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Democrats Defy History with Only Modest Losses; Reports From Newly Liberated Ukrainian Town. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired November 11, 2022 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:30:00]

FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Max Foster. If you are just joining us, do let me bring you up to date with the top stories this hour.

Control of the U.S. Congress still up in the air as vote counting continues into the weekend across several states. Republicans seem to be close to taking the House with a majority. But it may take weeks to decide the Senate with a crucial runoff vote set for next month in Georgia.

NOBILO: So, let's take a look at the historical importance of this midterm not being a red wave. Most of the time the sitting president's party loses ground in midterm elections. History certainly seems adamant that the opposing party will win the national popular vote for the U.S. House and gain seats there but as with any rule, there are exceptions.

So, let's look back at the key shifts against previous presidents during the midterms. Now according to data from the Brookings Institution in 1994 here President Clinton lost 54 seats to the Republicans under what was called a revolution. Now who can forget in 2010 when President Obama lost a whopping 63 seats to Republicans as the Tea Party handed the Democrats a shellacking. Now speaking to Democratic campaign workers on Thursday, President Biden said this midterm defied history and the pundits. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Here's what we do know. We lost fewer seats in the House of Representatives than any Democratic president first elected midterms in at least 40 years. We had the best midterms for governors since 1986. And experts said we couldn't beat the odds but we did beat the odds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Joining us from New York is CNN presidential historian Tim Naftali. He teaches history and public service at New York University and is the former director of the Nixon Presidential Library. Thank you so much for joining us.

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: My pleasure. FOSTER: It's for the likes of you to decide, you know, how this

election will go down in history. Where would you place it?

NAFTALI: Well, it's a reminder of the extraordinary times that we live in. A president has not done this well in his first midterm since George W. Bush after 9/11 or John F. Kennedy after the Cuban Missile Crisis. President Biden's polling numbers, his personal popularity was so low and inflation was so high that most analysts assumed, and the Republican Party assumed, that there would be a red wave. That the Republicans would not only take over the House but they would win 30 to 40 seats at least and that they would take over the Senate. And they may still take over the Senate and if they do it will be 51/49, but we're not there yet.

And yes, they'll probably take the House, but they might only have a majority of 4 or 5 seats. So, what has happened here is the American people have shown that they are moved by issues other than inflation. That the Supreme Court decision in Dobbs which made abortion illegal throughout the lands, a federal issue, it's now up to the states to determine. That has had an enormous effect in getting out the vote for the president's party.

The reason that midterms generally spell bad news for a president is that his party -- someday hers -- his party is not as energized to get out to vote. And that's why, first of all, Americans don't usually vote in large numbers in midterms. This particular midterms we saw record numbers of people voting in a midterm in the battleground states. That was unusual. It's because in this case there are issues that are motivating Democrats to vote, Dobbs, dislike of Trump, concerns about democracy that many pollsters underestimated when they were thinking about what would have happened or what was going to happen on Tuesday.

NOBILO: Tim, lots more to ask you. If we could ask you to kind of stand by for a second because we have some breaking news out of Ukraine.

[04:35:00]

CNN has just arrived in a Ukrainian town that's been liberated from Russian troops over the past 48 hours. And Nic Robertson joins us now from Snihurivka, Ukraine. The first time I'm seeing that. He's currently the only journalist reporting from there. And Nic, tell us about where you are and what's happening right now.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It's quite incredible. Everyone's telling us we are the first reporters here. Literally the Ukrainian troops only arrived here yesterday and liberated the town. The Russians left two days before. As you drive into town here, everyone's waving, everyone's happy. People we talked to here have horror stories to tell about the treatment by the Russians particularly over the last few days.

I'll give you an idea what you're seeing behind me. You see a couple of young teenagers here with Ukrainian flags on their shoulders. They were the first to raise the flag when the Russians left even before the troops arrived. So, sort of a pre-liberation by teenagers here. And they tell us that a month ago somebody had been shot here, shot and killed for raising a Ukrainian flag.

And in the middle of the crowd here everyone is gathered. We're sort of in the center of the town outside of the administrative buildings here. That's the regional governor. He's just visiting here. He's just arrived in the last few minutes. He's explaining to people how they're going to get support from the Ukrainian government in the coming days, that they're going to be bringing humanitarian aid, supplies and support into the town here.

But the situation for people here is really difficult. There's no electricity. There's no gas. So, they've had a very difficult time just in terms of surviving under the Russians. But what's happened in this town over the past few days is the Russians the past couple of weeks, as the Russians knew that they were going to pull out. There was widespread looting. Vehicles looted. We've been to the bank here. It's completely ran sacked and looted.

The police station here we're told was used as a base of torture. That people would be taken in here and tortured. And if they want to extract more information, then they would take the 45 kilometers on to Kherson. I spoke to a young girl here -- and I'm telling you a lot of things here, because everyone wants to talk. Everyone you speak to at the roadside wants to talk.

This young lady, 15 years old, she told me, her mother confirmed her story, that in the past few days of the Russians being here, she was taken away, kidnapped, a hood put over her head. She told us she was afraid of being raped. She was only released yesterday.

This is a town that is only just now getting to grips with the idea of liberation, of what it means to be free, of what it means not to have Russian rule here. And I think people are -- in all of it we've seen people on the streets, meeting friends they haven't seen for a long time, hugging each other in tears.

But I think also there's a sense of, OK, what's going to happen now? We're free and we're liberated. And I want to give you a slightly bigger sense of the town and from the crowd. (INAUDIBLE) road here as doing, Max.

This is a very small town. And one of the things you notice here is that there are very few cars on the road. Look just down the street here and if you could see, that's sort of looking into town here. There are very few cars because the Russians looted so many of them. That's what people here are telling us. There were some army soldiers around, but mostly what we're seeing is that the troops are pushing forward. This area is liberated and they're now moving more towards Kherson.

I think what we're going to see here is going to be replicated through these areas as Ukrainian forces move in and liberate them here. I'd love to be able to talk more with the people in the crowd here on camera with you but very few people here speak particularly good English for me to interview them. But the conversations we've had here at the side of the road is

relief. It is the sense that they are free again and wanting to tell us the difficult times that they had under Russians. Another lady we stopped to and talked to in the market was literally in tears. She just didn't know what to say about having the fears lifted from her of, you know, possibly being picked up on the streets. So, it's really for people here now really just a sense of relief and coming to terms with a new reality.

FOSTER: And it's incredible to see the reaction there, isn't it? It says so much about the situation, where the loyalties continue to lie there. But what are your thoughts --

[04:40:00]

ROBERTSON: Thank you, thank you very much. Thank you, thank you very much. People are just genuinely -- I mean, it's rare that you walk into a town and people are genuinely so happy to see you. I mean, you do become overwhelmed with the situation, but the sadness, the happiness, too.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Everyone is so pleased and happy. This is a new time and new chapter for them.

FOSTER: How quickly do you think you'll be moving, Nic? It seems to us you really tell people when you arrive in these places, not what your plans are. It seems as though the military is moving quickly towards Kherson. Is it your feeling they are into Kherson now?

ROBERTSON: We understand they're moving carefully and cautiously. You know, we have traveled a long roads here through checkpoints or past checkpoints with blown out military vehicles with mortar shells, large mortar shells scattered among the military vehicles. So, even the roads in and out of your they clearly also been mined in the past. Those mines have been removed.

But really this population here, you can't sort of yet really connect safely with the rest of Ukraine. They're still sort of isolated here. So, I think you'll see the military come back and make the roads into here more secure. But right now, yes, they are focused and we saw a lot of troops this morning in small groups moving out down further down the road. So, I think what you are going to see them is moving further and further towards Kherson as they try to take control there.

FOSTER: I'm looking, Nic, at the smiling faces behind you. What's life been like for them in recent months? You know, what must this feel like to them?

ROBERTSON: Well, it's been one of exceptional uncertainty. Because they've been very, very close to the front line. Some of the city has been damaged through shelling but not much. There's been uncertainty about food supplies coming in. This is one of the things Russians have said about Kherson, that they couldn't get adequate food supplies in.

And of course, people here relied on those supplies. The market, the shops, we've only seen one shop that was open and the rest -- the other place for people to buy food is literally stalls at the side of the road. They're not sort of market stores as you and I would know them perhaps in England or Paris or wherever, they are just benches with a few products on for people to buy. So, it's been very tough.

But it's clear when you speak to people how emotionally difficult it's been to not know if you are going to be taken away for questioning and possible torture. And that has happened we're told. That has happened to a lot of people here, that they had been taken away. And some of them haven't come back. So, this has been this uncertainty here for people.

I think that perhaps, you know, that uncertainty under the Russians and what they say happened in the last two weeks, was when the Russians realized they were leaving, they bought in -- there were Chechens who came in. People have told is here the level of violence for the population went up, the level of looting went up. So, the past couple of weeks when it looked like Ukrainian forces were going to come in have been exceptionally precarious.

And then when one tries to pop one's self in the position that people here must have gone through, of not knowing if they were going to be safe. If when they went out to get some bread or whatever they did, that they were going to be able to get back home. And these are the experiences people are sharing with us here, that level of uncertainty has just worn on people.

And there's a relief here but I'm not sure that people here -- they know that they're free but you know, it's still very muted. This is still a very quiet place. I think there's a lot of emotions that are still suppressed here -- Max.

FOSTER: Nic, thank you so much. And I can only imagine what's going through their minds, can't you?

NOBILO: Yes, the best we can do is just seeing the looks on their faces, which is quite incredible to see Nic there and how delighted they are, to be able to share their relief and joy with him and with whoever is watching.

FOSTER: And the history for that area. Something you only get on CNN, those moments when we are pushing together with the military and opening up those areas. So, we'll be back with Nic throughout the day.

[04:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOBILO: Welcome back. We want to bring our guest CNN presidential historian Tim Naftali back on the midterm elections. We were speaking to him just before we went to Nic Robertson on the ground outside of Kherson.

Tim, let me ask you, because one of the main arguments that the Democrats were pushing in these midterms was the fact that democracy itself was on the ballot. It was in peril. From the longitudinal historical perspective, was that true? NAFTALI: Well, what we've seen is a huge turnout in many of the

battleground states and it shows that both parties wanted to participate in the democratic process. The concern for many Democrats and others was that the election deniers -- these are people believe that the 2020 election actually was won by Donald Trump and not by Joe Biden -- that those deniers would win. Some of them did win but most of them have not done well in the positions that might affect future elections. So, in many ways democracy did extraordinarily well, not only by the participation of people, but by the fact that election deniers who could have been very powerful in certain states lost on Tuesday.

FOSTER: In terms of what's going to happen now, we were talking a bit earlier about the deadlock that will effectively happen in Washington if Republicans take the House but also if they take the Senate as well. What does that mean for the wider world? Does that mean that big decisions just won't be taken which will affect the world?

NAFTALI: If the Senate stays with the Democrats, I think we can expect the U.S. commitment to the war in Ukraine to continue. The House is going to be a problem for the president regardless of the size of the mandate that the Republicans get. But for the world, the fact that Donald Trump and Trumpist and election deniers did not do as well as they expected is a good sign for those who are worried about extreme nationalism around the world.

[04:50:00]

Trumpism is now under some pressure by Republicans in the United States because this midterm should have been a cake walk for Republicans and it wasn't. So, I think for the world the weakening of Donald Trump is an excellent sign. Joe Biden has his challenges ahead of him but he will still face a much easier Congress to deal with than we expected on Tuesday.

NOBILO: And Tim, like you said as far as the Republicans are concerned, it should have been a cake walk. One state which seem to be anomalous only look at the midterms, was Florida. And Ron DeSantis is really roaring into the public consciousness globally as well. People are starting to pay attention to him. In terms of electability and looking ahead to 2024, when we look at DeSantis, he's Yale, Harvard educated, military background, family man. Perhaps more acceptable face of certain, you know, Trumpist values. What do you think his chances are at becoming the nominee?

NAFTALI: Well, his chances are much better than they were on Tuesday. He's not a very charismatic man. I'm not sure that he will excite voters in the same way that Donald Trump did on the right. But what's very important now is to see the extent to which Trump and DeSantis go head to head. Donald Trump has been acting like DeSantis is his main opponent. DeSantis has not been acting as if Trump is his main opponent. DeSantis was focused on winning big in Florida.

Over the next few weeks, we'll see how DeSantis starts to play the game. If big donors move towards DeSantis, I'm thinking of Republican donors, that's going to make 2024 much more interesting. So, a lot of important stuff is going to happen behind the scenes. Let's see where the money goes.

NOBILO: Tim Naftali, thank you so much for joining us and getting up early.

FOSTER: We'll be back in just a moment.

[04:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: After nearly 20-year quest an archaeologist believes she may be close to locating the lost tomb of Egyptian Queen Cleopatra. Kathleen Martinez tell CNN her team uncovered tunnels beneath an Egyptian temple that led to the Mediterranean Sea and sunken treasures. And she says her excavation revealed a collection of coins portraying Cleopatra and Alexander the Great, a huge religious center and more than 1,500 objects, plus statues and golden pieces. And now -- I mean, everyone wants this to be true.

NOBILO: Yes, it would be the archaeological discovery of the 21st century.

FOSTER: Why?

NOBILO: Well, we are 100 years of the discovery of Tutankhamun's tomb. So, this would be the next big one. Because the death of Cleopatra is legendary. You know, supposedly she committed suicide by snake, why experts are skeptical, in her own mausoleum with her lover.

FOSTER: Only she could talk to us about this.

NOBILO: Yes, but it could be big news. So, stay tuned for that.

FOSTER: Thanks for joining us here on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Max Foster.

NOBILO: And I'm Bianca Nobilo amateur archaeologist. CNN "THIS MORNING" With Don Lemon, Poppy Harlow and Kaitlan Collins is next.