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Brittney Griner Freed in Exchange for Convicted Arms Dealer; Biden Reiterates Commitment to Ensuring Paul Whelan Comes Home; House Voting on Respect for Marriage Act. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired December 08, 2022 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour this Thursday morning and quite a day of news. I'm Jim Sciutto.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Erica Hill.

We do begin with this major breaking news. Brittney Griner is now on her way home to the United States. The WNBA star released this morning in a prisoner exchange with Russia, exchanged for convicted arms dealer Viktor Bout. Here's President Biden this morning at the White House.

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JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: It's my job as president of the United States to make the hard calls and protect American citizens everywhere in the world, anywhere in the world. And I'm proud that today we had made one more family whole again. So, welcome home, Brittney.

SCIUTTO: CNN National Security Correspondent Kylie Atwood is at the State Department. Kylie, State Department, the U.S. and its partners, its allies have been working this for months since she was detained on February 17th. What do we know about the details of the exchange and how this negotiation came to be?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Jim. I mean, this has been an effort that has been under way by U.S. officials since much earlier this year. Of course, we'll remind folks that Brittney Griner was detained in Russia just days before Russia invaded Ukraine and that effort got under way pretty swiftly to try to get her and Paul Whelan out.

But we should note that U.S. officials were trying to secure the release of both of those Americans. Obviously, they're incredibly elated that Brittney Griner is on her way home today, but what they're making clear is that it became evidence to them that they weren't going to be able to get both of these folks, both of these Americans home with the president saying this was not a choice that they really had to go with this swap, one for one, Viktor Bout, who is a convicted arms trafficker, serving a 25-year prison sentence here in the United States, for Brittney Griner. And I want you to listen to what David Whelan, who is Paul Whelan, the other American who is still detained in Russia, said earlier on CNN This Morning, really expressing his concern about how the United States will now be able to get his brother home.

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DAVID WHELAN, BROTHER OF PAUL WHELAN: Someone from the White House let us know, which was very kind. It's hard to process this in real- time, which is what we had to do last April, when Paul Was left behind before and Trevor Reed came home. And it's a great day for the families of the wrongfully detained and we feel wonderful for them, but we do worry about what's in Paul's future.

I think it's become clear that the U.S. doesn't have any concessions that the Russian government wants for Paul and so I'm not really sure -- I'm not really sure of what the future holds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)\

ATWOOD: So, of course, questions as to what the United States can now put on the table for Russia to try and secure Paul Whelan's release.

But, of course, we should note that Brittney Griner's wife, Cherelle Griner, was elated today, saying this is a happy day, and the Biden administration and Cherelle herself committing to get Paul Whelan home. Guys?

SCIUTTO: So gracious of the Whelan family to express their happiness for the Griners but in an understandably difficult moment for them. Kylie Atwood at the State Department, thanks so much.

HILL: CNN Senior White House Correspondent M.J. Lee is also with us. The president spoke earlier this morning. He was flanked, of course, by Brittney Griner's wife, Cherelle, and the vice president and that's when we heard from Cherelle Griner for the first time talking about her joy and also about her pledge, both she and B.G., as she said, to continue that fight for Paul Whelan and other detained Americans.

M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. The president right off the bat began his speech by celebrating. He stepped out into the room, as you said, with Brittney Griner's wife, Cherelle, and said the hell and nightmare that Brittney Griner and her family have been through over the last few months are now over and that she is expected to arrive back in the United States within the next 24 hours.

But the other message that was so clearly delivered from the president is how much Paul Whelan remains top of mind for the president. He wanted to make sure that anybody who is watching, including Whelan's family, heard this from him.

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BIDEN: We never forgot about Brittney. We've not forgotten about Paul Whelan, who has been unjustly detained in Russia for years. This was not a choice of which American to bring home. We brought home Trevor Reed when we had a chance earlier this year. Sadly, for totally illegitimate reasons, Russia is treating Paul's case differently than Brittney's. And while we have not yet succeeded in securing Paul's release, we are not giving up. We will never give up.

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LEE: So, there are two things going on here. One is the celebration of Brittney Griner's release but second is the recognition, the regrettable and unfortunate recognition, as U.S. officials have been saying, that Paul Whelan ultimately had to be left out of this deal. And officials have been making very clear that this was a very difficult decision for the president personally, that it was in recent weeks that Russia made clear that Whelan simply could not be a part of this deal, that they would only really accept Griner's release.

[10:05:13]

And that it was in recent days that President Biden personally gave the green light to accept that deal, but, again, that it was not an easy pill to swallow, as much as he believed that this was the right thing to do and what the U.S. could get at this time.

And I guess the other thing I would just finally note and emphasize is just how much pressure the president had come under in recent months to get Brittney Griner out, whether it's from celebrities, from members of the media, members of her family, of course, and it had become a big priority and problem. And now that Brittney Griner is free and out, I think that pressure, that ramped up pressure will now certainly turn to Paul Whelan, as the administration really continues to promise that they are going to do everything that it can to get him out. But as kylie said, we don't know exactly how that is going to happen.

HILL: Yes, with those concerns that David Whelan expressed as to what there is in terms of bargaining power, negotiating power. M.J., I appreciate it. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Yes. He's already been there four years.

Well, let's speak now to CNN International Security Editor Nick Paton Walsh. Nick, you were the last journalist to sit down for an interview with Viktor Bout, this Merchant of Death, as he's been known, for the arms dealing he's done, remarkable interactions with him while he was behind bars to. Tell us more about him.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes. I mean, look, this was sort of 13 years ago while he was awaiting extradition from Thailand to the United States, where eventually he was convicted for plotting to supply weapons to Colombian terrorists who were, in fact, American agents pretending to be Colombian agents.

Essentially, what have happened in Thailand, he'd agreed to meet people from the Drug Enforcement Agency who are pretending to be Colombian Terrorists. He'd agreed to provide them weaponry. That was all filmed. He was arrested and then there was an extradition process in Thailand, which took months, ages, as Russia and his lawyers tried to hold him back in Bangkok to keep him outside of the U.S. justice system, which eventually put him away for 25 years. He's not served all of that sentence.

This is a very capable man. And the enormous disparity here, Jim, is between what he says publicly, which is no one ever did nothing wrong, I'm an innocent man, I'm not an arms dealer, I'm essentially a pilot who has been a tradesman in conflict zones passing around innocent goods, and the enormous resources that Moscow has flunked, particularly in the last years to get him back to Russia.

He's a key figure, frankly, in the '90s, in the early thousands. I think it would be fair to say mythologically amongst Russians, in terms of their geopolitical swagger and their ability to move arms around conflict zones and choose people to back all things, I should point out, he still denies.

But at the same time, too, he's a man who himself openly talks about his relationships with key figures in Afghanistan and Africa, warlords, et cetera. He says, of course, through the innocent product of supplying his trade around there. But it would be multiple U.N. investigations and analysts too who point out his role as a seminal key arms dealer. I've seen home video which puts him pretty close to conflict zones in Africa. So, clearly a man of a very rich and dark past that Moscow urgently wanted back but one who had a great value to the United States as well, hence, the complex sting in Thailand. Now he's back finally in Russia. Jim?

SCIUTTO: And an enormous disparity between the crimes he was convicted of and the crimes that the U.S. calls wrongful, right, that Brittney Griner carrying a small amount of CBD oil into the country. Nick Paton Walsh, good to have you on the case.

HILL: CNN Senior International Correspondent Frederik Pleitgen has reported extensively inside Russia. He was at Brittney Griner's trial.

Russia, not surprisingly, touting this as a win this morning. As Jim just mentioned, the charges between Viktor Bout and Brittney Griner vastly different. You just noted in our last hour too being there in the courtroom, the evidence was lacking.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The evidence was lacking, and in many ways, her legal team said, had been mishandled as well. That was one of the things or one of the strategies that they sort of followed to try and get her a more lenient sentence.

But it really seemed as though, attending that trial, pretty much every single trial date that Brittney Griner had, that the odds were definitely very much stacked up against her. There was that then talking about the evidence, you know, being handled in a faulty way, also talking about the fact, you know, Jim was just saying, those cartridges containing that CBD oil, there was very, very little actual cannabis oil in those cartridges. They said it was I think less than 0.7 of a gram in total.

And one of her lawyers said afterwards, after she was sentenced, look, most people in Russia, they get away with a slap on the rest. They get away of something like probation. And Brittney Griner got more than nine years in jail from that -- gut punch after the next for Brittney Griner in that court and obviously being sentenced there in the end.

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And just going there was very difficult for her. She was always brought in in handcuffs. She was always made to sit inside a cage. They tried everything to bring in character witnesses, Russians talking about how great she was, how important she was to basketball and Russia, what a great teammate she was, how important she was to her team in Yekaterinburg. None of that seemed to make any sort of difference.

And so in the end, her legal team was telling me, guys, that they believed a swap was really the only way she was going to get out of this. And, certainly, it was extremely difficult for Brittney Griner when she was moved to that penal colony in Mordovia. That is just a very, very tough place to be. So, it's very good for them and it comes even better for her that she's now finally able to get out.

HILL: Absolutely. Frederik Pleitgen, I appreciate it, as always.

Joining us now, WNBA All-Star Women's National Basketball Players Association Vice President Chiney Ogwumike. I mean, this moment, just -- I'm just wondering how you're feeling. You and so many others have worked so hard for this.

CHINEY OGWUMIKE, WNBA ALL-STAR: I mean, my heart is just racing and so happy and I feel so joyful because our sister is finally free. This is a huge moment for everyone who has shown compassion, who has shown empathy for our WNBA sister over the last 294 days since Brittney Griner was wrongfully detained.

And this morning, we woke up to a powerful visual of President Biden, Vice President Kamala Harris and Brittney Griner's wife, Cherelle, announcing the news, in which Cherelle honestly just moved me so much. She had powerful words. And she said that her family is breathing a huge sigh of relief that her wife is coming home.

But she also mentioned something very, very important, that the work is not done yet. She explained that she and B.G. will continue to advocate to help bring others wrongfully detained home, including Paul Whelan. And so for me personally as someone who plays in the WNBA, someone who has known B.G. since I was about ten years old, when I picked up a basketball, because we're both -- in Texas, this has been the WNBA Players Association's fight, this has been the fight of so many black women particularly, this has just been a huge moment and a sigh of relief for her family and we are just grateful that this has come to fruition.

SCIUTTO: You know, it's such an effort that players like yourself were involved also in on social media, the Free B.G. movement to help keep her case in the public spotlight, in effect, keep pressure to get her released. I wonder, going forward, given her treatment by Russia here, does this end the interest of American players going to play in Russia given they might calculate they face the same risk?

OGWUMIKE: Well, the fact of the matter is we never really -- we hoped but we were trying to make sure that the priority was that she got home. And no matter what people say about both parties involved, both countries involved, Brittney Griner is home. And to me, that's the central fact. And the WNBA, as people know, typically our players play in the WNBA but then also play around the world.

But I think this moment really just brings to highlight more so that the WNBA, we represent something that is truly powerful. We use our platforms not only to provide, you know, the best quality basketball but more importantly to advocate for others. You have seen this time and time again in 2020, whether it is our advocacy during the election to 2022 helping bring our sister home.

And so, you know, I know a lot of people probably want to dissect the politics of this, but I think the real moment here is that she's home and that her family is really trying to help bring more wrongfully detained people home as well because this is something that we did not think was guaranteed and it was accomplished and this is a powerful and positive moment for us.

HILL: And that was -- as you highlight, I think that was such a powerful moment this morning, hearing those words from Cherelle Griner, her commitment to help on behalf of other detained Americans and their families.

I also think it's notable, this has been talked about, but having you here to drill into it, the engagement and the activism, the necessary activism of the WNBA on behalf of both Brittney Griner and so many important causes in this country.

How has that changed things for you as players and how are you harnessing that moving forward because you do have such a remarkable platform and I have always been so impressed with how you do not back down? People might tell you to dribble that ball, there is no reason to keep dribbling that ball without also using that platform and you have all done it so beautifully and so consistently and passionately.

OGWUMIKE: I always say that the WNBA is not new to this. We are true to this. And we the WNBA are always at the forefront of social advocacy because we understand the power of our representation.

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As a league predominantly of black women and most of us with our college degrees, it is not just a game for us. It is a platform for us to make real meaningful change, no matter the circumstance, you know, especially for our communities that we represent. And as we've seen in Brittney's situation, we stood together, as we always do, because we have learned that the power of the collective is real.

And we've also learned that time and time again, whether it was in 2020 with our advocacy in the WNBA bubble with the elections or even now in 2022, helping our sister who was wrongfully detained come back home. You know, I think that this moment here is huge because of what Brittney Griner, our sister, represents, simply by existing, particularly as a black queer woman who is often criticized or often ignored. We take a lot of those criticisms generally in the WNBA. And this shows to the world that she, that we are worth fighting for. So, B.G. coming home, I think, you know, is so emblematic of the direction that our society is moving and that direction that, you know, sports operating at the intersection of culture but also advocacy, it's real and it matters and it is important.

SCIUTTO: Chiney, what will be the welcome be like for Brittney Griner, for B.G., when she comes back to the U.S.

OGWUMIKE: Amazing, hopefully, however the circumstance is. I mean, I'm just so happy for B.G. I'm happy for Cherelle, her wife, her family. I just -- I just hope she gets whatever she wants to help bring peace of mind. And if she wants her sisters of the W there, I think we come back home in droves to really celebrate with her because we missed her and we're so happy that this moment is here.

HILL: Can I ask you quickly, I know we're out of time, but have you had a chance to speak with Cherelle at all?

OGWUMIKE: I have not, but, you know, sisterhood is in my blood. My older sister, Nneka Ogwumike, is president of the WNBA P.A., I'm vice president, a little real nepotism there but we got elected so it was all good. But my sister has done an amazing job working with our executive director, Terry Jackson, to have constant communication. And, by the way, people in the WNBA, our players have constantly been writing to Brittney to keep her spirits up. And so there have been so many communications of all by all the key stakeholders and I can't wait to talk to Brittney myself. So, I think everyone will get in line for that. But we're happy, we're relieved and we're grateful to everyone that worked tirelessly to make this happen.

SCIUTTO: Well, they say she'll be home within hours. Chiney Ogwumike, thanks so much for joining us this morning.

OGWUMIKE: Always.

HILL: Well, still to come there, you just heard from the vice president of the WNBA Players Association, they're talking about how she can't wait to see Brittney Griner, her family also reacting to her release and homecoming ahead.

SCIUTTO: First though this hour, the House expected to pass a bill soon which will protect same-sex marriage, this in a landmark vote. We're going to be live on Capitol Hill.

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SCIUTTO: Right now, Speaker Pelosi is speaking on the House floor, discussing a landmark piece of legislation, the Respect for Marriage Act, as it's called, would protect same-sex and interracial marriage requiring every state to recognize another state's legal same-sex marriage.

HILL: CNN Chief Congressional Correspondent Manu Raju on Capitol Hill with the very latest for us. And this bill, of course, would be one of Speaker Pelosi's final pieces of legislation. Where do we stand?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is going to pass in just a matter of moments and then they will send it on to Joe Biden's desk. This would repeal the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act that would define the federal union between a man and a woman, also denied -- allowed states to deny another state's marriage license if it were given to a same-sex couple. That will no longer be allowed under this legislation after the repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act, although it will require states to recognize another state's legally valid marriage.

Now, it does not set a national law. It does not say that all states must recognize that same-sex marriage is the law of the land. It does it on a state-by-state basis. It also has some changes in there that would allow religious institutions, like churches, to deny a same-sex marriage and not lose their tax-exempt status. Those were provisions that were added on the Senate side in order to get Republican support. But it did get enough Republican support to overcome a filibuster in the Senate, eventually passing that chamber and now it is on here to the House, in which it is expected to be approved on a bipartisan basis.

The question will be how many Republicans ultimately support this. Back when it was initially the Defense of Marriage Act was initially approved, just 67 members of the house voted against it. A much different situation here, where we are going to see overwhelming passage repealing that law just a sign of the sea change on this issue from Democrats, some Republicans as now we're moving to a significant piece of legislation to protect gay marriages across the country.

SCIUTTO: Yes, think of that. Just a generation ago a bipartisan piece of legislation that defined same-sex marriage out of legal marriage and now you have bipartisan legislation doing the opposite. Manu Raju on the Hill.

RAJU: Thank you.

HILL: Speaking alongside President Biden from the White House this morning, Brittney Griner's wife, Cherelle Griner, understandably emotional, grateful for her release.

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CHERELLE GRINER, WIFE OF BRITTNEY GRINER: Today, my family is whole, but as you all are aware, there's so many other families who are not whole.

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And so B.G. is not here to say this but I will gladly speak on her behalf and say that B.G. and I will remain committed to the work of getting every American home, including Paul, whose family is in our hearts today, as we celebrate B.G. being home. We do understand that there are still people out here who are enduring what I endured the last nine months of missing tremendously their loved ones.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Gracious, gracious mention there of the folks able to celebrate today and those who are not.

CNN's Abby Phillip back with us, as well as CNN Political Commentator Van Jones. And, Abby, you mentioned this last hour. Russia takes hostages all the time, foreigners, Americans, they use them as bargaining chips. There are particular concerns about Brittney Griner though as a woman, a gay woman, a black woman in a country that targets them specifically, right? There's legislation passed there to outlaw. I wonder what were the particular concerns about her during her time in prison there.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, it's such an important point that this is not happening in a vacuum. I mean, I think it would be already a very big deal because Brittney Griner is a huge star. She is a legend in women's basketball and was also a huge star in Russia as well. So, that alone would be enough.

But I think that there was a sense in the Griner camp, including Cherelle Griner, when I spoke to her, that there were other things that made her vulnerable as well. She is a black woman, a lesbian black woman as well. I think Russia understood how important that was, in general, but specifically to President Biden. They are keenly aware that Biden has a constituency here in the United States that is powered by black women, that this case would be of particular importance to that community. And so that actually raised Brittney Griner's value on the bargaining table.

And for her family, I think that that made this all the more difficult and painful and it elevated their concern that Russia would try to hold out on making a deal for as long as possible so they could get as much as possible out of it.

HILL: Well, they certainly got something that they wanted. Unfortunately, it's impossible to ignore, though, and, Abby, I know you touched on this last hour. We just spoke with Chiney Ogwumike about this as well, the role that her fellow WNBA players played, Van, and the role of black women in general in making sure that she got home, in making sure that Brittney Griner stayed in the headlines.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, absolutely. And, first, I just want to say, Abby has just done extraordinary work on this from the very beginning on air, off air, and she's not alone. This outcome is a result of two different kinds of power. It's the power of the people, especially African-American women, who said this cannot stand. This cannot stand. You cannot have an African-American icon just snatched off a plane and treated like garbage and nothing gets done about it. And it was an everyday thing on social media.

And they forced everyone to come to the table, male athletes, lots of people, this would have been swept under the rug. They refused. So, you have the power of the people but you also have the power of the presidency recognizing, as Abby said, this is his key constituency. This is the backbone of the Democratic Party under assault overseas.

And you can put Griner's name next to the first black woman vice president, the first black woman on the Supreme Court, this is a president who understands who brought him to the dance, who brought him to the party. And he is not letting go of the hands of black women and black women continue to pull forward the country on every single issue, including this one. But this was personal, it shows the power of black women and the power of a president who knows who brought him to the party.

SCIUTTO: To her credit, Abby, Cherelle mentioned the family that didn't get good news today, right? In fact, the family they called it, the Whelan family called it devastating news because this had been discussed as a two for one trade prior, both Griner and Whelan for Viktor Bout, this Merchant of Death, right, who was convicted of many crimes here. What is the reality going forward for the Whelan family given that there is no obvious bargaining chip right now that Russia is clamoring for in exchange for him?

PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, I think that David Whelan, Paul Whelan's brother, said it this morning that what's clear as a result of all that has transpired is that there isn't anything at the moment that it seems that the United States has that Russia is willing to trade him for, that I cannot emphasize how despairing of a realization that is for this family who's been waiting for years and seen other prisoner exchanges happen.

And throughout this process, you know, the Griner case has been the most high profile of all the cases, even though it's been shorter than both Trevor Reed and Paul Whelan who is still there.

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