Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Sports Writer Grant Wahl Dies While Covering Quarterfinals; FIFA Pays Tribute To Grant Wahl With Memorial Inside Press Booth; State Dept. In "Close Communication" With Family After Grant Wahl's Death During The World Cup; Brittney Griner In "Good Spirits" After Return To U.S.; Biden Vows U.S. Will Never Give Up On Bringing Whelan Home; Major Winter Storm Brings Heavy Snow, Flooding Rain To Western U.S.; Artemis 1 Mission To Return After 25-Day Flight Around The Moon; Hurricanes Unearth Debris That Appears To Be A 1800s Shipwreck; Sports Writer Grant Wahl Dies While Covering Quarterfinals. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired December 10, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:01:17]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me, I'm Fredricka Whitfield. A mesmerizing moment in World Cup history. Morocco becoming the first African nation to reach the semifinals. Stunning Portugal one nil to advance in the tournament. And now they'll wait to see who will they'll face next -- England or France.

They're kicking off just -- they kicked off rather just moments ago. But amid the fanfare, there is also melancholy. The sudden abrupt death of sports journalist Grant Wahl casting a shadow on the tournament. He collapsed while covering the Argentina Netherlands match on Friday. The circumstances of his death still unclear at this hour.

Wahl was one of the most prominent voices for soccer in America championing this sport calling out corruption and sticking up for equality. FIFA, the international governing body of soccer paying tribute with a makeshift memorial during the latest match, saying, he should have been here.

For more on all of this, let's bring in CNN's Don Riddell and Patrick Snell. So Don, do you first -- you know, what more are we learning about the circumstances of his death?

DON RIDDELL, CNN HOST, WORLD SPORT: Well, the details are scant, but we know that during this extraordinary game, which I was also covering last night between Argentina and the Netherlands that he collapsed during the match. It was an extraordinary occasion. He was broadcasting on the game. His last tweet referenced the Dutch equalizing goal that went in in the 90th minute.

And the subsequent drama that played out on the stadium, obviously, consumed the 80,000 plus supporters who were there. But as that was happening, we now know that Grant Wahl had collapsed and a frantic effort to try and save his life was underway. Witnesses told CNN that that lasted between 20 to 25 minutes. We do understand that he was taken to hospital. But those efforts to save his life were unsuccessful.

And, you know, the football community is a small one. It's very tight knit. Of course, we all work for different broadcasters or different publications. But everybody sees everybody at the games, a lot of people are very, very close friends within the community. And Grant Wahl was incredibly popular, not just in the United States, but in Europe and beyond.

And, you know, the sense for the last hours throughout today has just been one of absolute disbelief, the fact that it was so sudden, so bizarre, has made it really, really difficult to comprehend. We do know that Grant had been complaining of health issues during this tournament. The irony is when I last saw him two weeks ago, we were talking about my health issues because I've completely lost my voice. And I was grateful to Grant for joining me on the show.

But he did go to see a doctor a few days before he passed away. He was complaining of a tight chest. And we do know that he was working incredibly hard as a freelancer out here at the World Cup in Qatar. And these may well all be significant factors in his demise.

WHITFIELD: So sad, Don. And Patrick, you know, Grant Wahl had kind of a larger than life, you know, presence in the sports world and he impacted a lot of the athletes not just in the world of soccer football but beyond in so many different ways.

PATRICK SNELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Yes. He was so engaging, so passionate about the beautiful game as we call it, Fredricka, universally respected as well. You know, this is someone who took the sport beyond America and really championing the cause, not just for North America but, you know, the whole CONCACAF region including the Caribbean as well and just, it's heavy. It's a heavy somber day for us all.

[14:05:12]

We've all spent time with Grant over the years. You know, I met him in 2009 ahead of the MLS Cup in Seattle, we were both in line waiting to interview another iconic figure from the world of football, David Beckham.

WHITFIELD: Wow.

SNELL: And even now, we're preparing for our interview there and that he takes the time to talk and engage, just a class act of a man. He'll be greatly, greatly missed. And, of course, our condolences to the entire family. But tributes have been coming in through this day from all over the world.

Make no mistake about this. I want to get to this because it's within the last couple of hours or so from FIFA, football's world governing body, taken to Twitter a little earlier. "Tonight, we pay tribute to Grant Wahl at his assigned seat in Al Bayt Stadium. He should have been here. Our thoughts remain with his wife, Celine, his family and his friends at this most difficult time."

Of course, at the venue we're at this hour England are taking on France in the semi-final. And that really powerful image and I saw it early, it's going to resonate with me a little long, long time to come, the flowers there, the framed picture at what would have been his seat for the game. I mean, that is so powerful. It's really poignant.

Major League Soccer as well, a statement from them a little earlier. Some real strong, powerful words here. "We are shocked, saddened and heartbroken over the tragic passing of Grant Wahl. He was kind and caring person. His passion for soccer and dedication to journalism were immeasurable. He will be deeply missed. Our heartfelt condolences are with his wife, Celine, his family and loved ones."

And it's just been the global outpouring of shock, grief and emotion.

WHITFIELD: Yes. I mean, it's an incredible statement of how many lives he impacted --

SNELL: Yes.

WHITFIELD: -- you know, professionally. And just as you said, how affable and approachable he was --

SNELL: Yes.

WHITFIELD: -- and how helpful.

SNELL: Yes.

WHITFIELD: You know, he really wanted to help everybody --

SNELL: Yes.

WHITFIELD: -- be kind of a student of the sport.

SNELL: He was kind.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

SNELL: He was kind, that's my overriding memory with him.

WHITFIELD: And then, Don, you know, despite, you know, the tributes and his absence, you know, the match continues.

RIDDELL: Yes, and we've just seen an incredible match here this evening that he would have absolutely loved if he'd been here. Of course, he was very critical of the World Cup in Qatar and the circumstances that led to the staging of the tournament here, and the preparations, and the human rights abuses that have led to the staging of this tournament.

But he would never have complained about the incredible drama we've witnessed in what is becoming just the most unpredictable World Cup tournament, I think in history. And we had another of those games tonight, Morocco knocking out Cristiano Ronaldo's Portugal to become the first African team ever to reach the semifinals of this tournament. They will play the winners of the game between France and England.

Of course, this is the first World Cup tournament in the Middle East. Morocco are the first Arab team, not just the first African team, but the first Arab team to get to the semi-finals. And the way they're playing, they're brilliant. And their fans are saying, why stop here? We can win the whole thing. And given that it's been such a tournament of upsets, why not?

WHITFIELD: Extraordinary. All right, Don Riddell, Patrick Snell. Thanks to both of you. Appreciate it and, of course, our hearts go out to Mr. Wahl'z family.

The White House has now released a statement, in fact, on the passing of Grant Wahl saying this, "Grant Wahl was an inspiration to many. Our thoughts are with his wife, Dr. Celine Gounder and all of those who loved him. State Department officials are in touch with Grant's family and with senior officials in the government of Qatar to ensure his family gets the support that they need."

All right now joining us from Washington, Jennifer Hansler. Jennifer, we heard from the White House there, but what is the State Department saying and how will it proceed?

JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT PRODUCER: Well, as we heard from the White House Press Secretary there, Fred, the State Department is working with a local government there in Qatar to try to support the family during this incredibly difficult time to navigate, how to get his body back to the United States, how to support them through this very difficult process when dealing with a death abroad.

Last night, we heard from the State Department spokesperson, Ned Price, I'm going to go ahead and read you what he tweeted. He said, "We were deeply saddened to learn of the death of Grant Wahl and send our condolences to his family with whom we have been in close communication. We are engaged with senior Qatari officials to see that -- to see to it, excuse me, that his family's wishes are fulfilled as expeditiously as possible."

So they are trying to ease this process, make it occur as quickly as possible work with the government there to make sure there are no stumbling blocks throughout this difficult time.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And then, Jennifer, I mean, customarily, how does this go, I mean, in terms of the State Department's involvement, since it happened out of country, in Qatar, you know then of course, whatever investigations would take place, it's, you know, their jurisdiction but at the same time, of course, the family has its interest, as does the U.S. State Department.

[14:10:15]

So how soon would his body be returned to the U.S.? Who leads an investigation like this? HANSLER: So on the investigative front, it will be officials from the embassy, they may have, if they suspect, foul play someone from a law enforcement agency in the U.S. We don't know anything about that yet. But in terms of how they support Americans who have unfortunately died abroad, there is actually an office at the State Department whose entire job is just for Americans overseas, be it for good things, the birth of a baby overseas or unfortunate situations like this when someone dies.

So this is called the Bureau of Consular Affairs. They will -- depending on the circumstance, notify next of kin of the death, they may have an official usually from the Embassy on the ground, go and collect that person's possessions and make sure they make it to the right person. They will assist the family or friends with either trying to arrange a local burial or try to get that body back in the U.S. So this is what's going on behind the scenes likely here.

WHITFIELD: Wow. All right. Jennifer Hansler, thanks so much for that.

All right, still to come, basketball star Brittney Griner waking up in the U.S. for the first time in almost 300 days. The latest on the prisoner swap between the U.S. and Russia next. Plus, more than 10 million people are under winter storm alerts today as a major storm pushes its way across the U.S. That forecast straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:15:49]

WHITFIELD: WNBA superstar Brittney Griner is in her home state of Texas today. She's receiving a routine medical evaluation after spending nearly 10 months in Russian custody. Griner was released in a prisoner swap with convicted arms dealer Viktor Bout who is back in Moscow. And Bout saying this morning that he wholeheartedly supports Vladimir Putin unprovoked war in Ukraine and that he would volunteer.

CNN's Rosa Flores has the latest on Griner's return.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NED PRICE, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We are absolutely gratified that Brittney Griner is back on American soil.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Welcome news today on Griner's return. We can confirm Brittney Griner arrived at Joint Base San Antonio. Brittney Griner now in her home state after nearly 10 months in a Russian prison, most recently serving her nine-year sentence in a Russian penal colony.

President Joe Biden's National Security Council spokesperson saying she appears to be in good health.

JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: She was very incredibly gracious and kind and humble on the flight. Very, very appreciative of the effort to get her home. FLORES (voice-over): Griner is now undergoing a medical evaluation before being reunited with her wife Cherelle and the rest of her family.

A senior Biden administration official saying that negotiations to bring Griner home were separate from any talks about Ukraine. The deal came together about one week ago after the U.S. offered to swap convicted Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout for both Griner and Paul Whelan. Whelan was detained in Russia in 2018, convicted on espionage charges and sentenced to 16 years in prison, a charge he denies. The Russians rejected that proposal.

KIRBY: It was either make this exchange, get one back. And the only one that they were willing to trade was Brittney.

FLORES (voice-over): The inner workings of the controversial prisoner swap were discussed only among a tight group of U.S. officials.

PRICE: These are not decisions that we take lightly. We study all the angles. We do all of the analysis. But at the end of the day, we have a responsibility to Americans.

FLORES (voice-over): President Biden didn't sign the commutation papers for Bout until Greiner was on the ground in Abu Dhabi, in sight of a U.S. delegation. Russian President Vladimir Putin saying the Russian Federal Security Service took charge of the swap, adding there's a possibility for further negotiations, raising hopes that Paul Whelan could be the next American freed.

PRICE: We are committed to seeing to it that Paul Whelan will have the same fate.

FLORES (voice-over): For now, Griner's family, friends and teammates say they are just happy to have her home.

CATHY ENGELBERT, WNBA COMMISSIONER: Brittney really deserved to be home. She was wrongfully detained and we're happy that she's reuniting with her family.

VINCE KOZAR, PRESIDENT, PHOENIX MERCURY: We're incredibly gratified and thankful she's back.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FLORES: We are learning more about the conditions that Brittney Griner endured in prison. According to her Russian attorney, she says that Brittney Griner was serving her sentence in a prison that forced women to sew uniforms, but Brittney Griner was too tall for the work tables. Her hands were too big for the sewing machines. So she was forced to carry fabric all day long.

Now this attorney also says that Brittney Griner just two weeks ago, cut her hair. And, Fred, she says that she did that just to make it easier on herself because of the Russian winter. Fred?

WHITFIELD: Rosa Flores, thank you so much, in San Antonio. President Biden is vowing that the U.S. will never give up on American Paul Whelan, who remains detained in Russia after being arrested in 2018 on espionage charges. CNN's Jim Sciutto takes a look at what Whelan's family is saying now and the ongoing efforts to bring him back home.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Paul Whelan's Odyssey in Russia's criminal justice system began on December 28, 2018. A former Marine, he was arrested in Moscow during a trip for the wedding of a fellow Marine to a Russian woman.

DAVID WHELAN, BROTHER OF PAUL WHELAN: He ended up taking a group of them as part of their tour through the Kremlin and then that evening, he disappeared.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): Russia's Federal Security Service accused him of being a spy.

[14:20:02]

Whelan had visited Russia before, including as early as 2006 while on a two-week leave from a deployment to Iraq. Born in Canada to British parents, Whelan move to the U.S. as a child. He has U.S., Canadian, British and Irish citizenship.

Whelan joined the marine reserves in 1994. He did multiple tours in Iraq. And during the 2006 deployment, he was accused by the military of attempting to steal more than $10,000. He was court martialed and discharged for bad conduct two years later. After the military, Whelan worked in corporate security, first as a senior manager in the global security firm Kelly Services.

And in 2017, he began working for automotive components supplier BorgWarner, eventually becoming director of Global Security. According to his brother, Whelan was a world traveler with friends in Russia. He was also active on Russian social media.

After his arrest, Russia claimed Whelan was caught, quote, red handed, with a flash drive, with state secrets. Whelan maintains he was set up.

D. WHELAN: One of the friends that he had made in Russia visited him the night of the wedding, right before the wedding happened, and gave Paul USB, just a USB stick and said that they were photos from a previous trip that they'd been on to another part of Russia. And as soon as he was given the USB stick and put it in his pocket, his door was opened by the FSB, and he was arrested and that was it.

SCIUTTO: On June 15, 2020, Whelan was convicted of espionage and sentenced to 16 years of hard labor in prison. In the years since his arrest, the U.S. government has also maintained Whelan's innocence and made repeated attempts to secure his release.

Today CNN's Jennifer Hansler spoke to Whelan by phone from the penal colony where he's being held.

PAUL WHELAN, AMERICAN DETAINED IN RUSSIA: I have to say I am greatly disappointed that more has not been done to secure my release.

HANSLER: Yes.

P. WHELAN: Especially as the four-year anniversary of my arrest is coming up. I was arrested for a crime that never occurred. I'm happy that Brittney is going home today and that Trevor went home when he did. But I don't understand why I'm still sitting here.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): Jim Sciutto, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And a major winter storm targets the West. We'll tell you the places that will see several feet of snow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:27:00]

WHITFIELD: A major winter storm is moving across the western United States expected to bring heavy coastal rain and mountain snow to the Pacific Northwest in California. Meteorologist Allison Chinchar is in the CNN Weather Center. So Allison, what are the next few days look like?

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Pretty busy and not just in the West, but this storm eventually will go from coast to coast. So there's going to be a lot of states eventually impacted here. But in the short term, yes, the main concern is going to be the West Coast states.

Right now, we've got some rain in Seattle, same thing in Portland, some very heavy rain showers sliding into areas of San Francisco, as well as Sacramento and a lot of snow. Not just in California. Really when you talk about the intermountain west, the Cascades, the Rockies, all of these areas likely to pick up at least 8 to 12 inches of snow. But when you talk about the Sierras, that's where you're really going to see some of the highest numbers.

Here you're looking at 3 to 5 feet of snow in just the next 48 to 72 hours. Along the coast, rain is going to be the big concern and you're talking 3 to 5 inches in some places. Keep in mind that's in a very short period of time. So flooding is going to be a concern, landslides, mudslides, especially along some of those burn scar areas where we did have some fires a few months ago.

In the next 24 hours, the system as a whole is going to begin to shift farther south. So now you're going to start to see more of that rain beginning to push into Southern California as well as areas of Arizona. So for today, the main concern for flooding is northern and central California. Once we get to Sunday, the main concern is Southern California including Los Angeles as well as San Diego. Then the system begins to make its way across the country bringing a lot of snow to the intermountain west and even the high plains. In fact, wind gusts are expected to get particularly high here 70 even 80 miles per hour. Very poor visibility so we could end up with true blizzard conditions across the High Plains Monday and Tuesday.

At the same time on the southern edge of this storm, one of the big concerns is actually going to be severe weather before the system continues to make its way over to the East Coast by the time we get to the end of the week. We talked about snow still quite considerable amounts in the northern area. Here you can see widespread at least 6 to 12 inches. Some areas though could top out at higher than 1 foot.

Rainfall likely about 2 to 4 inches. But keep in mind for a lot of the southeast, that ground is saturated from a lot of rain the last few days. When we talk about severe storms, Monday the main threat will be from Oklahoma City down to the Dallas Fort Worth area. Tuesday, it becomes much more widespread and a little bit stronger, Fred. So that's certainly going to be the area we keep a close eye on in the coming days.

WHITFIELD: All right, bring out those parkas, scarves and gloves if you haven't done so already. All right, Allison Chinchar, thank you so much.

All right, NASA's historic Artemis 1 mission is set to splashdown off the coast of Baja California when it returns to Earth tomorrow. The uncrewed spacecraft took a 25-day trip around the Moon as a test run for future flights with astronauts on board. The Orion capsule flew about 80 miles above the Moon's surface as it passed by.

[14:30:00]

Let's bring in Jim Breidenstein he is a former NASA Administrator in the Trump administration and a former Congressman. Thank you so much for joining us. Good to see you. So can you give us a sense of why this dry run for a future trip to the Moon is so valuable?

JIM BRIDENSTINE, FORMER NASA ADMINISTRATOR: It's hugely valuable. This is the first step in our eventual journey to Mars. So we go to the Moon to learn how to live and work on another world for long periods of time. Because when you go to Mars, you have to be willing to stay.

A lot of people don't realize Earth and Mars, we're on the same side of the sun, once every 26 months. So when you get to Mars, you have to be willing to stay. We need a place where we can learn to live and work for long periods of time, the Moon is that destination. And tomorrow for this Artemis 1 mission, tomorrow is a really big day. And a lot of things are going to be tested, and we're going to learn a lot of things.

We all have our fingers crossed. Reentering the Earth's atmosphere is not easy, especially the way they're doing it now, which has never been done before.

WHITFIELD: So what are we going to learn from this reentry? What's different about it, and what are the things that we can glean from it?

BRIDENSTINE: So this is called a skip reentry, which is think of skipping a rock. So the Orion crew capsule is going to come back at 20,000 miles per hour, it's going to reenter the atmosphere, it's going to heat up to about half the temperature of the Sun. During that time, the heat shield is going to ablate, which means it's going to shed material.

And then at one point, the capsule is going to roll 180 degrees, and go back up out into space, because it's going to need more time to cool. And then it's going to reenter a second time. And it's going to land precisely 50 miles off the coast of San Diego.

WHITFIELD: Wow.

BRIDENSTINE: So this is -- this has not been done before. So we're going to learn a lot tomorrow and it's very exciting. And again, like I said, I know everybody, brilliant folks at NASA, make no mistake, that this is still a daunting challenge, and they're up for it.

WHITFIELD: So what's the difference in the space of time of these two reentries? Is it a matter of minutes, hours?

BRIDENSTINE: We're talking about a matter of minutes. So, we're going to go downrange, and it depends on a lot of factors. But the reason to do this skip reentry is to, as precisely as possible, nail your intended point of landing. And, of course, nail the time of the landing. And if you can do that, it requires a lot less assets to go capture the astronauts, once they're in the water.

If you go back to the Apollo era, we had Navy assets all over the ocean, not knowing precisely where they were going to land. In this case, we have computing capacity, we have flight control computers, a lot of things exist today that didn't exist back then. And so we're going to precisely nail the time and the place of the landing.

WHITFIELD: These are huge ventures time, you know, time invested and a lot of money. So Artemis, you know, in fact, went over budget, right, and pass its initial deadline. So why have NASA do this mission instead of, say, private space companies who have their own, you know, deep pockets?

BRIDENSTINE: So the answer is we need to use the best of everything America has to offer. So when we go to the Moon, yes, we're using hardware that's been under development for over a decade now, which is good. But we're also going to use commercial systems where NASA is buying a service.

For example, the landing system for the Moon is going to be a service provided by a commercial provider, which we didn't have the luxury of back in the 1960s either. So what we're doing now is we're trying to take the best of everything America has to offer both what the government has been doing for over a decade and what commercial has been doing, in fact, just recently.

We're trying to put them all together in an open architecture system. That's the key. You know, the way we do rendezvous and proximity operations, or I should say docking, the way we do environmental control and life support systems, data, avionics, communications, all of that in this new architecture is open.

So, we can have commercial companies join with us in this expedition. And we can also have international partners. And what we have now is the broadest coalition in the history of humanity to not only go back to the moon, but eventually onto Mars, where is the very real possibility we could find life.

WHITFIELD: Wow. So Jim Bridenstine, where will you be tomorrow with this reentry? Are you going to be watching on some special monitor or television or what's going on?

BRIDENSTINE: So I am the former NASA Administrator, which means I have no responsibility here whatsoever, which in some ways is a great relief to me. But I will tell you, I'll be watching on TV with great anticipation like everybody else.

[14:35:06]

This has been a project that's been underway multiple administrations going back to George W. Bush and then, of course, Barack Obama, and then Donald Trump, and now Joe Biden. This is the kind of thing we can achieve when we have apolitical, bipartisan support for our program over many decades.

WHITFIELD: Well, congratulations on the parts that you've played and enjoy tomorrow's reentry from wherever you are. Jim Bridenstine, thank you so much.

BRIDENSTINE: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, coming up, archaeologists in Florida believe recent storms and beach erosion on Earth, a shipwreck from the 1800s. Details straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Right now, researchers are working to learn more about on Earth debris that is believed to be the remnants of a shipwreck from the 1800s. The wreck was discovered in Florida following coastal erosion caused by Hurricanes Ian and and Nicole, which caused several deaths and unprecedented damage earlier this year.

[14:40:14]

Well, the object was previously buried under some 5 feet of sand along Florida's Atlantic Coast, east of Orlando. Joining me right now, Chuck Meide, the Director of the Lighthouse Maritime Archaeological Maritime Program. He is leading an archeological team that is working with state officials in Florida to study what they think might be a wreck.

So what? Hi, Chuck, first of all, how you doing? I'm wondering what --

CHUCK MEIDE, DIRECTOR, LIGHTHOUSE MARITIME ARCHAEOLOGICAL MARITIME PROGRAM: I'm doing great.

WHITFIELD: Oh, wonderful. What about that debris or debris feel makes you think that possibly it is a ship?

MEIDE: Well, thanks so much for having me. We were asked by the state of Florida, my institution, which is based at the St. Augustine Lighthouse and Maritime Museum to go out and take a look at this debris. And there had been some speculation that it could be a shipwreck, or it might be a pier, or someone even thought it might be the bleachers from when they used to do races on the beach at Daytona.

But we can definitively say that it is a ship wreck. We have seen key features, ship construction features like sealing, planking and frames and stringers, with particular types of scarfs and the fasteners that are used to hold these timbers together. So, it is definitely a sailing -- the remains of a sailing ship. And it almost certainly dates to the 1800s.

WHITFIELD: Oh, my gosh, fascinating. And so, what about those markers or pieces of that ship, certainly make you believe that it is from the 1800s? I mean, can you give me an idea of some of the details that were unearthed?

MEIDE: Yes. So, you know, it's interesting in -- if you have a random piece of wooden wreckage, wooden hull timbers that come up on a beach in Florida on our Atlantic coast. Just statistically alone, it's most likely that they will date to the 1800s. And that's just because we have so much more shipping in the 19th century or the 1800s than we did in previous centuries.

So we kind of start off almost with that assumption. And then we are looking as best we can, in this case, what had been exposed was buried again. So we had to dig down to expose these timbers one more time. And looking closely at the timbers, we haven't seen anything that would suggest an earlier date or a more recent date.

So everything looks very consistent with the type, say, the types of bolts or the types of iron spikes or wooden pegs that are there holding the timbers together. Everything is consistent with what we have seen on other shipwrecks that date to the 1800s.

WHITFIELD: Wow. And do you have any suspicion, or are you familiar with any particular ships, names of ships, or the use of these ships from the 1800s that this could possibly be part of because I remember, you know, diving with a dive group that were looking for slave trade ships along the Florida coast.

MEIDE: It's most likely that this is a merchant vessel, these big wooden sailing ships. During the 19th century, you know, America was a maritime nation, we built our economic power and our military power because of our proximity to the oceans on either side of our nation. And it's most likely that this was a merchant ship. So this would have been kind of the equivalent of an 18-wheeler, semi-truck that we see on the interstates today.

It's probably not likely that it dates to the slave trade or probably would date until after the slave trade was outlawed. But it's -- it seems, again, we're -- you know, odds are certainly that it was carrying a cargo, perhaps a cargo of lumber, or it could have, you know, if it was coming from the Caribbean sailing north along our coast, it could have had a cargo of fruit. If it was coming from the Gulf of Mexico sailing along the Florida coast, it could have had cargo of lumber.

If it was coming from Boston or New York or Philadelphia, sailing south along the Florida coast, then it may have had manufactured goods, but it's most likely one of these, again, kind of 18 wheelers of the 19th century bringing goods to or from --

WHITFIELD: Yes.

MEIDE: -- one part of our coasts to another.

WHITFIELD: OK. And then what will you do with the remnants of this find?

MEIDE: Well, that's a great question and a lot of folks asked if we're going to be digging up the entire shipwreck and putting it on display and it's really -- it's just prohibitively expensive to try to recover waterlogged timbers that are a few 100 years old, that in this case, maybe 80 to 100 feet long, is what people report in the size of this wreck from what they saw when it was more fully exposed.

[14:45:08]

You know, it would take millions of dollars literally, to preserve those timbers. Now if they stay where they are, if they're in wet sand, and if they're buried there in the dark, they will literally last, you know, virtually forever. They'll lasts hundreds and hundreds of more years.

If we were to pull these timbers out, they would begin to dry out unless we acted fast and got them submerged in a gigantic vat with particular chemicals, and we'd have to heat those chemicals.

WHITFIELD: Wow, fascinating.

MEIDE: You just have to do that to preserve the woods. So it really is something that's so expensive. The best thing for us to do to protect the ship is to record it. You know we've taken woods samples, we've taken measurements, we've taken a lot of photographs, we can generate a 3D model of the exposed timbers that we saw. So we have recorded it as best we can to try to hopefully understand it.

And maybe --

WHITFIELD: Yes.

MEIDE: -- when we do some research in the historical archives, identify it perhaps by name --

WHITFIELD: Incredible. MEIDE: -- if we have some good candidates that went down in the area. But it would really -- it just is -- there's no way that we can take the entire ship out.

WHITFIELD: Chuck Meide, it's quite the undertaking. All right. Thank you.

MEIDE: Indeed. Thank you so much.

WHITFIELD: Finding (ph) fun. All right. We'll be right back. Good luck on that project.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:50:45]

WHITFIELD: The sports world is in mourning today after the sudden passing of longtime journalist Grant Wahl. He was a driving force in American soccer coverage for decades. While was in Qatar for the World Cup when he collapsed in the press area on Friday. The details of his death still unclear.

Joining us right now, Sports and Media Reporter for The Washington Post, Ben Strauss. Ben, you talked about his passing and the impact that he's made in the world of sports journalism. And customarily, you know, people are hanging on his every word when he is writing about athletes and sports. And just recently, people were kind of enthralled with what he was writing about and talking about in terms of him not feeling well. Does any of this make any sense right now, Ben?

BEN STRAUSS, SPORTS AND MEDIA REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes, it's -- I used to start and say, this is really just a heartbreaking day for Grant's family, his friends, people who knew him really well. And also, you know, in a lot of ways, the soccer community in the United States, this, you know, we're talking about the -- probably the preeminent soccer journalist in this country at Sports Illustrated, you know, for so many years.

One of the very first people to cover soccer full time, and to cover World Cups and European soccer and women's soccer too, you know, before mainstream media paid, you know, as much attention to it as it does now. So, I think really fair to call him a trailblazer in terms of soccer coverage, and, you know, somebody with a real outsized impact in terms of how we view soccer in this country.

And, you know, I talk to a colleague of mine who was in the press box, you know, yesterday with him, and really just a heartbreaking scene, you know, where he collapsed and, you know, there were paramedics on the scene, and he did not make it. And so, you know, you've just seen the outpouring of support from journalists, from people in the soccer community. Really just heartbroken over, you know, what's happened.

WHITFIELD: Yes, it's so sudden, so stunning. I mean, you know, he was open about talking about, you know, his chest, you know, feeling tightness of chest not feeling well, thinking, you know, it was bronchitis. We talked with our John Berman earlier, who's also good friends with him and had spoke with him recently, and thought maybe it was bronchitis. But then, you know, very suddenly, then collapsing and the circumstances still very mysterious.

Can you also tell us anything more about, you know, his experiences in Qatar? Most recently, you know, he was even refused entry, right, at a stadium because, you know, he was wearing a rainbow soccer ball shirt. So he was a prolific writer, but he was not afraid, you know, of making statements for the sake of justice as well, right?

STRAUSS: Yes, absolutely, right. He's was an evangelist for the sport of soccer, but certainly not afraid to, you know, to use a cliche, just to speak truth to power. And, you know, as much as anybody has covered, you know, some of the more unseemly aspects of this World Cup in Qatar, and at the beginning of the tournament, wore a soccer ball rainbow t-shirt. And he was stopped at the gate, trying to cover one of the games.

He was detained by Qatari security forces who told him he had to take the shirt off. And, you know, he tweeted about this, and then wrote about it extensively on his Substack and sort of one of these, you know, media moments and one of these incidents that sort of explain what is happening in Qatar. What this was about, it's not just about soccer. There's a lot going on in Qatar.

And he was one of the journalists. A lot of them also we should say. But one of the preeminent guys and one of the leading guys sort of writing about, you know, this isn't just about wins and losses, this isn't just about who's, you know, going to advance in the tournament --

WHITFIELD: Yes.

STRAUSS: -- this is about what's happening in Qatar and what it means, you know, to a lot of different marginalized communities.

[14:55:00]

WHITFIELD: Ben, I mean, the loss is so great. You know, Grant Wahl representing so much and great journalism. Courageous in his reporting and in the stance that he would take. Ben Strauss, thank you so much, of The Washington Post. Really appreciate you.

And the newsroom continues right now with Jim Acosta. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)