Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Chairman: Jan. 6 Committee Has Decided To Make Criminal Referrals; Georgia Voters Head To Polls In Crucial Senate Runoff; NC County Enters 3rd Day Without Power After Substation Attacks. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired December 06, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Hey there, I'm Victor Blackwell. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: And I'm Alisyn Camerota.

It's Election Day again in Georgia, voters turning out one last time to cast their ballot in the Senate runoff race between the Democratic incumbent Raphael Warnock and Republican challenger Herschel Walker. The outcome will have a big impact on what happens in the next Congress. So, we'll take you live to Georgia in a moment.

And in Washington, we're following new developments in the January 6 investigation. The House committee investigating the insurrection says they will make criminal referrals to the Justice Department. A source tells CNN they will be focused on the main organizers and leaders of the attack.

BLACKWELL: And law enforcement who risked their lives defending the Capitol on January 6 were awarded the Congressional Gold Medal today. It's the highest civilian honor bestowed by Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT J, CONTEE III, CHIEF, WASHING, DC METROPOLITAN POLICE: For many of the officers with us, today's ceremony is the first time they have returned to the Capitol complex. Many of us still carry the physical, mental, and emotional scars after that mob of thousands launched the violent assault in an attempt to halt the counting of electoral ballots. The sound of metal poles and other objects striking the bodies, helmets, and shields may still ring loudly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Let's start though with the upcoming criminal referrals and CNN's Jamie Gangel. Jamie, do we know any names yet?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: We really don't know any names yet but I think one of the things we really have to think about here is that these are referrals. That is plural. So, obviously, front and center is the question, will Donald Trump in any way, will there be a criminal referral? And the language that we've heard from the committee is interesting, "we'll be focused on the main organizers and leaders of the attacks."

So, will that be people in and around Donald Trump? Will that have to do with people who might have organized in the more -- you know that they were involved in the attack? There are some people I think we should keep an eye on for when the committee is going to meet later today. We may know more details this evening.

But let's think about some of the people who did not cooperate with the committee. People who took the Fifth, who worked within and around Donald Trump. Jeffrey Clark from the Justice Department, John Eastman, the conservative lawyer, Michael Flynn, Roger Stone, Alex Jones, the Arizona GOP chair, Kelly Ward, all of these people took the Fifth. What does the committee think about what they learned in those that they would send over to justice? There are also people who refuse to cooperate, Steve Bannon, Mark Meadows, Peter Navarro.

And finally, there's another group that's going to be very interesting to watch. And those are the Republican members of Congress who were subpoenaed. Kevin McCarthy, who may very well be the next Speaker of the House, Scott Perry, Jim Jordan, Andy Biggs, Mo Brooks. I'm not suggesting that any of these names may be the final referrals, but they're ones we really have to watch.

CAMEROTA: Do we know what day we will know these names, Jamie?

GANGEL: No. I do not -- I do not think. Look, this was a huge decision by the committee. And my reporting the last week was that the committee wasn't even certain that they were going to tip their hand and announce that they were going to proceed with criminal referrals. So, what happened today was a little bit of a surprise. Some of my sources had said they were not going to announce this until the final report came out. So, I -- let's see what we hear by the end of today, whether they're going to actually name names or if that's going to come in the next couple of weeks.

CAMEROTA: OK. Jamie, come back to us if you hear anything more from your reporting, thank you so much for sharing this.

GANGEL: Absolutely. Sure.

BLACKWELL: So, there was a moment of tension during today's Congressional Gold Medal ceremony, the family of fallen Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick, who died one day after the January 6 attacks, walked by Republicans -- Mitch McConnell -- actually, let's go to McConnell now talking about the Constitution.

[14:05:10]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R-KY): Pass. I think job one is to try to get the NDAA approved without any extraneous matters included in it. We've done this for 60 straight years, and I don't think this ought to be the first year that we don't achieve passing an NDAA. With regard to government spending, time is --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: All right, so, we're listening there to the minority leader there in the Senate, Mitch McConnell, talking about work on some priorities, maybe in the lame-duck, and what may have to wait until the next Congress. We did hear our control room says just a moment ago, he spoke about the Constitution. Of course, this is after the former president's social media -- social media posting about terminating the Constitution to I guess, bring him back into office. We'll turn that sound and bring it to you.

But what I was mentioning before is that the family of Brian Sicknick walked by McConnell and Kevin McCarthy at the Congressional Gold Medal ceremony and walked by their extended hands. Here's the video. They shook Chuck Schumer's hand and then they got to the Republican leaders there in either chamber and simply nodded and walked by without shaking. You see there McConnell's hand extended.

CAMEROTA: Wow. That sounds a -- I would say loud message. CNN congressional correspondent Jessica Dean is on Capitol Hill. So, Jessica, what happened at the event?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it certainly does send a strong message, Victor and Alisyn. And that really, the video tells you the whole story. You see them walking there, talking with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House Majority Leader Chuck Schumer shaking their hand, and then just walking by House Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, and House Minority -- or Senate Majority -- Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, and House minority leader Kevin McCarthy and not shaking their hand.

And CNN did talk with Brian Sicknick's mother shortly after that ceremony and asked her what was behind that decision. And she told us -- she said -- and this was her quote that she's thought they were two-faced. She said that they say they support Capitol Police but then they go to "Mar-a-Lago and "kiss the ring."

And I think it's worth noting that McCarthy has been down to Mar-a- Lago several times since then. McConnell who did not vote to impeach former President Trump over those actions has condoned those actions and spoken out very strongly against them after all of that unfolded. But that was quite a moment to witness during that ceremony today.

And again, just to zoom out to the bigger picture. This is the highest honor that Congress can bestow on anyone and they are bestowing it on the Capitol Police Department officers and the Washington, DC Metropolitan Police officers who, of course, did everything they can to defend -- everything they could to defend the Capitol on January 6. I'll let you listen to a little bit from Pelosi and Schumer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, (D-NY): On the day democracy faced maximum danger, these public servants responded with maximum valor. Today, we are here to say thank you. Thank God for you. REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D-CA): The sound of blood-curdling screams, the smell of gas, and smooth, all remain raw. Yet that day, the Capitol Police, the Metropolitan Police, and additional agencies bravely threw themselves between us and violence. And may I thank the National Guard for continuing that protection.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And, again, those Capitol police officers coming back to work. We see them here in the halls, Victor and Alisyn, every day just doing their job. For a lot of those metropolitan police officers, those are the ones that served the Washington, DC area, this was maybe their first time back in the Capitol since that day. And you can imagine just how heavy the emotion was in that room.

BLACKWELL: All right, Jessica Dean for us there on Capitol Hill, thank you. With us now is CNN law enforcement analyst and former DC Metro Police Officer Michael Fanone. He was dragged and beaten by rioters while defending the Capitol on January 6. He's the author of Hold The Line: The Insurrection And One Cop's Battle For America's Soul. Michael, good to see you again. This was not your first time back on Capitol Hill. You've been there for the January 6 hearings. But what was it like to be in that room today? Your reception and how you receive what you heard.

MICHAEL FANONE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It was bittersweet. In a lot of ways, I feel like I've carried this burden for the past two years in which I have been consistently advocating for acknowledgment on behalf of my fellow officers, those of us who responded to the Capitol on January 6. And as a result of that, have received a lot of praise and a lot of recognition for my actions. And so, for me, this was an opportunity to share that appreciation with members of my former department as well as the United States Capitol Police to show them how much America appreciates what they did that day.

[14:10:15]

CAMEROTA: And, Michael, what was their response? Number one. And number two, we're looking at a picture of you. It's a sweet photo of you and Speaker Pelosi. She's sort of hugging you or rubbing your cheek. What was that moment?

FANONE: I mean, it's -- Nancy Pelosi, Madam Speaker has been a very good friend to me and to my family. She has supported me relentlessly, almost since my very first interview back in January of 2021. She's a wonderful person, and I'm very grateful for her friendship.

BLACKWELL: We heard from -- just a few moments ago from Chuck Schumer, we also heard from -- at this ceremony from the Minority Leader in the House, Kevin McCarthy. Let's play a bit of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY, (R-CA): These brave men and women are heroes. Heroes who protected so many from harm on that day. Heroes who live out the code to protect and serve. Heroes who do the noble work. Too many people take that for granted. But days like today forced us to realize how much we owe that thin blue line.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: We saw Brian Sicknick's mother and her reaction to Kevin McCarthy. What did you think of what you heard from McCarthy?

FANONE: Well, I was surprised actually that Kevin McCarthy showed up. I thought that he would be busy trying to figure out how he could suspend the Constitution on behalf of former President Trump. That being said -- I mean, those words ring hollow to me. You know that ceremony happened in spite of Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell, not because of them. And so, the fact that they got to go there and speak words, I mean, they were meaningless. But I understand that you know, for the optics of the moment, they could not be absent because then we'd be asking, where the hell were they?

CAMEROTA: Michael, were -- you talked about the reception that you got today. Were you heckled by some of your fellow officers or former officers?

FANONE: I was.

CAMEROTA: Why?

FANONE: It's unfortunate. I mean, listen, I think that people misunderstand why it was that I spoke out in the first place. And like I said before, and having done so -- having left the department, taking the job here at CNN, I mean, I get a lot of attention. But make no mistake about it. My purpose for speaking out was because -- or not because of what I did on January 6, and it wasn't even because of what I experienced personally on January 6, it was because the things that I observed were so inspiring. The officers who I observed fighting alongside of me in the tunnel are so inspiring that I was willing to sacrifice my career and even my personal safety.

And this has come at great personal cost to me, I think everyone knows that, to get those officers recognized. And so, in a way, for me, you know, this is at least the end of that task, then I can move on to focusing solely on accountability for those responsible for the January 6 attack.

CAMEROTA: Michael, you referred to this a minute ago, what do you think of former President Trump announcing in black and white, in his own words, that he wanted to terminate rules, regulations, and articles in the Constitution?

FANONE: Yes. I said it before. I'm going to say it again. On January 6, 2021, Donald Trump declared war on America. Not figuratively, he did it literally. He amassed an army and he sent them to attack the Capitol building on the day in which Congress was charged with certifying the election. Donald Trump is a clear and present danger to this country and to our democracy. And I think that Americans need to wake up and they need to choose which side they are on.

[14:15:06]

BLACKWELL: Michael Fanone, we thank you for your work that day, January 6, and we thank you for your time today. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Michael.

FANONE: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Now to the high-stakes Georgia Senate runoff. Incumbent Raphael Warnock is trying to hold onto the seats and beat Republican challenger Herschel Walker. If Warnock wins, it will give Democrats a majority in the Senate.

BLACKWELL: Now, that comes with significant advantages. One of them being the committee majority. It would also take away the leverage of some moderate Democrats like Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema, in fights over legislation. And CNN has reporters across Georgia. Dianne Gallagher is in Atlanta, Amara Walker's in Cobb County, also there in the metro Atlanta area. Dianne, we'll start with you, though. The final messages we're hearing from the candidates, what are they?

DIANNE GALLAHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Victor, both campaigns, in the final, final hours have the exact same message and that is get out and vote and do it now. They've spent the past couple of days now trying to get out what's left to the vote after that more than 1.5 million ballots were cast during the early voting period.

But when you look at their individual closing messages, Senator Raphael Warnock has tried to lean on his Senate experience and also what he says there is left to do. The things that he hasn't been able to complete yet in the Senate. But he's also hit his opponent, Herschel Walker, hard on his character, and also talked about whether or not he's fit for Office. Now, Herschel Walker for his part has tried to tie Raphael Warnock to President Joe Biden at every chance he gets while also appealing to Republicans in the state trying to say he could be a check on Democrats in Washington. Here's what both candidates have to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK, (D-GA): The people of Georgia deserve to have someone who understands the concerns of ordinary people and who will just be present with them.

(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE): Yes.

WARNOCK: Present with workers, present with farmers.

(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE): Yes.

WARNOCK: Who will listen to women.

HERSCHEL WALKER, REPUBLICAN SENATE CANDIDATE, GEORGIA: Right now, Georgia is looking for a senator who is going to speak for them. Raphael Warnock has not spoken for Georgia, everyone knows that. And they've never said anything about it. Right now, I'm going to speak for the Georgia people. The Georgia people are good people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Each candidate essentially saying they're the best person to represent the people of Georgia in Washington. Now, look, there is this old political adage that says it may all come down to turnout. That may very well be true here in Georgia today because the Warnock campaign is believed to have some momentum going into today. But we're in a runoff for a reason. This is going to still be a very close race. And both campaigns have acknowledged that. It truly may all come down to who actually shows up to vote today.

CAMEROTA: OK. Amara, tell us what you're hearing from the people showing up -- the voters.

AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's been very easy and really efficient. That's pretty much what every single voter that I've spoken with here at the Smyrna Community Center -- Community Center has told me here in Cobb County in and out in under about five minutes. In fact, the average wait time across the state of the 2700 polling locations in Georgia is still at about one minute. I spoke with the COO of the Georgia Secretary of State's office, Gabriel Sterling. He also said that he estimates about 750,000 ballots so far have been cast today in this runoff.

A lot of the voters also telling me that they intentionally avoided -- intentionally avoided I should say, the early voting lines hoping that there would be no lines on election day. They gambled and they won. And they were also eager to tell me who they voted for and why. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID, GEORGIA VOTER: I'll tell you I voted for Herschel Walker. Even though I'm an Auburn fan, I put on fight nights here in Atlanta, Herschel came to an event, so I liked him. I spent about 30 minutes with them and a nice guy.

WALKER: Do you mind if I ask you who you voted for?

LACHERRYON, GEORGIA VOTER: Warnock, definitely. He's intelligent. He's for the people. He's assertive. He's efficient. He actually has moved some ground here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: Now I should mention a lot of people are watching what happens here in Cobb County. It's an interesting county because it was always a solid Republican district until recently, and now it slightly leans Democratic. And in November, we saw a lot of vote-splitting, with a lot of people voting for the Republican Governor Brian Kemp while not voting for Raphael -- excuse me, for Herschel Walker.

So, the breakdown here in Cobb in November was Walker getting 40 percent of vote while Brian Kemp got 47 percent. So, it'll be very interesting to see if Walker is able to make up some ground with those Kemp voters today. Back to you, guys.

CAMEROTA: For sure. Yes -- no, Georgia is a very interesting political laboratory right now.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

[14:20:04]

CAMEROTA: Dianne, Amara, thank you very much. OK, CNN's John Berman is here. He is standing by the magic wall. John, which county should we be watching most closely?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You know, I want to pick up on something Amara was just talking about there. And look at the split between the voters who voted for Raphael Warnock, the Democrat running for Senate, and Brian Kemp the Republican running for governor. There are three counties in the entire state, Jefferson County right there, Sumpter County, and Clay County.

Now, these are not big counties, right? Sumpter County, which by the way, is the hometown of Jimmy Carter Plains, Georgia is there. You can just see. Sumpter County, you know, you're dealing with thousands of votes here, but not tens or hundreds of thousands of votes there. But these are three counties that Raphael Warnock won, and you can see Brian Kemp won. They were red for Brian Kemp, again, blue for Raphael Warnock.

Again, why does this matter? I'm going to write this here so we remember it. You see Herschel Walker got 1.9 million votes in the election one month ago. Look at what Brian Kemp did. On the very same ballot, a Republican on the same ballot got 2.1 million votes. So, 200,000 more votes for the Republican Brian Kemp than the Republican Herschel Walker. That's where Herschel Walker needs to get some of that vote. Some of that 200,000, you can see the margin between Warnock and Walker was just 37,000 votes. So, somehow, he's got to eat into that.

Let me just show you what Amara was talking about also in Cobb County right here. Cobb County is a very big County, unlike the ones I just showed you. You can see Raphael Warnock won by some 50,000 votes. But look at Herschel Walker's vote total, 125,000 votes, Brian Kemp there, 147,000, so 22,000 votes alone in Cobb County. And I was just showing you there again, the margin for overall is just about 37,000 votes for Warnock one month ago. Herschel Walker wants to eat into that.

BLACKWELL: Yes. We'll see how much the Kemp ads, the Kemp campaign appearances help Herschel Walker. Let me ask a question though. Did you all send out one of those nostalgic color-coordinating e-mails today? Have you seen that there?

CAMEROTA: All right. The secret there they -- no, we didn't. Here's the thing. We're just still on the same wavelength --

BLACKWELL: Just still wavelength on this color.

CAMEROTA: Once I co-anchor with you, you can never get rid of me from your mind basically.

BLACKWELL: Yes. BLACKWELL: Am I right, John?

BLACKWELL: Yes.

BERMAN: Because you know that thing, there it last --

BLACKWELL: So, I've heard.

BERMAN: It last forever.

BLACKWELL: John Berman, thank you.

CAMEROTA: He hangs around.

BLACKWELL: And CNN's special live coverage of the Georgia runoff starts at 4:00 p.m. Eastern right after our show.

CAMEROTA: OK. Thousands of people in North Carolina are still cold and in the dark at this hour. Moore County remains under a state of emergency. Schools still closed. The search for those behind the attack on the power stations, when we returned.

BLACKWELL: And the suspect in last month's mass shooting at an LGBTQ nightclub in Colorado now faces more than 300 criminal counts. We've got a reaction from the DA in this case next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:27:17]

CAMEROTA: Tens of thousands of people in North Carolina are spending a third day without heat or electricity because of that attack on the power grid.

BLACKWELL: Investigators say they still don't know who shut up two substations. They're not clear on the motive. CNN senior national correspondent Miguel Marquez is in Moore County. Miguel, what's the latest on trying to get these people their power restored?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's slowly coming back. Duke Energy is saying that they were able to get about 3000 more customers hooked up in the last several hours, still about 35,000 customers without power. And they think that that will be the case through Thursday, sometime. They believe they can get those two substations to be powered up. But that's -- you know there's an army of people trying to get that power restored.

And there's an army of investigators trying to figure out what exactly, who did this, and why. Saying that they don't have specific leads at the moment, but they are hearing from the public and chasing down every single lead they can. They have investigators from the local, state, and federal level, FBI involved here trying to figure out who did this. Interestingly, also looking at a very old incident that was similar. One in 2013 in California that took out the power around Silicon Valley there. The difference in this location -- these two substations went down, Duke Energy because of the way it's configured, they were not able to move energy through other channels to get homes energized in this area, but a Duke Energy spokesperson says look, they deal with outages all the time. This one was different.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF BROOKS, DUKE ENERGY: Things like hurricanes, we do get more advanced notice. But there are things like tornadoes, there's cars that hit poles, there's all kinds of things that happen every day on the system and so that's why it's so important that we have a resilient system because you can't always know and plan for everything that could happen. And you have to be able to respond so that you can recover quickly from that.

But you know, from a personal standpoint, when this comes out of the blue, we understand that that is -- that is scary. That's uncomfortable. For our folks, this is what we're trying to do. This is what we go do every day, no matter what the hazard or what the outage is, we're trying to get the power back on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: So, this may not be the biggest power outage in U.S. history, certainly by any stretch, we have storms that take out power to millions of people but it has certainly caught the attention of officials across the country and at the national level because of the vulnerability to the electric grid. This sort of action, who did it and why, the sheriff here in Moore County saying that they are tracking down tips from across the public here. They have a massive number of people trying to figure out exactly who and why. Back to you guys.

CAMEROTA: Miguel, what about those links to extremist groups?