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First Episodes of New "Harry & Meghan" Docuseries Released; Ukraine Asks the U.S. for Cluster Munitions; Chinese Leader Seeks Closer Ties on Middle East Visit. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired December 08, 2022 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:30:00]

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR: With me now, CNN's Royal historian Kate Williams and my co-anchor and Royal correspondent Max Foster. You both dived into the series. Max let's start with you. The new lines are coming thick and fast. Obviously, we're hearing that Meghan has described their engagement as an orchestrated reality show. We are learning more about their contentious relationship with the press. What's striking you at this time?

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's this idea that they were not protected. I think, fundamentally going back to that. They're describing their love story, how they got together, because they have said they want to tell people more about themselves as well as what happened with their departure from the Royal family.

But the idea that there is a conspiracy between the palace and the media, and the palace is very concerned about upsetting the media, and there is a Royal Rota system, a pooling system, where certain outlets get favored access in order to tell the Royal story effectively, and they didn't benefit from that. So, Harry describing how male members of the family saying that their wives had gone through similar ordeals with the British media, but you just have to go through it.

Harry saying but it's different this time, because we've got a race element. And they are not stepping in to recognize that or understand that. So, Harry and Meghan wanted more protection for the palace, more pushback against the media. And they felt they were not getting that. And they felt that was very unfair.

And then Harry really describe where all that concern from his side came from, which was growing up with a wonderful mother who gave them great experiences, but much of his childhood punctuated by media intrusion. And how that really scarred him. And how he sees so many parallels between Meghan and his mother, not just in terms of character, but also in the way that they were both treated and how he was not going to let that happen again to his wife, the same thing that happened to his mother. Which is why they ultimately left the Royal roles that they had committed to.

NOBILO: Kate, Max speaking there about the mentions of Princess Diana is this documentary, this historical parallels and the similarities that Harry sees in his mother and his wife. The presence of Princess Diana seems deeply felt in this docuseries. KATE WILLIAMS, CNN ROYAL HISTORIAN: Yes, Diana's presence is very felt

deeply. Harry talks about her particularly in episode two. He has talked about the pain and suffering of women marrying into the Royal family. We saw that on the trailers. And particularly in episode two, we talked about how she was followed. How his early memories about being followed by the paparazzi. And he talks about the panorama, into the BBC panorama into it. He said, I think we all know that she was deceived into it, but she spoke her truth, she spoke her actual truth of her experiences. And really, he's so concerned that she suffered so much, he doesn't want, as Max was saying, Meghan to go through the same.

So, Princess Diana, want this documentary is saying, that we've learned nothing from the suffering of Princess Diana. We've learned nothing. Megan was pursued once more and pursued in a way that was also very different, because there is the racism as well.

NOBILO: Max, one line which was not said by either Harry or Meghan, but one of the others that was speaking in the documentary, a former spokesman and they also had a another role with the Royal family. I think the Archibald Foundation that he's involved with that. And he said that the idea of a family anointed by God, by blood to rule over this country and other countries around the world is a difficult concepts for people to get their heads around. It's not so far explicit. But this docuseries doesn't really paint the monarchy as irrelevant or a particularly kind institution in the 21st century.

FOSTER: Yes, and they're trying to explain it, aren't they, to the world. So, this is someone who used to work at Kensington Palace had a senior role and worked very close with the Cambridges and the Sussexes, ultimately left Kensington Palace to go work with the Sussexes, in communications and then ultimately now runs their foundation. So, he is very close to the Sussexes, very much sees their point of view. But doesn't also understand the palace systems. They've got some legitimate people speaking on this.

I think it's almost too hallowed, I think, in a way, the Sussexes view of the British monarchy and they're trying to bring some reality to it. The same, the other way, though, they describe how when Harry introduced Meghan to the family, that they were sort of overcome by her being a Hollywood actress. And there was some sort of cliches that they attached to that. And they struggle to deal with her is what Harry was suggesting when they first met Meghan.

So, I think there is a bit lost in translation between the Hollywood vibe, as it were, and the British vibe.

[04:35:00]

And they both struggled with bringing that together within the family, never fully understood Meghan at all what she could contribute.

NOBILO: This is interesting too because when Meghan is discussing the walkabout -- this event we see frequently in Britain -- you can tell the cultural differences, that she doesn't understand the style of that or even perhaps why it takes place anyway. Can you explain to our international viewers how Harry and Meghan are regarded in this country at the moment, the complexities of that, and what impact do you think this docuseries so far will have on how they are perceived?

WILLIAMS: Yes, Harry and Meghan have said they want to tell their truth. Megan, the slide we've seen in the trailer, she said so many people have spoken for us, books have been written about us by people we don't even know, isn't it more sensible to hear our side the story? So, this is their side story. And certainly, I think, you know, obviously they are suing a lot of newspapers here in the United Kingdom. You, know the press coverage has been -- their criticism of the press coverage and the Royal Rota they were criticizing, the Royal correspondents in here. They were saying that they are an extended PR arm of the Royal family. So, there's a lot of criticism towards the media here.

So, you know, Harry and Meghan do get a lot of criticism within the media. I don't think -- but I think there is a lot of -- you know, there's a lot of support for Meghan when she married into the Royal family. There's a lot of sympathy for her. And I think certainly, Meghan was the first woman of color to marry into the Royal family. And really, this is a multi-cultural Britain. The commonwealth is a majority of people of color. So, it really was, as one of historians in episode three said, it's the Royal family catching up with Britain. But now Meghan and Harry have left the Royal family. So, that means examining.

And I think, you know, it was something that people in Britain are thinking very seriously about. And you were saying about the monarchy. And I do think obviously the Queen had all the sympathy. Charles, it's an early reign, Charles's reign has already been overshadowed by a racism row of what was said by a lady in waiting to a charity boss to the Queen consort reception. On top of that, there's this. So, I think Charles's reign was always going to be a bit shaky. But it seems I think overall are saying how relevant is the Monarchy and how relevant particular is it to the young and it's to people of color?

NOBILO: And a key element of the modern monarchy, Max, and the family dynamics that are discussed is the relationship between Prince Harry and Prince William. Is there much mention of the Prince and Princess of Wales so far in the docuseries?

FOSTER: Not yet. There are references to the family. I mean, when they introduced -- when he introduce Meghan to the family, he said that the members of the family saw her as an American actress and it wouldn't last. So, some criticism there but quite a mild criticism and it's quite generic. We don't know specifically what they're talking about.

And to Kate's point, I was just looking at some more detail about what they're saying about this kind of relationship with the media. That there is this conspiracy between Royal correspondents and the palace. But also, just how you react. So, whenever there's something difficult, the advice is not to react or feed into the story. So, don't react to every new story that you do not like. Clearly, Harry and Meghan did want more reaction.

But there is a debate there, isn't it. What is the best way of dealing with constant daily barrage of media attacks. Do you respond to every attack or do you not? So, there are two very divergent sort of communication strategies. And I think that that's probably one huge part of the tension here.

And, you know, everything that Meghan had been put through, this idea that other women in the family hadn't been put through it as well, so, just deal with it, just get on. Essentially questioning and criticizing the stiff upper lip of which is effectively what defined the monarchy to many people around the world. But you don't let everything around you affect you and get consumed into it.

But that is what monarchy is, that you rise above things. You represent continuity and you don't go with the ups and downs. So, that basically questioning the fundamental premise of the monarchy. So, there is a fundamental debate here which is worth having. But it is very different from what people within palace would have. I don't really agree with a lot of what's in here.

NOBILO: And I'm sure, as you were saying, because of that divergence of communication strategies that they will not be responding in kind. So, it'll be very interesting to see what that reaction is.

Max Foster and Kate Williams, thank you both. We'll check in with the top of the hour.

Up next, CNN learns of a controversial request from Ukraine as the battle against Russia rages on. We'll have details ahead.

Plus, Chinese President Xi Jinping and Saudi Arabia looking to broaden Beijing's influence in the Middle East and push the U.S. to the sideline.

[04:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOBILO: An update now on what we're learning from the new Harry and Meghan documentary. The first few episodes recently dropped.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: There's a hierarchy in the family. You know, there's leaking, but there's also planting of stories.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a war against Meghan to suit other people's agendas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's about hatred. It's about race.

PRINCE HARRY: It's a dirty game.

PRINCE HARRY: The pain and suffering of women marrying into this institution, this feeding frenzy.

PRINCESS MEGHAN, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX: I realized, they're never going to protect you. (END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: In episode, three the Duchess of Sussex describes her confusion while trying to get ready for her first so-called Royal walkabout. Megan also says that she truly believe that the British media wanted drama from her mom's side of the family. The series features interviews with Meghan's mother, who shares her take on the past five years. She also describes her first impressions of Harry.

It's considered one of the most controversial request from Ukraine since the war began. According to multiple U.S. and Ukrainian officials who spoke exclusively with CNN, Ukraine has been urging the U.S. for months to provide the Ukrainian military with cluster munitions, weapons banned by more than 100 countries.

Both Ukraine and Russia have used cluster bombs in the war, but according to an investigation by Human Rights Watch, Russia has used the more often and against civilian targets.

Meantime, Russian President Vladimir Putin is warning of an increasing threat of nuclear war, and says his country will use, quote, all means available if necessary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We will proceed from what we have. There can be only one answer for our side, a consistent fight for our national interests. We will continue to do so and let no one count on anything else. Yes, we will do it in different ways and in terms of means. First of all, of course, we will focus on peaceful means. But if nothing else remains, then we will defend ourselves with all available means at our disposal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[04:45:00]

NOBILO: Ukraine remains focused on getting more weapons. Germany is planning to send 18 wheeled howitzers, along with other items, including 100 drone with defense sensors. This as the fighting grinds on.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says tens civilians were killed in a Russian strike in a town in the Donetsk. In Kherson in the south, he says that four police officers were killed by Russian minds.

CNN's Scott McLean is following developments and joins us now live from London. Scott let's return to the lies that we're getting about cluster munitions. Is it likely that the U.S. will grant this request? And what impact would using more cluster munitions have on Ukraine's moral authority and global support in this invasion from Russia?

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you bring up a very good point, Bianca. And that is that Ukraine has tried to claim the moral high ground in this conflict with how they go about this war and how they go about defending this country in trying to limit civilian casualties. Obviously, it is very difficult to do that when we are talking about cluster bombs.

And a good example of that -- there's far too many to list all of them. But a good example that came back in April when a Russian bomb that a U.N. report found was a cluster bomb hit a train station in Kramatorsk, in the eastern part the country. That report found and it killed 60 people and injured more than 100. The aftermath of that was absolutely horrific.

Now, the Ukrainians say that having more of these weapons would change the course of the war and help it end sooner. And I can show you why they think that. When we are talking about normal bombs, the immediate, the most deadly area that's destroyed, is a width of about 50 meters or so. When we talk about cluster munitions, there are two explosions, one which detonates in the sky, sending a bunch of smaller bombs out onto a wider area, about 100 meters wide. And that is when those bombs go off. And so, you can understand why it is so hard to limit civilian casualties.

Now, the Ukrainians insists that, look, they want to use these against concentrations of Russian troops, against military targets only. But of course, war as we know, is complicated. And Russian troops are not exactly siloed off from the rest of the civilian population. And so, it is very difficult to do that in practical terms.

The other part that's concerning is that some of those little cluster bombs, some of those little bomblets, do not actually detonate. And so, they're left behind as sort of de facto land mines for civilians to come across later. And that is part of the reason why the U.S. Congress has made it very difficult for the United States to actually send these weapons to other countries, to transfer them to other countries. And that's part of the reason why the Biden menstruation so far has said no. But they also haven't really seriously consider it yet. A former defense secretary though, Bianca, said that they should. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEON PANETTA, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: The Russians are not playing by the Marques of Queensberry rules. They've use cluster bombs. They're sending missiles into schools and to hospitals. They've had no regard for human life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLEAN: So, Bianca, one other thing to mention, and that is the U.S. has a -- obviously a stockpile of these weapons. One model of the weapon they actually phased out back in 2016 because there were so many of those bomblets that were not exploding. That's the model that the Ukraine's actually what because they say it's more effective. And if they don't have it, it'll just collect dust in the U.S.

NOBILO: Scott McLean, thank you.

Chinese President Xi Jinping is in Saudi Arabia, hoping to strengthen ties with countries throughout the Middle East. We have new video just into CNN of President Xi meeting with the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. The Chinese leader taking part into major summits that could bring petrochemical deals and arms sales worth billions of dollars. But greater Chinese influence in the region could come at the expense of U.S. partnerships with Gulf countries.

To discuss, let's bring in CNN 's international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson. Nic, talk to me about the relationship that exist between President Xi and Mohammed bin Salman, and also what each party stands to gain from strengthening these ties?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: I think it's instructive if we go back to 2009, February 2019, when President Xi Jinping invites Mohammed bin Salman, the Crown Prince, to Beijing. Why does he do that? Because that's just a couple of months after the killing of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi, that MBS is heavily implicated in and he was becoming a global pariah.

And Xi Jinping knew that bringing him to Beijing, giving him an international platform and a chance to sort of get applause and look like a statesman, would be beneficial. They understand each other. They're autocrats. They're both strongmen. They both also want stronger economies. You know, China is the world's biggest oil importer. Saudi Arabia is the biggest oil exporter. So, at the moment there's something -- there's certainly good business to be done between them.

[04:50:00]

For the last five years, Saudi Arabia -- China has been Saudi Arabia's biggest trading partner. They see working together on such things as a joint petrochemical venture, which is one of things that make come out of these meetings. Now, they see that as a way of strengthening this relationship and signaling to both countries -- signaling to the populations of both countries that this is a good relationship, it's a beneficial relationship.

But for President Xi, it goes way beyond that. This is an opportunity to decouple Saudi Arabia from U.S. interests. And this is something that is keen to do. And I think that is so instructive. You saw that handshake there, that long handshake between President Xi and MBS.

President Biden, when he visited in the summer, he got a fist bump, and a lot of criticism for it. And President Biden landed at the airport in Jeddah, the Saudi ambassador to the U.S. met him. When President Xi landed in Riyadh, he got the foreign minister and he got a flyby of aircraft, you know, big sort of red and yellow contrail, you know, as a welcome. There's signaling there from both sides. They understand each other, what it takes to be in power. Which is to show to their populations that they have a good relationship, economically beneficial. But really, it is a global power plays at work. And MBS is coming out also as not so much of a pariah now, but global power broker.

NOBILO: And it's fastening to see that telegraphed in those early subtle ways, in terms how both of them are being received. Nic Robinson, thank you so much. We'll be right back.

[04:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOBILO: One last recap on our breaking news. The new Royal relations released by the Duke and Duchess of Sussex in their new documentary. The unprecedented series dropped about two hours ago. And there's a heavy focus on the role of the paparazzi in their lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRINCE HARRY: Back in my mom's days, it was physical harassment. They had cameras in your face, following you, chasing you. The harassment really exist more online now. Once the photographs are out, and the stories get put next to, it then comes the social media harassment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Harry went on to say that to watch another woman that he loves go through the media feeding frenzy was hard. And then it's basically the hunter versus the prey. Stay with CNN for further details on what the Duke and Duchess of Sussex reveal in this docuseries and how the Royal family reacts.

For now, that does it here on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Bianca Nobilo in London, and I'll be back in a just few minutes with more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:00:00]