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Trump Under Fire Over Meeting With White Nationalist; Will Congress Prevent Rail Strike?; U.S. Faces Iran in World Cup. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired November 29, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:17]

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, and thank you for joining us. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

We began with a human rights fight, a geopolitical standoff, and a battle to stay in the World Cup. It's all on the line today in Qatar, when the U.S. and Iran face off in a decisive match. For both team,s it's as simple as this: Win and you're in. You make it to the round of 16.

But beyond the pitch, the stakes are even higher. For Iran's players, do or die may not be hyperbole. A wave of human rights protests is sweeping that country, as the Iranian regime continues its brutal crackdown.

We are covering this from all angles, CNN's Don Riddell at the World Cup in Doha. CNN's Jomana Karadsheh is tracking the developments inside Iran. And also with us, CNN sports analyst Christine Brennan.

Don, sometimes, a game is more than just a game. This feels like one of those moments.

DON RIDDELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're absolutely right, Ana, yes, so many swirling narratives.

And it feels as though they have all collided here on this night in Qatar. A huge crowd here expected for the game that's going to be kicking off in just under an hour's time. Many of them are already inside the stadium. And the atmosphere outside is intense, and not in the way that I would usually experience at a soccer match, where it's one set of supporters against the other.

It's the factions within the Iranian crowd that is so fascinating, and really speaks to the pressures that these people who are under. For example, I'm sure you have heard about the situation with the Iranian flag. This is the official Iranian flag with the emblem of the Islamic Republic on it.

And this was the emblem that the United States Soccer Federation so controversially removed briefly during their -- one of their social media posts, which enraged the Iranian government. And they did that because they said they were supporting the protesters and the demonstrators, and, in particular, the women in Iran. So that kicked off a whole storm of controversy. So you have some of

the fans here with the official flag. You have other fans who have different flags. And it's very clear what side of the fence they are on. CNN has tried to speak with some of them here. I have tried to. A lot of them wanted to talk privately, but not on camera.

But I did find one supporter who was very articulately able to express quite how he feels about this occasion. He's traveled all the way here from London. And what he said is quite extraordinary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have mixed emotion and feeling. First of all, I'm a passionate supporter of Iran. But, today, unfortunately, I can't be supporter of national team, because of the current situation going on, and the government trying to hijack the game and the sport and using it as a platform to buy the credibility and show that everything is normal what's going on in Iran, nothing's happened, everybody happy, they have a daily life fun, nothing.

But, unfortunately, it's not true. Right now, in a lot of Kurdish city, there is bloodshed. And there are a lot of killing of women and children, and, at the same time government, as I say, using the football as a platform for political agenda, political gains.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIDDELL: Ana, imagine that. He's come all the way to the World Cup. He's a proud Iranian football supporter. And, tonight, he is cheering for his team to lose. He also told me that he doesn't feel safe in this crowd.

He wouldn't give me his last name. And during our interview, other Iranian fans were filming our interview, and he felt very threatened and intimidated by that. He said that was proof that pro-regime elements are in this crowd, and they're keeping a very, very close eye on what the demonstrators and the protesters are saying all the way here in Qatar.

CABRERA: No, we were reporting just yesterday that officials from Iran had been sent to surveil the players to monitor what people were saying and doing.

Jomana, this World Cup really has put a spotlight on the lengths the Iranian regime is going to try to stamp out dissent, including even threatening the current team and their families. And now we have reporting that there's an Iranian soccer legend who says he's getting death threats. Fill us in.

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, we're hearing from Ali Karimi, who, as you mentioned, is an Iranian soccer legend, a really popular figure amongst Iranians.

And he doesn't usually give interviews, but he's just spoken out. Since these protests began, he has shown his support for the protesters in his country and spoken out in solidarity with them. And we have seen the government's reaction. They have actually listed him amongst a group of celebrities and high-profile figures in Iran who they accuse of encouraging the rioters. That's how they describe the protesters. We saw that early on.

[13:05:09]

And now we're hearing from Ali Karimi, saying that there are death threats against him, that the regime has tried to lure him back to the country. He was in Dubai, where -- they were trying to lure him back to Iran, where he would face charges that could possibly carry the death penalty, harmonizing with the enemy and encouraging the riots.

He says he really didn't feel safe in Dubai, that he had to take his family and go now to an undisclosed location. Really disturbing, Ana, but not surprising. Iranians would tell you this is exactly what they have been facing for decades now. This is exactly how the regime operates.

It has targeted and gone after dissidents, critics, even journalists outside the country. We have seen that here in Turkey, where plots have been uncovered, as well as the United States. So Iranians would tell you, the threat from the Islamic Republic goes far beyond its borders, Ana.

CABRERA: Christine, the players are obviously aware of all these outside factors. The stick-to-sports concept is thrown out the window at this point.

But how do these players stay focused on the game, in the face of all this added pressure?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Ana, I don't think it's going to be difficult for them to do that at all, because the stakes are so high on the field of play, as, of course, they are off as well.

So, for the next couple of hours, once this match kicks off at 2:00 Eastern, they will be focused on soccer. That's what they're here to do. One of these teams will advance most likely. The other will not. And if the United States wins, they advance. If Iran wins, they advance.

So I think these -- especially for the U.S. team, this is a group of Title IX males. These are young men who have been raised in a very different world than their fathers and grandfathers. These are the young men, the U.S. men's national team, who actually agreed to give up some of their earnings and their money, so that the U.S. women would be able to have equal pay. That happened a few months ago.

This is an extraordinary group of young men, and they have spoken out, and they feel comfortable speaking out on these issues, just as the U.S. women's national team did, Megan Rapinoe and others, at World Cups in the past.

So, that's where we are. I think they will be able to focus on the field of play and what they need to do. The United States needs to score goals. This is a very young team with a lot of promise. And Iran, of course, wants to move on. And one could make the case, if Iran does move on, then the spotlight will stay on these issues, which would not be a bad thing, even, of course, as I'm sure many people watching us would love to see the United States team, of course, move on.

CABRERA: Yes, both teams have such stories, obviously, behind them and reasons to root for them.

Jomana, inside Iran, I wonder, who gets the credit or the blame for today's outcome? If Iran wins, does the protest movement claim it as their own victory? Does the regime weaponize a loss?

KARADSHEH: Well, I mean, we just have to look back, Ana, on what happened after their win last week against Wales.

The regime claimed this as a victory. We saw the surreal scenes of celebrations out on the streets of Tehran, where you had members of the security forces and a paramilitary force who are accused of horrific human rights violations, accused of killing hundreds of people during this ongoing crackdown right now, who were out on the streets celebrating, handing out candy.

So, definitely, the regime has been trying to use this sort of victory that it really needs, because, right now, they are under so much pressure, facing what is one of the biggest challenges the Islamic Republic has faced since its creation back in 1979.

So they most certainly will try to use this as a moment to really -- for propaganda. The optics would be something it needs, especially if they manage to defeat their great enemy, the United States. And as you heard from Don earlier speaking with that fan, I have heard this from so many Iranians, Ana. They're so torn.

They want to support their own national team. They have had so much -- I mean, it's a sense of pride for Iranians for a long, long time, but people just can't support a team right now that represents the regime, as many people, especially outside Iran, feel.

CABRERA: Christine, this is an event that happens only every four years.

But, in so many ways, it feels like the soccer or the football has really taken a backseat to the human rights issues as the main focus of this World Cup, whether it's what's happening with the Iran players and what's happening with them back home or the whole premise of Qatar being awarded the World Cup.

Does it surprise you that the human rights issue has taken center stage?

[13:10:04]

BRENNAN: Not at all, Ana, not at all.

When FIFA made the decision to give Qatar the men's World Cup in 2010, 12 years ago, we knew this was -- would be where we would be at this point in terms of the issues in that country, the migrant workers, the deaths of the migrant workers. Now we're hearing hundreds of them died, which human rights groups had told us in the past, of course, the LGBTQ rights, the lack thereof, in Qatar, these other issues that have come up and money under the table, allegations, and, in some cases, proof of that.

So that's the issue. And FIFA has no one to blame but themselves for making this decision, and having this storyline basically get away from them. Again, I would say, you and I have talked a lot about sports as a conduit for bigger, further conversation, taking us to major international and national conversations that we should have.

Here we are again. And so I think it's actually a good thing. I know there's a lot of people who just want to say, stick to sports. As you said, that went out the window the moment that Qatar was picked. And then you throw in the issues with Iran. And the U.S., I believe admirably, speaking up and talking about these issues, as other countries have, the European nations trying to wear the armband, "One Love," in support for LGBTQ rights and issues, and of course, then being rebuffed on that, so -- by FIFA.

On and on, it goes. You almost can't believe that it's been just a week-and-a-half. But here we are. It's exactly where we should be. And these young men are playing soccer, but they're also much, much bigger players in -- on the world stage in a very important conversation.

CABRERA: No kidding. Such an important conversation and an important time in this moment in history.

Don, real quick, in one word, sum it up. What's the atmosphere like right now?

RIDDELL: Intense. I can't wait to get inside and see what happens.

I think there's going to be a lot to watch before the game kicks off, during, on the field, in the crowd. And I really have no idea what's going to happen, but it's going to be very, very newsworthy, whatever it is, Ana.

CABRERA: And we have got a lot of other news to cover before that kickoff.

Don Riddell, thank you. Thank you so much, Christine Brennan and Jomana Karadsheh.

Back here at home, President Biden says he is now confident a rail strike that would cripple the economy will be averted. But a deal isn't done just yet. Right now, there's still a dispute over a tentative agreement that was reached back in September. Some rail unions are asking for more. So, now President Biden is calling on Congress to essentially force the deal through, because, without action, experts say a strike could cost the U.S. a billion dollars in just the first week alone.

We have CNN's Matt Egan standing by.

But, first, let's go to CNN, Phil Mattingly at the White House.

And, Phil, this is kind of tricky for President Biden, because he is the pro-union president and forcing this deal appears to undermine the union's negotiating power.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Ana, not just a pro-union president, but the president himself, calls himself the most pro-union president in the history of the country.

And it's something that White House officials tried to really point to as they reach that tentative agreement, really driven by Labor Secretary Marty Walsh, himself a former union member. But the reality remains that a tentative agreement is not a final agreement. They needed the rank-and-file of the unions to support that agreement, all 12 of them to do so. Four of those 12 have rejected that.

In part, it's because of the contours of that agreement. Now, the agreement, White House officials make very clear, has some clear positives, an immediate 14 percent pay increase, up to 24 percent by the year 2024 as well, $1,000 bonuses, but the primary sticking points remain those related primarily to the structure of how the railways schedule many of the union members.

Sick leave is really the number one issue that you hear about over and over again, staffing issues, quality of life issues. Those are issues that the unions who rejected this tentative agreement have continued to raise as problematic. That has left the White House in the position of looking at those downside, risks looking at the potential calamity of strikes and saying it's time to pull the trigger on the mechanism that they still had available to them.

And that is having Congress move forward. Now, just a few hours ago, the congressional -- top four congressional leaders met with President Biden, Ana, and all four said that they are ready to move forward on the president's call, Republicans not exactly thrilled about it, but understand that the risks here far outweigh any other options. And it looks like Congress is going to move forward on the president's request.

CABRERA: Matt, the economic implications are huge. Walk us through what could happen.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Ana, a real strike is one of the most disruptive and expensive things that can happen to an economy. Just how expensive?

Anderson Economic Group pegs it at a billion dollars just during the first week alone. This is lost wages, lost production. I mean, the problem is that rails really are at the fulcrum at -- of this supply chain. I mean, trains really make this economy go. Without them, you would be causing a lot of chaos.

[13:15:00] There'd be widespread impact here, everything from the delivery of gasoline and oil, coal, the delivery of cars. All of this would be impacted, agriculture. So you will see an impact of food prices, potentially supply issues there, commuting too.

A lot of the trains that Amtrak uses, they actually run on railroads that are owned by freight railroads. So you would see a huge impact. I think all of this is why we have seen even pro-union President Biden come in and step in and ask Congress to intervene here.

CABRERA: Matt, paid sick leave has been a big sticking point here. Can you help put what they're asking for into better context for us?

EGAN: Well, paid medical leave has become increasingly popular in this economy. Almost eight in 10 workers actually get it. There's an asterisk here, because that really varies. Low-income workers, part- time workers, they're less likely.

It also varies by occupation. But that has been one of the big sticking points. We should note, though, the United States does not have a law here. Employers are not required to give their employees paid leave. The United States is actually only one of six nations around the world that does not have a national paid leave policy, just one of six.

And I think that COVID and this battle between workers and railroads and the railroad companies really shines a spotlight on that issue.

CABRERA: OK, thank you both so much, Matt Egan and Phil Mattingly.

For now, the holiday shopping season is roaring along at a record clip. American shoppers shelled out an all time-high $11.3 billion on Cyber Monday, in that one day. Adobe Analytics says that's a nearly 6 percent jump over last year, and it comes on the heels of a record- breaking Black Friday. The lead analyst at Adobe says heavy discounts are driving that strong demand.

More Republicans today are rebuking Donald Trump after he hosted a woman-hating, Putin-loving antisemite for dinner at Mar-a-Lago. And that now includes the man trying to become the next GOP speaker of the House, staunch Trump ally Kevin McCarthy.

Plus, the world's richest human going to war with the world's most valuable company. Elon Musk now accusing Apple of threatening to pull Twitter from the App Store, as he guts yet another effort to keep garbage off the social network.

And Will Smith gives an emotional interview and tries to explain why he assaulted Chris Rock at the Oscars.

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[13:21:46]

CABRERA: One week after former President Trump's sit-down dinner with well-known white supremacist Nick Fuentes, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy is now weighing in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Look, the president is going to have meetings with who he wants. I don't think anybody, though, should have a meeting with Nick Fuentes. And his views should -- are nowhere within the Republican Party or within this country itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: McCarthy joins a growing number of Republicans expressing similar sentiments, including Trump's former vice president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: President Trump was wrong to give a white nationalist, an antisemite and a Holocaust denier a seat at the table. And I think he should apologize for it. And he should denounce those individuals and their hateful rhetoric.

SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): Well, I think he can make better choices, obviously.

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): Well, he should condemn any -- those kinds of things that anybody -- anybody would stand for it, no matter who they are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Others include Senator Marco Rubio, who off camera told CNN he hopes Trump will condemn Fuentes, Rubio calling Fuentes evil.

I want to be careful not to spread his hate, but the context is important here to really understand who this person is. Fuentes has denied six million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust. He's invoked fears of white genocide, calls for a total Aryan victory, used racist slurs against black people and slurs against homosexuals.

He's said women are inferior and shouldn't be able to vote. He's also said women should get married as teenagers, wear veils in church and not have jobs. That's just some of what he's espoused.

CNN's Manu Raju joins us now.

Manu, it's been a week. And McCarthy is just now saying this? Is there still a reluctance by leaders to buck the former president?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no question about it.

And the only reason that we're really hearing concern and some criticism from Republican members is that they are now back in session. They were on recess last week when this all broke and this all happened, this meeting that happened at Mar-a-Lago. Virtually none of them issued statements or said anything publicly criticizing him. But when they came back to the Capitol, they were asked by reporters

like me about the president's -- the former president's meeting. And a lot of them either criticized Donald Trump's meeting or criticized Nick Fuentes himself without going as far as criticizing Donald Trump. And some even tried to equate what Donald Trump did, has done with some actions of some Democrats, as they try to point the finger on others, not the former president.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): You know, I think it's disgusting to invite people like that to meet with a former president of the United States. I think there's -- it's been clear that there's no bottom to the degree to which President Trump will degrade himself and the nation.

SEN. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS): Well, certainly, I condemn any type of antisemitism. There's no room in this world for it. And I think if you're going to condemn one former president, you should be condemning this president at the same time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, Roger Marshall there contending that Joe Biden's views about Israel were somehow comparable to Donald Trump's meeting with a Holocaust denier at Mar-a-Lago, but some are trying to point the finger elsewhere.

[13:25:03]

We will see what Republican Leader Mitch McConnell has to say when he talks to reporters for the first time since this broke later today. Yesterday, when he was asked about this, he said he would wait until today to address these questions. We will see if he does not shy away from this as well.

CABRERA: The right answer is so clear in this case. Do you think McCarthy's delay in condemning this has anything to do with him wanting to become speaker?

RAJU: I -- no question that Kevin McCarthy needs Donald Trump's supporter -- support in order to win the backing of some key members of the House Republican Conference, some of those who align very closely with Donald Trump, some of those members themselves threatening to vote against Kevin McCarthy on the floor, where he has very little margin for error.

If they do have 222 seats, which it looks like they are likely to have, that means he cannot lose more than four votes on the House floor. And if he gets fewer than 218 votes, that would go to another ballot and another ballot and another ballot, until they get a majority of the House to vote for the next speaker.

Now, McCarthy today indicated that he is planning to take this to the floor no matter how many votes he has heading into January 3, and trying to force those who are threatening to vote against him to actually cast that vote on the floor. So there could be a major showdown as we head into the new Congress early next year -- Ana.

CABRERA: OK, Manu Raju, thank you so much.

And now to some rare bipartisanship on the Hill. Today, the Senate is expected to vote and pass the Respect for Marriage Act. It will codify federal protections for same-sex marriages and interracial marriages. Lawmakers pushed this bill over fears that marriage rights could be targeted after Roe v. Wade was overturned in June.

And after it passes the Senate, this bill goes to the House and then the president's desk to become law.

Now he's going after Apple. Elon Musk says the world's richest company is threatening to pull Twitter from the App Store. What's Apple saying about that?

Plus, Will Smith gets emotional as he tries to explain why he slapped Chris Rock at the Oscars.

That's next.

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