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Today, Congress to Act in Preventing Crippling Rail Strike; More Than 25 Tornadoes Hit Southern States Overnight, Killing Two; Oath Keepers Founder Guilty of Sedition in January 6 Attack. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired November 30, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Bianna Golodryga.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

Right now on Capitol Hill, the House is set to begin voting on critical legislation to avoid a nationwide railroad strike, this after warnings from President Biden that no the doing so could severely cripple the U.S. economy. It comes as lawmakers are also facing a looming government funding deadline, this to avoid a shutdown, just before the holidays. We're going to have more on where negotiations on that stand in just a moment.

GOLODRYGA: Plus, Oath Keepers founder Steward Rhodes and another leader of the right-wing militia group, Kelly Meggs, both found guilty of seditious conspiracy for their roles around the January 6th Capitol Hill. Now, the two face a 20-year maximum prison sentence on that charge.

And the threat for severe weather continues today after at least 20 tornadoes ripped through the southeast overnight, killing two people.

SCIUTTO: Goodness, look at that, all those people's homes.

Well, we do begin this hour on Capitol Hill, a rules vote set to take place at any moment, just one in a long lines of steps before the final vote as the House looks to move that rail package forward.

CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju is on the Hill. Manu, the big question is, are there votes in the House, are there votes in the Senate, including from Democrats, to get this through?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there are the votes in the House. In fact, I just spoke to the House majority leader, Steny Hoyer, I asked if all Democrats are expected to vote for this measure later today. He said that some probably are not. But he said there will be enough Republicans who will ultimately support that, so he called it, quote, a fudge factor that will eventually lead for this bill to be approved by the House later today.

So, the Democratic leadership set up two votes for today in order to placate concerns on the left that this rail deal, to avert the strike, was silent on the issue of paid leave for rail workers. So, they have two votes, one, to allow for workers to get certain number of days for paid leave, and another to pass the tentative agreement that was silent on this issue to avert the rail strike.

Now, the Senate is a different question. The Senate can ignore this issue about paid leave altogether, and just pass the bill, the underlying bill to implement that agreement, which seems the most likely path that will ultimately go into law.

But the Senate is the big question going forward. Because after this passes the House today, then there will need to be an agreement among all 100 senators to set a vote on the rail deal. And there is not an agreement yet, because some Democrats, some members of the Democratic caucus, including Independent Bernie Sanders, want a vote to implement that paid sick leave. And some other Republicans have made some demands as well, have raised concerns as well, they may have suggestions for amendments. So, that process still needs to work out as Democratic leaders are hoping this could pass by the end of the week. Still uncertain whether they can get there, as they move through a long list of legislative priorities in this lame-duck session, guys.

GOLODRYGA: Manu, something else you're following today, House Democrats setting to vote on their leadership at this hour. Hakeem Jefferies is expected to succeed Pelosi as the top House Democrat. This transition, all of this seemed to work out pretty seamlessly. Does he have the votes right now?

RAJU: Yes, he does, and he doesn't have any opposition. In fact, this is going to be a relative -- a very smooth transition, something that was uncertain after Nancy Pelosi announced her decision to step aside. But because of the decisions by the number two and number three not to seek re-election for those positions, that's Steny Hoyer and Jim Clyburn, and instead allow for a new generation of Democratic leaders to move forward, Hakeem Jeffries, Katherine Clark as the number two, Pete Aguilar is the number three, are expected to get those positions essentially by voice vote later today. And Jeffries, of course, would make history to be the first black leader of any party on Capitol Hill in history. Guys?

GOLODRYGA: A whole new generation there amongst Democratic leaders. Manu Raju, thank you.

Well, joining us is to talk about all of this is Toluse Olorunnipa, White House Bureau Chief for The Washington Post, and Laura Barron Lopez, CNN Political Analyst and White House Correspondent for PBS Newshour. Good morning to you both.

Toluse, if I could start with you on this vote that's taking place today, these two votes at the House that's taking up, obviously, all eyes are going to be on what the Senate does in terms of averting a rail strike. What is the likelihood that the Senate will not only pass the one vote, the legislation that was agreed to in the preliminary deal back in September to avoid it, but also the second vote that the House is taking up, and that is paid leave?

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, this is crunch time. And a lot of these senators are going to have to sort of realize whether or not they're going to stick to their principles and try to stand up for labor or realize that if this allows -- if we allow a rail strike to happen, that this could tank the economy, this could have a really harsh impact on the economy.

And so, as of the timeline, I do expect a number of these senators to try to make their point, try to, you know, at least stick their flag in the ground and say this is what I stand for, and then, ultimately, get behind the idea of passing a bill that will allow us to avert that rail strike and then maybe deal with issues, like paid leave, at a later date.

[10:05:03]

SCIUTTO: Laura, I wonder if you agree there, because you have an interesting collection of folks who seem to be pushing for some sort of paid leave component to this, Bernie Sanders, you might expect that, but Marco Rubio, a couple other Republicans mentioning that. Are we going to have a bipartisan vote here possibly to force paid sick leave, at least on signalmen, railroad workers, whereas in the past, no one has had any progress of getting it through on a national basis?

LAURA BARRON LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think that there is a possibility for that, Jim. A few of the Democratic sources that I've been texting with on the Hill are hopeful that, given the signals that they have seen from some Republicans, like Senator Marco Rubio, that maybe there could be something, a deal that could be struck here, that adding seven additional days sounds reasonable, which is that the separate bill that the House is going to vote on and send over to the Senate.

Now, Nancy Pelosi is doing it separately, because, technically, if they do run out of time because, again, December 9th is the deadline, if they run out of the time, that bill that just covers the rail deal could be sent on to the president's desk and signed. So, like Toluse said, they could do these at separate times. But I think that you are going to see a push -- a bipartisan push from a number of Republican senators and as well as Democratic senators to really try to fit this paid sick leave in there, if they can.

GOLODRYGA: So, on this theme of bipartisanship, I don't want to get ahead of myself, Toluse, but we did see the Senate come together yesterday and protect same-sex marriage and passed that bill. We obviously have this potential deal, which looks like it's going to pass as well, avoiding the rail strike. What about funding the government? The deadline is December 16th. Is that going to happen? Because there's some rumbling that it may be extended even to December 23rd, right around Christmas time.

OLORUNNIPA: Yes. Every year in December we go through this issue, where we figure out how to fund the government, whether we're going to fund it for a few days to buy more some more time for these negotiators.

I do think that the fact that we are seeing some bipartisanship moving forward allows some of that muscle memory to be built, some of the coalitions of moderate Republicans that have come on board and sided with Democrats and helped Joe Biden a number of the pieces of his legislative agenda.

Some of those, the members could be part of the building block of the coalition that Biden will need to pass things, like an omnibus bill that would allow us to avert a government shutdown as well as fund the government far into the future and not allow this same fight that we're potentially having right now over spending to be happening again early next year with Republicans in charge.

And so Democrats are trying to -- and Republican leaders are also trying to avert the idea of having this fight with Republicans who have a very slim House majority in line as well.

SCIUTTO: So, Laura, Democratic leadership in the House is -- and, by the way, no small thing, right, I mean, Hakeem Jeffries is going to be an entire generation younger than Nancy Pelosi, who preceded him, some 30 years, as well as at the lower levels. On the Republican side, is Kevin McCarthy likely to be the next House speaker? Is this still up in the air?

LOPEZ: I think that still is very much up in the air, Jim. We still don't have a definitive answer yet on whether or not Kevin McCarthy has the 218 votes he's going to need. And a number of Republicans have even forecasted that they think that it could go multiple ballots on the floor come January for McCarthy to even get there.

So, we've seen how he's been playing this dance of trying to really appease the conservatives, the Freedom Caucus, I should say, and members like Marjorie Taylor Greene of his caucus, because he ultimately needs all of those, as many of those votes as possible as he can get.

On the Democratic side, Jim, yes, it is a major shift, a generational shift, when you go down the line, and Hakeem Jeffries has long been seen as the likely heir apparent to Nancy Pelosi. And so it's pretty, frankly, stunning given that in recent cycles, there was a lot of angst among the Democratic caucus about how long Pelosi was staying on, and yet they seem to be having a very seamless transition right now.

SCIUTTO: We'll be watching. Laura Barron Lopez, Toluse Olorunnipa, thanks to both of you.

Another story we're following this morning, more than 25 tornadoes tore through the southeast overnight, that killed two people, injured one person in Alabama. I mean, those are some powerful winds. And this is what they left behind. These are people's homes here torn up by the storm. This is in Green County, Alabama, and here's something our Ryan Young showed us the last hour. Well, those winds are powerfully.

However, most of those tornadoes did touched down in Mississippi, destroying several homes and buildings in their path. The threat for severe weather continues today for three states, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, as you can see the storm system there moving eastward.

[10:10:05]

GOLODRYGA: And entire communities are devastated there.

CNN National Correspondent Ryan Young is back on the ground for us in Mississippi. So, Ryan, the sun is up. Talk us through what you are seeing.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Sobering, really. But when you think about it, when we talked to that fire administrator in the last hour, he was honest with us. He said people called 911, they were desperate. They needed help. They were able to get there to rescue them out of their homes.

And when you look at damages like this, you can understand what is that 911 call like when a tree comes through your trailer slices it in half, like the one that we're seeing right here?

The resiliency, though, is in action, because you can people who are actively at work, trying to get their houses back together. There's a backhoe on the backside, and this gentleman right here is pulling out jars from the inside this trailer to try to cu -- as he's cutting down this tree at the same time. So, we've seen some of that action.

There has been a massive amount of power outages in this area. You talked about that power line that you can see down here on the ground right here. But as we are talking, you can see the crews that are in the distance that are actively working to get some of these power lines and get the restoration of power to this area.

We do know that there was probably at least three to four rescues in this area, everyone is okay, but we also got that sad news about those people in Alabama who lost their lives.

When you walk back this direction, though, and you see how the storm path cut through here, you can understand the power of this wind. You see these people giving a slight hug as they had a conversation. That woman didn't have a jacket earlier and she was learning about her house and what was going on next.

So, we've been trying to give some people time to kind of work some of these portions out. They've walked over to us said everyone has been helpful so far. You see the side of this truck right here. Look at that. That truck actually still works, but you can see how damaged it is.

And as we turn to the side here, this is what a lot of people heard that last night, that siren that was going off, but then all of a sudden, the tornado took that as well. It's going to take some time to put all this back together. We'll be here to talk to people throughout the day to figure out exactly how they put the pieces back together as they try to deal with this. Guys?

GOLODRYGA: It's important to hear their stories and to be there for them just to comfort them as they go through this and the aftermath of it all. Ryan Young, thank you. SCIUTTO: Still to come this hour, the Justice Department now celebrating a major win in court, this after two Oath Keeper leaders were convicted of seditious conspiracy surrounding the January 6th insurrection, what this means for future cases still under way.

Plus, experts say more people are adding to their credit card debt this holiday season. Could this mean trouble, as there are still some concerns about a recession, although there were big strong economic numbers today?

GOLODRYGA: And later, a new experimental drug is showing promise when it comes to slowing the progression of Alzheimer's disease, but are the potential side effects worth the risk? We'll discuss, up next.

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[10:15:00]

SCIUTTO: This first on CNN, former senior Trump adviser Stephen Miller testified to a federal grand jury on Tuesday, this part of the January 6th investigation, that makes the former White House speechwriter the first known witness to testify since the DOJ appointed a special counsel to oversee the criminal investigations involving former President Trump.

GOLODRYGA: Let's get to CNN Senior Crime and Justice Katelyn Polantz for more on this. So, Katelyn, what makes Stephen Miller potentially a key witness in the special counsel's probe here?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Jim and Bianna, it's that Stephen Miller was there on January 6th with Donald Trump. He was in the White House. He was having conversations with the president.

We know that there are several people that the prosecutors who have been working on this January 6th investigation, and now Special Counsel Jack Smith and his office have been pursuing for information about what was going on in the west wing. There are top Pence advisers, there are top people from the White House Counsel's Office. Now there's Stephen Miller going into the grand jury, talking to investigators and the grand jury about what happened.

And what we know about what Miller witnessed, we already know a little from the House select committee investigation, and that was Miller was working as Trump's chief speechwriter on January 6th. So, as Trump was preparing to deliver this address to the crowds, to his supporters who then went and rioted at the Capitol, tried to block Congress, Miller had a had a 25-minute conversation with the president. And after that conversation into the Trump speech went words of Mike Pence, essentially this idea telling the supporters that there should be pressure on Pence to block the election. Eventually, Miller took that out, it got back in, but he would have been witness to that gearing up for Trump's speech at The Ellipse.

GOLODRYGA: All right. Katelyn Polantz, thank you, we'll be watching this closely. Also happening in Washington, a major win for the Department of Justice. Oath Keepers leader Stewart Rhodes and another high-ranking member of the far-right militia group, Kelly Meggs, both found guilty of seditious conspiracy for their roles around the January 6th Capitol attack. The two face a 20-year maximum sentence on that charge.

SCIUTTO: A jury convicted all five defendants, including the other three defendants, Kenneth Harrelson, Jessica Watkins and Thomas Caldwell, of obstructing an official proceeding, which also carries a maximum sentence of 20 years.

Joining us now, CNN Senior Law Enforcement Analyst Andrew McCabe, he's a former deputy director of the FBI.

[10:20:00]

Andy good to have you on this morning.

Elliot Williams made a great point in the last hour to say that these are significant because they're hard to prove, right, seditious conspiracy, but they're also not frequently charged for the simple fact that people don't often try to overthrow the government or disrupt the peaceful transfer of power. Tell us the significance, in your view, of these convictions.

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I would certainly echo my good friend, Elliot's comments. He's absolutely right about that, and, thankfully, right, that this is a -- it's such an obscenely horrific thing to do to the country and to our process, because that rarely ever happens, which is a good thing for us.

But, Jim, I would turn your viewers' attention to kind of the operational impact of these verdicts. And by that, I mean how these verdicts will impact the ongoing threat of domestic violence extremism. And, hopefully, that very strong message that this is a -- even though it's a hard case to prove and even though it's rarely ever charged, the Justice Department is willing to go there. They have the evidence necessary to bring these charges and they have now shown that they can convince a jury that this sort of activity should be punished to the absolute extent of the law.

So, that sends a very strong message to that extremist community that this sort of behavior will not be tolerated. And I think that's exactly what we have seen in the words of FBI Director Wray, his comments after the verdict said exactly that, this sort of thing will not be tolerated. We will investigate it and punish.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. On that note, it was interesting to hear from Rhodes' ex-wife this morning on CNN This Morning. She was rather surprised at the conviction and relieved, because she said he was able to get away with so many things that she felt never he wouldn't be health to account. She couldn't even get a restraining order against him. But she also noted that she didn't think that would impact his support amongst the ultra right-wing. That said, what do you think that means for preventing future attacks like this? MCCABE: Well, I think she's probably right, but, again, let's look back historically. If you go back to the 1970s and really the rise of the paramilitary side of groups affiliated with the Ku Klux Klan, they started engaging in paramilitary training at compounds, in different places around the country, and then that activity was highlighted by law enforcement, it was charged largely at the state level, and some folks were punished for that, and some of these sites were shut down.

That prompted a change -- not the eradication of the Klan but a change in their tactics. That's when they went through a much more diffused kind of small cell structure, less central oversight. So, that's what we could see here, the message may be received by these right-wing extremists that, hey, we can't be so overt in what we're doing, we can do the paramilitary training, all wear the same uniforms and patches, we have to be a little bit more covert about how we're organizing and deploying ourselves. But the underlying extremist beliefs will not go away.

SCIUTTO: Gosh, a lot of parallels the way terrorist organizations organize themselves.

Andy, every case is different. The evidence is different here. But the similarity between this and the ongoing investigations involving Trump and his allies is the idea of a conspiracy and a conspiracy aiming to disrupt the democratic process, overthrow the election. Do you see -- are there lessons from these convictions here that tell us anything about the potential progress or futures of investigations involving Trump?

MCCABE: Absolutely. Jim, there are shockwaves going out right now from this verdict through the communities of current defendants and their lawyers and potentially future defendants. So, the current defendants are the folks, the Proud Boys trial, and the second Oath Keepers trials, they are reevaluating their defenses right now, realizing that these most serious offenses can be proved.

And for those folks who may be on a next round of indictments, people at the higher levels of people who are responsible for the damage on January 6th, for the organizing of that rally on January 6th, to include potentially the former president. They have to look at the conviction of Stewart Rhodes and say, now, here's a guy who got punished severely not for going to the Capitol, not breaking in, not for fighting with police, he didn't even walk on the ground that day, but it was his organizational activity and his leadership over the plan that really got him in trouble. That opens up a whole new door of potentially culpability for people at the highest level.

SCIUTTO: That's a remarkable point, something we'll watch closely. Andy McCabe, thanks so much.

MCCABE: Thanks.

SCIUTTO: Well, highlighting the U.S. and France's commitment to exploring space. Right now, Vice President Kamala Harris and French President Emmanuel Macron are touring NASA's headquarters here in D.C.

[10:25:01]

Up next more on the French president's visit that includes an official meeting as well with President Biden.

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GOLODRYGA: French President Emmanuel Macron and his wife, Brigitte, are in the U.S. today for the first state visit from a foreign leader since President Biden took office. This hour, Macron will be at NASA headquarters with Vice President Harris.

[10:30:03]

Now, he also plans to visit the State Department and Arlington National Cemetery.