it. We have four deals that are still out there. We're going to be getting the results, hopefully, the next week or so. The members are voting on it. We have two that got voted down. It's imperative that the companies and the union stay at the table and try and get in the deal so we can get that vote out there.

At the end of the day, if we don't have a deal, one of these unions for some reason doesn't get to an agreement with the company, then the way that the Railroad Act works is Congress will have to take action to avert a strike in our country. I personally think the best way to do it is by joining at the bargaining table and not having taken action by Congress.

SCIUTTO: But if need be, you're saying you would ask Congress to take action?

WALSH: They're going to -- they have to. That's part of the act. That's probably their responsibility, just like the president has the power to put in a presidential emergency board, which he did to come up and get this negotiation restarted, which the President did. If it wasn't for President Biden, this -- we probably would have been shut down months ago in this country.

Forget what I did a month and a half ago here at the Department of Labor. It would have been shut down long before that because both sides couldn't get to any agreement, any conversation.

SCIUTTO: We'll be watching closely. Secretary Marty Walsh, appreciate you taking the time this morning.

WALSH: Thank you.

[10:35:03]

SCIUTTO: The leader of the Oath Keepers Stewart Rhodes takes the stand in his own defense in his ongoing seditious conspiracy trial. What he's saying there, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Right now, the leader of the Oath Keepers is on the stand in the seditious conspiracy trial against him and four other members of their far-right group. Prosecutors say Stewart Rhodes called for a, quote, bloody revolution to keep then-President Donald Trump in power despite his loss in the election. He publicly urged Trump to invoke the insurrection act so he could deploy his militia.

[10:40:10]

Sara Sidner has been inside that courtroom. Rhodes, the first of the defendants to testify, I wonder what is he saying on the stand?

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There are so many things, it's hard to even get into. But so far, in the first 10 minutes of him taking the stand, he has choked up at least three times in front of the jury. This is a man remember who the defense is clearly trying to show his soft side, or maybe that's what he is trying to show. He's also talked a lot about historical things.

He was asked about, for example, 9/11. What that has to do with the attack on the Capitol is another thing but he was asked about 9/11, and he started to choke up and cry, talked about having colleagues he knew that were inside of the towers. He talked about him himself being a libertarian, having worked for Ron Paul, that he -- you know, he was really trying to show that this group that he formed, the Oath Keepers, which he formed in 2009 isn't, in his words, racist or anti- anything, anti-LGBTQ.

He talked about being at different areas and places. For example, he was invited, he said, to Lexington Green, where people came together after they were formed. And he started to cry on the stand talking about the historical issue that -- or incident that happened at the battle of Lexington Green. That is where the first shots of the American Revolution happened, for those who are unfamiliar.

And so, it was sort of meandering what we heard from him, but he was making some very clear points to the jury trying to set up that he is showing them that he's not racist. He's telling them that he is not anti-anything. And he talked about going, for example, to Ferguson, Missouri. And I remember seeing the Oath Keepers there in the death of Michael Brown who was shot by a Ferguson, Missouri Police officer and there were huge protests and some riots after that happened.

There, he said, he only went there to help protect businesses. He mentioned that they were black businesses. So he's setting the scene personally to show his personal side to show, if you will, his soft side. I don't think I have ever seen Stewart Rhodes or talked to him at any time where he choked up the way he has done on the stand in front of this jury. So clear, they're trying to set a scene about who he is personally, as they go forward.

They have not yet gotten into what happened on and right before January 6. They haven't talked anything about the plotting or the conspiracy that they're accused of. They really kind of set the scene for who he is in front of the jury.

SCIUTTO: We'll see what the impact is. Sara Sidner, good to have you there.

On to politics, CNN has learned that former President Trump could make an announcement about his 2024 plans in the third week of November. Last night, he teased a crowd in an Iowa rally about another White House bid. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I will very, very, very probably do it again, OK? Very, very, very probably.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Very, very, very probably. This comes as sources tell CNN exclusively, the Department of Justice officials are now actively discussing whether another Trump presidential run would then create the need for special counsel to oversee the multiple ongoing federal investigations into the former president.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz has been following this. Katelyn, I wonder they're clearly preparing for something quite unusual. Here's someone running for president under these kinds of investigations. So what do we know?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Jim, that's exactly right. Right now, what we have is table setting at the Justice Department. They are in this moment in time where they're not supposed to take steps that could upset the election next week or change anyone's vote. So they're doing a lot behind the scenes.

And what Evan Perez, Jeremy Herb and I have been able to nail down is what's going on behind the scenes are those shifting personnel. And there's also pretty high-level discussions about what to do about all of these investigations around Donald Trump specifically the Mar-a- Lago investigation and to the mishandling of federal records, possible national security details at Mar-a-Lago after the Trump presidency. And also January 6, what the President and other people were doing after the election to try and block the presidency of Joe Biden and delay Congress from certifying the election.

And so, the two things, one, you mentioned it, the Special Counsel. There is a possibility that the Justice Department will have serious needs to want to bring in a special counsel if Trump, if and when he announces to be a run for president. And then on top of that, there also are high level advisers coming in, one with an expertise in national security, one with an expertise in working with cooperators, in criminal investigations who've been tapped to help very high-level leaders at the Justice Department navigate the issues that come up with this Trump investigation.

[10:45:06]

So a lot of big decisions the attorney general could be making very soon after the ends. It's already been very busy behind the scenes. Jim?

SCIUTTO: To say the least. Thanks so much Katelyn Polantz for covering.

Well cramped cabins, nothing new on flights. I'm sure you've experienced them. But the FAA may be pumping the brakes on airlines plans to shrink seats, if you can believe it, even more. The news coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:50:13]

SCIUTTO: This just in to CNN, CNN learning that New Jersey officials have now identified and interviewed a suspect connected to those online threats elevating the alert around synagogues in New Jersey. The FBI identified posts in an online forum frequented by extremists as a credible threat after receiving a tip. That individual told authorities he does not like Jewish people and was very angry, however, indicated that he was not going to do anything harmful, the sources tell CNN.

It is unclear at this time what if any charges the individual may face. CNN has reached out to the FBI for comment.

Well, economic concerns appear to be having an impact on holiday shopping plans and industry forecast says that American families are expected to spend billions more this year than last. But they'll likely be tapping into savings and credit card accounts.

CNN's Matt Egan joins me live now. So more spending but, in effect, they're going to have to do a lot of it on debt and savings?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: That's right, Jim. You know, this holiday shopping season is probably going to look a little bit different. The National Retail Federation is projecting sales growth of 6 to 8 percent. Now, that's not too shabby. That's roughly in line with the last 10 years. But it is a big slowdown from the record of 13.5 percent last year.

And in many ways, it makes sense that people might chill out a bit with their spending this year. I mean, inflation is obviously very high. We have these recession fears and some companies, especially tech companies have been laying off workers. Now I think the good news is that the experts are expecting a lot of discounts here.

Retailers have a lot of stuff that they need to get rid of these high inventories. And so that does mean we're going to see some discounts. Adobe is actually calling for massive discounts online, especially for computers, electronics and toys. And a lot of retailers they kicked off this holiday shopping season early. They offer these Black Friday, like discounts starting in October.

The bad news, though, is that as we know, paychecks are not keeping up with the cost of living. And so, we are expecting that people are going to have to dip into savings this holiday season. And they're going to have to tap credit cards, and neither of those things are sustainable.

We have to also remember that right now, the Federal Reserve is rapidly raising interest rates to try to fight inflation. And so that has driven up credit card rates to near record highs. There's never a good time to carry over a credit card balance. But, Jim, in a lot of ways, this is probably the worst time to rack up a bunch of credit card debt because you splurged on, you know, Christmas gifts.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And those, listen, those rates, they go up quickly, man. They do not hold back when the overall rates are going up. Matt Egan, thanks so much.

EGAN: Thanks.

SCIUTTO: Well, the FAA is now considering whether to do something about the shrinking size of seats on commercial planes. We've all seen it. The review comes after the agency received more than 26,000 public comments about seat sizes, with many of them, understandably, begging for more room. CNN Aviation Correspondent Pete Muntean has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Luxury is what flying was supposed to be. But these days, legroom is shrinking as passengers are getting larger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Things are definitely getting too small on planes.

AMELIA MARTIN, PASSENGER: We're dying. And it doesn't matter what airline is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't imagine seats or aisles being smaller than they are today.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): Now, the Federal Aviation Administration is considering whether to stop airlines from making seats smaller.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Evacuate, evacuate. Leave everything. Come this way.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): The agency is under a congressional mandate to study whether seat size could slow an evacuation. But in 26,000 public comments, many focused on comfort.

PAUL HUDSON, PRESIDENT, FLYERSRIGHTS: The idea is that the more people you can jam into a plane, the more money you'll make.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): FlyersRights President Paul Hudson says airlines are trying to squeeze out more profit. This week, six U.S. Senators told the FAA to act urgently and not wait for seats to get any smaller. So I decided to put airlines to the test.

(on-camera): Two things necessary for this little experiment of our own, a ticket and a tape measure.

(voice-over): On this United Airlines Flight, legroom was right at the industry standard, 30 inches, but it all depends on the airline. Legroom can get even tighter on ultra-low-cost carriers. 27 inches is what we saw on this Allegiant Airlines Flight.

FlyersRights proposes a minimum of 32 inches legroom and seats that are wider. Dimensions it says would fit 90 percent of Americans.

HUDSON: That would make a huge difference.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): In its comment to the FAA, the airline industry's top lobby said it would not compromise on safety but told the government to stay out of regulating passenger comfort. The FAA and the Department of Transportation declined our interview requests.

[10:55:10]

PETER GOELZ, FORMER NTSB MANAGING DIRECTOR: Their position to date has been how uncomfortable you are, is between you and the air carrier.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MUNTEAN: One airline is making changes when it comes to seat size. You might be surprised to learn, Jim, that Spirit Airlines says it will increase seat size on some of the new planes that it is buying. Thinner seats that will lead to an extra 2 inches of legroom, clearly --

SCIUTTO: Wow.

MUNTEAN: -- something to watch here, whether or not the FAA act. Remember, more space on board a plane, could mean a more expensive ticket, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, goodness. It would be nice to be able to cross your legs though every once in a while. I'm sure you've experienced that as well.

Pete Muntean, thanks so much.

MUNTEAN: Yes.

SCIUTTO: And thanks so much all of you for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciutto. At This Hour with Kate Bolduan starts right after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)