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CNN Projects Democrats Will Keep the Senate; Kherson Residents Celebrate City's Liberation; Biden in Asia; Control of U.S. House of Representatives Still Undecided; COP27 Summit Looks at Climate Change Loss and Damage. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired November 13, 2022 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hello and welcome to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Michael Holmes. Appreciate your company.

CNN now predicts Democrats will hold onto their control of the U.S. Senate for the next two years, a stunning turnaround from the dire predictions of the Republican red wave just a week ago.

The critical moment came a few hours ago, when Nevada's Senate race was called for Democratic incumbent Catherine Cortez Masto. After the milestone was reached, here's what U.S. President Joe Biden said from the summit in Cambodia.

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JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's a reflection of the quality of our candidates. And they're all running on the same program. Wasn't anybody who wasn't running on what we did. They're all sticking with it. So I feel good and I'm looking forward to the next couple years.

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HOLMES: Now by claiming at least 50 seats, Democrats will control the Senate, with the vice president casting any tiebreaking votes. But Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer says the vote result should send a clear message to Republicans.

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SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MAJORITY LEADER: The American people rejected soundly rejected the anti-Democratic, authoritarian, nasty and divisive direction the MAGA Republicans wanted to take our country in.

And I'm making a plea to my Republican colleagues; we can disagree on so many issues. That's fair. But let's not have this kind of divisive negativity. Let's not have the condemnation of viciousness and even violence against poll workers against so many others. Let us try to come together.

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HOLMES: We want to take you straight to Nevada, where CNN's Rosa Flores has the very latest from Las Vegas.

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ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The stakes were high, the margins were razor thin but, in the end, the Democratic incumbent prevailed. Catherine Cortez Masto gets to stay as the senator from the state of Nevada.

And with that, the Democrats get to keep and maintain control of the U.S. Senate. Here's how it all went down.

The Republican, Adam Laxalt, was in the lead for days and then, on Saturday evening, Clark County released a batch of about 23,000 votes. And here is how those votes were divided.

Catherine Cortez Masto receiving about 14,000 of those votes or 60 percent of the vote. Laxalt received more than 8,000 votes or about 35 percent of that batch. Now that put Catherine Cortez Masto in the lead and CNN called the race at that point in time.

Her campaign taking to Twitter, saying, quote, "What did people get wrong about this race?

"The first Latina senator knows her community better than anonymous sources. The daughter of a Teamster knows how to fight for working families. And CCM's -- or Catherine Cortez Masto's -- a former AG and crime attacks couldn't stick."

Again, the Democrat here, Catherine Cortez Masto, keeps her seat and stays a senator of Nevada -- Rosa Flores, CNN, Las Vegas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: As Republican fortunes fade following the midterms, Donald Trump and his supporters continue to try to cast doubt on the integrity of the voting process. The former president posting on his social media site a baseless claim that election officials in Nevada were "finding all sorts of ballots to steal the election" from Adam Laxalt.

Nevada election officials dismissed that as utter nonsense. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE GARCIA, CLARK COUNTY REGISTRAR OF VOTERS: We're taking ballots in that we're required to take in, according to the law. There's no way that we could find ballots. They're brought here by the United States Postal Service. As long as it's postmarked, we process those ballots and put them in the count.

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HOLMES: Earlier I spoke with CNN senior political analyst David Gergen to get his thoughts on the election.

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DAVID GERGEN, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: This has been a remarkably good election and I think the message is that Americans are exhausted with a lot of the polarization and the poison that's in our system.

And they understood that extremism was taking over our politics.

[02:05:00]

GERGEN: And this was a response. This was a rejection of extremism. The voters said it loud and clear all across the country. And I think that's very good for democracy in America.

It's not very good for the Republican Party but maybe it will wake them up to the fact that they're going down the wrong lane. They've been rejected two elections in a row now, 2018, 2020 and now 2022; three elections, really -- that they've been shown, you know, you can't win with this Trumpian polarization. It's just not working.

People see through it. And that's -- you know, frankly, that's healthy.

HOLMES: To that point, I mean and it's an important point, before the midterms, the election was largely couched as a referendum on Joe Biden, the economy.

But as you point out, did it end up being a referendum on, yes, abortion rights in many cases but on Donald Trump, him personally but also Trumpism, denialism, the extreme positions of some candidates, which Trump fostered?

GERGEN: Oh, I think absolutely. And Donald Trump, you know, you can't say it any other way. He is, every time he gets out, he tells us how he's in charge, he's responsible, he's the guy choosing the candidates. And he chose some lousy candidates.

The Republicans should have done a lot better. They should, under normal circumstances, they would have gained 20, 25 seats. Joe Biden has had the best midterm, first term of his office, best midterms in over 20 years. You have to go back some.

So he -- Biden deserves a lot of credit for this. But there's no question that this was a bad night for Donald Trump. And I no longer think he's invincible within the Republican Party. Republicans may be crazy sometimes but they're not stupid. They don't --

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HOLMES: So you think this is, you know, the end or, at least, the beginning of the end for Donald Trump, given the midterm performance of Republicans and also combined with the bright spot, if you like, performance of Florida's Ron DeSantis?

GERGEN: Absolutely. Well, I do think that the DeSantis profile has just shot up. It's gone skyward. Here's a man who is very well educated. And he's been a very shrewd governor of Florida.

But for a Republican governor to win every single county in Florida, it's just absolutely remarkable. So he's very much in the hunt and that's going to set up a DeSantis versus Trump-- you know, there's going to be a showdown in the party.

There are going to be some showdowns in the Democratic side, between the progressives and the more traditional people there. A lot of the traditionalists feel, had Biden not gotten himself back to center left, instead of being further out, you know, he wouldn't have pulled this off.

HOLMES: Yes, that's a great point. Progressives did well on the Left, as well. So you have a strong performance by Democrats, a failure on the Republican side, in judging the electorate.

But it's true, is it not, that it doesn't matter how close it is, Biden won't get anything passed legislatively in the House if it's in Republican hands, right?

What does that mean for his agenda?

GERGEN: Yes, that's a very, very good question because even though -- the Democrats have done really well. Republicans have done lousy. But if you think of what's going to happen in the next two years, the truth is, these midterm elections will make it harder to govern, because it's going to be so close in each chamber.

It appears that the House will go to Republicans at this point. There are some 2 dozen seats that are still -- that haven't been called for the House of Representatives. And if they split evenly, Republicans would win the House and have maybe a tiny margin of three, four votes.

So that's a big deal. But I want to go back to this question of governance. You know, we've seen in the U.K. now how, with the decline of democracy and the rise of polarization and poison, how ungovernable Britain has become here recently.

Well, America was heading in the same direction. This gives -- this midterm election provides a glimmer of hope. It does not solve problems. It does not solve the problem of governance. But it gives a glimmer of hope that we will pull back together and end the madness that has beset American politics.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: After a long and brutal counteroffensive, Ukraine says it has liberated more than 60 settlements in the Kherson region. Its biggest victory has been in the city of Kherson itself, where Ukrainian forces pushed out Russian invaders earlier this week. [02:10:00]

HOLMES: Residents there celebrating their long awaited freedom pouring into the streets, waving flags, jumping for joy, cheering their troops as they came into the city. Well, CNN Nic Robertson was in the thick of all that in the city of Kherson. He joins us now with more.

It was just remarkable, the emotional scenes we saw in you and your team's remarkable reporting.

What is the situation right now?

What are the realities after the joy?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The reality is that Kherson is now a front line city, that Russian forces are just across the river, that the war is not over.

It's a liberation of a city but not the end of the struggle against Russian occupation in other parts of the country. Last night and into early hours this morning, you could hear outgoing fire toward the Russian forces.

It's unclear what form the battle may take around here. It's a strategic river. I don't think there's any likelihood in the near future the Russian forces will come across. We've seen some of them quite literally running across dam and pontoon bridges to get away from this side of the river.

For the residents of this city, the Ukrainian government now in charge, working on restoring electricity, restoring water, restoring basic services. There was even a glimmer a few moments ago of possibly -- and I say possibly, it's hard to tell -- of a 3G phone service coming back.

The city's been cut off without internet. There is a curfew in place now for people here, from 5 pm in the evening until 8 am in the morning. So that's a long curfew. There is, of course, concerns for the government, that there were collaborators here, working with the Russians.

And some of those may have stayed behind, maybe Russian troops here in civilian clothes who stayed behind. So there's a security issue that the government is very mindful of here and will be taking steps to try to round up anyone that they feel is a threat against their forces and a threat against the population.

But I think for people now, you have this, you know, the euphoria of the past couple of days of the liberation. And the troops were absolutely treated as conquering heroes. We talked to one of those soldiers, who said it was a five-day battle for him and his forces to get into the city.

But the conquering heroes are now here to support the population and try to give them some sense of normal life. But there are reports as well on social media channels, that Ukrainians will be reading, that say Ukrainian officials in Kyiv are saying, look, we may not be able to restore good living conditions in Kherson that quickly.

So if you want to leave and relocate somewhere else in the country, where you can have better services, where you can stay warm through the winter, that's now an option for them where it wasn't before, Michael.

HOLMES: Yes. You touched on this and it's important. Obviously a major victory for Ukraine.

But how well can the liberating side defend its positions and perhaps contemplate advances, when the Russians are literally just across the river and the bridges are destroyed?

How would they do that?

ROBERTSON: The way the geography on the front lines work here, if you go far enough up the river -- and I couldn't give you a figure on how many miles in kilometers -- but I'd say rough ballpark maybe about 80 kilometers upriver from here, maybe a little bit less than that -- on the other side of the river, the east bank, if you will, Ukrainian forces are there.

So they're already across the strategic river. So their battle lines would potentially push southward. We don't know how their military campaign is going to unfold. And there will be ways for them to cross the river here.

We know that the Russians have been fortifying villages on the eastern side of the river because they would expect the Ukrainians to try to potentially come across the river at places where it could be crossed and gain a foothold.

So how the battle shapes across this river, I think, is probably going to play out in the coming months, obviously, but may not become clear until spring, because the conditions now here are getting very cold. It's subzero at nights here.

The city, for example, does not have any heating whatsoever. So for front line troops, the thought of or the possibility to advance will become much harder through the winter. Spring potentially brings a different phase. But we're not there yet.

HOLMES: I go back to the images of your team, with Kareem and Clayton, these wonderful images of celebration. It is remarkable, the resilience, given what they've been through. And we heard from some of them you spoke to.

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HOLMES: But what was your overall sense of what they had endured to get to this level of joy now?

ROBERTSON: Extreme hardships; some of the people we talked to said, look, some days or some moments the Russian troops just sort of ignored you on the street, didn't do anything about you. But he said you didn't know when they were going to come and beat you, when they were going to perhaps take you away and kill you.

There was a complete eight months, dark eight months of oppression and uncertainty, a really, really hard time. People were taken away and tortured, badly beaten. We know of at least two people that CNN has spoken with here, who were tortured and beaten.

People were rounded up. The police, we're told, would come or the Russian army would come in the middle of the night, take people from their houses. And it wasn't clear if they were going to come back.

Oftentimes the Russians would try to force them to collaborate with the Russian troops, to inform on where the Ukrainian forces might be. That was one of their big concerns. In a town not far from here, we heard that from a couple of people who had been taken by the Russians, threatened with brutality.

A 15-year-old girl threatened they would cut her fingers off if, the Russians would cut her fingers off if she didn't tell them where the Ukrainian troops were, which was a terrifying experience for her to have to go through.

This is the type of oppression that people here have had to go through. And I'm just going to do what I rarely do and follow up on what you said about Clayton Nagel, our cameraman, and Kareem Khadder (ph), our producer here, and Kosta Ahfex Nandani (ph), who has also been working with our team.

And it took a huge team effort to get us here at the moment. So driving through mine fields, driving finding ways across, around, through fields, around bridges that have been blown up.

And this fragile situation, if you will, is still, to a degree, what the Ukrainians in this city are faced to deal with, stuck, you know, behind the front lines of a battlefield that haven't been cleared. So they're liberated in the city but they really don't have a great deal of freedom of movement to get out beyond it just yet.

HOLMES: Because I've got you and it's great to be able to get you, I do want to ask one more thing.

When we talk about -- and the old saying is it's easy to take territory. It's more difficult to hold it.

When you speak to the locals there and you hear that defiance, when you think of other areas that Russia has taken under control or even annexed, what do you make of that resilience?

Is Russia ever going to be able to control, defeat, bring down a population that, clearly in Kherson, from what we were seeing in your reporting, they were having none of it?

ROBERTSON: You know, if the Kremlin is listening closely and watching closely what's happened here in Kherson, and not having it filtered through sort of a circle of sycophants around the leadership, who will only ever tell the leadership what they think the leadership wants to hear.

And we know that this is the way the Russian system works because a Russian diplomat who defected recently in Geneva spoke precisely about this, the problem for the Russians is no one will tell the truth upwards.

So if they've been watching their television sets and reading the situation here, they will understand that whatever brutality they push down the throats of the Ukrainian population, as soon as they left, the Ukrainians were back on their feet, proud to be Ukrainian.

So whatever delusions the Russians may or may not have had here in this city, about how cooperative the population was and how much they had control and how much people believed the huge Russian posters, proclaiming, "This is Russia," you know, "Kherson is Russia forever," as some people have now scratched out and put "Kherson was Russia's until November the 11th."

However much the Russians deluded themselves that they had the population on their side, this was an absolute object lesson that that was not the case, that the population here merely put their heads down, hunkered down, tried to get through it the best they could.

And that resolve they had, to do whatever they could, to loosen the Russians' grip here, is what enabled the Ukrainian forces to be able to get in here and get a foothold.

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ROBERTSON: I think a lot of Ukrainians attribute this change of situation in Kherson to that resilience in the population here, is an absolute object lesson for anyone watching this with an understanding that I will know, that in other areas of Ukraine, the population there, that's just had their territory overrun this year and back in 2014, wants none of the Russians and is ready for their own government to come back and take control.

HOLMES: That is such an important aspect of all of this and what's been unfolding. I know it was an arduous journey to get where you are right now. And kudos to you and the entire team. It's great to have been able to get a signal up and talk to you.

Nic, thank you for that. Nic Robertson in Kherson.

Some amazing work just even getting where they are.

U.S. President Joe Biden looking to shore up relations with leaders at the summit of Southeast Asian nations in advance of meeting with Chinese president Xi Jinping. We'll have a live report from Cambodia when we come back.

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(MUSIC PLAYING) HOLMES: U.S. President Joe Biden is in the middle of an international

trip that includes the ASEAN summit, where he is looking to counter China's growing influence.

In the coming hours, the president meets with leaders of Japan and South Korea in Cambodia. Their discussions will include the threat posed by North Korea's missile and nuclear programs.

On Monday, Mr. Biden heads to Bali for the Group of 20 summit. He is set to hold an in-person meeting with the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping. And they're expected to discuss a range of issues, including the economy, trade and Taiwan.

Joining me now, CNN senior international correspondent Will Ripley.

It is a very important meeting and, the thing is, it's the first one that Biden has held with Xi since he came into office.

[02:25:00]

HOLMES: But these are two men who know each other well, right?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Biden claims that he knows Xi Jinping better than any world leader at the moment. And it's a claim that he can probably back up, when you look at the track record of these two.

It goes back literally decades. Their political careers, they were rising up basically at the same time. And as a result, you now have Xi Jinping with this unprecedented third term as China's leader, potentially paving the way for president Xi for life.

You have Biden, leader of the super power of the world, with the world's largest military, China a very close second in that category. And it is a time tensions between the two countries are at arguably very high levels, with the highly contentious issue of the self- governing democracy of Taiwan.

Even though President Biden has met with Xi many times, they've never met face to face during Biden's first two years in office, largely because of the pandemic. They have met virtually.

Biden places great emphasis on the importance of sitting down, looking the other leader in the eye and talking about these things in a very direct manner. And that's what he told reporters earlier here in Cambodia that he intends to do with Xi Jinping.

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JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know Xi Jinping. I spent more time with him than any other world leader. I know him well; he knows me. There's no -- we have very little misunderstanding.

We've just got to figure out where the red lines are and what are the most important things to each of us and within the next two years. And as circumstances change, to state the obvious. I've always had straightforward discussions with him. There was never

any miscalculation about where each of us stand. I think that's critically important in our relationship.

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RIPLEY: Before that critical meeting happens at the G20 in Bali, President Biden will meeting with leaders of South Korea and Japan in just a few hours here.

In addition to discussions about what U.S. allies in this region hope to get out of this face-to-face meeting between Biden and Xi, they'll be talking about other issues of shared importance.

Probably topping the list, Michael, the North Korean nuclear threat, with the potential seventh North Korean nuclear test ready to happen pretty much anytime. President Biden's aides say he's hoping to develop a very clear strategy with key allies in this region to respond to that and the long list of other issues facing the world now.

He was just in Egypt talking about climate, perhaps the biggest shared crisis of the world, even though there's a long list of other items on the list that's taking the attention of world leaders now. Interesting to see what happens in the coming hours and days, Michael.

HOLMES: Absolutely. Good to have you there. Will Ripley.

There is much more to come here on CNN NEWSROOM. The Arizona Senate race has a projected winner but still too early to call the governor's race. We'll have the very latest when we come back.

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HOLMES: Welcome back to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world, appreciate you sticking with us. I'm Michael Holmes.

Let's go back now to our top story, the results from Tuesday's midterm elections -- and we now project the Democrats will retain control of the U.S. Senate. The incumbent Democrat Catherine Cortez Masto will hold onto her Nevada Senate seat defeating the Republican Adam Laxalt.

The House of Representatives still not decided. Democrats hold 204 seats, Republicans 211, 218 the threshold needed to control the lower house. CNN's John Berman now with more on how the balance of power in the Senate shifted to the Democrats and what could happen in the House of Representatives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So this is currently the makeup of the U.S. Senate. The Democrats have 50 seats, the Republicans have 49. There is still a runoff in Georgia, which takes place on December 6th.

But no matter what happens there, the Democrats will maintain control of the Senate. If the Republicans manage to win that runoff in Georgia, it will be a 50-50 split. The Vice President Kamala Harris would break the tie.

But if the incumbent Democrat Raphael Warnock does win in this runoff in December, the Democrats would have a 51-49 advantage, an outright majority, which, believe me, they would enjoy. It would mean the committee assignments don't have to be even.

It would mean they could lose at least one Democratic vote in key moments in the Senate. So this is what it could look like going forward.

How did we get to this point?

The last Senate seat to be called was in Nevada. It was Catherine Cortez Masto over Adam Laxalt. Some of the mail vote that came in over the last several days helped her make up a deficit. She had been trailing by more than 22,000 votes just a few days ago; now leading by several thousand. So the Senate has been decided.

That leaves the U.S. House of Representatives. This is something. Not many people would have thought that the Senate would be called for the Democrats before the House would be called for Republicans. But we just can't yet. There are too many outstanding races.

Right now, the Republicans control 211 seats. We projected they will win at least 211 seats. The Democrats, 204. You need 218 seats in the House of Representatives to have a majority, 218, which means the Republicans need seven more. The Democrats would need 14 more.

There are currently 20 seats that have not been called, 20 races that have yet to be called. In these races right now, the Republicans lead in 10. They only need seven. They lead in 10. The Democrats lead in 10, they need 14. So you can see, it's an uphill battle.

The Democrats on this map right now would need to hold every district that is currently blue and then pick up four of the uncalled races that are still in red. Some of them are quite close.

Let me just show you. In California, California's 13th congressional district for instance right now, there's just a margin of 84 votes with 46 percent reporting.

[02:35:00]

BERMAN: So the Democrats could potentially, potentially pick up a few of these seats.

This seat, district right here, you can see Riverside County, that's just a county there but you can see in this district right now, California's 41st, the Republican leads by 2,100 votes with just 53 remaining.

So again, if the Democrats were to hold every blue district, every blue congressional district on this map and pick up four of these red Republican ones, they would maintain control of the House. It's an uphill battle but at this point, not impossible -- John Berman, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Maricopa County still has the biggest number of outstanding votes in the state of Arizona. CNN's Kyung Lah now with the story from Phoenix.

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KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR U.S. CORRESPONDENT: The count continues in Maricopa County; 85,000 votes released here in the county, still more votes to be counted. And still no clear answer on the governor's race here in the state of Arizona.

Republican Kari Lake did manage to close the gap just a bit on Democrat Katie Hobbs, who remains the leader. If you look at the numbers, the margin has shrunk just a tad but not enough to determine if there is a clear winner at this point.

But the Lake campaign releasing a little information about what it's inside their campaign headquarters, saying they believe these numbers offer a glimmer of hope, the campaign saying, "There is 100 percent a path and because the vote is still going on, that there is so much we do not know at this stage."

We do know CNN has projected a winner in the U.S. Senate race in Arizona. Mark Kelly, the senator, will maintain his seat. The race was called in his favor by CNN. Today thanking his supporters who backed his race.

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SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): You are all the reason that we are successful. I also want to thank our state's election officials, honorable Republicans and Democrats, who were doing the important work of making sure that Arizonans' votes and voices are heard, their votes are counted as quickly and as transparently as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH: Blake Masters has not conceded but indicated in a tweet he would be open to it after every legal vote is counted.

How many votes do remain?

In Maricopa County there's about 185,000 to 195,000 votes remaining. The anticipation is, on Sunday evening, another release of votes of about 80,000 here in this county -- Kyung Lah, CNN, Phoenix.

(END VIDEOTAPE) HOLMES: Just ahead here on the program, the COP27 summit has been underway in Egypt for several days. We'll take a look at some of the proposals being discussed to tackle the climate crisis. We'll have a conversation when we come back.

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HOLMES: Now a range of options and solutions for the climate crisis have been presented over the past few days at the COP27 summit in Egypt. India wants countries to agree to phase down all fossil fuels while some African nations argue that they must develop fossil fuel resources to lift their people out of poverty.

The U.S. President Joe Biden addressed the summit Friday, calling on all countries to do more to tackle global warming and warning that progress must be made by the end of the current decade.

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HOLMES: And I'm joined now by Jean Su, energy justice director and senior attorney at the Center for Biological Diversity and joins me now from Sharm El Sheikh, where the summit is taking place.

I wanted to start with the fossil fuel industry. There are more fossil fuel lobbyists registered at COP27 than there are representatives of the 10 countries most impacted by climate change.

What does that suggest to you?

What power do those lobbyists still have over climate policy despite what we all know is happening around the world?

JEAN SU, ENERGY JUSTICE DIRECTOR AND SENIOR ATTORNEY, CENTER FOR BIOLOGICAL DIVERSITY: Yes. Thanks for having me. What we really have here is a situation where the fox is literally guarding the henhouse.

There's been an explosion of fossil fuel lobbyists here on the ground here at Sharm El Sheikh. And what we see is really the capitalization and capture of our climate negotiators to the fossil fuel industry.

What you just heard about this dash for gas in Africa, the fact that President Biden himself is calling for more oil and gas drilling in response to the Ukraine-Russia war, all of those are going the exact opposite direction of where we need to go to resolve the climate crisis.

HOLMES: Loss and damage is a huge issue that's being discussed at this COP, helping those nations who contributed the least to climate change but affected the most. How confident are you that there will be meaningful progress on that

issue and it is really important but it, of course, treats symptoms, not causes?

SU: Right. So loss and damage is the key issue substantively for this COP. Essentially it's been an issue, where global south countries, including low lying states, have been advocating and pleading for rich countries to actually compensate them for the tremendous climate damage they have incurred but have done the least to cause it.

So this has been an incredible fight for global south countries and for civil society. And we have seen a glimmer of hope because, this year for the very first time in 27 years, the countries have all decided that loss and damage will be put on the actual agenda.

But of course, putting words on a paper and actually delivering real action is, you know, really the crux of the point. The U.S. in particular has been a key obstructor of loss and damage negotiations.

And what we're hoping this year is that they come under the power, pressure of the world to negotiate in good faith on a financing facility, where we can finally see rich countries, who have done and borne the brunt of causing the climate crisis --

[02:45:00]

SU: -- to actually pay up and figure out the reparations and compensation to those countries who are suffering the most from the climate crisis but have done the very least to cause it.

HOLMES: Yes. OK. The aims of the Paris climate accord was to limit warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius above pre industrial levels. That is now on track to be 2, 2.5, 2.7 degrees by the end of the century.

I mean, that's crazy.

What would our world look like if that were to happen?

SU: Unfortunately we're seeing what that world looks like right now. We're here, sitting in the heart of Africa, which is ground zero for that loss and damage. We have seen Nigeria and South Africa suffer record flooding this year.

Algeria is burning up from wildfires and heat waves across the continent are driving migration and famine. And that's only the tip of the iceberg, truly.

If we reach a 2.7-degree world, scientists say that that is literally game over for the continent of Africa and for low lying states like the Pacific islands, where their entire countries will disappear.

And we know that every minute right now we're already losing one species to extinction because of the climate crisis. All of that will accelerate to a point where scientists say that we are living through the sixth mass extinction of the world's history and that we will lose 75 percent of our species if we cross the 1.5-degree threshold. HOLMES: I can't imagine how frustrating it is. You must be biting

your tongue every time you go to one of these things. I mean a successful COP is normally a COP that hasn't failed abjectly.

And what's going to make this one different?

It just seems, whatever's being done isn't cutting it. Governments, corporations, individuals; is there any sign that what is required to be done will even get close to being done?

SU: These COPs are essentially megaphones where people from civil society, those who have suffered the most from the climate crisis, can come to one place and put extreme pressure on governments around the world and try to hold them to account.

What we're trying to do here is get countries to actually recognize and commit to phasing out fossil fuels.

You said at the beginning we have a record number of fossil fuel lobbyists right now, wining and dining government officials, sponsoring the entire conference and brokering deals like we're seeing between Egypt and Lebanon in the E.U. for more gas.

The point right now is that any 5-year old can tell you the root cause of the climate crisis is fossil fuels. And the answer to that is phasing out fossil fuels immediately. What we're trying to do here is get governments to understand that, to acknowledge it and to commit to real commitments for phasing out and ending the fossil future era.

We've seen some movement with India, which is fantastic. We also see low lying states in the global south also calling for this. So it's really full eyes and pressure on our greatest oil and gas producing countries to step up, stop fossil fuels and pay up for their loss and damage.

HOLMES: It's almost bizarre that a COP climate conference is a place where fossil fuel lobbyists are wining and dining people. It really does. Wish we had more time, Jean Su. Let's chat again going forward. Thanks so much.

SU: Thanks for having me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Millions of people across the U.S. will be hit with freezing temperatures this week. We'll tell you how cold it's going to get after a quick break. We'll be right back.

We'll be right back.

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[02:50:00]

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HOLMES: At least two people were killed Saturday when a couple of World War II-era planes collided in midair. We have to warn you the footage may be disturbing. The B-17 Flying Fortress and a Bell P-63 Kingcobra crashed during an air show in Dallas.

That is the moment there, just a millisecond before they collided. Officials have not confirmed the number of casualties but the Allied Pilots Association says two former members were among those killed. CNN aviation analyst Mary Schiavo explains how air shows are regulated.

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MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: When tragedies happen at air shows the FAA has to reevaluate whether this should be allowed.

Because, remember, even though the regular federal aviation rules don't apply, the FAA does approve them -- license aerobatic flights, license these dramatic maneuver events and air shows -- and they have to permit these air shows.

And the FAA has decided it's in the interest of aviation and in the interest of keeping people interested in aviation, aviation skills, aviation promotion.

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HOLMES: An NTSB investigation is underway.

Now a cruise ship carrying hundreds of passengers infected with COVID- 19 has docked in Sydney. The Majestic Princess cruise ship, which sailed from New Zealand, had at least 800 positive cases on board, forcing officials to issue the country's highest COVID alert.

The cruise line says a large number of guests started testing positive halfway through the 12-day journey. They say the infected guests isolated in their staterooms until they were escorted off the ship from a separate exit.

Cold weather hits the U.S. More than 200 million people will experience temperatures at or below freezing this week. There are winter weather advisories in the Great Lakes region, in East Texas and neighboring states and in the Washington, D.C., and Philadelphia metro areas.

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HOLMES: Thanks for spending part of your day with me. I'm Michael Holmes. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram @CNN.