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Biden Welcomes Macron to White House; U.S.-France Relationship in Spotlight; Macron Arrives at White House. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 01, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Bianna Golodryga.

Right now, a critical sit-down set to get underway at the White House. Any moment now President Biden and the first lady will welcome French President Emmanuel Macron and his wife ahead of a bilat between the two leaders. The first state visit of the Biden/Harris administration, the White House hopes that this visit will underscore the deep and enduring relationship between the two countries.

But there are, of course, still plenty of issues the two leaders need to work through, including Russia's war in Ukraine, how to approach China, and any potential tensions still stemming from a U.S.-Australia submarine deal that blindsided the French and cost them a multibillion-dollar defense contract.

But let's begin this hour at the White House. CNN's MJ Lee is standing by on the South Lawn.

So, MJ, what's the president's focus for today?

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bianna, just to set the scene for you a little bit here, we've been outside on the South Lawn of the White House where we've been seeing a military proceeding play out. And, of course, the band is playing as well as we wait any minute for the French president and his spouse, the first lady of France, to arrive for a big arrival ceremony. That's really going to kick off the day.

And then the middle portion of the day, as you talked about, is sort of the working portion of the day, where the two leaders are going to have a lengthy bilateral discussion on so many things that are at the top of their agenda, including the war in Ukraine, as you said, challenges posed by countries like China, like Iran. And the day will end, of course, with the big state dinner.

And one of the reasons, you know, every time there is an official state visit, it is a big deal at the White House. But a reason that there's so much more attention and maybe so much more pomp and ceremony here today and things are sort of on a bigger scale than usual is because the president has not been able to have an official state visit for Covid-related reasons for the two years that he has been in office. So, this is the first time that he is getting to host an event like this.

So, my colleague, Kate Bennett, is reporting that some 400 guests are going to show up to this dinner. It is going to be a large tent at the South Lawn. So, in so many ways, there is a lot of diplomacy and ceremony going into the day.

Just one more thing I'll note on the bilateral meeting that's going to happen later today. China is going to be an incredibly interesting space to watch, particularly because President Biden, as you know, a couple of weeks ago in Bali, had himself a very lengthy meeting with Xi Jinping, the leader of China. And we are old by officials that the two leaders are expected to trade notes on, among other things, how they sort of manage that working relationship with President Xi. So, that's just one of many issues that the two leaders are going to discuss.

And, of course, we're going to be watching that press conference very carefully. A rare opportunity for reporters here and foreign press as well to pose questions to President Biden.

SCIUTTO: MJ Lee, at the White House, thanks so much.

Of course, it's an alliance that goes back all the way to the Revolutionary War.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

SCIUTTO: For more on today's relationship between the two countries, CNN international correspondent Melissa Bell is live in Paris.

And, Melissa, I don't have to tell you how dark the period was between these two countries this time last year after the U.S.-Australia submarine deal, which basically supplanted a deal that France had with Australia to supply them submarines. France took the extraordinary step of recalling its ambassador.

Is that issue behind France and the U.S. now?

MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think there was a question of substance. Of course, there was the loss of that some $60 billion submarine deal to France.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BELL: But there was the way in which it had been announced, Jim. Since Europeans learned about it from a press conference that President Biden had held with his British and Australian counterparts. And I think that almost, as anything else, had really ruffled their feathers. The ambassador recalled. Now, since they've patched things up and both sides we're told by Elysee sources have taken measures to try and restore trust. It really had become an issue of trust.

And yet, things ahead of that bilateral meeting we're going to be following today, not as simple as you might think. After that submarine deal, of course, all the events in Ukraine that brought these transatlantic allies together, various G7 summits, at NATO specifically, Jim, of course. But behind the unity, the question of the consequences of the war on Europe in particular.

We here in Europe are facing a very chilly winter with extremely high energy prices. And the French president is going to be asking for help, cheaper gas prices to help out an ally on that.

But, of course, at the heart of their disagreement is really the European request that they can get some kind of access for some of their companies to the multibillion-dollar American subsidy scheme, to greener energies, the move towards greener energies that's now been passed by Congress. It's due to come into effect in January. Europe says it will be hugely punitive for its own industries.

[09:05:01]

And it doesn't believe that having been so closely allied with the United States over Ukraine it should now be left behind. This is something President Macron spoke to as he had that working lunch at Congress yesterday at Capitol Hill. Fairly bluntly, calling the move super aggressive and asking congressmen he was meeting with to understand the French position. And I think that's something he's going to be very keen to talk to President Biden about.

Of course, we'll have to see what room for maneuver there is on it. But I think there's a sense from the European side, Jim and Bianna, that they haven't been listened to as carefully as they should, nor treated, frankly, to the level of what the Transatlantic Alliance and all that history that you mentioned a moment ago deserves.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, the French calling some of the president's policies overly protectionist. Obviously, that's going to be an issue that they ae going to be discussing as well.

Melissa Bell, thank you.

SCIUTTO: All right, joining us now to discuss, "Axios" managing editor Margaret Talev and "Time" national political correspondent Molly Ball.

You know, it's interesting, this is Biden's first state visit as president. It's actually Macron's second state visit to the U.S. because he had one here under President Trump.

And what's notable here, right, is that relationship was interesting under Trump. Macron trying to establish some sort of rapport there, cooled a bit in the later years. Expecting a lot from the Biden administration, Margaret Talev, but it began with some disappoint. Where does it all stand now?

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Jim, you're absolutely right. I mean if you compare this relationship to the one with the former president, obviously the Macron-Trump relationship was almost cartoonish in terms of, we're all focused on the what - the size of the parade or the weird bro-man handshake. But there was so much theater. Here, there's much less of that kind of drama, but the drama behind the scenes started right out of the gate with this conflict over a submarine deal that cost France billions of dollars.

Now you see a really interesting bifurcation because, of course, Europe, including France, is very happy that the Biden administration is a clear supporter of NATO, clearly embracing the Transatlantic Alliance. You know, they've been important allies, although slightly different positions on Ukraine. But you have those economic tensions. And this is like where the rubber meets the road. In every international relationship, both leaders have their own domestic considerations, as well as their shared international considerations.

For Biden, this Inflation Reduction Act, the key vote from Joe Manchin was hugely important for Biden domestically, but it made it harder for non-U.S. automakers in the EV space to sell their products to the United States. So that is a huge amount of conflict between the U.S. and France right now. And so I think you see they're going to be talking about really important areas of agreement on Iran, on China, you know, and on Ukraine, but the sort of trade tensions, and Macron saying, hey, our U.S. environmental policy is protectionist, is something that's going for Biden going to hurt Macron.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TALEV: How much pain does Macron have to endure. These are kind of the underlying tensions as this visit starts.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, and in terms of the economic impact that this war has had on Europe, specifically when it comes to gas prices, France has not suffered as much as other European countries, namely Germany, because France has not depended as much on Russian oil and they've invested heavily in nuclear technology.

That having been said, Molly Ball, this is coming at a time when NATO, yes, has been unified around this war, but we're starting to see some fissures here and we are now focused on a potential price cap on Russian oil that's being negotiated now amongst EU members. That's likely going to be coming up today as well.

MOLLY BALL, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "TIME": That's right. And that's obviously another really important area of focus for both of these countries. You know, I think, as Margaret was saying, if you sort of pull back the lens from some of the more immediate conflicts and controversies, this relationship is such a perfect window into the difference between this administration and the last one, where, you know, I think a lot of people in the White House feel that the president hasn't necessarily gotten enough credit for the promises that he's been able to keep on foreign policy where so much of what he talked about coming into the White House was repairing those relationships with allies, that - that, you know, he argued that Trump had been so destructive to. And that we saw, you know, Trump, obviously, undermining NATO and the alliance, but also just generally, having, you know, different relationships with our traditional allies. Biden coming in promising to repair that. But, at the same time, as Margaret was talking about, continuing a lot of the Trump policies on trade, not necessarily unwinding various tariffs -

SCIUTTO: Yes.

BALL: And then implementing new policies, like the Inflation Reduction Act, that also had similar effects. And so that is, obviously, going to be an issue under discussion and a major point of tension here.

[09:10:05]

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes, protectionism, you can argue, with regards to Europe, China. Now a bipartisan U.S. approach to those countries.

We are waiting for the president and the first lady to greet the French president and first lady, Ms. Brigitte Macron. Also president -- Vice President Harris and the first gentlemen, Douglas Emhoff. A lot of pomp and circumstance at these events here. You see the military guard there with the U.S. flag and the French flag as they await, in just moments here. That will be followed by a joint press conference at 11:45 between President Biden and Macron, as well as a bilateral meeting between the two leaders.

As we watch and wait, we have just about a minute to go before that official part of the ceremony starts.

Melissa, expectations from the French side for this visit?

BELL: Expectations, I would say, not that high. I think the French president, even as he goes in with that tough talk that we began to hear yesterday, will no doubt continue today, Jim, understands, as Margaret was saying a moment ago, that the Inflation Reduction Act was extremely important for the American president. That these are measures that need to be taken domestically, of course. But he needs to be able to make Europe's voice heard.

And, again, because Europe has felt not only that it hasn't been treated right's as a transatlantic partner should on the substance of a number of issues, including this one, but on the form, that it hasn't been kept informed, that it hasn't been looked after and given the love that it feels it deserves.

So, we're going to hear from him on all of those issues. And he is, of course, speaking on behalf of all Europeans. It is the German automobile sector that's likely to be hardest hit Europe-wide. They could prepare their own subsidy measures. If ever there was no room for maneuver in retaliation. But it is avoiding that kind of trade war towards which we are slowly headed that he's going to try and find some room for concession, some room for maneuver.

And, of course, for the president, on a personal basis, that he has a much easier relationship with than he did the last time he visited Washington for a state visit, Jim.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, and, Margaret, you know, you talk about this delicate dance that the president's going to have to manage in this meeting because it's coming when you've got unrest, political unrest. We have a little bit more civility in the United Kingdom. Things didn't look that way just a few months ago in terms of the turnover there in prime ministers.

You have Angela Merkel no longer the head of Germany. A much less profiled leader there in that country. So, in many ways, one could argue that President Biden is hoping to bring President Macron up to that level of the so-called leader of Europe right now.

TALEV: Well, you're right that there has been so much instability. I actually think this visit is much easier now than it would have been a month ago, which is why it didn't happen a month ago. But Biden is in a much stronger position after the sort of minimized losses of Democrats. That's important.

But, yes, and winter is coming. And winter for Europe, winter for Ukraine could be devastatingly difficult and expensive. So, this is really about Europe's vulnerabilities and France's vulnerabilities, as much as U.S. domestic vulnerabilities.

SCIUTTO: IT's a great point because when you look at the costs that average Europeans are paying for this war, they far exceed what Americans are feeling right now. You have the principal energy suppliers for Europe cut off, being Russia, cut off, and they've got to find new supplies as winter is coming. And that's led to higher costs both for families and for manufacturers.

Let's listen in here as we are just moments away from the arrival of President Macron and the French first lady, Brigitte Macron, to be greeted by the President, Jill Biden, and the vice president and the first gentlemen.

Let's listen in.

(LIVE AT THE WHITE HOUSE)

[09:15:23]

GOLODRYGA: And as we are awaiting for the arrival of the French president and the French first lady, Molly, what's notable also on the agenda today will be China. And we saw that meeting between President Biden and President Xi in China. Better than many had expected, though the bar was very low.

There's also the French component and the European component in terms of the relationship with China. And President Macron opened the door to a potential visit to China himself sometime next year. Once again highlighting the difference in relations between the countries, European countries and China and the United States and China.

BALL: There is a difference. I mean there's also a similarity, right? I mean I think for both of these countries, or continents, it's a very delicate relationship with China. And it all comes against the backdrop of the recent protests there and the various forms of unrest and difficulty that China is facing.

So, you know, the White House has faced questions over whether they are being, you know, sufficiently strong on the issue of the protests, the lockdown protests in China. And so it's certainly going to be a matter under discussion as, you know, the French and the United States are both seeking to navigate that tricky relationship.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

It's taken some pushing for the U.S. with Europe. The U.S. was more standoffish, you might say, with China, particularly on issues of technology such as Huawei. But over time those views have become morale lined between the U.S. and its European allies.

(LIVE AT THE WHITE HOUSE)

ANNOUNCER: Ladies and gentlemen, distinguished guests, the president of the United States and Dr. Biden.

SCIUTTO: A notable moment there to see the leaders exchanging kisses on each cheek.

[09:20:05]

During the pandemic era, that wouldn't have happened, nor would this state visit. As we noted, this is the first state visit that President Biden has held since taking office, although it is Macron's second state visit as president. He visited here when Trump was president in April of 2018.

You can see the two presidents there meeting the U.S. vice president, Kamala Harris, and the second gentleman just to the left, Douglas Emhoff. Secretary of State Antony Blinken also visible in line there. I believe I see Janet Yellen and others.

You can say the U.S. rolling out the red carpet in every way for the French president and his wife, Brigitte Macron, here.

MJ Lee is - is - yes, that is -- that is Janet Yellen.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

SCIUTTO: MJ Lee is in the crowd for us there.

What else of note during this greeting with full state honors for the French president?

LEE: Well, Jim, there is just so much symbolism here, right, as you expect from any official state visit. I don't think we've talked about this yet, so I should tell you, there was an exchange of gifts, which is customary for a visit like this. I'll just walk you through a couple of the things that the French side has presented to the Bidens as a part of this visit. There was a vinyl and a CD of the original soundtrack of a French film. This film happens to be, we are told, the first film that the Bidens went to go see on their first date. So, obviously, personally important to the president and the first lady here. There was also a ceremonial cup, a sweater and a watch. So, a number of things that were presented as gifts to President Biden and the first lady.

And, of course, this is just sort of a continuation and a part of the bigger theme that we are going to see throughout the day, really a mix of the American, the French, you know, in terms of the conversations, of course, that they're going to be having, but also just those themes that we're going to see running throughout the different ceremonial events that we're going to see throughout the day and then culminating at the end of the day in the evening at this big state dinner where, as my colleague was laying out before, a lot of the different themes that we're going to see are going to be a mix of the two countries and the two countries' long running relationship and the two different cultures. So, in that sense, you know, it is just going to be a day filled with so much symbolism.

And I think for President Biden, you know, choosing President Macron for his first state visit, you know, it's a very comfortable place in a lot of ways for him to be in. This is a country that he has talked about as being the oldest ally for the United States. And I should note, too, yes, this is going to be a very long, bilateral meeting that we see later today. But it's certainly not the first time the two men have spoken. In fact, throughout the president's presidency the first two years, the two men have spoken plenty of times on the phone, in person, including most recently, of course, in Bali, Indonesia, on the sidelines of the G20 summit.

You know, one thing that's interesting to note, just to sort of capture how often those conversations happen, you know, President Biden had his big bilateral meeting with the president of China, Xi Jinping. And then, the very next day, there was an emergency meeting that was called in Bali to discuss this missile strike in Poland. And in that meeting, you know, that was another opportunity for President Biden to fill in other leaders, including President Macron, on some of the things that he discussed in that meeting with President Xi.

So, again, I think it's sort of not a surprise that President Biden might have chosen President Macron for his first state visit. It is going to be sort of a, you know, a fun day for him because this is somebody that he is very comfortable with, in addition to, of course, being a day that is filled with a lot of work.

GOLODRYGA: And as we're waiting to hear the national anthems from both countries, we should note the two couples also had dinner last night at a seafood restaurant in Washington, D.C., as well.

LEE: Particularly because President Macron's wife is here. So the four of them, President Biden, First Lady Jill Biden, President Macron and his wife, Brigitte, they went out to dinner in Georgetown.

I'm just going to let you guys listen to the ceremony.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Yes, let's listen in to the anthems.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, let's listen in.

(WHITE HOUSE CEREMONY-FRANCE AND U.S. NATIONAL ANTHEMS)

[09:27:34] SCIUTTO: Just heard the - just heard the anthem there, of course, "The Star-Spangled Banner" for the U.S. and "La Marseillaise" for the French, one of the best anthems out there. You've heard it before. Up lifting. Quite a moment here. They are, as we're saying, giving all - all the bells and whistles for a full state visit, including, if you saw in the wide shot there, you might have seen some smoke rising over just beyond the White House. That from a 21-gun salute to greet the French president as part of this official state visit.

And the thought occurred to me, Bianna, both these leaders have some World Cup football to watch this weekend -

GOLODRYGA: That's right.

SCIUTTO: With both the French and the U.S. team advancing at the World Cup.

GOLODRYGA: Exactly. Two superstars, Mbappe (ph), and, obviously, a team full of superstars on the young U.S. team as we're awaiting them taking on Netherlands this Saturday.

A picture perfect day, if not a bit chilly, in Washington, D.C., unlike what we saw yesterday with the torrential rains. It is notable, Margaret, that President Macron spent the day yesterday with Vice President Harris. They visited NASA together. In a sense, once again, you know, the administration here in the U.S. reminding the world, and perhaps those here in - stateside, that she is a partner to him in this administration. She saying last week that if he does choose to run again, which he said he's inclined to, that she will be his running mate.

TALEV: Yes, you know, I think that's right. The - Macron's engagement with the vice president is important. And the place where they were engaging is important as well because NASA, of course, is a place where the U.S. and France can have partnerships both in space exploration and in the cybersecurity space. That's really important.

And the other bookend to this trip is going to be a visit to New Orleans. And, of course, that embodies kind of the past history of the U.S. and France, as well as the future.

I'm just really struck, watching this, and, you know, I've covered many state visits. I got to be a guest at a dinner for one of them. These take months to prepare. They take days to pull off. Just today itself, we're already -- this is just the beginning of it. There are so many -- there's so much pomp and circumstance and bilateral meetings and multilateral meetings and combinations of small bilateral meetings.

[09:30:00]

And I just think in our era of Twitter and TikTok and, hey, my company's all about smart brevity.