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FBI Investigates North Carolina Power Station Attack; January 6 Committee Decides to Make Criminal Referrals to Justice Department; Georgia Votes. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 06, 2022 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:02]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: The Fox Corporation chairman will appear through a videoconference one week from today.

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Thanks for joining INSIDE POLITICS today. I hope to see you as part of our election coverage tonight.

Ana Cabrera picks up our coverage now, right now.

ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: Hello, and thanks so much for joining us. I'm Ana Cabrera in New York.

Georgia voters get the last word once again, because after weeks of brutal campaign ads, rallies, big-name appearances, midterm voting officially will be over and so will the battle for the final seat in the Senate, incumbent Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock facing Republican challenger Herschel Walker.

And while Democrats already have retained control of the Senate, this race matters and stands to send a big message to Washington.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher is outside a polling station in Atlanta, and John Berman is here with me at the Magic Wall.

Dianne, let me start with you.

It's been a long, heated campaign for these two candidates. What's their final pitch?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, both campaigns have the same broad final pitch, and that is, if you have not already voted, get out and vote. They had hard pushes yesterday, both campaigns out trying to appeal to their bases and make sure that they could get these Election Day votes.

Now, the incumbent Democrat, Senator Raphael Warnock, has been leaning hard on his Senate experience, the two years that he's already been in office, talking about what he's accomplished and what he has yet to do. He is also trying to characterize his opponent as someone who is not just unfit for office, but somebody who perhaps wouldn't even take it seriously.

Now, for Herschel Walker, look, he has been trying to cast himself as a roadblock, essentially, for President Joe Biden, trying to appeal to the Republican base here in the state of Georgia, and make up some of those undervotes, some of those votes that were between him and the Republican Governor Brian Kemp in the general election. He got fewer votes than the governor did.

And so trying to find those votes, convince people to come out on Tuesday, and appeal to their bases has essentially been this closing message here.

CABRERA: And you're there in heavy Warnock territory today. What are those voters telling you about their decision today?

GALLAGHER: So we're in Southwest Atlanta, and you don't see long lines behind me. That's a good thing for voters. They are still coming in steady, one to two minutes. And they're in and out and voting, but they are coming to vote.

And they're talking to me about why they're choosing Senator Warnock to go back to the Senate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: What made you vote on Election Day this year, instead of early voting?

DR. COURTNIE OWENS, ATLANTA VOTER: The nostalgia of it all. I wouldn't want the other person to think that they were going to get it. So I just felt like today to be here, to give Warnock this, to be a part of this, it meant a lot. It meant more -- much more today than it has in any other previous run-off election.

CORNELIA MILLER, ATLANTA VOTER: I was going to vote rain, shine, sleet, or snow today.

My pastor asked us Sunday, who did early vote? And I was so embarrassed because I couldn't raise my hand.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: And, look, a lot of people, obviously, more than 1.85 million people early voted...

CABRERA: Well, we just lost Dianne there.

Let me pivot to John Berman.

Thank you, Dianne, for your reporting there.

OK, here's the deal. Democrats, we know, will control the Senate, whether it's 50-50, because they will have a tiebreaker with Kamala Harris, or 51-49. So explain why that one extra seat matters so much. JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Yes, it absolutely matters.

This is where we are as we sit here at 1:00 in the afternoon. You can see Democrats have 50 seats, Republicans have 49. If Republicans win this, it'll be 50-50. But Democrats, this is what they want. They want 51-49. Why? Because of a few things here.

As you said, first of all, the vice president won't be needed to break a tie. I will skip to number three here. But, first of all, this is no temp job, right? Senate seats are six-year terms. Raphael Warnock, if he wins, will be in there for a long time. And Democrats think two years from now might be a tougher environment. So it's important for them to get this seat now.

The second issue here is committee makeup. This is really the big thing. This last Congress, Democrats and Republicans have held an equal number of seats on every committee, so a lot of stuff has -- get bottled up in the committee. It slows things down. And it forced Chuck Schumer to pass things on the full floor, and it's made it harder for him.

As we sit, generally speaking, the vice president will not be needed as much to break a tie. And finally here, it's sort of insurance for the Democratic leaders for Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, who have been Democrats who have occasionally not voted with them. There have been some votes where they have lost one or are the other of them. So that extra vote might make a difference.

[13:05:03]

Of course, all of this is mitigated by the fact that Republicans control the House, so there won't be maybe as much legislation, but it will certainly matter on nominations.

CABRERA: OK, as far as tonight, our special coverage is going to begin at 4:00 here on CNN. What are you watching? Which counties should we be looking at?

BERMAN: All right, let me call up the results from just one month ago. It wasn't that long ago we were talking about Georgia.

You can see, Raphael Warnock, he edged out Herschel Walker just by 37,000 votes. There are three counties here that I have my eye on, Jefferson county, Sumter County, and Clay County. Why, you ask? There are 159 counties. Why these three counties?

Because these are the three counties that were won by the Democratic Senate candidate, Raphael Warnock, but also won by the Republican gubernatorial candidate, Brian Kemp, just three out of 159 that split their ticket. And Herschel Walker, as Dianne pointed out, he got 200,000 fewer votes than the Republican candidate for governor, Brian Kemp, here.

So, Herschel Walker, he needs to pick up some of these counties, some of these areas where the Republican gubernatorial candidate, Brian Kemp, did well. That's where he's got to close some of this margin, Ana.

CABRERA: Everyone's trying to read the tea leaves before we count all the votes. What about the early vote? There was a lot of enthusiasm, right?

BERMAN: Yes, absolutely.

I can show you the early vote was interesting. One point -- we're looking at the Georgia Senate. The first was -- oh, this is a timeline here.

There were 1.8 million early votes, which seems like a lot, 1.8 million votes, which is a lot. And they had record-setting days. However, I kept the results from one month ago up, because, in this election one month ago, there were 2.3 million early votes. There was actually fewer early votes now than then.

The question is, how much of a percentage of the overall vote will this beat? Will there be a huge Election Day turnout, where Republicans tend to do better? Or will this 1.8 million we have seen already be the vast majority of votes? We just don't know. We have to wait until the polls call today to get that answer, Ana.

CABRERA: OK, John Berman, thank you.

Remember, Georgia held two Senate run-offs just in January of this past year. So that's a lot of pivotal voting in less than two years. But instead of high burnout, we're seeing high turnout in the Peach State, as we just ran through with John there.

Let's discuss with "Atlanta Journal-Constitution" political reporter Patricia Murphy.

Thanks so much, Patricia, for taking a few moments with us.

What do you think is driving the voter enthusiasm here? Is it something specific to these recent Georgia races or is it part of the national political moment?

PATRICIA MURPHY, "THE ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION": Well, we are in a situation here in Georgia where it almost seems like Election Day has never ended since 2020.

And so what I hear from a lot of Georgia voters that they want this to be over, they're ready for the Senate seat to be decided once and for all, but they want to be a part of deciding it. They voted for a two- year term for Raphael Warnock in 2021. That obviously had to go to a run-off.

We have been through a couple of other statewide elections so far. So, this is what they feel like. This is the final test for Herschel Walker, for Donald Trump. This is the last chance for Donald Trump to pick up a win here in Georgia for himself.

But down here in Atlanta as well, it really feels like just the time to put the Senate seat to rest, Raphael Warnock, if he wins, will get a six-year term. Otherwise, it would be Herschel Walker in there for six years as well.

CABRERA: So, last night, you were at a Walker rally, one of his final campaign events. You tweeted a photo showing pretty thin crowd. Not exactly sure when this was taken. So did that crowd grow? And what was your big takeaway from that event?

MURPHY: That crowd did not grow.

And this is in the same venue. It's an indoor gun range here outside of Atlanta, an exurb in Atlanta. That is typically very, very Republican. Donald Trump Jr. had an event there in 2020, filled up the entire room, standing room only. Really, you had to just squash yourself in there, nowhere to park.

Last night, for Herschel Walker, it was one of a series of events that he's had there, and just thinner crowds than we were seeing in the general election. He had a shorter speech. His wife spoke as well. It just did not have that same level of intensity that we felt ahead of the general election. He even had an event in the (AUDIO GAP) venue, much, much larger crowd.

And so we know crowd size doesn't determine everything, but it does feel like the enthusiasm and the intensity from the Walker campaign and from the Walker fans has really drained out just a bit.

CABRERA: One big red flag for the Walker campaign last month in the general election was that roughly 200,000 people who voted for the Republican governor, Brian Kemp, did not vote for Walker.

What's your sense? Are those voters sitting this one out? Is the Walker campaign confident that they can tap into those voters?

MURPHY: That's the big question here. That will decide who wins this Senate seat.

Raphael Warnock has run a campaign during the general election and the run-off to pick up independent voters and even some Republican voters with just a moderate series of issues and also very economy-focused. Herschel Walker has been much more focused on social issues, talking about transgender athletes, calling Raphael Warnock a liar, just a very aggressive campaign.

[13:10:07]

And so watch in the northern swathe of exurban counties outside of Atlanta, Forsyth County, Henry County. Those are Republican counties, but Walker trailed Governor Kemp by six to eight points in some of those counties, so just that huge gap that really made the difference between him and Brian Kemp.

If he doesn't start to make up ground in that northern arc of exurban counties in Atlanta, he's going to have a lot of trouble closing the gap with Raphael Warnock.

CABRERA: Patricia Murphy, we will know in a matter of hours where things are headed. Thank you so much for taking the time. I know you might have a long night tonight. Good luck.

MURPHY: Thank you.

CABRERA: Let's go to Washington now and a major development out of the January 6 Select Committee.

With that probe winding down, the house panel says it is planning to send criminal referrals to the justice department.

CNN's Sara Murray is on the Hill for us.

Sara, this is a big deal. Do we know what crimes are in play and who could be the targets of these referrals?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is a big deal, because this is really the culmination of the committee's work.

And we were talking to Bennie Thompson, myself and some other reporters, today, the chairman of the committee, and he said: We will make criminal referrals.

He did not, though, say that they have narrowed down the universe of people they may refer. The committee later have put out a statement saying that they're still deciding on the specifics. Those decisions will come in the day ahead. We're expecting this committee to be meeting later today.

We know they have been looking at potential evidence of perjury, obstruction of justice, witness tampering. We expect all that to be part of the discussion. A source also tells my colleague Annie Grayer that they are going to focus when it comes to criminal referrals on the main organizers and leaders of the attack.

So, there are still a lot of details the committee has to flesh out, beyond the top line that they are going to do these criminal referrals. Now, when they do them, they will send them to the Justice Department. And the Justice Department then decides what they want to do about that.

Merrick Garland is certainly not going to take his cues from Congress, but they will look those over. They will weigh what they want to do going forward. We should also note that DOJ's investigation is in a very different place now that the committee is wrapping up its work than where it was when the committee began.

We know that they had been investigating the January 6 attack on the Capitol, efforts to subvert the 2020 election. We know they had witnesses before a federal grand jury today. So, DOJ has been moving along. But, for the committee, this is a really significant step. And we have heard from a number of members that they felt like criminal referrals would be important to sort of sum up the amount of evidence they believe they have collected.

CABRERA: OK, Sara Murray, on the Hill, thank you.

Kevin McCarthy's fight to win the House speakership just got a little harder. Just in, hard right Arizona Congressman Andy Biggs says he will challenge McCarthy for the job on January 3, so that means the House Republican leader will have a tougher time snagging that gavel on the first ballot.

McCarthy detractors can now vote for an alternative to run the new House. The next speaker needs 218 votes to win, and the new House will have 222 Republican seats, not a lot of wiggle room there.

Tens of thousands of people entering a fourth day without power, as the FBI tries to find out who attacked two North Carolina power stations with gunfire. How vulnerable is our power grid to these attacks? We will discuss.

Plus: flu season off to a brutal start. But there is good news if you got your shot.

And body odor, a turnoff or turn-on? The truth behind smells and sex. Got to learn something new every day, right? Dr. Sanjay Gupta has the details on this one.

Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:17:55]

CABRERA: The race to restore power is now nearing night four of dark and cold for tens of thousands of people in North Carolina.

The FBI is there on scene helping to investigate who shot up to power stations and why, the damage so far costing millions. And it could still be days before power is fully restored.

CNN's Miguel Marquez joins us now live from the scene.

Miguel, we have learned President Biden was briefed on these attacks. What has the investigation uncovered?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, investigators here are very well aware that everyone across the country is watching what is playing out here and they want to get to the bottom of it.

There is an army of investigators, local, state and federal officials, that are looking into who ever shot up -- or the person or persons who shot up these two substations here. Right now, the officials say that they are taking tips from the public and following everything up.

It does not sound at the moment like they have a specific line of inquiry or something concrete that they are chasing. But they say they have tons of tips out there that they are chasing down and trying to figure out exactly who did this. A spokesperson for Duke Energy that runs the power here and those substations says that they have been able to get power back onto about 2,500 people in the last hour or so.

So now there's about 35,000 people who are without power, Duke Energy also saying that they take security very seriously.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF BROOKS, SPOKESMAN, DUKE ENERGY: We integrate security through multiple layers in all of our operations because we know we're critical infrastructure.

And so some of that is physical protection. Some of that is systems and people. And those processes are all at work now, even as we're working to restore power. There's a lot of things that we will learn from this, a lot of things that we will look at. Our focus today is getting the power back on and helping this community to get back on its feet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: So what makes this one particularly difficult is that these two substations went down in this in the Central North Carolina county, and they were not able -- because of the way the electric grid in this area is configured, they were not able to reroute power to get it to people.

[13:20:05]

They have to physically fix these two substations before those other 35,000 people can get power. They believe that will happen by Thursday. So, there's an army of Duke Energy people working on those two substations, trying to get energy restored, as well as an army of investigators trying to figure out who did this -- Ana.

CABRERA: Miguel Marquez reporting live for us, thank you.

Our next guest is an electrical grid expert. Michael Mabee is joining us now.

Michael, thanks for taking the time.

Police call this a targeted attack. Just how much expertise would someone have to have about how things work to pull this off, to knock out these power stations?

MICHAEL MABEE, ELECTRICAL GRID EXPERT: Very little expertise.

So, physical attack against the electric grid is a very, very low-tech attack. It could be perpetrated by domestic terrorists, a foreign government, or basically anybody who wanted to cause damage and destruction.

Just to put it into context, since 2010, there have been 919 physical attacks against the U.S. electric grid in the United States.

CABRERA: So, when you talk about this vulnerability, are physical attacks like this or cyberattacks the bigger problem? Which threat is more urgent?

MABEE: It -- there are many threats to the electric grid, cyberattacks and physical attacks being two of them. But we have also got, as we have all seen, extreme weather. We have got geomagnetic disturbance, which is a huge threat from solar -- solar flares or solar storms.

We have also got electromagnetic pulse attacks against the United States, which Russia, China, Iran and North Korea all have in their doctrine. So, there are a myriad of threats against the electric grid. And there's absolutely no requirement whatsoever that the electric grid as a whole protect itself from these threats.

And when we're talking about the electric grid, remember, we're talking about over 3,000 different companies, both public and private sector, that are involved in the generation, transmission and distribution of electric power. So that's 3,000 barn doors we have to guard from all of these threats. And there is no federal requirement whatsoever that companies protect themselves against these threats.

CABRERA: And to learn from you that it's not that difficult, shall we say, to physically attack, because you don't have to have a high level of knowledge of how things work or be an expert in the electrical grid, that's alarming.

How do we make these power grids less of a soft target? What needs to happen?

MABEE: What needs to happen is, the federal government -- and the electric grid is the most critical of our critical infrastructures. We have 16 critical infrastructures in the United States. All 16 depend on the electric grid.

So it is the Achilles' heel. The federal government has to mandate that grid operators and owners take prudent measures to protect their portion of the grid from known hazards. That's the only way we can protect the entire electric grid is, we need the federal government to step up and mandate that companies take prudent measures to protect the electric grid against these known hazards.

And one kind of final thought on the physical threat, we have known about this for four decades. In may of 1981, a federal report came out about the lack of physical security of the U.S. electric grid. So this isn't something new. We have known about it for decades, and we have failed to act to protect the grid.

CABRERA: This may be a wakeup call.

Do you worry about copycats?

MABEE: I do. I have actually always worried about the physical threat to the electric grid as being one of the most urgent.

In 2020, I filed a complaint with the federal government about the lack of physical security to the electric grid. And, as part of the complaint, I mapped out through Google Maps part of the electric grid and substations. So it's very low-tech. Anybody can do this.

And the threat exists right now. And as we have just seen in North Carolina, it is a very, very real threat. People die as a result of power outages, as we saw in Texas in 2021, where 250 people died from literally a two-day power outage caused by the weather.

CABRERA: Yes, I mean, it's so cold.

Michael Mabee, thank you very much for taking the time to share your expertise with us.

Ever wonder why we get more colds and flu in the winter? Researchers might have figured it out.

And Nike just did it, the company splitting with NBA star Kyrie Irving after the player promoted an antisemitic film on social media.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:29:52]

CABRERA: Flu season is off to a really rough start. The hospitalization rate is higher than it's been in more than a decade.

The good news, though, the head of the CDC says this year's flu vaccine is a -- quote -- "very good match" to the circulating strains of the virus. But people just aren't getting the shot