Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Popular U.S. Soccer Journalist Dies While Covering Match; Health Officials Concerned Over Spike In Flu, RSV, And COVID Cases; Brittney Griner Faces Challenges After 10-Month Imprisonment; Former President's 2024 Bid Off To A Rocky Start; Studies Suggest Link Between Depression And Gut Health; New Artificially Intelligent Chatbot Is Scary Good. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired December 10, 2022 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: It would. Absolutely, it would. Hang on to that vest. Just in case, Harry Enten. Thanks so much.

And be sure to check out Harry's podcast Margins of Error. You can find it on your favorite podcast app or at cnn.com/audio.

And the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.

I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. The top stories for you on this Saturday night.

One of the most important voices in the soccer community falls silent. Remembering beloved sports journalist Grant Wahl who died suddenly at the World Cup at just 49 years old.

Plus, Dr. Anthony Fauci warns of mandate fatigue, but a rising number of cases of respiratory illnesses is leading to a new debate. Is it time to mask up again?

And we're going to ask someone who was recently released in a prisoner swap. What the journey ahead may look like for Brittney Griner now that she's been free from Russia?

You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Well, he was a beloved star in the world of soccer without scoring a single goal. Tonight, the sports world is mourning American soccer journalist, Grant Wahl. He was a preeminent writer respected around the world and was only 49 years old. Wahl collapsed in the press area during Friday's Argentina-Netherlands quarterfinals match. And today in his place, a memorial of white flowers.

But he was much more than a writer. He was a tireless ambassador for the sport, a writer who never ignored inconvenient truths about the sport he loved. CNN's Don Riddell has the latest from Qatar.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DON RIDDELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL SPORTS ANCHOR: At the most extraordinary World Cup game, the most devastating news. As the quarterfinal match between Argentina and the Netherlands went into extra time, American soccer writer and broadcaster, Grant Wahl, died after collapsing suddenly in the stadium.

Just days before, the 49-year-old had spoken in his podcast about feeling unwell during the tournament.

My body, I think, told me, even after the U.S. went out, dude, you are not sleeping enough. And it rebelled on me. And so I've had a case of bronchitis this week. I've been to the medical clinic at the media center twice now.

After collapsing on Friday night, on-site medics reportedly spent 20 to 25 minutes treating Wahl. News of his sudden death quickly sent shockwaves throughout the football community.

JON CHAMPION, ESPN COMMENTATOR: I was at the Netherlands game last night when all this horrible drama was unfolding. I wasn't aware of it at the time. So to wake up this morning and switch on my laptop and see the news was just devastating really.

RIDDELL: Wahl made his name initially as a writer for Sports Illustrated, introducing then unknown high school basketball player, LeBron James, to the world through a memorable cover story.

LEBRON JAMES, LOS ANGELES LAKERS FORWARD: Very fond of Grant. And, you know, having that cover shoot, you know, me being a teenager and him covering that, it was -- it was a pretty cool thing.

RIDDELL: But it was as a soccer writer that he made his greatest mark.

GRANT WAHL, AMERICAN SPORTSWRITER: I'm Grant Wahl writing for FIFA president.

RIDDELL: In 2011, he used a campaign to run for FIFA president to expose the corruption within football's world governing body.

Wahl quickly emerged as a cheerleader for the beautiful game in North America long before it was fashionable.

CHAMPION: He was one of the first people to welcome me when I made my big move across the Atlantic.

He was almost a missionary and in that sense. He would travel around the globe, telling people to take American soccer seriously.

RIDDELL: In the run up to the World Cup, Wahl made it his mission to expose the deaths of migrant workers Qatar had enlisted to build the stadiums. He continued to advocate for human rights as soon as the tournament got underway, refusing to follow the demands of stadium security to remove a rainbow shirt worn in solidarity with the LGBTQ plus community.

Wahl tell CNN that he was detained for 25 minutes by Qatari authorities for wearing the shirt.

WAHL: They forcibly took my phone out of my hands. They made me stand in front of a CCTV camera. They continue to try to get me to take off my shirt.

RIDDELL: He went on to receive apologies from a FIFA representative and a senior member of the security team.

After spending 12 years writing about the build-up to Qatar, this tournament was Wahl's eighth and final Men's World Cup. The tributes that have poured in have commended Wahl's commitment to exposing injustices within the sport and cemented his legacy as one of the greatest advocates of American soccer

Don Riddell, CNN, Qatar.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And CNN spoke with a podcaster who co-hosted a show with Wahl. He was not surprised that grant worked through his illness because of his love of the game.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WITTYNGHAM, SOCCER PODCASTER AND COMMENTATOR: I'm not surprised that he still wanted to go and watch Argentina play a World Cup quarterfinal against the Netherlands. This is, in American Sports terms, our Super Bowl. In the realm of political news, it is our election. It is -- it's the biggest thing. You don't -- you don't stop. You push through.

[19:05:09]

And relative to other World Cups, Grant told me that this one was fairly easy because there's not -- there's not -- there's no travel. You stay in the same bed every night, which is not the case when you're traveling the whole of Russia, or the whole of Brazil, or the whole of South Africa as in previous World Cups. You kind of get to go back to the same bed every night.

So he always kind of said to me, yes, there's no problem. This is a cinch. And I believed him. And, yes, he was sick, but you could never have possibly expected that this would happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: I want to bring in Dr. Leana Wen, CNN medical analyst and former Baltimore health commissioner. So, Dr. Wen, what do you make of Wahl's symptoms and health complaints, and then his sudden death at just the age of 49?

LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: First of all, Pamela, this is so heartbreaking, so terrible, and tragic. And my heart just goes out to Dr. Celine Gounder, his wife, and his entire family on this day.

And, second, there is so much that we just don't know, we heard about his sudden collapse, we heard about this viral illness that preceded it. But we don't know whether these two things are necessarily related.

People get viral illnesses all the time. This is the season when many people have colds or the flu or other things. And especially for somebody who's generally young, and what it sounds like pretty healthy. It's extremely rare for them to die, much less to die suddenly from that viral illness.

And also for people who do die, it ends up -- it's not usually sudden. In fact, there is gradual deterioration, somebody may be getting short of breath, they're in the hospital, et cetera. So that sudden death, it could be related. I mean, there is -- there are possibilities, maybe the viral illness, and we don't know this, but maybe the viral illness somehow affected the heart in some way.

But there are other possibilities, too, including whether the sudden death could be caused by a sudden heart rhythm problem or a heart attack or a blood clot. Again, we just don't know. And again, it's just so tragic at this point.

BROWN: It really is. There's a lot we don't know. And you're right, you know, there could have been an underlying medical issue and the virus could have played into that, made things worse. We don't know. But what we do know is what Grant had talked about, he had talked about not feeling well in a podcast. He said that there was a lot of coughing especially among journalists that sometimes it sounded like, quote, a death rattle.

And I'm wondering, you know, we just heard from that podcast where he was saying, you know, look like, I'm not surprised he would push through this, even though he wasn't feeling well. This is the World -- you know, the World Cup is like, you know, the election, basically, or the Super Bowl. I mean, it's such a big deal.

How dangerous is fatigue, like, pushing through when you're battling an illness?

WEN: Yes, it's a good question. And I want to, first of all, just say again that we really don't know what caused Grant Wahl's death. And so I don't want to, in any way, imply that he could have done something differently that might have prevented this outcome.

I'd say more generally about viral illnesses and fatigue. It really depends on how someone it best copes with that with the illness themselves. Because people cope with illnesses differently. Some people rest is really good for them, and they need to take time off from work, they need to make sure that they stay in bed. And that's what will help them. Other people, myself included, want to exercise even as we have viral illnesses, because that's also what keeps us energized and that helps us to recuperate as well.

So I would say in general, listen to your body, know yourself the best. If you think you need to rest, get that rest. Many people don't, will push through either because of work or personal life or preference. And that alone is not -- is probably not going to cause somebody to deteriorate.

But that -- all that said, be careful, be on the lookout in particular for worrisome symptoms, for example, worsening shortness of breath or chest pain or pressure. Those are all reasons to be concerned and to seek help.

BROWN: Like you said, this is the season for those kinds of respiratory illnesses, but a lot more to learn. The bottom line is what we do know is that this is a heartbreaking loss. Just a tremendous loss and our hearts are with Celine Gounder, his wife, who was a CNN contributor. I just feel so -- I feel for her so deeply and the grief she must be going through right now.

All right. Dr. Wen, stay with us. We're going to chat and a little bit on the show.

But right now, as we just were talking about the flu, RSV, and COVID- 19 are spiking across the United States at the same time. These respiratory illnesses are filling hospitals as a rate not seen since last winter's COVID spike. About 80 percent of the country's hospital beds are in use right now.

CNN's Brynn Gingras has more for us, Brynn.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Pam. Yes. The New York State Department of Health says this is a complex challenges. We talk about that triple threat of COVID-19, RSV infections, and of course the flu, which is really seeing the biggest surge.

[19:10:01]

I want to point to some data that they gave us just within the last few weeks post-Thanksgiving. The Department of Health saying the number of laboratory confirmed flu cases has nearly tripled over the past three weeks, and flu hospitalizations have more than doubled. "In addition, COVID-19 continues to pose a significant threat, particularly for unvaccinated or under vaccinated New Yorkers, as the virus remains one of the leading causes of death in the United States."

So in response to this, the state of New York and in particularly New York City, saying, hey, there's a mask advisory now. Wear your mask, it might be a good idea. It's not a mandate. But certainly if you are a child, if you're already feeling sick, if you are immunocompromised, 65 years and older, it might be a good idea to put that mask back on as these viruses are sort of circulate -- circulating communities.

And it's not just New York, we're seeing this all across the country. We talk about those 80% of beds full in hospitals because of the surge and viruses. Well, CDC releasing this statistic as well, 26 hospitalizations for every 100,000 people are due to the flu, that's the highest it's seen in more than a decade.

So these are serious. Viruses going around, people are getting sick. And it's important to take those precautions, wearing a mask, making sure you're up to date on your vaccines, particularly as we head into the end-of-year holiday season and into the new year. Pam.

BROWN: All right. Brynn Gingras, thanks so much. Let's welcome back CNN medical analyst, Dr. Leana Wen. So, Doctor Wen, I want to delve a little bit deeper into this. How concerned are you about this triple threat of the flu, RSV, and COVID-19? And what is your advice for people? This is the time of year where people want to get together to celebrate the holidays.

WEN: On a population level, I am concerned about this tripledemic because we know that when hospitals become overwhelmed, care suffers for everyone, people who are coming in for these viral illnesses. But also people come in for car accidents, heart attacks, and so forth. And so that is a problem.

I'm also concerned for people who are particularly vulnerable. So newborns, older individuals, people who are immunocompromised, they are at much higher risk for severe outcomes. And if there's a lot of virus around them, that's very concerning to them.

In terms of what people should do, certainly, if you are in this high risk category, you need to make sure that you are -- that you have received your flu vaccine, if you're eligible that you have gotten the COVID booster if you're eligible. You also should consider in masking, especially wearing a high-quality, well-fitting N-95 or equivalent masks in all indoor crowded settings. If you are one of these people who are most vulnerable.

For everybody else, you should also think about masking in high-risk settings. So maybe you're not masking everywhere, but bring the mask with you and put it on when you're boarding your flight. And it's a very crowded space with lots of people packed together. Or maybe you're not wearing a mask during a conference or in a boardroom presentation. But you could still be wearing a mask in a crowded elevator or a train station. Those types of things can help to reduce risk for us, but especially for people around us who are in those extremely vulnerable categories.

So there is a lot of talk about re-masking. Dr. Anthony Fauci warns of mandate fatigue. Here's what he said, "Obviously, you would like people to use good judgment to protect themselves and their family and that community without necessarily having to mandate anything. Because you know there is a fatigue about being mandated. People don't like to be told what to do."

So what do you think, Doctor Wen? Do you think the masks mandates of old can realistically be brought back?

WEN: I don't. And that's because we really need to reserve mandates, top-down government restrictions for when they are truly needed. And there has to be an extremely high bar, really a five-alarm fire. And if we are bringing them back without that kind of emergency being present, then what happens when that actually happens? As in what happens if there's a new variant or new virus that's extremely deadly that we don't have vaccines or treatments for? And we really want people to mask up at that point. They're not going to listen to us then. Right now, we actually have other tools our -- at our disposal. We have vaccines for COVID and for the flu. We have treatments that are highly effective and safe. And we have other things including asking people who are highly vulnerable to make sure that they protect themselves through N-95, K-95 et cetera, well-fitting masks. And so I really would recommend that people mask in high-risk settings for vulnerable individuals to take additional precautions. But I think that the bar, especially for government mandates needs to be really high.

BROWN: All right. Dr. Leana Wen, we'll leave it there. Thanks so much.

Well, now that she is out of Russia, U.S. officials say their focus is helping Brittney Griner pick her life back up. We'll get the perspective of someone who was also recently released as part of a prisoner swap and what that process is like. How do you come back from that and settle back into a society?

[19:15:03]

Plus, part of a cliff collapses onto a beach in California. Look at this incredible video as the region braces for a storm system that could bring more danger ahead.

And pretty sure you've seen them all over your social media feeds. Look at this. Do you know who this is on your screen? Can you guess who this is? People feeding their selfies into an AI app. Well, I tried it. I have some results to show you. But is there also a risk to the trend? We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, after being imprisoned in Russia for nearly 10 months, WNBA star Brittney Griner is beginning a long process of getting re- acclimated to life at home. And a new statement, Griner's wife, Cherelle writes in part, "As BG and I started our journey to heal our minds, body, and spirits, I want to personally say thank you to some of the hands, seen and unseen, that helped make it possible for me to see my wife again."

[19:20:06]

And my next guest knows what the road ahead looks like. Jorge Toledo was one of the Citgo Six. It's a group of oil and gas executives from the Citgo Corporation. They went to Venezuela on a business trip in 2017, but ended up in prison by the government.

So we want to welcome Jorge to the show. And George, you were just released this pack -- past October as part of a prisoner swap. How are you doing? It really hasn't been that long since you've been back after being detained there for five years?

JORGE TOLEDO, RELEASED FROM VENEZUELA AFTER FIVE YEARS OF DETENTION: Yes. It has been two months after my release. And, well, it's like closing a cycle, which ended on October the 1st, but then a new cycle started then, which is how are -- you should be reintegrated into society into your family. So it's -- the game was not over in that regard.

BROWN: Tell us a little bit more about how the game wasn't over. And what you went through as you tried to reintegrate.

TOLEDO: Well, I recall when I just landed in San Antonio, so with that flow of adrenaline, so it was -- I felt great. So the taste of freedom, the smell of freedom, and you never think about any, you know, aspect as a consequence of your captivity.

But as the time passed by, so you start getting -- and you get into the normal life, you notice that, you know, reintegration means challenge, and everything, you know, becomes a challenge. So -- but, you know, the challenge represents, for instance, your relationship with your family.

So in my case, I spent almost five years in captivity, so it's a long time. So your relationship with your spouse, your children, even my grandchildren, so that I'm now building a new relationship because when I was detained, they were just babies.

So the aspect of the family is important, but also some other aspects in their normal life, such as your career, your normal activities. I used to be a marathon runner as an example. So how can I go back to running in -- and then minor things that becomes true challenges or source of anxiety such as driving. So you feel insecure to drive? So there's so many things that you need to deal with.

BROWN: That's really interesting. You wouldn't necessarily think about that, but that things that seem so simple before like driving would become a challenge and take on a whole new layer, after you've been through what you have been through.

You've only been home for about six weeks now. What has been the hardest part so far? Do you have post-traumatic stress? Are there moments of the day that are particularly hard? Are you in therapy?

TOLEDO: No. Well, in my case, I had -- I have to say that I had the benefit of being involved in this program that was put in place by the Department of Defense and the Department of State in San Antonio, which is I spent four days in a, you know, extensive medical checkup. And then the following six days, I spent time with a group of psychologists.

So this program helped me to go over all the potential issues that I was going to, you know, cope, in my reintegration, and also develop some understanding and tools on how to manage your reintegration. So that program was, I would say, extremely important in my reintegration.

When I came back, my -- I would say that I had three key challenges, the first one obviously, you know, the aftermath on -- from the -- your health, so I had a -- I'm struggling with my sleeping. I -- but also, I came back with some respiratory issues and some issues with my kidneys that I'm monitoring now.

But also the, you know, the connivance in with my family, the daily life, that integration. Because my family was also, you know, concern about what was my state, what was my kind of shape from the mental, physical, and spiritual standpoint. But in my case, it has been working pretty good, so we have developed our process in a very good fashion, and are so far, I am not within any therapy or any other help besides what I received in San Antonio.

[19:25:18]

BROWN: Well, I'm glad to hear you're doing so well. Very quickly because we are at a time, but I want to hear from you what advice you would give to Brittney Griner as she reintegrates.

TOLEDO: Well, I -- first of all, we need to swallow this slow. I mean, you know, this is a new process. Take your time. And, you know, I hope that they -- she's engaged also in the program in San Antonio that she can, you know, spend the entire program and take all the advantage to help her to get integrated in a better way.

It's important to, you know, spend time with her family. So it's very important that to feel the presence of your family, the love of your family, and let the family love you. So -- because the feel of love is something so important. So the human heart is fundamental and can be healing.

And in my case, so I'm trying to help others in similar situation. So the sense of being helping others is a way that you can heal as well. So that is also part of my process. That was what I would say. And what I would suggest really decides, you know, saying that I'm so happy that she's back home.

BROWN: All right. George Toledo, thank you so much. Glad you were doing so well, as we said.

And still ahead, tonight, my conversation with Republican Senator Bill Cassidy on the state of the GOP after the midterms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: What do you say to the GOP in its effort to retake the Senate? Where did the GOP go wrong?

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): You know -- oh, my gosh. They're about to do a post-mortem on all that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:31:35]

BROWN: Well in the weeks since Donald Trump launched his bid to return to the White House, his company was convicted of tax fraud. He called for the termination of the Constitution. He had dinner with Kanye West and Nick Fuentes, and another one of his handpick candidates lost their race -- and that is just a partial list.

I spoke with Republican Senator Bill Cassidy about whether the former President factored into the GOP's Georgia Senate loss recently. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: When the former President met with Nick Fuentes and Kanye West, you tweeted: "President Trump hosting racist antisemites for dinner encourages other racist antisemites. These attitudes are immoral and should not be entertained. This is not the Republican Party."

But how do you convince Americans that this isn't the Republican Party when you have the leader of the party doing this and meeting with a prominent QAnon conspiracy theorist as well, Liz Crokin?

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): Well, first, I would reject the premise that he's the leader of the Republican Party.

BROWN: About 44 percent of Republicans in a recent poll said that they would support him to be President.

CASSIDY: A couple things. First, they might, but they might support somebody else as well. Secondly, that doesn't mean that he is the leader of the Republican Party.

The Republican Party does not have a President in office right now. He does not have anybody who is obviously -- not my leader -- we're led by principles, we're led by kind of concepts, a right of center party, which thinks that smaller government, that individual responsibility, that free markets is more likely to bring prosperity to a family and prosperity to our country. Now, that's what leads our party.

And if we speak about the future, and if we speak to people who are right now struggling, but how our policies are more likely to give them prosperity, then that's how we will be perceived.

Now, none of us can be responsible for everybody within our family or within our tribe or within our sphere of acquaintances, and we shouldn't be asked to, but if we are responsible to those principles, then we win.

BROWN: What do you say to the GOP in its effort to retake the Senate? Where did the GOP go wrong?

CASSIDY: Oh, you know, oh, my gosh, they're about to do a post mortem on all of that. So, it's obviously individual races that you have to look at. And --

BROWN: But do you think Trump and that kind of behavior played into it all?

CASSIDY: Well, the more closely associated with somebody was with President Trump, the more likely they underperformed, and that's one objective that we see out there right now. But I'm sure there'll be a more in depth analysis after that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And we also discussed how he will work alongside Senator Bernie Sanders, someone with totally opposite political views on the same Committee in the Senate.

Be sure and check out the rest of the interview tomorrow night with Republican Senator Cassidy.

Well, still ahead, when it comes to solving depression, there are no easy answers, but two new study suggests a link between depression and what's in your gut.

I'm really looking forward to this conversation. It is so interesting.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:38:38]

BROWN: In Southern California, there are concerns of more landslides after a portion of a cliff collapsed. This happened just south of Los Angeles. Luckily no one was injured, but wow look at this.

An atmospheric river event or a plume of moisture streaming in from the Pacific Ocean, it is expected to bring heavy rain up and down the west coast through the weekend and extreme snowfall across the Sierras.

All right, so this is a story I have been looking forward to talking about all night.

Are you feeling a little blue? A lot blue? I know a lot of us during this time of year can have seasonal depression.

Well, it is no secret that the rates of depression and anxiety have soared during the past few years. In fact, the World Health Organization says that during the pandemic, worldwide rates increased by 25 percent.

But two new studies offer an intriguing thought: Could bacteria in your gut be to blame or at least partly to blame?

Joining us now to talk about this is Jack Gilbert, a microbiologist from University of California San Diego.

All right, so Jack before we dig in here, I want to clarify these studies from the journal, "Nature Communications" only found association, not a cause and effect.

But that said, look, for years I've been hearing about gut health. I have some people in my family who are like super healthy and I always like, and I always like, sure I did -- I was like, gut health? You know, that's so out there.

[19:40:05]

But now there are more and more studies supporting that there is a direct connection between particularly, potentially between gut health and diseases beyond depression, including obesity, arthritis, diabetes and several cancers. So it's not so far-fetched, is it?

JACK GILBERT, MICROBIOLOGIST, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SAN DIEGO: It's not. Really, we've actually demonstrated many times that your gastrointestinal health, whether you're suffering from diarrhea or constipation can be very closely linked to depression and anxiety.

We even know that antibiotics, which kill off the bacteria in your gut can be linked to depression, but antivirals and antifungals cannot. And we have a lot of data from animals working in mice and rats, that shows that what goes on inside their little guts can play a big role in shaping their behavior, and maybe even their depression and anxiety.

BROWN: So how does that work then? I mean, the bacteria in your gut impacting what's going on in your brain.

GILBERT: It is two ways, right? One, they produce a lot of compounds, chemicals that actually go into your bloodstream, and they get into your brain and change how your brain processes chemistry. Secondly, they change your immune system, they cause inflammation or reduce the inflammation.

And one of the central tenants or central side effects of depression is neuro inflammation, inflammation on the brain. And so that's really important. If we can shape the chemistry of the blood and shape the immune system responses in somebody, we might be able to treat depression directly.

BROWN: That's fascinating.

All right, so the obvious next question is, how should we do that? Like, what steps should we be taking?

GILBERT: There are two ways and these two studies are the vanguard of a number of other studies that have come out in the past, and new studies that are coming out and haven't yet been published, which suggests that people who are depressed are missing certain bacteria that have certain functions that play a critical role in maintaining mental health.

Secondly, diet. We've known for many years, you know, the whole idea of being hangry when you haven't got enough of blood sugar is one of those. But we've known for many years, that diet can play a role in mental health.

So, that two pronged approach of new revolutionary probiotics, living bacteria added into the body plus diet will become central to treating depression and anxiety in the future.

BROWN: All right, so I want to drill down on that more because I want to do this. I want to do everything I need to be doing because it's just so important.

So should I be taking probiotics every day, and what kind of food? What should be part of my diet? GILBERT: Unfortunately, there are very few clinical trials that have really demonstrated that any of the existing probiotics you can buy in the grocery store or the drugstore really have any efficacy for treating depression.

We are talking about new organisms, which aren't currently commercially available, but which are going through clinical trials right now and should be available soon.

For diet, a lot of it's down to eating healthy, it is what your mother told you growing up, hopefully, right? You know, eat some more greens, eat some more fiber, try to reduce the amount of sugar you consume. The saturated fats you consume can also cause issues.

We want to be able to maintain a healthy diet in order to maintain a healthy body and a healthy mind.

BROWN: As one doctor told me one time, look for foods that your grandmother would recognize. So, I always --

GILBERT: Yes.

BROWN: I try to keep that in mind when I try to, you know, focus on my diet.

Well, this was a really interesting conversation. I learned a lot, Jack Gilbert. Thanks so much.

Coming up next, we sit down with a tech expert to discuss the latest developments in AI and how it is changing the way we interact with machines.

Can you believe, none of what I just said was written by a human? It was written by something called Chat GPT.

We're going to explain how and why that is making some people nervous, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:48:28]

BROWN: Well tonight, the future is now.

A new artificial intelligence chatbot, Chat GPT has fascinated and terrified the internet with its incredible writing ability.

From essays to news articles, even complex computer codes, this thing is scary good.

So as a test, the show asked it to write a poem about this show and see what it would come up with. Well, an instant later, and I mean an instant, this is what I came up with. Check it out.

"In the CNN NEWSROOM with Pamela Brown, a steady voice that carries through the town. She brings us news from near and far informing us with her journalistic charm."

I don't know about how true that is about the journalistic charm, but that's pretty impressive that it just shot that out so quickly.

So the question is, are we ready for this brave new world? Let's discuss with author and futurist, Ian Khan. All right, so let's dive right into it, both the promises and perils of this technology.

I want to start though with the good here. Make the case for how chatbots like Chat GPT can improve our lives.

IAN KHAN, AUTHOR AND FUTURIST: So Pamela Chat GPT changes things because now we have fed so much data or they have had so much data to artificial intelligence that now it's able to learn faster, which means we can do things at a higher speed, which means we can find solutions to problems and the solutions and vaccines for diseases faster that's literally the great news about it that we're making progress in artificial intelligence.

[19:50:10]

BROWN: All right, so as you know, this technology, it is also prompting a lot of concerns. Look, the idea that it could like help us cure diseases, that's amazing. But there is also concern about, you know, it could become a tool for misinformation, that it could be used to write college essays, will replace programmers, teachers, dare I say, TV hosts. How serious do you take these concerns?

KHAN: So these concerns are genuine and honestly, Chat GPT is going to spew out whatever question you ask, it is going to give you the answers whether it's an essay, a letter, poetry, whatever you give it, you ask, it is going to give you the answers and that can be a good thing and a bad thing.

Because it's so new to us, that's why everybody is finding it intriguing, exciting, and at the same time, it's a bit scary as well. But we need controls and those controls have to come from universities, institutions, organizations, because it's just the machine at the end of the day. It's just technology that's finding these keywords out of billions and billions of keywords, and putting them together based on some logic.

It has no intelligence of its own. It's not a sentient AI. It's just an artificial machine that's just putting one and one together without knowing what it means.

BROWN: All right, so let's talk about another artificial intelligence that a lot of our viewers probably saw on their social media feeds this week.

I remember when I saw it, I was like, "What is this?"

It's a digital art generated, Lensa AI, and it is one of the top apps in the world right now. You can have AI create artistic portraits of you by giving it several selfies. So I downloaded it today. Let's put ours on the screen. You've also done it. Pretty cool. Although, I will say yours looks a lot more like you than I think mine looks like me.

But the bottom line here, that debate aside, unless you want to weigh in, there are problems, right? There is privacy concerns about giving apps this kind of information, and there are also concerns by artists who are saying that technology is profiting from learning their style and copying it. What's your take?

KHAN: Pamela, we are literally in the Golden Age of technology where we're making progress, but we haven't become a civilization that's going to live on Mars anytime soon.

Having said that, this is a great step that computers are able to generate imagery. This is going to pave way for the creator economy because guess what? People and their creativity is still needed and computers and technology cannot do it.

I really like what Lensa does. It does a great job of taking these millions of designs and taking your and my picture and people's pictures and putting out portraits of them. Amazing.

But this is this is very small in terms of automation of technology and putting one and one together. I think it's going to create more opportunities for us to think -- you know, it cannot replace a Picasso. A Picasso will always be a Picasso and Lensa AI art will always be Lensa AI art.

So we have to take that with a bit of -- a pinch of salt.

BROWN: Yes, you're absolutely right. That's such an important point. I can't get over how much yours looks so much like you. It's really remarkable.

I will say there was one picture it showed with huge bags under my eyes. I was like, Lensa, I do not like this. It's sometimes too realistic. But anyway, Ian Khan, thank you for that conversation. We appreciate it.

And still ahead, some Moroccan magic and World Cup history. What the African nation pulled off that no other team on the continent has before in the global soccer tournament.

But first a reminder to tune in and find out who will be the 2022 CNN Hero of the Year.

ANNOUNCER: Tomorrow, it's the time of year to be inspired, and honor some of humanity's best.

CARRIE BROECKER, PEACE OF MIND DOG RESCUE: We have found calls for almost 3,000 dogs.

TYRIQUE GLASGOW, YOUNG CHANCES FOUNDATION: Our Community Center used to be the community drug house.

BOBBY WILSON, METRO ATLANTA URBAN FARM: I want my grandchildren to have it better than what I have it today.

RICHARD CASPER, CREATIVETS: I just always wanted to serve other people.

TERESA GRAY, MOBILE MEDICS INTERNATIONAL: Human suffering has no borders. People are people and love is love.

ANNOUNCER: Join Anderson Cooper and Kelly Ripa live as they present the 2022 Hero of the Year.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Join me --

CHRISTOPHER MELONI, ACTOR: In honoring --

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": CNN Hero of the Year.

ANNOUNCER: CNN Heroes. An All-Star Tribute tomorrow at eight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:59:36]

BROWN: Well, they are still partying in Morocco after their World Cup team made history.

[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

BROWN: That's the sound of victory as Moroccan fans celebrate their stunning defeat of Portugal, one to nil, and as the first African team to reach a World Cup semifinal.

For one player, it was all about mom.

A Moroccan player invited his mother to the field where they both danced and celebration. Look at this.

Up next for Team Morocco, a semifinal clash against former colonial ruler, France on Wednesday.

And for team Portugal and superstar, Cristiano Ronaldo, a long plane ride home.

Well, thank you for watching. I'm Pamela Brown. See you tomorrow at 5:00 Eastern.

Up next, get to know the people making the world a better place, a "CNN Heroes" Special "Sharing the Spotlight" starts now.

[20:00:29]