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Biden Touts November Jobs Report, Says Economy Is Strengthening; 1.5 Million Early Votes Already Cast Ahead Of GA Runoff Election; Former Trump White House Counsel Cipollone Back In Court Today. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 02, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

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ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello everyone, I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Victor Blackwell. Good to be with you.

President Biden is touting the just released better-than-expected November jobs report. He says it's further evidence that the U.S. economy is moving in the right direction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We continue to create jobs, lots of jobs. And today, we've learned that the economy added 263,000 jobs in November. We've now created 10.5 million jobs since I took office, more than any administration in history at this point in the presidency. Americans are working. The economy is growing, wages are rising faster than inflation, and we've avoided a catastrophic rail strike.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: 263,000 jobs added. It's a robust number but still the lowest monthly gain all year. The unemployment rate held steady at 3.7 percent. Americans are also taking home bigger paychecks, thanks to wage increases. But are these good numbers too hot for the Federal Reserve? Will we see more rate hikes to bring down inflation? With us now, we have CNN reporter Matt Egan, CNN chief White House correspondent Phil Mattingly, and white -- Washington Post opinion columnist and CNN Economics and Political commentator, Catherine Rampell. Great to have all of you.

OK, Matt, what's the answer? So, what will the Fed -- does this affect what the Fed does next?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Alisyn and Victor, I think in normal times, this would be great news, right? 263,000 jobs were added last month stronger than expected. Despite all of these layoffs in the tech sector and elsewhere, we really saw across-the-board strength from sectors. I mean, leisure and hospitality added almost 90,000 jobs last month alone, health care, government -- construction all of them up. None of this you know would suggest an imminent recession.

And the unemployment rate, look, staying at 3.7 percent. That is just a little bit above the half-century low. Set earlier this year, it's down dramatically from almost 15 percent in the spring of 2020. But you know, this is obviously not a normal time. The economy is not dealing with a problem of too few jobs, it's too much inflation. And so, that is why the Federal Reserve, Wall Street -- and even the White House was hoping for a Goldilocks number here, right? Not too hot that it fans inflation, not too cold that it speaks to a recession.

And we didn't get that. I mean, this is -- this is going to be looked at as too hot by the Fed. In particular, wages, wages were supposed to cool off. They didn't. They heated up. 5.1 percent year over year for wages. For context, that's about twice the pre-COVID pace.

Now, if you're a worker, I mean, that is good news because your paycheck is getting hammered by inflation and so you're trying to catch up. But the Fed is trying to cool wages off because they're worried about inflation. So, all of this does suggest that the Fed is going to have to continue to slam the brakes on the economy. They're trying to cool things off by raising borrowing costs. This suggests that they're going to have to continue to raise interest rates, not just the meeting coming up later this month, but into next year. And, of course, the worry here is that the longer they have to raise rates, the higher they have to raise them, the greater the risk that they cause the recession.

BLACKWELL: And we just heard from the Fed chair who said that moderating the pace of these increases could come soon. We'll see what they decide in a couple of weeks. Catherine, let me come to you now. The president says this is evidence that the economy is moving in the right direction, considering all that context, is it?

CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN ECONOMICS AND POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, overall, the report looks pretty good on the surface, right? As we've been discussing, the jobs numbers were stronger than expected. Unemployment is still near record lows. You saw job growth in most sectors. That's all good news.

But the problem is -- well, a few things. One is that the labor force participation rate again fell. So, this is basically the share of adult Americans who are either working or looking for work. It has been down quite a bit since COVID hit. It had been recovering the last few months, it's been going down.

[14:05:01]

That's not good news for labor shortages, right? We still have a lot of job openings relative to the number of workers available. That in turn will feed into inflation. It has in the past. And as Matt pointed out, we've seen hotter-than-expected wage growth, which it's a little counterintuitive. You think that's a good thing, right?

BLACKWELL: Yes. RAMPELL: But the Fed is concerned that the level of wage growth that we have seen today is not consistent to U.S. Fed Chair Jay Powell's term with, you know, more moderate inflation with their target level of inflation. So, they were hoping to see wage growth cool off a little bit. And now the question becomes how does the Fed react? Even though this report doesn't look like we're in a recession, how does the Fed react to that? And do they have to correct or overcorrect so much that we end up in a recession next year?

CAMEROTA: Phil, the White House says they're laser-focused on inflation. So, what are they doing?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, what's interesting right now, and I'm -- and I'm not pausing because I don't have a good answer. I'm pausing because there are so many different elements from the White House perspective that they're trying with the full acknowledgment that there is no single silver bullet. The Fed is the institution. The Fed is the place where inflation is going to be reined into some degree. And it may take time. It's certainly taken longer than I think a lot of people expected.

And that complicates things for the reasons that Matt and Catherine laid out. The very real possibility that many of the gains that the administration has seen in its first two years could end up being set back significantly if the Fed goes too fast, for too long here. And I think that's kind of one of the concerns you see -- you've heard quietly, at least the White House officials don't talk about. The Fed, it's an independent entity, but in terms of the underlying kind of elements of this jobs report right here.

But the other issue here that I think is most interesting, you hear the president talk about. I don't know that I could remember, and Catherine would certainly be able to correct me if I'm wrong on this one but a better week of economic data for this administration overall. Not just on the jobs number top line, but when you're looking at your gas prices that are now at a level that are pre-Russia's invasion of Ukraine, you talk about jobless claims ticking down again, GDP being revised upwards, and most importantly, kind of one of the critical gauges that the Fed uses for an inflation clearly cooling showing moderation, starting to give a trend line that perhaps might be headed in the right direction, until today's job report, so White House officials constantly grappling with an economy that's in a very strange place.

The most important thing, though, when you talk to White House officials, obviously inflation, but what didn't happen this week, in large part because of what happened on Capitol Hill, obviously, the ability for the president to call for and get action to avert a rail strike. It didn't have one of the critical elements that obviously the union workers who rejected the initial proposal. This is what the President said about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: We still have more work to do, in my view, in terms of ultimately getting paid sick leave, not just for rail workers, but for every worker in America. That is a goal I had at the beginning and I'm coming back at it. I know this bill doesn't have paid sick leave that these rail workers and frankly, every worker in America deserve, but that fight isn't over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And what I'd say about that is this has been something the president's actually pushed for since he first came into office. It was in his kind of cornerstone economic legislative proposals initially, but it ended up dropping out. There's no clear pathway for that actually to be enacted. But if you want to know what matters most to the White House, avoiding economic collapse at all costs. That's what they did, even if they had to compromise on an issue from one of their most supportive political allies, labor unions, guys.

BLACKWELL: All right, Phil Mattingly, Matt Egan, Catherine Rampell, thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, almost 1.5 million votes have already been cast in Georgia ahead of next week's Senate runoff election. This is between, of course, incumbent Democratic senator Raphael Warnock and Republican challenger Herschel Walker.

BLACKWELL: Now, today is the last day to vote early. CNN's Eva McKend is in Atlanta tracking both campaigns. Eva, every time we come to you there is a long line stretched behind you that sometimes the wait is an hour, maybe two, what do you see now and what are you hearing?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: Well, today, it's actually not so bad at this location here in Atlanta. It's about a 35-minute wait. Earlier in the week, it was about two hours at another location. But this is the last day that people can vote early in this state before Tuesday.

What we're hearing -- we're hearing Senator Warnock and Herschel Walker now closing in on their final arguments here in the state. Senator Warnock says that this contest is principally about character and competence and that Herschel Walker is devoid of both. Senator Warnock has also spent quite a bit of time arguing that he is willing to work with Republicans if ultimately, it helps Georgians. That's really a pitch for moderate and independent voters, voters, of course, that are really crucial in this battleground state of Georgia.

Walker's closing argument has been less focused, but it could be argued that it is maybe -- perhaps largely an economic one. He says that Senator Warnock is too closely aligned with President Biden, Biden's economic agenda, and votes with the President 96 percent of the time.

[14:10:00]

Now, what we saw last week is a big boost of energy for Democrats with former President Barack Obama returning to Georgia. He was here during the general election as well to stump for Senator Warnock. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Since the last time I was here, Mr. Walker has been talking about issues that are of great importance to the people of Georgia. Like whether it's better to be a vampire or a werewolf. This is a debate that I must confess I once had myself when I was seven.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: So, something that jumped out at me about the demographics here of what we're seeing in this early turnout, about 33 percent of the turnout during this early period is black Georgians. That could spell some trouble for Republicans. We know that, by and large, that black voters tend to vote in big numbers for Democrats. But listen, Democrats have really focused their ground game on this early effort. We do not hear Republicans talk about it as much. So, I suspect that a lot of Republicans are actually going to be coming out on Tuesday, Alisyn, Victor.

CAMEROTA: OK. Eva McKend, thank you. And join CNN for our special coverage of the Georgia runoff between Senator Raphael Warnock and challenger Herschel Walker. Our coverage starts Tuesday at 4:00 p.m.

BLACKWELL: One of Trump's crucial White House attorneys giving additional testimony in the DOJ investigation. What that means? We'll get into that next.

CAMEROTA: And Ukraine's Foreign Minister speaks exclusively with CNN about the letter bombs recently sent to Ukrainian diplomats around the world. Who he thinks is behind it? Next.

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[14:16:13]

CAMEROTA: One former President Trump's lead White House attorneys, Pat Cipollone was spotted entering the U.S. District courthouse this morning. This follows a federal judge's order that Cipollone and his deputy Patrick Philbin have to give additional grand jury testimony in the DOJ's investigation about the attempts to overturn the 2020 election.

BLACKWELL: Also happening today. The January 6 committee is holding one of its final meetings likely to discuss the panel's final report. Katelyn Polantz is a CNN senior crime and justice reporter. Dave Aronberg is the state attorney for Palm Beach County. Welcome to you both.

Dave, let me start with you and this decision that Patrick Philbin, Pat Cipollone will have to speak with the grand jury, a big loss for the Trump team, how big?

DAVE ARONBERG, STATE ATTORNEY, PALM BEACH COUNTY: It's a big loss, Victor. But I think Trump anticipated he was going to lose. His strategy is to delay, delay, delay. And Cipollone and Philbin, they apparently gave Trump the right advice regarding January 6 but Trump didn't listen. And so, I think they're going to testify.

And I think they may want to do this because they don't want to look like a traitor to the MAGA cause. They know snitches get stitches. And so, I think they want to be compelled by a court to show the former president and the MAGA world, hey, my hands are tied. We have to do this.

CAMEROTA: And, Katelyn, do we know what more they can offer?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Victor and Alisyn, there are questions that they have never answered to anyone before in this investigation. They were interviewed both by the House Select Committee and declined to answer some questions. Obviously, they had been into the grand jury once before, answered many questions probably very much similar to what they had been telling the House had happened on those days.

But there are certain things. Legal advice they gave directly to the president. Conversations they directly had with Donald Trump, maybe on January 6, on that particular day, leading up to that day. Those are the sorts of things that they would have been declining to answer because Donald Trump was trying to block them from answering them. And that they now will have to answer to a grand jury because of the judge's decision here.

BLACKWELL: What do we expect from this final report coming from the January 6 committee, Katelyn?

POLANTZ: Well, this final report is going to wrap up everything here. And there are a bunch of decisions that the House Select Committee still has to decide upon. Are there other contempt referrals they may want to make? Were there people they subpoenaed for information, including other lawmakers in Congress that never responded to them, what do they do with that? What do they do with Donald Trump's unwillingness to be responsive to their subpoena for his testimony and documents? What also will they do related to criminal referrals?

Now, we never expected there to be a resolution on that today. And that is, you know, one of those very delicate issues. So, there could be more things too, that they have learned in the recent weeks, but also, they're going to have to finalize their final report and exactly what else they're going to say both to the public and to the Justice Department.

CAMEROTA: Dave, can I ask you about these lawmakers? We have a graphic of the five Republican lawmakers who flouted the subpoena from the January 6 committee. So, they didn't -- they didn't respond to a subpoena and now the committee is trying to decide what to do about that and if they're going to recommend criminal referrals. If we, regular people, flouted a subpoena, wouldn't there be some consequence? I mean, what's the argument for not, you know, referring them for criminal charges?

ARONBERG: Well, I can tell you, the legislators themselves, the members of Congress think they're above the law, and they should be referred. But it's up to Merrick Garland to make that final decision. He did come through when it came to Steve Bannon. He came through to others but not when it came to Dan Scavino, not when it came to Mark Meadows. And so, that's why it's uncertain whether a referral will mean anything because ultimately it's up to Merrick Garland, and he has not always had the committee's back.

BLACKWELL: Dave, I know that a criminal referral is not necessary for any of the charges relating to January 6. DOJ has its own investigation. But for this defying a subpoena, would they need that referral from Congress to file those charges, or could the DOJ do it without the referral?

[14:20:22]

ARONBERG: When it comes to a congressional subpoena, Victor, first, the committee has to vote. And then it goes to the full House.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

ARONBERG: And the House then has to make the referral to DOJ. One thing, though, is that despite whoever controls Congress, once DOJ gets it in their hands, they -- how horses left the barn. And it doesn't matter who runs Congress. But you got to get to that stage. And then it's really up to Merrick Garland to make the decision. So, we'll see.

He's been reluctant to look -- to be seen as political. And I think if he goes after Kevin McCarthy and others, he may look political. And that's something that this attorney general doesn't want. So, I wouldn't expect him to file any more charges for contempt against other members of Congress.

CAMEROTA: OK. Katelyn, meanwhile, House Democrats now have President Trump's taxes after years of him refusing to show the public, refusing to show anyone, they have gotten their hands on it in this special committee. What will they do with those?

POLANTZ: Right, Alisyn. I mean, it really has been years. The House Ways and Means Committee, we know that they do have access -- they have the ability to access tax returns that they had requested years ago. The ones that we know that they were interested in were the ones basically when Donald Trump was serving in the presidency, 2015 to 2020, his personal IRS federal tax returns, as well as tax returns related to eight of his businesses.

However, there is a very delicate dance. A lot of legal issues around tax returns. Generally, there's privacy laws. And so, we know that the House Ways and Means Committee is getting legal advice right now about what they're going to do. They don't have a lot of time to figure it out, but they will have to make some choices. And it is going to have to be within the law. So, it remains to be seen whether we actually -- the public would be able to see anything from these tax returns.

BLACKWELL: All right. Thank you, Katelyn. Thank you, Dave.

CAMEROTA: So, President Biden is in Boston. He's getting ready to meet with Prince William and we'll bring that to you live. BLACKWELL: And one man is telling his amazing story of how he survived after falling from a cruise ship and treading water in the Gulf for more than 15 hours. You will hear from him ahead.

CAMEROTA: I can't wait to hear from him.

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[14:27:16]

CAMEROTA: In a CNN exclusive interview, Ukraine's foreign minister is revealing new details about a series of threatening and dangerous letters sent to Ukrainian diplomats.

BLACKWELL: Dmytro Kuleba says that there have been 17 cases of embassies receiving letters containing explosives, or animal parts. CNN's senior international correspondent Matthew Chance is live with us now with that interview. Why is this happening? What's going on here?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Victor. It is very strange, very disturbing, indeed. And it's why the foreign minister invited me over to the ministry a few hours ago to specifically talk about this issue. He's clearly very disturbed about it. And he said he believed it was all about sowing terror amongst Ukrainian diplomats around the world. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DMYTRO KULEBA, UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, it started with an explosion at the Embassy of Ukraine in Spain. But what followed was this explosion was more weird, and I will even say sick because we started receiving letters with eyes -- animal eyes cut off.

CHANCE: Animal eyes?

KULEBA: Animal eyes, yes. In some cases -- in one case, it's most probably an eye of a cow and an eye of a pig in another case.

CHANCE: Let me ask you. Who do you suspect? Who does Ukraine suspect of being behind this?

KULEBA: Well, of course, I feel tempted to say -- to name Russia straightaway because first of all, you have to answer the question who benefits from that? And it's definitely this campaign is aimed at sowing fear and terrorizing Ukrainian diplomats. I think it's either Russia itself or someone who sympathizes with the Russian cause.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE: Or somebody who sympathizes with the Russian cause or Russia itself. Russia, of course, has not responded yet to those allegations. And the foreign minister made the point that there is an investigation underway in all of the countries where these letters have been received. And they're determined, they say, to get to the bottom of who's behind it. BLACKWELL: Stunning that these letters will be sent. Matthew Chance for us there in Kyiv, thank you, Matthew.

CAMEROTA: So, the unprecedented protests in China against COVID lockdowns appear to be having an impact. Beijing is scrapping its negative test requirements for bus and subway passengers. And the capital city is also no longer requiring COVID testing for those with minimal social activities who stay at home. And the top official in charge of the COVID response says China will look to soften some restrictions. He says the time has come to tweak measures.

Let's talk about this and more with Ian Bremmer.