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Orion Capsule Makes Successful Splashdown In Pacific Ocean; Lockerbie Bombing In US Custody 34 Years After Attack; Ukraine Launches Missile Attack On Russian-Occupied Melitopol. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired December 11, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:24]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

Splashdown: The historic Artemis 1 Mission has just come to a successful end. This is the moment the Orion capsule landed in the Pacific Ocean off Mexico's Baja, California.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Splashdown. From Tranquility Base to Taurus- Littrow, to the tranquil waters of the Pacific, the latest chapter of NASA's journey to the moon comes to a close, Orion back on Earth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: All right, this 25-and-a-half day uncrewed test flight around the moon was meant to pave the way for future astronaut missions, including a program that will eventually send humans to Mars. That's why NASA officials are stressing the importance of a safe reentry and they got one.

Orion has been on quite the journey, traveling a total of 1.4 million miles. CNN's Kristin Fisher is here with me now.

It's too bad, those crash test dummies or whatever they had in there couldn't --

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: The mannequins.

ACOSTA: Yes, the mannequins couldn't get any SkyMiles for that or air miles for that. That's a long mission, but a remarkable end and this mission continues and perhaps to a tantalizing next step. Tell us -- tell us more.

FISHER: Sure. And you think about all the things that this rocket and this spacecraft have been through. I mean, so many delays. It got hit by a hurricane...

ACOSTA: That's right.

FISHER: ... five days before launch. And so to see it have such a successful mission, and then a successful splashdown today, NASA officials absolutely thrilled by what we are seeing.

And so right now, you're seeing, of course, a replay of the parachutes slowing that spacecraft down to an acceptable speed and hitting the Pacific Ocean.

But now, they've got to actually get this spacecraft out of the Pacific Ocean, and so what they are doing, this is a massive recovery operation. It involves the Navy, Kennedy Space Center teams, and basically you have people on -- you have sailors on boats, Navy sailors that get right up close to this spacecraft.

They are going to do some visual inspections, and then they actually hook some cables on to it, and the USS Portland will literally pull it out of the water. They bring it back to the Navy base in San Diego, and then back to the Kennedy Space Center where they do some more intensive tests.

But big picture here, this is exactly what NASA needed in order to move forward with its Artemis Program. This was the uncrewed test flight. And now, they are going to be able to start thinking about who they're going to put on the crew of Artemis 2, which is going to be circling, orbiting the moon, so to speak. And then Artemis 3, which is going to be when they are going to return American astronauts to the moon for the first time since the Apollo Program.

Some of the images that you're seeing there, that is of the Orion spacecraft as it was making its descent through the Earth's atmosphere, and this was, Jim, one of the most critical tests today. It was testing that heat shield, making sure that it could withstand 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit and protect those future astronauts that may be on board in future missions.

But the other thing that just really stood out to me today, this happened on almost the 50th anniversary of the last time that humans walked on the moon, Gene Cernan and Harrison Schmitt during Apollo 17.

And so there you can see some of the incredible images that the Orion spacecraft is able to capture as it made its close approach to the moon, and now humanity, just one step closer to going back.

ACOSTA: And that will be an amazing day when it finally happens, and that's what today was all about, getting NASA that much closer to that milestone.

And Kristin, I feel good for you that this all worked out, because I remember seeing you when they tried to do the launch, you know, time and again and there were weather delays and everything else. So it's great to see that finally, yes, patience pays off.

FISHER: It is and if you think I'm excited, just imagine what it's like for the NASA astronauts that are waiting for that crew assignment, you know?

ACOSTA: That's right.

FISHER: They've been waiting years with no shuttle. Now, they've got this.

ACOSTA: All right, I can't wait to hear that part, too. All right, Kristin Fisher, thank you very much.

FISHER: Thanks.

ACOSTA: And joining me now is NASA Administrator, Bill Nelson.

Bill, thanks so much for being with us. We appreciate it.

What was the emotion like inside NASA watching the Orion spacecraft return to Earth today? It just looks like everything went flawlessly and everybody must have been just so pleased, 50 years to the day that astronauts last step foot on the moon?

[15:05:07]

BILL NELSON, ADMINISTRATOR, NASA: The emotion was there. It was confident, but it was tense because there were two big things that had to happen today.

First of all, the heat shield had to work, and it worked perfectly; and then the parachutes had to work, and they did perfectly.

And so this was just incredible, because it was coming in hot and fast. It was coming in at 25,000 miles an hour, 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit and it did that twice, as it dipped into the atmosphere, and bled off at speed, and then came back up about 150,000 feet and then dipped in in a steep dive again, to bleed off more speed and then came on in. So everything worked.

ACOSTA: Wow. And as we know, this was not a manned admission, but we know that that's NASA's hope. When do you think we will know about a human crew? Might we get an announcement soon? Would you like to make some news here?

NELSON: As a matter of fact, you're going to hear pretty soon. We are going to encourage the headquarters here down in the Johnson Space Center in Houston, we're going to ask them to go ahead and make their selection. And by the way, I think they already have, but to be prepared to go ahead and announce.

ACOSTA: And so there are some names in mind, perhaps already selected at this point. If I may -- unless you leave it.

NELSON: No, I believe that Flight Operations and the Chief Astronaut, they make the decisions. The Johnson Center Director then confirms those and will let you know.

ACOSTA: All right. Well, thanks for keeping us in suspense there, but that's what NASA does. But you know, this mission gave us some incredible images of space at one point, traveling 40,000 miles per hour beyond the far side of the moon, that's farther than any spacecraft designed to carry humans, if I'm not mistaken, that that has ever flown. It's just staggering to think about, how important was that from just

a scientific standpoint, and the importance of where all of this fits into the overall program?

NELSON: Well, we're going back to the moon, but this time not to just stay there and come back. We're going to go further.

And so this is a spacecraft that can take us there and venture beyond. And so we wanted to test it, and it was 40,000 miles beyond the moon, that was about 270,000 miles from Earth and everything worked perfectly.

And the cameras on this spacecraft brought us just these incredible pictures. And it was commercial cameras off the shelf, and you were seeing these crystal clear pictures. And what was particularly interesting as it came back to Earth today, and the cameras showing the Earth was small, and it kept getting larger and larger. And you realized, you're on a direct trajectory back to our home, and that's planet Earth.

ACOSTA: That's right. And for those who don't understand, help us out here, explain why -- and I think you were alluding to this just a few moments ago, why all of this is a stepping stone to getting humans to Mars. And I suppose some of the confidence that you're taking away from today allows you to think, okay, maybe we can do this in the next couple of decades.

NELSON: Well, we can and we will. And 50 years ago, we went to the moon to prove that and came back. Now, we're going to stay to work, to learn, to invent, to create, to venture out further. We're going to Mars first and then we're going to venture on out into that very, very large universe.

ACOSTA: And I guess before we go, I want to show a few more images taken by Orion before it descended. The other week, I was talking to Neil deGrasse Tyson, who is so much smarter than me on this issue, but we love to talk to him about space, and he was talking about how images like this put into perspective, our place in the universe.

And I wonder what's been going through your mind. Are you thinking, Senator Nelson that the possibilities are endless now, in part because of the success of this mission?

NELSON: Indeed, they are. We have to take it a step at a time because space is hard and it's an unforgiving atmosphere out there and you've got to do it right when humans are concerned.

[15:10:10]

NELSON: And yet the human, to have the discretion to determine what you want to pick up on Mars is a very important fact. And that's why we're going with humans to Mars and then venture further out. And who knows?

What we consider science fiction now, it is going to become science fact. ACOSTA: All right, NASA Administrator, Bill Nelson. Thanks for the

privilege of speaking with you after the successful mission. Congratulations to everybody there and thanks so much for your time.

NELSON: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, good to speak with you.

In the meantime, we are following a major development more than three decades after a bomb took down Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland killing 270 people, including 190 Americans, US officials say they now have the Libyan man who made the bomb in custody.

CNN counterterrorism analyst and former CIA counterterrorism official, Phil Mudd joins us now.

Phil, great to have you with us.

To this day, that 1988 Attack remains the deadliest in UK history. I remember it, you know, back in the 80s when this happened, I was in high school. But it just -- it was seared into the minds of so many people around the world. What's your reaction to this news now?

This is a big, big development.

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I guess, my real reaction, having served for a time as a CIA official at the FBI is pride. I mean, the FBI prides itself in never letting a bone go. This is 34 years ago. Libya fell as a dictatorship a few years ago. So the FBI continues to pursue the case, finds the potential individual who was responsible for the bomb, ensures that the evidence, and I'm sure they did this the Department of Justice, that the evidence is admissible in US Court and brings an individual back to be tried 34 years later.

I guess in some ways, there is a sadness here for the families who lost lives, but in some ways, as someone who served in the US government with the FBI, there's a sense of pride in saying the FBI got their man more than three decades later. Remarkable, Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes. The investigation doesn't stop in cases like this. It just doesn't.

MUDD: Yes.

ACOSTA: It's a testament to the folks over there in Federal law enforcement, and some are calling for more transparency, though in this investigation, asking the DOJ to release all that they know about the attack.

This has been something that has been discussed over the years, as you know. What do you think? Do you agree with that?

MUDD: I do not. Look, there's a lot of complicated issues going on here. For example, how do you deal with the Libyan government who may not want to let a citizen go? How do you deal with informants in Libya, who may feel that their lives are at stake if they speak about the case? How do you deal with us access to documents related to the case?

I think if I look at this, the fundamental question is whether you bring an individual 34 years later home to justice, transparency, to me is important. But if the greater goal is to bring an individual home to justice, I would take that any day of the week, Jim.

Take the individual home. If transparency involves some issues that are a little bit troubling. Let him go.

ACOSTA: Yes, and what lessons ultimately came out of the Lockerbie bombing from a counterterrorism standpoint? I mean, for the younger viewers who are watching at home and don't remember this, this was -- I mean, this was the biggest story of that year.

MUDD: Yes.

ACOSTA: I mean, it was just an incredible remarkable event that occurred.

MUDD: I think there are a few lessons that are hard to understand, but for me as a guy who served at both the CIA and the FBI, and they're not that many of us. There's a few lessons that are really remarkable. The first is cooperation.

The CIA has great access in Libya. I'm going to judge that the FBI has less access. You have to have cooperation among agencies to ensure that when the CIA acquires information, they pass it the FBI.

I'd tell you one thing the FBI was better at in the CIA, I served at both organizations, is number one acquisition of data, of data points over decades. The CIA is not great at that, the FBI is and second is pursuit of a case over 34 years.

CIA, okay; FBI really good. So the information here suggests to me that there's a lot of cooperation among agencies that have different strengths. That's a real lesson here, Jim.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. And former FBI Director Robert Mueller spent decades seeking justice for the victims of this bombing back when he was a US Attorney General and then on forward, as well as the people who worked around him, of course.

How do you think he is feeling today and what does this mean to the Federal law enforcement community that didn't give up this case?

[15:15:09]

MUDD: Jim, I rarely speak about stuff that I saw at a personal level. Director Mueller was not a guy who was really sort of that personal with people who worked next to him.

I saw him as often as four times a day, the best leader I saw in government, but not as soft and fuzzy guy. The number of times I heard him ask about Lockerbie was remarkable. We'd had a lot of stuff going on, al-Qaeda stuff, organized crime stuff, even mortgage fraud stuff, which was big when I was at the FBI. He asked about Lockerbie all the time.

It showed the tenaciousness of a Federal prosecutor, Robert Mueller, who would never let go. He was incredible.

Anybody out there in business or government who wants to understand leadership. Watch Robert Mueller. He never let this one go. Nobody asked, he did. He was relentless, Jim.

ACOSTA: And you have to be in cases like this.

MUDD: Yes.

ACOSTA: And it's led to this point that we're at today.

Phil Mudd, thank you very much.

And on a completely unrelated note, I understand today is your birthday. Happy Birthday, Phil. We always appreciate having you.

MUDD: It is. It is 21st, so I'm going to go out for rager.

ACOSTA: All right, good for you. You deserve it. Thanks, Phil. I appreciate it.

MUDD: You bet.

ACOSTA: Coming up, he was a key player in the negotiations to bring WNBA star, Brittney Griner home in a prisoner swap with Russia. Former Ambassador Bill Richardson joins us live on how the deal went down and the ongoing fight to bring another American home, Paul Whelan, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:20:49]

ACOSTA: Dramatic new video from overseas as Ukraine fights back in a key city held by the Russians since early March. Ukraine launching a missile attack with several explosions reported including at a church occupied by Russian forces. There has been action in other parts of the country as well.

CNN's Sam Kiley is in Ukraine's capital of Kyiv.

Sam, what is the latest?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, the latest is quite a remarkable development out of Luhansk Province, the occupied area of Luhansk Province with photographs showing what the Ukrainians are saying is the recently destroyed headquarters of the Wagner mercenary group. This is the latest, if we can attribute it to the Ukrainians, I think we probably can, latest strike that they've conducted with some precision.

There have been attacks that they carried out in the Donetsk Province and earlier on in Melitopol. Those are the pictures you're looking at there with the burning.

But these are all very significant developments for two reasons. The first is that Wagner Group had been essentially leading the attacks on Bakhmut, that eastern town that has been the focus of Russia's military efforts for the last several weeks really, Jim, firstly.

And then secondly, in Melitopol, this strike against a barracks could be seen potentially as a softening up process, ahead of an anticipated effort by the Ukrainians to open up that Southern front to try to take the pressure off the East, firstly; and secondly, to try to push perhaps, towards the Crimea after their successes elsewhere in the south, notably in Kherson Province.

But these are also signs, I think, Jim that the Ukrainians are getting more confident with their targeting and perhaps some diplomats in the United States have hinted that they are developing their own missile systems or drone systems that can strike with greater accuracy against Russian targets, but hitting what they claim is the Wagner Group's headquarters in Luhansk there, a very significant blow being dealt at what has been, I'll have to say a very difficult time for Ukrainian forces fighting in the east -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, Sam Kiley, thank you very much for that update. We appreciate it.

We are getting a new look now at what WNBA star, Brittney Griner endured in a Russian Penal Colony before the prisoner swap that secured her released. New images show Griner with her haircut short to make her life easier during the Russian winter, as well as the bare room where she slept.

Her attorney there says she was unable to do the sewing work she was assigned due to her large hands, and because the tables were too small to accommodate her.

Joining me now to talk about this as a key player who worked for months to secure Griner's release from Russia, former US Ambassador to the UN and Governor of New Mexico, Bill Richardson.

Great to see you, Governor, as always. Thanks so much for your time.

You know, it's unbelievable to see those images of Griner's life in that Russian penal camp. It just breaks your heart to see what she went through.

Have you received any updates though, about how she has been doing since she got back on US soil? How is she doing?

BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER UN AMBASSADOR: Well, my main contact has been her family who has been terrific. They had a great support team, Cherelle, the wife, the agent.

I also have talked to her father, a Vietnam veteran in Houston, who actually told me that right before Brittney left that the Russians did give her a new space, new bed to deal with some of these issues because she is very tall. But at the same time, I'm understanding that it is going to be a few more days before she gets out.

You know, right now a lot of hostages that come back, they want to reunite first with family. You know, they are not as strong as they should be. They're getting physically a good exam. We have a great operation in San Antonio.

So I think the public and their fans should be, I think very careful about invading their space right now because for a lot of these hostages like Trevor Reed who also went to San Antonio, a hostage we worked to get out about four months ago, and now, Brittney, I think we've got to give them a little space and a little time to readjust because they've had a horrendous experience in these Russian prisons.

[15:25:19]

ACOSTA: Absolutely. I mean, it is totally traumatic, I'm sure.

And Bill, take me back to that moment, when you got to call Griner's father to tell him that his daughter was coming home, that must have been something else.

RICHARDSON: Well, I called him. He is a quiet person. He is not visible. He called me from Houston in the morning, that she was -- and I said -- and I built a relationship with him. I said to him, you're going to have a good day, and I think you've got to make plans to come see her.

And I said, probably, San Antonio, but she first has got to go to a neutral country, an Arab countries. And he says, well, I can't get there. I said, I know, just be patient. And I think they're all reunited now, reconnecting.

So he was ecstatic, because he had been very active and calling me, updates, and I've talked to him. Vietnam veteran. And I remember saying to him, well, you know, Britney is six foot-nine, are you that tall? He says, no, no, I'm six foot two, but her cousins are that tall.

But we built a relationship. This is the human connection that is important in these hostage cases.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. And you handled that so well.

Let me ask you this though. CNN has learned some new information about why the deal to bring home Paul Whelan, another American in Russia, why that deal fell apart. Our reporting is that Russia wanted a former colonel from their spy agency released, but the US could not deliver, because he's serving a life sentence in Germany for murder.

What more can you tell us about that? What can you tell us?

RICHARDSON: Well, all right, Jim, I'm not the official channel. I was pushing both sides as a catalyst to come together. You know, I can't comment on that.

But what I do know is in the past, and why I'm optimistic about Paul Whelan is that the Russians did in the Trump administration, as John Bolton said, did offer a trade for Whelan. Secondly, the fact that the Russians, despite the horrendous relationship, went ahead with Trevor Reed about four months ago, we were involved in that. Now, Brittney.

I think now the possibility -- look, it's going to take a prisoner exchange, a big one, I think, where we're going to have to negotiate again. But I think the Biden administration has done a good job on this Brittney release, the negotiation. But now we've got to get Paul Whelan out.

I feel a little guilty. I started on my own -- with our own contacts with the Russians, separate from the administration, although we coordinate most of the time, although they like to take all the credit, which is fine. I think the President did good.

But I'm optimistic. I was optimistic about Brittney, about Trevor Reed, despite the horrendous relationship that we have with Russia over Ukraine, you can still do these humanitarian initiatives.

So, let's be positive. That's my only message here.

ACOSTA: And is it more manageable to negotiate these kinds of releases when you handle them one at a time? Because, you know, there was a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking here in Washington and people asking on the Republican side, mainly, why couldn't they get both out at the same time? Or one versus the other and so on?

I would imagine it is simpler, less complicated to try to do one at a time. Is that part of this?

RICHARDSON: Well, I thought, Jim that -- and I said it, I think possibly on your show that we get two to two, Whelan and Greiner for Bout and somebody else. But I think in the end, President Putin didn't want to give President Biden a victory, but I think we got a better part of that deal, but I think at the end that broke down because of the geopolitical relationship that isn't good.

Because I think the politics, I mean, for President Putin getting Bout out, it is good politics for him and he knows that with us, you know, Brittney Griner is an icon. Paul Whelan, a Marine veteran, somebody that has been unjustly imprisoned for four years. I mean, I feel guilty that we -- and we've tried for four years to try to get him out, we, my organization, and I think everybody has.

The President and his team did try to get him out. They threw out a bunch of formulas, I know that. I don't want to discuss it now, but I'm optimistic.

[15:30:07]

RICHARDSON: Maybe not -- I said at the end of the year, we would get both Griner and Whelan, I think it may take just a little bit longer, but it's doable.

And the President has a good team working on this. It's at the National Security Council, a guy named John Finer, who is very good. I'll probably ruined his reputation by saying this, but they've got a good team, and I have been working with them, but they don't tell me what to do and I go on my own.

We work for the families -- the families of the hostages like Griner's dad, like Trevor Reed's family, and we've got prisoners in Iran. We've got more prisoners, hostages in Venezuela. We've got about 60 around the world, and we've got to get them back -- all of them, and it takes a price, sometimes the price is bad people like Viktor Bout and others.

ACOSTA: All right, well, it is great to see Brittney Griner back on American soil. And I know you'll continue to work on Paul Whelan and you'll keep us updated on how that goes.

Former Governor and Ambassador Bill Richardson, great to see you as always. And congratulations if that's the way to put it in all of this in your work in getting these hostages out. It's greatly appreciated I know, by the families. Thank you so much.

RICHARDSON: Thank you, Jim. All the best.

ACOSTA: Good to see you. You, too.

Coming up: The January 6 Committee meets on criminal referrals to release along with their final report and it is not just the former President who could be targeted. More on that in a moment, you're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:36:02]

ACOSTA: A critical decision is looming for the House Select Committee investigating the January 6th insurrection. They are meeting today on whether to make criminal referrals to the Justice Department.

Sources tell CNN, the Committee is weighing referrals for former President Donald Trump and some of his close allies including his former White House Chief of Staff, Mark Meadows, Attorney John Eastman, former Department of Justice official Jeffrey Clark, and Trump's former attorney, Rudy Giuliani.

CNN's Zachary Cohen joins us now.

Do we know when to expect an announcement? It's not going to be right away.

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Jim. They are trying to wait and hold this announcement until they release their final report on December 21st. That's been the date that Chairman Thompson has said that they want to really put out all the information at one time.

But we are getting little dribs and drabs of information as the process plays out. Like you said, they are meeting this afternoon. They're talking about the issue of criminal referrals and really the issue of who and for what crimes, right?

We know that they are going to put out criminal referrals, issue criminal referrals, ask the Justice Department to pursue prosecution against some people, we just don't know who and for what.

Now, sources are telling me, Annie Grayer; my colleague, Pam Brown that there are -- there is this universe of people they are looking at, right, and the four names that have emerged that are among the names, Jeffrey Clark, John Eastman, Rudy Giuliani and Mark Meadows. So that gives you a window into the kind of people the Committee is looking at in terms of criminal referrals, but we are going to wait and see until the final report comes out who exactly they move forward with.

ACOSTA: And what about these referrals? I mean, they are obviously not legally binding, and that they don't actually lead to prosecutions. That's up to the Justice Department. But I suppose symbolically, it would be the Congress saying and a Bipartisan Commission saying or Committee saying that they believe crimes were committed.

COHEN: Yes, Jim. That's been the big question. Like, what's the point? Right? I mean, they've been trying to wrestle with this issue for a long time. We know the issue of criminal referrals has been sort of looming over the Committee for a while now.

And actually, Adam Schiff was on CBS today and really explained it well. Take a listen to what he said about why the Committee thinks it's important to issue referrals.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): I think they will make use of the evidence that we previously presented in our report to further their investigations. And I think it makes an important statement, not a political one, but a statement about the evidence of an attack on the institutions for democracy and the peaceful transfer of power, that Congress examining an attack on itself is willing to report criminality.

So I think it's an important decision in his own right, if we go forward with it, and one that the department ought to give due consideration to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: So, Chairman Thompson would describe this as kind of an evolving view of the Committee, right? They didn't set out to make criminal recommendations to the Judge. They know that's the Justice Department's job.

But at the end of the day, they looked at all the evidence they collected and they knew they had to do it. They knew they had to, at least for the record, say look, we thought crimes were committed and we think this is who committed them. ACOSTA: Put it in the historic record so generations from now, they

can look back and see: This is what Congress came up with when they investigated it.

All right, Zachary Cohen, thank you very much.

Coming up: Why music icon Patti LaBelle was suddenly rushed off stage mid performance.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:43:17]

ACOSTA: It's a frightening scene at Milwaukee's Riverside Theatre. Take a look at this: Legendary singer, Patti LaBelle was on stage last night when the venue received a bomb threat. Watch what happened next.

[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

ACOSTA: You can see Patti LaBelle being rushed off stage by security in the middle of her show. It happened suddenly, so quickly. The flowers she was holding fell to the ground. Everyone in the audience was safely evacuated moments later.

Milwaukee Police say no explosive devices were found and the investigation is ongoing.

Tonight, on a brand new episode of "This is Life," Lisa Ling heads to her hometown of Los Angeles to explore two very serious issues and how they intersect -- mental illness and homelessness. Here's preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA LING, CNN HOST, "THIS IS LIFE" (voice over): Deputy Matson (ph) gets to work.

DEPUTY MATSON: We've been calling all last week and it's all been no, no, no, no, no. So we got tired of the no's.

LING (on camera): Taylor has agreed to leave the encampment, but there is so much complexity involved. They can't get a bed for him in Orange County where he is from until they get his insurance switched over.

So they have found a motel room for him until he could go into a detox facility, but this is the kind of thing that the Sheriff's Deputies are dealing with.

This is what it takes when you're trying to get one person off the streets.

What kinds of services are going to be available to him when he leaves here?

DEPUTY MATSON: So once he is at the program, they're able to assist him with his needs, his mental health and is drug issues. LING: What compelled you to decide today was the day that you want

to leave?

[15:45:04]

TAYLOR: You know, my dad has been trying really hard to get me help and I don't want him helping me, so...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Wow. The host of "This is Life," Lisa Ling is with us now.

Lisa, incredible stuff that you're just showing us there and this is such a huge problem in cities across the country. We have this problem here in Washington, DC, as you know. How did we end up in a situation where so many mentally ill people are living on the streets now instead of getting help?

LING: It's so true, Jim. There is a severe mental health crisis playing out all over this country, as you just said, and to answer that I have to give you a brief history.

So, a hundred years ago, when people were deemed to be mentally disturbed, they were sent to psychiatric institutions that at one time, were these places of refuge, and they were fully staffed and some of them were even quite bucolic.

They were safe environments and if they stayed continuing -- they continued to be like that for a while. But then decades later, they have just become these asylums, and doctors were experimenting with questionable practices, and the quality of care just went way downhill.

So in 1963, President Kennedy pledged to de-institutionalize people and promised Federal funds to build community mental health centers. But after he was assassinated, progress just completely stopped.

Years later, when Ronald Reagan became Governor of California, California became the first State to move forward on de- institutionalization, but it didn't fund any local mental health centers. So all of those people who were released had no place to go, and this was repeated throughout the country.

And so decades later, like so many things, as you saw in the clip just now, it has been left to law enforcement to deal with this problem in so many cities.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, we have here in Washington, you can see tents, I mean, just a couple of blocks from the White House in some cases. It is just so sad. And in New York, the Mayor there, Eric Adams recently announced a plan to involuntarily hospitalize homeless people who appear to be mentally ill, or incapable of caring for themselves.

Do you think that will help? What do you make of that?

LING: Well, look, Mayor Adams is under a tremendous amount of pressure. There have been some high profile incidents in New York where someone who was mentally ill attacked people on the subway and out on the streets.

The likelihood of someone being attacked by someone who was mentally ill is actually quite low. It is more likely for people who are mentally ill to be attacked themselves, and the issue that I have with Mayor Adams' plan is that to involuntarily take someone and put them in a hospital, they can only be there for two weeks max in most cases. There aren't long-term facilities for people to go.

And so these people, they might be able to get on some kind of regimen over the course of those two weeks, but then, again, there is nowhere to go. So, they are released back to the streets and the cycle just continues to perpetuate itself.

ACOSTA: It really does. I'm glad you're exploring this issue. It's so important. Lisa Ling, thank you so much. Great to see you as always.

And be sure to tune in "This is Life" with Lisa Ling, it airs tonight at 10:00 right here on CNN, a very important topic.

We'll be right back.

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[15:52:52]

ACOSTA: Residents and visitors to Hawaii may not be able to witness the spectacular displays from the Mauna Loa volcano much longer. According to the US Geological Survey, the massive eruption from the world's largest active volcano are unlikely to resume, but lower level eruptions may carry on for a little while longer.

Scientists will continue to watch for activity from the volcano and the possibility of volcanic ash emissions.

A California startup has found a way to harness massive amounts of power from the sun and save it up for a rainy day.

CNN's John Sarlin has more in this week's "Mission Ahead."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JON SARLIN, CNN DIGITAL PRODUCER (voice over): In California's Mojave Desert, renewable energy company, Heliogen is working to harness concentrated sunlight for more than just powering your home.

Using artificial intelligence, these mirrors can produce the extremely high temperatures needed to make things like concrete, steel, and green hydrogen.

SARLIN (on camera): So behind you are these mirrors reflecting light. Tell me, what are they doing?

BILL GROSS, FOUNDER AND CEO, HELIOGEN: We're taking a field of mirrors, each one of them being moved precisely by computer algorithms to reflect the sunlight to a single spot up on the tower behind us. At that single spot, we are achieving temperatures that are almost a third the temperature of the surface of the sun.

SARLIN (voice over): It's the algorithm that separates Heliogen from other concentrated solar power ventures.

Heliogen doesn't need complex mirrors. Instead, they use cameras and computing power to align their mirrors to reflect sunlight onto a refinery tower, and all of that heat is directed and stored in big thermos light containers.

GROSS: So the energy continues after the sun goes down or even on cloudy days. Because we have continuous electricity, we can make hydrogen.

So hydrogen is a miracle substance, it is the most common elements on Earth.

SARLIN (voice over): Ironically, most hydrogen is made using fossil fuels, which has limited its production. What Heliogen is doing is making the process of creating a clean fuel clean.

SARLIN (on camera): So the question though is, if we can do it, we can do it in the lab. But can we do it on scale?

GROSS: We are doing it at scale. That's what you're looking at here.

SARLIN: At scale.

GROSS: At scale. This is a scale technology. The sun is a resource that no one owns. It gives us 10,000 times more energy than the whole humanity needs and it is available everybody so the innovation can happen everywhere.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[15:55:13]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

Today a major development in a worldwide investigation that has never stopped over the last 34 years, I'm talking about the Lockerbie bombing that took down Pan Am Flight 103 and killed 270 people, most of them Americans.

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