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U.S. Finalizes Sending Missiles to Ukraine; Cedric Leighton is Interviewed about Patriot Missiles going to Ukraine; DHS Deploys More Agents to El Paso; Wahl's Cause of Death Revealed. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired December 14, 2022 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:32:56]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, this story first on CNN. The patriot missile defense system could soon be on its way from the U.S. to Ukraine. The U.S. is working out plans ahead of final approval from the secretary of defense.

This news comes along with photo evidence of Ukraine's latest defense effort against Russian missiles. Officials say they have downed 13 drones out of two waves of attacks on the capital Kyiv. This part of a -- really just a worsening Russian air and missile war over Ukraine.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, and also really a reminder of why Ukraine has been asking for those patriot missiles for months.

CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr joins us now.

So, Barbara, what's different this time?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's what you guys are talking about right there, the Russian missile war. In recent weeks, months, Russia intensifying its bombardment of Ukraine population centers, energy facilities, infrastructure. The U.S. had not really been anxious to give such an advanced system to Ukraine, but now seeing what is happening, they are stepping in. All indications are the Pentagon finalizing the plans, sending it over to the White House, to get President Biden's final signature on it.

What would happen then is the patriot would be shipped to Ukraine, but it's maybe not so easy because first you have to train any number of Ukraine troops to work on this system, how to operate it, maintain it, spare parts, logistics, repairs, all of that. It is a complex system. But the advantage it brings to the battlefield for Ukraine would be significant. This is a system where its radar essentially locks on to an enemy missile, in this case a Russian missile, and then engages it. And the patriot missiles fire off and if there's - if successful, bring down the Russian missile at altitudes and distance far from their targets in Ukraine. So, it begins to provide that air defense shield, along with other systems already on the battlefield, already on the front line to provide that shield against these incoming Russian missiles.

[09:35:03]

Final signature still awaited, but the indications are the Biden administration is, in fact, moving towards doing this.

SCIUTTO: Another great story from the great Barbara Starr at the Pentagon.

Thank you, Barbara.

STARR: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Joining me now to discuss, CNN military analyst, Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Colonel, good to have you on this morning.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): Goods to be with you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, first of all, I wonder if you can compare the patriot missile system to the air defense systems that Ukraine is already relying on, particularly old Soviet made ones, but ones that have been supplied to them by NATO partners in recent months. Is this a major upgrade in terms of technology?

LEIGHTON: Yes, it is. Well, one of the things, Jim, is that it uses a - what's called a phased array radar. So what that means is the patriot system can actually hone in on a target using multiple beams without changing the antenna configuration, that they don't have to move the antennas, they don't have to do anything like that. A lot of the systems that the Ukrainians have right now, whether they're the old Soviet era systems or newer systems from NATO countries, they are basically designed in some cases at least to be less reliant on technology and more physically reliant. So, what that would mean is that those systems would require the physical movement of antennas. They could then determine where the missiles are. So, it's a much more complex undertaking than the Ukrainians have right now. The patriot system will overcome that if it's deployed to Ukraine.

SCIUTTO: Yes, a lot of countries depend on it. There are countries in the Middle East, for instance, U.S. partners against - as a defense against Iranian missiles.

I wonder, this is a massive and expanding Russian air and missile assault on Ukraine, and particularly the targets in recent weeks have been on infrastructure that impact the lives of civilians. That's deliberate here.

How many of these systems, given that this is the largest country in Europe, does Ukraine need to make a dent in Russia's air war?

LEIGHTON: That's a really interesting question. Generally, what you want to do, Jim, is if you deploy the patriot system, you want to deploy it to the areas that you want to defend most. So, it would be logical for the Ukrainians to deploy it around Kyiv, for example, and around cities like Dnipro and the newly - perhaps the newly liberated Kherson, certainly around Kharkiv, any of the areas where they want to protect their infrastructure, which, you know, generally speaking could mean the entire country in the ideal way.

A lot of people compare the patriot system to the iron dome system that the Israelis have. The Iron Dome is based in - or on patriot technology but Israel has a -- much less of a surface area to worry about than Ukraine does. Ukraine's about the size of Texas. And it's really impossible to defend the whole country. So, you want to pick the targets that you want to protect and you want to make sure that you protect air bases, that you protect government installations and population centers. So that would be where they would deploy them. How many? You know, you're probably looking at somewhere between - you know, if I were doing this, around five to ten batteries of that type. That would be a pretty big order. And that would be, you know, somewhere around a $10 billion commitment if it - if we went to, you know, maximize with the patriot deployment (INAUDIBLE).

SCIUTTO: As you know better than me, war is about adjustments. Each side adjusts to the other side as they change tactics and weapons and so on. And one adjustment Russia has made is to bring in these Iranian made and supplied drones. Is -- and they've had devastating effect on civilian targets and infrastructure in Ukraine.

Would the patriot system be effective against those drones?

LEIGHTON: Yes, I -- generally speaking, it would. Of course it depends on the specific type of patriot system that would -- there are different models, but the system is capable of downing drones. It has been used by the Israelis to down Hamas based drones. It has been used in other conflicts like the conflicts with the Houthis in Yemen, between Saudi Arabia and the Houthis. So, it can be used for that purpose.

And, of course, the Houthis have used Ukrainian drones as well. So, there is some operational significance here and some operational history with these types of weapons. And it can be used in that way.

SCIUTTO: Cedric Leighton, thanks so much for breaking it down.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Jim, any time.

HILL: Still ahead here, a Democratic congressman says the administration should absolutely see the situation at the border firsthand. A situation which is expected to grow. So, how is the administration planning to stem what could be a surge at the border later this month?

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[09:44:31]

HILL: This morning, the Biden administration sending additional Border Patrol agents to El Paso amid what they call a major surge in illegal crossings.

SCIUTTO: This video shows a big influx of migrants. This at a crossing in Texas. The Department of Homeland Security says more than 2,400 people crossed into the U.S. every day this past weekend. That number is expected to grow by the end of the month.

CNN White House reporter Priscilla Alvarez is covering this story, has been for some time.

[09:45:01]

So, Priscilla, it's already a big influx, right, and now you have the upcoming expiration of Title 42, which has largely barred asylum seekers under pandemic rules. What's the administration going to do about that?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: The administration has to do a key thing here, which is shore up enough resources to meet the number of people who are coming. So they have to do that in a couple of ways. Preparing temporary facilities to process people. Shoring up ground and air transportation to move bodies, either to lateral points along the border or back to their origin country or increase referrals of prosecution. So, all of those things are in motion.

And we should note here, Jim, that the reason this is ending is because of a lower court order that said the administration could no longer use this authority. Now, of course, the White House is under increasing pressure about what is going to happen in the next few days and weeks. And we have been told that lawmakers have been calling administration officials on a more frequent basis. Sources also told us about a call between Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and President Biden's chief of staff, Ron Kline, where those concerns were also shared.

And it really kind of captures this really complex, political moment for this administration as it begins to see the beginnings of the challenge that they're going to face here with El Paso.

SCIUTTO: No question. But, I mean, can they increase resources sufficiently and quickly enough to deal with those numbers, right, because this requires a lot of facilities, a lot more judges, right, I mean, doesn't it, to adjudicate each of these cases?

ALVAREZ: And a lot more money, which is what they're asking for too.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

ALVAREZ: Every Homeland Security official I speak with will walk you through the resources they need and then they'll always say they need congressional action.

SCIUTTO: Right. This is the thing.

ALVAREZ: It is that that they need to update and statues to create a more fair system.

SCIUTTO: There's no interest in that. That's a good point.

Priscilla Alvarez, thanks so much. HILL: Still to come here, no CPR or shocks would have saved him.

That's the heartbreaking news from Dr. Celine Gounder, the wife of renowned journalist and writer Grant Wahl, who died suddenly last week while covering the World Cup. More of what the family is sharing, next.

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[09:51:27]

SCIUTTO: The U.S. Postal Service is now honoring the late civil rights icon and leader, Congressman John Lewis, with his own postage stamp. And there it is. It will be available next year. It features a picture of the long-serving congressman taken for a 2013 issue of "Time" magazine.

HILL: Lewis, of course, made history so many times through his life. He was a keynote speaker at the historic March on Washington in 1963. That event included Martin Luther King Jr.'s iconic "I Have a Dream" speech. And Lewis was a remarkable force of his own right through his lifetime. He died in 2020 after a battle with pancreatic cancer.

SCIUTTO: Another story we're following. We're learning more about the death of the sports journalist Grant Wahl. The 49-year-old's sudden passing in Qatar while covering the World Cup shocked the sports world. Now his widow, Celine Gounder, is speaking out with more details, she's a doctor herself, sharing this about her late husband in just the last hour.

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DR. CELINE GOUNDER, WIFE OF GRANT WAHL: He told me he has seen what had happen at the stadium, that Grant had collapsed. That they had tried to do CPR for some 20 minutes, and then took him off to the hospital. And two of his other colleagues were following in a car behind the ambulance. And that's what I knew at that point.

And so then I started to try to track down somebody at the hospital to tell me what had happened. I kept on asking, did he have a pulse when -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You were asking doctor questions because -

GOUNDER: Well, I knew that was a sign. If he had a pulse when he left the stadium, that would have been a good sign. But no one would answer the question.

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HILL: And that certainly tells you a lot when they won't answer the question.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HILL: CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joining us now with more. So, Sanjay, as I was watching that interview with Dr. Gounder, she

told Gayle King that her husband had died an aortic aneurysm. She said no amount of CPR or shocks would have saved him.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.

HILL: And she also said she thought maybe this had been brewing for some time. Can you explain to us what this is?

GUPTA: Yes, and this is a -- it's a rare situation, but as Celine Gounder was sort of describing, pretty catastrophic if it happens. I think a couple of images here and, you know, this is obviously hard to talk about in the context of this person who everyone knew and loved who has just died, but if you look at - this is an image of the heart. Sort of in the middle of - on the left, the bright red area, that's the aorta, the major blood vessel that comes off the heart and supplies blood to the whole body. Sometimes that blood vessel there can become weakened and sort of become more balloon-like as the walls become weakened, and you can see that sort of in the image on the right.

And, again, what I'm describing here is rare. I just want to emphasize that again. But if it does become a balloon-like sort of structure as you see on the right, the wall is weakened and it can rupturing, meaning blood, well, just coming out of the heart can now, you know, bleed into the chest cavity and cause the symptoms and then subsequently the death of someone like Grant Wahl. Sometimes the blood might dissect into the walls of the blood vessel. But whatever the reason, it's a catastrophic problem. Very hard to treat. Very hard to even know somebody has that sort of problem, but that seems to be what Dr. Gounder was describing.

SCIUTTO: Now, Wahl, in advance of this, he shared on social media that he was burning the candle at both ends, in effect.

GUPTA: Yes.

SCIUTTO: He wasn't sleeping much. You know, he's feeling - he was not feeling great. He thought he might have Covid or the flu, et cetera. I mean is there anything people can do in terms of prevention, just in general, but also signs to watch for a condition like this?

[09:55:05]

GUPTA: It's a great question, Jim, and -- but it's very hard to sort of screen for this sort of problem. It's not to say that prevent doesn't have a significant role in some of the other things you described. Obviously, a respiratory infection, things like that.

But this was probably something that had been there for some time, but not causing really much in the way of symptoms. He had - he thought he had bronchitis.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GUPTA: It could be that that - as that aneurysm starts to expand, it could be pushing on his trachea, on his lungs, and causing these symptoms. People can have all sorts of different symptoms, back pain, cough could be one of the symptoms associated with this.

SCIUTTO: Wow.

GUPTA: Again, I just want to emphasize again, this is rare, so I don't want to unnecessarily frighten people, but you can see how challenging it might be to know whether or not you're dealing with this.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

GUPTA: About 20 percent of the time there is some family history, but even then there's not a recommendation that people go out and immediately get screeched for this sort of thing with imaging tests or something like that.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes, you look at that list of symptoms and, goodness, you know, it's - there's so many things you could imagine that might - that might cause that.

Well, he was certainly too young.

GUPTA: I know.

SCIUTTO: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much for walking us through it.

GUPTA: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Still ahead, soon survivors from the Colorado Club Q shooting are going to testify on Capitol Hill on how a surge of anti-LGBTQ Plus rhetoric has fueled a rise in violence targeting them, such as this deadly shooting. We're going to hear from some of those survivors, next.

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