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Officials Scramble to Address Migrant Surge as Trump-Era Ban Expires; U.S. Lawmakers Introduce Bill to Ban TikTok; Report Shows Maternal and Infant Deaths Higher in States Restricting Abortion. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 14, 2022 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: You've been covering this border for years and you've been covering these surges for year. So, here comes another one. I wonder, what preparations do you see being made there and are they sufficient, or even close to sufficient to meet these numbers?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, really, it's going to end up depending on just exactly how many people start arriving at these border locations if Title 42 is lifted next week. But we're starting to get a sense of what that could look like.

If you see there in the distance behind me, that is the border fence, just on the other side is the Rio Grande and into Ciudad Juarez on the Mexico side. And it's just there were essentially it has been a gathering spot where hundreds, if not thousands of migrants over the last few days have gathered.

In fact, we have seen that here this morning as border patrol agents have been escorting long lines of migrants who have arrived here in the early morning and overnight hours, and they are being walked over to a processing center, where some of them will be sent back across into Mexico because of Title 42. Others might receive paperwork and an immigration court date.

But all of this continues to happen as this city in particular braces for the possibility lifting of Title 42 next week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (voice over): Sun fades away over El Paso, a large group of migrants stand on the borders' edge waiting to be processed by Border Patrol agents, while a few others tiptoe across a short path through the Rio Grande. These migrants are part of a major surge of border crossings seen in El Paso in recent days, and it's happening as the projected end of a Trump-era COVID restriction draws closer, ending the policy to swiftly expel migrants at U.S. land borders.

U.S. border authorities interacted with more than 2 million migrants in the last year up from the previous year. But in recent days, an average of almost 2,500 migrants a day have been moving across this border between Mexico and the U.S. through El Paso.

CLAUDIA RODRIGUEZ, EL PASO CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: Title 42 is only going to make that situation worse where they're going to have more apprehension. And so we're going to see a lot more released into the community and we're not prepared for it.

LAVANDERA: Just three weeks ago, according to Customs and Border Protection, the seven-day rolling average was fewer than 1,700. Thousands of migrants are now coming from Central and South America as well as Cuba, according to U.S. immigration officials.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm helping them get food and whatever they need. This is not even about politics, it's about humanity. These people are here and they're cold.

LAVANDERA: Some have been camping out across the border in Ciudad Juarez, in Mexico, raising concerns they will cross en masse if Trump- era border restrictions end in about a week. Still, others have already been boarded on to buses to be processed or turned around under the provisions of Title 42.

JAKE SULLIVAN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We are taking steps to be able to manage the expiration of Title 42 and to put in place a process that will be orderly and humane. And we believe that in doing so, we can protect our national security concerns.

LAVANDERA: For now, the immediate problem is housing and managing a large influx of migrants.

RUBEN GARCIA, DIRECTOR, ANNUNCIATION HOUSE: If the court cases get resolved and the courts allow Title 42 to be lifted, we're going to see thousands of refugees for whom there isn't shelter.

LAVANDERA: The director of a local El Paso shelter says Border Patrol recently dropped a busload of migrants at his doorstep and he's worried he'll have to soon have to turn people away.

JOHN MARTIN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, OPPORTUNITY CENTER FOR THE HOMELESS: We're going to have to say no, not because we want to, but simply because we don't have space. The reality is there's just too many people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (on camera): Jim and Erica, the Department of Homeland Security says it is sending more agents here to the El Paso area to handle the surge that they have seen in the last few days, which actually has very little to do with Title 42. But also they're sending in a personnel to help the processing of all of these migrants, because a lot of times they just cross the river here into El Paso and they literally just stand on the other side of that border wall waiting for -- they turn themselves into Border Patrol agents and then they begin the process of awaiting just to be processed. But here the processing centers are overcapacity and backed up, so it does take a considerable amount of time. Jim and Erica? HILL: It's something that has to be dealt with at some point. Congress has not been able to come together to even really start those conversations. It's so important to have you there. We appreciate it. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Well, there is a new push for Congress for something, that is to ban TikTok from operating here in the U.S. Several individual states are also now cracking down on the app. What is behind their concerns, what should you be concerned about? We're going to take a look, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:35:00]

SCIUTTO: Right now, lawmakers are taking significant steps to restrict or even stop the use of the popular social media app TikTok here in the U.S. On Capitol Hill, a trio of lawmakers introduced new legislation that aims to ban the short-form video app from operating anywhere in the U.S. This comes as at least seven individual states, most recently Iowa and Alabama, have already banned the app from being used on state devices.

Joining me now to discuss is Samm Sacks. She is a cyber policy fellow at New America, with the focus on China, as well as a senior fellow at the Pol Sci China Center at Yale's Law School. Samm, good to have you on?

[10:40:00]

SAMM SACKS, CYBERSECURITY POLICY AND CHINA DIGITAL ECONOMY FELLOW, NEW AMERICA: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: So, you wrote back in 2020 that banning TikTok was, quote, a terrible idea. Tell us why.

SACKS: Well, there are legitimate national security questions around who has access to the data on the platform, particularly in places like China, what does it mean that the algorithm can push or hide certain content given the user base. The question is, what do we do about these concerns, how do we actually create a more safe and secure and open internet in the U.S. for users.

And so I wrote that banning it actually wouldn't make the data more secure nor would it protect us from disinformation. So, the question is how do we solve these problems.

SCIUTTO: So, I mean, that is the question. I've been told by folks in Intel for years, don't touch TikTok. One, they will make the point that there are no firewalls between Chinese, quote/unquote, private companies and the government. We've seen that history with Huawei, et cetera. And they worry that TikTok gathers information, data, facial recognition data included. So, how could folks alleviate those security concerns without banning it, protect it?

SACKS: So, my understanding is that the federal government has been engaged with TikTok for a pretty extensive national security process that would really mitigate a lot of those concerns. Based on my experience of how these things work, the plan would potentially look at who has access to the data. It would put in place a really robust process so the U.S. government could understand who has access to it. Oracle would be vetting and verifying the source code, the algorithm, the governance structure.

So, we have a potential solution on the table. The question is, could politics or protectionism derail what, in my view, could make TikTok more secure than most other social media platforms in the U.S. that wouldn't be subject to those robust oversights.

SCIUTTO: Well, let me ask you this, because China has a history for years of hacking data left and right. And they've been involved in some of the most catastrophic hacks, you think of like Anthem, that's health insurance, Marriott Hotels, that's information about people's travel, the Office of Personnel Management for government folks. So, why would we expect, even if you do come to an agreement on protections like this, that China would follow those rules?

SACKS: Look, the reality is Americans' data is shockingly exposed. And this actually is a far bigger issue than China and sophisticated state actors. Equifax, for example, OPM, the security problems and the fact that they retain such sensitive data without the security made it very exposed to sophisticated state hackers.

And so I think rather that focus on the country of origin, we should focus on how do we actually protect the data in a way that actually is so much bigger than China. Look, even if TikTok is banned, Americans' data can still be sold to the Chinese government by other social media platforms in an open commercial market of data brokers that is completely unregulated right now.

SCIUTTO: Yes. You mentioned some other ones there, Equifax, et cetera. Samm Sacks, good to have you on. Certainly something I'm sure we're going to keep talking about.

SACKS: Thanks so much.

HILL: Alarming new numbers on infant and maternal mortality in this country, especially in states that restrict abortion access. We'll take a closer look at what researchers found, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:45:00]

HILL: Some sad news to pass along this morning. CNN has just confirmed Steven tWitch Boss, the longtime D.J on the Ellen DeGeneres Show has died. He was just 40 years old. tWitch, as he was known, got his start as a finalist at So You Think You Can Dance who is married to a fellow start from that show, Allison Holker. The couple have three children.

SCIUTTO: Goodness, just the saddest news. Well, a medical story we're following this morning, a new report finds that maternal and infant death rates are dramatically higher in states that ban or restrict abortion. The report also finds that the rate of women dying in pregnancy, childbirth or post partum increased twice as fast in those same states.

HILL: CNN Health Reporter Jacqueline Howard joining us with more now. Jacqueline, these numbers, I was -- as our team can attest to, I was really just struck by them this morning. They're so disturbing. But what also struck me is that these are not numbers from the past few months since we're always overturned, so I imagine there is also concern that the state-by-date disparity could now grow even more.

JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: That's right, Erica. What this report tells us is that maternal and infant death rates in states currently restricting abortion access were already high. Like you said, the death rates in this report are from recent years, 2018 through 2022.

And what the researchers did, I'll walk you through it, they looked at states currently restricting abortion access, that's one group, and compared death rates in those states with those that currently still preserve abortion access, that's another group.

Two findings stood out in this report. Number one, the researchers found maternal death rates among states were 62 percent higher in the states with abortion restrictions compared with the states that provide currently still access to abortions.

[10:50:01]

Another interesting finding, number two, the researchers found that perinatal deaths, so these are fetal and infant deaths in the first week of life, were 15 percent higher in abortion restriction states.

So, the concern here, Erica, like you said, now that we're in a post- Roe America, the concern is that those death rates could get even worse. That's because some providers might be hesitant to practice in states with these restrictions. That would then limit the number of providers available to women expecting and to their babies. If you don't have that access to that care, that can increase the risk of maternal and infant mortality. Erica and Jim?

SCIUTTO: Goodness. That data is truly shocking. Jacqueline Howard, thanks so much.

HILL: Today marks ten years since 20 first graders and 6 educators were murder in a mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Tonight, CNN has a look at what has changed in the past decade and the works that will be done. A preview of that special report is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:55:00] SCIUTTO: Our nation is missing a piece of its soul. Those were emotional words from President Biden just this morning, as, if you can believe it, we're marking ten years, a decade, since the Sandy Hook School massacre of all those little kids. The president proclaimed December 14th a day of remembrance for the 20 first graders and 6 teachers who lost their lives in that shooting.

HILL: Alisyn Camerota spoke with survivors of that horrific day, families who lost loved ones. And here's a preview now of her special report. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): It's been ten years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's a shooting inside our school. I literally dropped to the ground.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought, oh, gosh, this isn't good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was just running into our family van and just flying.

CAMEROTA: Since a lone gunman entered sandy hook and killed 20 children and 6 adults.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was just so horrific what we heard, my colleagues, children begging for their lives, the entire time thinking that we're going to be next.

CAMEROTA: And a stunned nation was left grieving.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): I was sure that Sandy Hook would change everything. How could you watch that and not decide to do something about it?

CAMEROTA: Tonight --

ALEX JONES, HOST, INFOWARS: Don't ever think this couldn't be staged.

CAMEROTA: -- we take you inside the victim's battle against harassment and disinformation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was the hardest thing I've had to do since my son's murder.

CAMEROTA: Their fight for change --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did a kid have his hands on an AR-15 semiautomatic assault rifle with a high-capacity magazine?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have really hurt a generation of kids by not being able to find ways forward.

CAMEROTA: -- and their vow to stop similar tragedies. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the way that I've chosen to honor Daniel, to prevent other families from having to endure a life of pain due to preventable violence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: It is such an important look. Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy, who is, of course, was elected not long before this tragedy, speaking right now about that event. We'll want to show you some of those words that he just shared. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MURPHY: So, my sorrow today is for what we loss ten years ago, today, for the genius and talent that was extinguished from this Earth, those kids and those educators, those teachers. But also my sorrow today is for the fact that it took Sandy Hook to wake this country up to what had happening in front of us every single day.

And to really understand the gravity of Sandy Hook, you can't just think about those kids, right? That's the worst part of this, by leaps and bounds, but there are survivors. There are children who witnessed those shootings. There are family members that experienced deep trauma. There are first responders who will never be the same after having to sort through that carnage. And Sandy Hook is a window into the particular grief it comes with losing someone to gun violence, especially someone young, but also the broad sweepings trauma that comes with a shooting of 20 or 1.

And that's the important to understand today as well, that our love needs to go to those families, first and foremost, but also to the entire community of Newtown, but so must it go to the broader experience of gun violence.

I live in Hartford, Connecticut. I live in the south end of Hartford, a neighborhood adjacent to the south end of Hartford. I hear every night the sirens of police cars and ambulances wheezing by my house. I went to a middle school, to actually a K-8 school. I met with middle schoolers at this school just down the street from my home a few weeks ago just to kind of talk with these kids about what they wanted to change about the neighborhood that we live in.

You know what they wanted to talk to me about? They wanted to me about their walk to and from school. They wanted to talk to me about how dangerous it is for them to walk from their house to the school that they go to, and how every single day they are experiencing a trauma that many people that grow up in the suburbs or rural areas of this country will never experience once in their life, these kids experience every single day.

[11:00:00]

That's the story --

(END VIDEOTAPE) HILL: Senator Chris Murphy again speaking there moments ago, he has talked repeatedly about how Sandy Hook changed him forever, not just as a politician.