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Misinformation and Disinformation on Election Day; GOP Casting Doubt on Midterm Results; Twitter Asks Fired Workers to Come Back; Iowa Teen Escapes from Custody; Kyiv Faces Water, Power and Heating Outages. Aired 9:30-10a ET
Aired November 07, 2022 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:30:00]
DONIE O'SULLIVAN: Yes. So the difference between mis and disinformation is that misinformation is, you know, people might share false information mistakenly, by accident. Disinformation is false information that is created to deceive.
We had a good example of misinformation on Election Day 2016 when a guy who had a problem voting in Philadelphia -- in Pennsylvania. He just tweeted a picture, a video of his voting machine, and he claimed that it wouldn't allow him to vote for Trump. That video went super viral. People said, you know, cheating, et cetera. But we tracked him down. We spoke to him. He said, well, oh, actually, yes, when -- after I posted that, I asked an election worker. They helped me out. I wasn't using the machine - I was using the machine falsely. And he was quite upset that his video was being used in a way to undermine election integrity. So it's just a good reminder that, you know, while you might have good intentions while you're posting on social media, it can be weaponized.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, disinformation is deliberate. One of the most sort of sad phenomenons, right, is in 2016, most of that disinformation came from outside the country. Now, sadly, a lot of it comes deliberately from inside this country.
So, tell us just how quickly this kind of thing can spread on social media.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes, well, I want to show you this - the part of a video of so-called burning ballots, right? On Election Day 2020 we saw this video circulate all online of -- that supposedly showed ballots for Trump being burned. Even the then president's son, Eric Trump, shared it. It was totally false. It was disinformation created to deceive. But just a couple of days later, we were in Pennsylvania and we spoke to a voter who believed the election was stolen. And one of the first reasons she said why was that video.
Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've seen too much pieces of different evidence so far that shows that at this point I would be OK with a revote.
O'SULLIVAN: Really?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Absolutely. When you have video footage of people taking bags of ballots and showing that they are for Donald Trump and lighting them on fire --
O'SULLIVAN: I helped write a fact check on CNN on that particular video. The election officials said that video has been going around for a few days. They are printout ballots. They are not real ballots. They're saying --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you used the information of the election officials?
O'SULLIVAN: Somebody like me comes along, tries to research it, tries to fact check it, and then I fact check it, you'll come back and say, well, the election officials would say that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But wouldn't they, though? That's the thing, though. Question everything, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'SULLIVAN: Yes, and that was November 2020. Of course, it was a sign of things to come. But, look, there are going to be problems at some of the polls tomorrow. We're going to hear about them. We're going to report on them. But also just be very, very mindful that people are trying to mislead and trying to paint a picture of - a far more chaotic picture than might actually be the reality.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, there's misinformation, disinformation and then there's Donie information, and that's - that's stuff, in my experience, you can trust.
Donie. Donie O'Sullivan.
HILL: I'll sign up for that one.
SCIUTTO: Thanks so much.
O'SULLIVAN: Thanks, guys.
SCIUTTO: Joining us now to discuss, David Gergen, former adviser to just four former presidents, Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton.
David, always good to have you.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Thank you, Jim. Good to be with you.
SCIUTTO: Listen, to Donie's report there, disinformation is a real issue. And, of course, the principal form of disinformation, right, is 2020 election denialism. And you have a lot of candidates on the ballot, many of whom are going to win tomorrow who still deny the results of that election. So that's a real danger, it's a real problem.
I wonder, though, in terms of a winning message, was the democracy in peril message very well -- may very well be substantial, right, but was it the winning political message for this cycle or should democrats have focused more on the economy?
GERGEN: Definitely should have focused more on the economy. Listen, I'm among those who really worry about the threats to our democracy that have arisen. But when it comes right down to it in the voting booth, people are looking at questions of (INAUDIBLE) - and they're looking at questions of, you know, cost of gas and how much for groceries they keep (INAUDIBLE) and where is this all going. It seems to be -- we seem to be on the precipice or edge of a potentially deep recession. And I think that's having an enormous impact.
But I'll say one other thing. What's also very disturbing is that this campaign, this strategy of disinformation on the Republican side seems to be working.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
GERGEN: You know, the pendulum, it swung out there for a while, favored the Democrats. It swung back pretty sharply. And I think a lot of that comes from the fact that all of this disinformation that's being deliberately spread around, if you can find it, Jim, is having an effect.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HILL: There's also the very real possibility, based on what we're seeing, that there could be a significant number of election deniers who could win their races.
GERGEN: Yes.
HILL: Who could now be in power.
GERGEN: Absolutely.
HILL: How much appetite is there within the party - I think I know the answer, I'm just curious your take -- how much appetite is there within the party, the Republican Party, to actually push back on that and to call them out, especially after they're - you know, if they're now, let's say, in the House sitting next to non-election denier Republicans, how does that play out?
[09:35:09]
GERGEN: It plays out, I'm afraid, that if this is a big night for Republicans, and they think it's going to be, that Donald Trump - it will be a major, major victory for Donald Trump and for his -- his followers will be greatly energized if they come up with anything like the kind of victory -- you know, if they turn two or three or four seats in the Senate, they control the Senate, they control the House, that's going to be seen -- it's going to be hard to stop Trump within the Republican Party. He will be in effect the very likely nominee of the party if they have a good night tomorrow night.
SCIUTTO: What does that mean, then, for the Biden agenda if Republicans win both or just one, frankly, house of Congress, the House, which seems to be most likely, is the Biden agenda dead in the water?
GERGEN: It's dead in the water for getting much done. It's not that the ideas will disappear. And Biden may make a comeback. But I -- you know, Jim, I think he -- if this does not come out well for the Democrats tomorrow night, then Biden is going to be under some growing pressure to step back and to look at who else might be available (INAUDIBLE).
SCIUTTO: Yes.
GERGEN: I mean he needs this victory as much as Trump does.
HILL: Do you think there's still room for surprises tomorrow, David?
SCIUTTO: Yes.
GERGEN: Yes, I do. And I'm glad -- really glad you brought that up. I do think there are some individual states that could surprise us. Say in North Carolina, it could surprise the Democrats and capture that black woman running that race, Beasley, who's run a good race. There are some others out there that -- in Ohio, I think, that - I wouldn't count out Ryan against Vance. Everybody thinks Vance is going to win this. Ryan is complaining that he's upended (ph). But even so, Ryan is still, I think, competitive.
So, I would say - you know, I can't -- frankly, I can't remember an election with so many undecided, so many close calls, so many ones that are unpredictable.
SCIUTTO: Yes, it's a good point. I mean, listen, that's the one constant in elections, recent cycles, right, is that there are surprises.
GERGEN: Yes.
HILL: Yes.
SCIUTTO: You say if Republicans win this will be seen in the party, and by Trump himself, as a win for Trump. You've worked with a lot of presidents. You've seen a lot of politicians come and go. Are you surprised that less than two years after January 6th, after the Senate majority -- or minority leader, I should say, Mitch McConnell, said on the floor that Trump was responsible, the Republican speaker said Trump was responsible, that he would have had such a comeback?
GERGEN: I'm hugely surprised. And it -- I think it says something about Trump, but it also says something about the hunger for -- among voters for something different, for something that actually works in their lives. And they will forgive Trump, it appears, on a variety of different fronts if he can deliver in getting the inflation rate (INAUDIBLE) the job rates up. (INAUDIBLE) under control. He is seen, you know -- Democrats generally are given more confidence votes for their capacity to deal with the economy. And I think here, though, it's because of Trump's strength, his personal strength and it's the fact he's so defiant so often is somehow he appeals to a segment of the voters in this country that many of us don't know. You know, they're not particularly (INAUDIBLE) on our set and we find it confusing and uncertain. It's almost as if we could wake up Wednesday morning and wonder what country we're living in.
SCIUTTO: Wise analysis.
David Gergen, as always, thanks so much.
GERGEN: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Still ahead this hour, a source tells CNN that Elon Musk will now delay the new pay model for those Twitter blue checks until after -- at least until after Election Day. Why?
And Musk's new promise to make Twitter the, quote, most accurate source of information about the world.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:43:43]
SCIUTTO: Well, just days after Twitter's new owner Elon Musk laid off thousands of the company's employees, "Bloomberg News" is now reporting that Twitter is actually asking some of those fired workers, just days ago mind you, to come back.
HILL: According to the report, some of those employees were apparently let go by mistake and they're desperately needed right now to keep the company running.
CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans joining us now.
I mean, this is a big oops.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it sounds like the wild west over there at Twitter, doesn't it? I mean this is an erstwhile owner, Elon Musk, the world's richest man, who wanted to buy it, then didn't want to buy it, then reluctantly bought it and now is really changing it. And we're starting to see what - what it's going to look like, Twitter will look like under Elon Musk.
Look, huge cuts to its public policy in trust and safety teams. Turns out, you know, as the new day dawned they need some of those people. They also started to realize they cut people who could eventually be helpful in some of these projects that Elon Musk has hinted that he wants to do in the future, some kind of new avenues for Twitter. So they're trying to say, hey, can you come back?
They just cut so far and so deep, whole teams were eliminated, by the way. Some of them with important roles in election coverage. So, just days before an election, you've got all these people whose job it was to curate the content, to make sure you elevate real things and downplay things that are fake and misinformation, those people lost their jobs.
[09:45:10]
SCIUTTO: Musk also tweeted this morning, quoting here, that Twitter needs to become by far the most accurate source of information about the world. That is our mission.
How does he plan to deliver on that plan?
ROMANS: That is the million -- or the $44 billion question in this case. At this point it feels as though they're going backwards before going forwards.
One of the things he is talking about doing because the company is losing he says something like $4 million a day, he says that he's going to charge $7.99 for a verification - for paid verification of a Twitter account. So, over the weekend, all these people were, you know, impersonating him and impersonating other people trying to show that you just can't buy, you know, legitimacy on this site if that's what he is planning on doing. They've now paused that, we're told, until after the election.
So, again, just the wild west. Total chaos. You know, I read one quote, a media watcher saying that this is an Elon Musk category five hurricane inside Twitter right now. And Twitter is an information source. A place -- you know, a social center, a town hall, if you will, where people turn to for information about things like elections. So, it's a really unfortunate time.
HILL: Just -- and it doesn't sound like there is -- it doesn't sound like that cat five is calming down anytime soon with so much uncertainty and the way decisions are being made.
SCIUTTO: No.
ROMANS: No.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HILL: Good luck to them. I have to say, this is (ph) not happening.
SCIUTTO: It's their plan, right? I mean it's their management plan as far as -
HILL: It doesn't seem there is.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
ROMANS: And will people pay - and will people pay $8 for that blue check? You know, the blue check, which is supposed to, I thought, always meant, oh, that really is Erica Hill or Jim Sciutto or Christine Romans. That is an actual verified person. Can you just sell that legitimacy to anybody? Is that the business model?
HILL: Right. ROMANS: And how does that help democracy and making sure, as he said in his mission here, that he wants the most accurate source of information in the world.
HILL: Yes, and that's what you saw over the weekend, absolutely. It will be really interesting to see how this plays out.
Well, we have another couple days now to keep thinking about it.
Christine, appreciate it. Thanks.
Right now, authorities are searching for an Iowa teenager convicted of killing her alleged rapist when she was just 15 years old.
SCIUTTO: Officials say now 18-year-old Pieper Lewis escaped from custody Friday after cutting off her electronic tracking device. She was serving five years probation at a residential corrections facility after she pled guilty to killing 37-year-old Zachary Brooks.
CNN's Adrienne Broaddus joins us now.
Adrienne, tell us the latest on the search. Any idea of where she is and what happens if and when she's found?
ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Authorities don't know where she is right now, Jim. She walked away Friday morning, according to a spokesperson with the department of corrections in that region. As you mentioned, she cut off her ankle monitor.
So, what's next? Well, right now there is a warrant out for her arrest and authorities are requesting that her probation, which she was serving, as you mentioned, be revoked.
Here is a little more details about this case.
She is now 18. She had a birthday in September. She was 15 when she admitted to killing a man who she says was raping her repeatedly. That man was a 37-year-old. She was sentenced to five years probation. And this is a story that captured attention of people all across the country, in particular because of this last sentence on your screen. She was ordered to pay $150,000 restitution to the family of her alleged rapist. Many supporters of hers said that was unfair and that, in her case, justice was not served. There was a Go Fund Me account created raising thousands of dollars to help this teenager who now is missing.
Jim and Erica.
HILL: Adrienne Broaddus, we know you'll continue to keep us posted on this. Thank you.
Still to come here, Ukraine's capital preparing for the, quote, worst- case scenario if continued Russian attacks leave the city with no power or no water. We're live on the ground for you in Ukraine, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [09:53:45]
HILL: This morning, fears of a complete blackout in Ukraine's capital of Kyiv are growing. Officials are warning the country is facing further power cuts, both scheduled and unscheduled, due to damage from ongoing Russian attacks on power plants and critical infrastructure.
SCIUTTO: Yes, these are deliberate attacks designed to impose suffering on the people.
CNN's Salma Abdelaziz is live near the eastern front line of Kramatorsk, Ukraine.
Salma, I wonder what you're seeing there?
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just to clarify, I'm actually in Kyiv, in the capital. And it's here that millions of people have been without power for hours at a time every single day. The officials here have imposed these scheduled blackouts. They last about three to four hours. There's a couple of them every day. And then there's emergency blackouts as well. So, it's not uncommon to hear of a family here in the capital that goes half a day without any electricity, without being able to heat their homes or make a warm meal and it is getting colder and colder by the day.
Now the mayor of Kyiv saying they have to prepare for the worst case scenario, the potential that essentially all of the city's energy infrastructure could collapse because of this sustained campaign by Russia to dismantle Kyiv's power grid with these missiles that keep coming.
So, in that scenario, they're setting up emergency space where's families could go that would be powered by generators.
[09:55:04]
They're also telling people, if your family is outside of Kyiv, maybe consider staying with them if they have running electricity. They're trying to conserve energy as much as possible where they can, when they can. The mayor saying he believes that President Putin wants people to freeze to death this winter.
But I also want to point out that many Ukrainians see this also as a weakness from President Putin, the fact that he's targeting soft targets, like civilian infrastructure, trying to inflict suffering far, far from the front lines, trying to break the will in the resistance of the Ukrainian people and they say it's not going to work. Yes, we are suffering, yes, this is difficult, yes, we are in the cold and in the dark of this winter, but that only makes us stronger.
Jim and Erica.
SCIUTTO: Salma Abdelaziz, in the capital of Kyiv, not Kramatorsk, thanks very much. Still ahead this hour, coming hour, on the eve of Election Day in this country, CNN has learned more than 3,400 mail-in ballots in the battleground state of Pennsylvania, seen as one of the most hotly contested of Senate races in the nation, are at risk now of being rejected. Why? We're going to be live there with the latest.
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