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Sinema Of Arizona Leaves Democratic Party, Now An Independent; Judge Considers Contempt Request In Trump Classified Docs Case; Russia Wanted A Spy Being Held In Germany In Exchange For Whelan. Aired 3- 3:30p ET

Aired December 09, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:23]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Hello, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga. Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM.

We begin with a surprise shake up in the Senate, Democrats are now down one member, Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona announcing today that she is leaving the party becoming an Independent. Now, just three days ago, Democrats clinched a clean majority in the chamber gaining a 51st seat with their re-election of Sen. Raphael Warnock in Georgia. Sinema explained her decision to our Jake Tapper.

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SEN. KYRSTEN SINEMA (D-AZ): I've registered as an Arizona Independent. I know some people might be a little bit surprised by this, but actually I think it makes a lot of sense. A growing number of Arizonans and people like me just don't feel like we fit neatly into one party's box or the other. And so like many across the state in the nation, I've decided to leave that partisan process. I just not worried about folks who may not like this approach.

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GOLODRYGA: Sen. Sinema declined to address Jake's questions about whether she will run for re-election in 2024.

CNN Congressional Correspondent Lauren Fox joins me now. So Lauren, we know that the White House had a heads up and we know that Senate Leader, Schumer, had a heads up as well. But how will this impact the Democratic majority in the Senate?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, her colleagues always knew, right, that she was independent, that they could not always rely on her to line in - line up in lockstep with them when it came to key votes, like doing things like getting rid of the filibuster. That was one of the main controversial issues that she did not want to go along with Democrats on.

But look, this doesn't change a whole lot in terms of how the Senate is going to work day by day. And she did address that with Jake in her interview. She still is going to keep her committee assignments and in a statement from Majority Leader Chuck Schumer's office he said this, "She asked me to keep her committee assignments and I agreed. Kyrsten is independent; that is how she's always been. I believe she's a good and effective senator and am looking forward to a productive session in the new Democratic majority Senate. We will maintain our new majority on committees, exercise our subpoena power and be able to clear nominees without discharge votes." A.k.a. moving those nominees much more quickly than they were before and that 50-50 Senate.

So looking forward, this is not going to change a whole lot day to day in the Senate, but certainly, this is a very symbolic move and it is something that Sinema felt like she needed to do. And we should note, she did not say if she's running for re-election, but if she weren't going to run for re election that's just around the corner.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, just two years. Lauren Fox, thank you.

Well, John LaBombard is former Communications Director for Sen. Sinema. He's currently Senior Vice President at ROKK Solutions.

So John, as someone who knows the Senator who has been described as mercurial by members of both parties over the past few years, what do you make of this decision?

JOHN LABOMBARD, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, SEN. KYRSTEN SINEMA: Yes, thank you for having me, Bianna. I would say that this really is Sen. Sinema's registration, catching up with the reality that she's exhibited over the past few years in the Senate. Even in the House before she was elected to the Senate, she was always quite independent minded. She laid out a lot of issues with partisanship in this country, in her op-ed and announcement that I think a lot of Americans will find resonance with.

As Lauren rightly just pointed out, I think people are zeroing in on what will stay the same, which is equally important today. The balance of power in the Senate by all accounts will not change nor were her values or her voting record. That's a voting record that is a hundred percent pro choice that's supportive of LGBTQ Americans and of dreamers.

And it'll allow her, I think, to potentially have an even bigger platform with which to get some of these big bipartisan deals accomplished that she has led so far in the Senate.

GOLODRYGA: Have you spoken with her since she's made this announcement? I know this is in the past few hours, but I'm just curious if you'd been in touch with her if you knew that she was toying with this idea.

LABOMBARD: I - it was not a surprise to me, I'll say that, and I am in touch with her as both a former staffer and now I count myself as a friend and a supporter of hers. It's - what's interesting about this, if you talk to me, and I think I can speak for a lot of folks who know her, who have spent a lot of time working with her, this is a big decision, but it's really not a surprise.

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For all intents and purposes, she's operated as a Democrat and when I first was aware that she was seriously considering this, I sort of thought to myself, yes, this is a natural extension of who you've always been. And there's certainly - I don't want to discount folks who are upset with this decision, but at the same time, I think in the long-term, this may be a decision that really releases some of the pressure on both sides of this equation between Sen. Sinema and with the folks who were trying to exert pressure on her to be someone who she really never was.

GOLODRYGA: I want to bring in Mike Broomhead, he's the Arizona conservative radio talk show host, to join this conversation. Mike, good to have you on with us.

What is your response to this news? As someone who just watched and covered one of the most contentious midterm races and elections in the state of Arizona, do you agree with Kyrsten sentiments assessment that this is what so many Arizonans want to see the direction of politics take?

MIKE BROOMHEAD, ARIZONA CONSERVATIVE RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I think this was - yes, I think it was a smart move for Sen. Sinema. I think that when you saw how she ran her campaign and she said I'm going to be independent, just like Arizona, I was one of the people that question whether that was true or not, but she's won a lot of people over in the sense that she has truly done that.

And if you look at the demographics, I live in Maricopa County, where Phoenix is, our largest county, the number one voter demographic now in Maricopa County by a small margin is independent voters, and it's the fastest growing in the state.

So I think when she says this is kind of a natural extension of what she's done in the past, I think it also shows the demographics in Arizona, the fastest growing group is independents.

GOLODRYGA: So to give her the benefit of the doubt as to what drove this decision, let's put that aside, because there's also the argument that this could help her politically, if she does decide to run again in 2024, she's not polling well with Democrats in this state. We are hearing more and more.

I mean, Ruben Gallego just spoke today and thought that - and said publicly in a statement that he basically viewed this as a selfish move on her part, because she fears a potential primary from him. What do you make of that argument?

BROOMHEAD: Well, you have to remember that I come from the side of the aisle where John McCain was thrived here in Arizona. He was not very popular with the Republican Party leadership in Arizona, but he won elections by double digits every time he ran. So just because the party leadership isn't necessarily saying they're in supportive things, doesn't mean that Democrat voters wouldn't vote for her along with those independents that she needs. But I do think it's a smart move politically, because it avoids that primary process. GOLODRYGA: John, what do you make given how close you are with the

Senator and you had been there when the White House was not singing her praises and supporting her the way they have been today and citing how her voting percentage and how much she's voted alongside, I believe 93 percent, alongside with the President's agenda? That counters with how they have viewed her in the past as really a thorn to the party's side. I'm just curious what you made of that.

LABOMBARD: Yes. Mike's exactly right in terms of the Arizona landscape that Sen. Sinema represents here in the Senate. I watched - I have kind of a front row seat as Sen. Sinema was at the table negotiating these big bipartisan deals that were frankly sought by President Biden and his team, those ranged from infrastructure to the first gun safety and mental health bill passed in a generation to protecting gay and lesbian couples who were married.

I honestly think that for all the hubbub and the back and forth, Sen. Sinema and President Biden and his team do have a really good working relationship because of that reason, and I think you can see that in the statement that the White House put out today. But there's no denying and it's really hard to look at these past few years especially and not see - not just in the Democratic Party, but I frankly, think in both parties that every day it gets a little bit harder to be around that table, to strike that sweet spot of bipartisan compromise for moderates in both parties, because of the partisan pressure that's really pulling elected leaders to the edges.

That's what I think really animated this decision from Sen. Sinema to hear her talk about it. It's something I saw as well. And honestly, I think it's something that kind of transcends both parties. But I think this will set her up for success to keep pursuing those kinds of bipartisan deals that could renew Americans' confidence that our government can work.

GOLODRYGA: Mike, in her op-ed, she reiterated that in becoming an independent she had "joined the growing numbers of Arizonans who reject party politics by declaring my independence from the broken partisan system in Washington."

I'm just curious, because there are those that suggests that this announcement could lead the Republican Party to once again put in a far right candidate for the 2024 election cycle if in fact we do see Kyrsten Sinema announced that she is running for re-election.

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BROOMHEAD: Yes. I'll just say that the party leadership and the Republican Party I think is as fractured as we've seen or disconnected from the Republican voters is what I think we're talking about with Democratic voters. And what they've - they - the lesson that has to be learned by Republicans in Arizona is that if you're not speaking to independent voters, you have no chance.

The Independent voters have shown to be such a huge group that you have to reach those voters. And if you don't, you're going to lose and hopefully after what's happened here in Arizona in this election cycle that they're going to learn that lesson.

GOLODRYGA: All right. Mike Broomhead, John LaBombard, thank you for joining us. We appreciate your time. Thank you.

LABOMBARD: Thanks for having us.

BROOMHEAD: Thanks.

GOLODRYGA: Well, we are following a critical showdown in federal court today. The Justice Department has argued that Donald Trump's team should be held in contempt for failing to comply with the subpoena to turn over all classified documents in the former president's possession. Trump's legal team said it conducted searches in four locations just before Thanksgiving and found two more documents with classified markings at a storage unit in Florida.

CNN's Jessica Schneider joins me now with the latest.

So Jessica, what more do we know about this hearing?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bianna, it is underway. However, it is behind closed doors not open to the public. Our team has actually staked out at the courtroom, but they're unable at this point to get a lot.

A lawyer though has for several media outlets has asked this judge to open up the proceeding. It doesn't look like that's happened at this point. But this is of such critical importance, because this really does represent a major clash and essentially culmination in this fight between the Justice Department and Trump's lawyers over these classified documents, hundreds of which of course, were seized by the FBI when they searched Mar-A-Lago in August.

But DOJ, we've learned just isn't confident that it has all of those records back. So now prosecutors are asking this federal judge to hold Trump in contempt of court for failing to turn over all of these classified records. Now, we'll see how this hearing plays out. But if this judge agrees with DOJ here, she could actually impose on Trump and his team a daily fine for refusing to comply with turning over all these classified documents.

And in addition here in this constant back and forth between DOJ and Team Trump, we've learned that another sticking point is that at this point no one from Trump's legal team is willing to sign off on an attestation that all classified documents have been returned. So that's a real problem from the DOJ saying, hey, Trump Team, why can't you at least tell us a hundred percent if all of these documents have been returned.

So Bianna, this has already been a long legal fight where DOJ has been working for months, if not more than a year to get these documents back and now they're taking this big step here asking this judge to hold Trump in contempt, all of it happening in a non public hearing right now. So we'll see what else develops over the rest of the afternoon, Bianna. GOLODRYGA: Listen, Trump's lawyers can't be blamed for not wanting

to sign that document given that they were burned for doing just that over the summer.

SCHNEIDER: Right.

GOLODRYGA: Jessica Schneider, thank you.

Well, WNBA star Brittney Griner is back in America after a high stakes prisoner exchange with Russia. But Paul Whelan is still detained in a prison cell in Russia. I'll speak with Paul's brother David Whelan up next.

And later, investigators in North Carolina are applying for search warrants tied to the attacks on two of the state's power substations. We'll have more details straight ahead.

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GOLODRYGA: After spending nearly 10 months in a Russian prison and penal colony, WNBA star Brittney Griner is back on American soil and a free woman. She touched down in San Antonio early this morning.

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KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: She has been reunited with her wife, Cherelle. U.S. officials who met her on the ground said she was in very good spirits, appears to be in good health.

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GOLODRYGA: She was then taken to Brooke Army Medical Center for a routine health evaluation. The Biden administration secured her release by turning over convicted Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout.

CNN National Security Correspondent Alex Marquardt joins me now.

So Alex, what more do we know about the process that led to her release and then the Biden administration's continued efforts now to bring home Paul Whelan who, of course, is still detained in Russia?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bianna, we know that this was a very lengthy process. Administration officials have described the negotiations as difficult. Of course, the administration had hoped to bring home both Griner and Paul Whelan.

Griner, as you mentioned, had been in detention for some 10 months. Paul Whelan has been imprisoned in Russia locked up for four years. The administration had said back in July that they had made what they called a substantial proposal to get both of them home. And we later learned that that proposal was in exchange for Viktor Bout, of course, widely known as the merchant of death, someone who had been sentenced to 25 years in prison by a federal judge, someone who many in the Justice Department did not want to see released.

But in the end, the Russians said that they would only do a one for one deal and it was Viktor Bout. And it was not a choice that the Americans had to made, it was Viktor Bout for Brittney Griner that Paul Whelan would not be yet - would not get out because he has been accused of espionage, charges that he denies. Here's a little bit of what the White House's John Kirby had to say earlier today.

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JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: They put him in a different category because of these sham espionage charges. And just there was no way to get him into this deal with Mr. Bout. So we are going to keep working on this. We now have a much better understanding of where the Russians are on him and so we're going to use that knowledge and that context going forward. We're going to keep at that task.

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MARQUARDT: Bianna, the Russians from what we're told, wanted a spy for a spy.

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And a person that they had repeatedly requested according to a reporting by our colleagues Natasha Bertrand and Kylie Atwood was a man by the name of Vadim Krasikov. He is a former colonel in Russia's domestic intelligence service, the FSB. And he's been locked up in Germany for the past several years convicted of murder, convicted of murdering a Georgian citizen on German soil.

The Russians wanted him back. The U.S. made an outreach to the Germans to see if that would be possible. The Germans rebuffed that and made it clear that that wasn't going to happen. The U.S. we understand floated a number of other names and so far have not been successful.

The White House denies that they are back at square one, but clearly beyond that there is some kind of reset here. The - they - administration official saying that they are trying to get creative. They're looking at all kinds of different options in terms of who they might be able to offer to the Russians in order to get Paul Whelan back to the U.S., Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, interesting. Putin also himself a former spy, clearly wanting to take care of his own.

Alex Marquardt, thank you.

Well, I'm joined now by David Whelan. He is Paul Whelan's brother.

David, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today. It's understandable that there's been so much attention given to Brittney Griner and her return and what her family is going through. But I was struck that almost every single person who talks about Brittney Griner, whether it's an administration official or even her own family - just in the last hour, I spoke with Sheila Jackson Lee, they all referenced your brother as well, that there's no conversation that ends without bringing up his name and their fight to bring him home. I'm curious to get your reaction to that and whether you find that comforting.

DAVID WHELAN, BROTHER OF PAUL WHELAN: I do. We noticed it ourselves, from almost the very start, I would say, that every time we heard anybody talking from Brittney Griner supporters or advocates while she was in wrongful detention.

They were always very gracious about bringing Paul into those discussions and I think it's really helped. I mean, I'm not sure it's necessarily made an impact on a macro level. I can't measure that. But for our family, it meant so much to know that they understood that we were all sort of in this together, not necessarily that the cases were intertwined, but that we're experiencing the similar deprivation of a loved one.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. And we know the U.S.' stances that your brother is wrongfully detained. Russia is charging him with espionage and as we've heard from U.S. officials that that puts him in a different category from Brittney Griner. I'm curious to get your response to this news that not only did Russians want Viktor Bout back, but they also wanted this other Russian spy that's currently being held in a German prison. Your reaction to that and do you understand why the U.S. said that that was not something that they would broach with an ally like Germany?

WHELAN: Well, I think the Russians have been talking about - the Kremlin has been talking about Krasikov in their media for a while and so I was not at all surprised that that might be a potential ask. And also that it was completely impossible.

I mean, I just can't even imagine that any country would release an assassin in exchange for Paul. So yes, I think it's difficult to know what the next steps are. I think it will be interesting to see what the U.S. government comes up with.

GOLODRYGA: We heard from former President Trump and responding to this news of Brittney Griner coming home, I'm not going to get into his comments, but it was interesting to hear from his former national security adviser John Bolton today say that the possibility, and I'm quoting from him, the possibility of a Bout for Whelan trade existed in 2018, but it wasn't made for very good reasons having to do with Viktor Bout.

First of all, did you know about this possibility back in 2018 and what do you make Bolton's comments?

WHELAN: You know what, we hoped that that was on the table and I don't know that we knew that, I just really can't recall anymore. But we knew that Viktor Bout and Kostyantyn Gryshchenko were the two people that the Russian government continued to harp on as far as - if there was going to be an exchange, it was going to be one of - one or both of those people.

So I'm not surprised that it was a potentiality. I'm not sure why it would have been off the table because of Mr. Boot. He seems to have been an aging criminal and I'm not sure what ongoing threat he poses to anybody.

GOLODRYGA: He just had a four - a few more years left, I believe, in his prison sentence. It's no surprise, I would have imagined you would agree that this dilemma has turned political here in the United States. There are some in the Republican Party who suggests that this was a wrong deal to make and that it makes the United States look weak and that it puts more Americans in harm's way to have sent Viktor Bout back home. What is your take?

WHELAN: Well, I think the White House has shown leadership and I think some people aren't able to cope with displays of leadership. They made a decisive action. It brought an American home, I think that that is what any American shouldn't expect the U.S. president to do.

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So from that perspective, I think that things have worked out the way they should.

Now, if people are complaining about wrongful detentions and encouraging them, I think some of the people who are complaining about it, if they're in Congress or in U.S. agencies have the ability to do something about that. We've seen in the executive order that President Biden put out last summer that there are people tasked now to come up with strategies to de-incentivize wrongful detentions. And I think that lawmakers, agencies can get involved in that and find ways, have a plan, so that when an American is detained, rather than after an American is detained, they have something that they can put into place in order to bring that person back as quickly as possible and to punish the countries and there aren't that many of them, who engage in this sort of practice.

GOLODRYGA: Negotiations were at a low point, just a few months ago and this deal came about just in the last 72 hours. We heard from Vladimir Putin today, but obviously, you can't take him at his word. But he said that future prisoner swaps were still an option and the United States does appear to be more optimistic about other ways and means to bring your brother home. Is that reassuring for you now as we approach four years since he had been arrested?

WHELAN: Yes. The gentleman who just was speaking said exactly what I was thinking. It's a reset, but it's not going back to square one, because they have exhausted some possibilities, the U.S. government has in their discussions with Russia, about Paul and about how to get Paul home.

So they've really sort of cleared the forest a little bit and I think that they have maybe a better sense of some of the paths going forward. Certainly they've moved some things off the table because the Russian government isn't interested in them.

So I'm optimistic that the U.S. government has the creativity to solve this problem. They certainly have the energy and the Biden administration has shown they have will to bring Paul home, so we'll continue to expect them to do that.

GOLODRYGA: Well, the grace that you have shown to the Griner family as they have welcomed their loved one home without your brother with her has just been remarkable. And I hope you know that the whole country is here thinking of you and your family, especially as we approach the holidays now and one more year without your brother. Hopefully this will be the last. David Whelan, thank you.

WHELAN: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, new details in the investigation on the attack on to power stations in North Carolina. Investigators are now applying for search warrants. We'll have those details up next.

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