Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

White House Condemns Russian Strikes On Ukraine's Civilian Infrastructure; King Charles At Community Center As U.K. Reacts To Harry & Meghan Doc; Schumer, Pelosi Give First Joint Interview Ahead Of New Congress. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 16, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: It's going to help communities plan future flow conditions and it's going to improve flood forecasts. So if you look at before and after SWOT, researchers on the ground have really only had reliable measurements for about a thousand lakes around the world. After SWOT, once this satellite is up and running, that's going to push the number well into the millions. So you can see what a huge increase in sort of eyes on the impacts of climate change that this is going to have for the researchers that monitor this. Bianna? Victor?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: All right. The SWOT satellite and I'd be into acronyms too if the alternative was to say surface water and ocean graphic ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know.

BLACKWELL: What is it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had to write it down, because I kept getting it wrong.

BLACKWELL: What is it again, topography? I can't even get it out once.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: It's SWOT.

BLACKWELL: All right. It's SWOT.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's Surface Water and Ocean Topography spacecraft, there you go.

BLACKWELL: All right. Kristin Fisher, thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Thanks, Kristin.

It is the top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. Hello, everyone. I'm Bianna Golodryga.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. Good to be with you.

The Biden administration is condemning Russia's latest barrage of missile attacks on major Ukrainian cities and is now preparing to send Ukraine a key defense system.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Foreign language).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: You hear that explosions rattling multiple parts of the country today, knocking out power water supplies in several cities Kyiv, Odessa, Kharkiv among the cities targeted.

GOLODRYGA: Air raid alerts and explosions rocked the capital of Kyiv as well forcing residents as you see there in these videos to shelter at metro stations. Ukrainian officials say 76 missiles were fired, killing two people and damaging critical infrastructure.

The U.S., meantime, is finalizing plans to beef up its Ukrainian aid, including the Patriot missile defense system.

CNNs. Oren Liebermann is at the Pentagon for us.

And Oren, that defense system can't come soon enough for Ukraine. What do we know about when they're going to get it?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: And you see how crucial air defenses are. This is something that Pentagon has talked about, that U.S. has talked about and many countries in Europe have mentioned it's one of the most critical pieces of equipment that Ukraine needs.

And CNN has learned that within the next days, perhaps early next week, the expectation is that the U.S. will announce the approval of Patriot air defense missiles to Ukraine. This is one of the most advanced aerial defense systems the U.S. has and Ukraine has been asking for it for months. It would essentially sit on top of the capabilities they already have, a long range air defense system that would go on top of the NASAMS that were provided a few months ago, as well as the shorter range Stingers that were provided way at the beginning of this conflict back in February, March in that timeframe.

Now, Russia has said there would be "unpredictable consequences" if the U.S. provided Patriot missiles to Ukraine, but the Pentagon basically dismissed that saying, Russia won't be dictating what aid the U.S. is willing to give to Ukraine.

It's also worth noting that what these Patriots are designed to take out, that is Russian drones, Russian missiles, Russian rockets are exactly what other systems have already handled, that is the NASAMS, the Stingers. So it's the same target set and that hasn't proven to be escalatory.

Ukraine has already shown they're quite capable at air defense of those 70 or so missiles that were launched, Ukraine says they took out some 60 of those. But as you can see, even when a few get through, it can have devastating consequences for Ukraine. Bianna? Victor?

BLACKWELL: All right. Oren Liebermann for us there at the Pentagon, thank you.

GOLODRYGA: After years' long court fight, time is now running out for Democrats to decide what to do with Donald Trump's tax returns.

BLACKWELL: CNN's Lauren Fox is with us now from Capitol Hill. We're talking just a matter of days left to decide what to do. What's their plan?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Well, we are just getting some new information from the House Ways and Means Committee, they have announced that they will hold an official business meeting on Tuesday to discuss this information. We expect that at that meeting, they will go into what is known as an executive session. That means the press will get kicked out of the room, the members will meet privately to discuss the tax information that they have had access to and to decide perhaps what to do with that information, whether or not they want to release any of that information, release a report, release a summary of it or release potentially underlying returns themselves. Those decisions are going to be made by committee members.

We should note that Democrats control this committee, but in a couple of weeks, that will not be the case, which is why time is really of the essence here. Richard Neal, the Ways and Means Chairman had asked for these documents years ago, he'd been embattled in a court fight for that information. They now have access to the president's tax information, but what they're going to do with it still remains to be seen. We're going to get a lot more information on Tuesday after this meeting.

BLACKWELL: Lauren Fox there for us on Capitol Hill. Keep us up to date, Lauren, thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Federal investigators have obtained access to emails and other writings by Republican Congressman Scott Perry as part of the criminal investigation into January 6th.

[15:05:03]

BLACKWELL: Newly unsealed court documents revealed just how broadly federal prosecutors have been searching.

CNN's Katelyn Polantz is with us now with some new details. So what are the writings that investigators are looking for now beyond what they've already received?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Victor and Bianna, we are learning, basically from some new court filings today about all of these investigative steps that were taken the whole way back over the summer and into the fall. What we learned is that the investigators did a bunch of searches on email accounts, specifically the email accounts of three different people who were allied with Donald Trump right around the election and afterwards and were really working to try and help him hold on to the presidency.

Those email accounts, those were - those people were Jeffrey Clark, who was a Justice Department official, Ken Klukowski, who was a deputy of his and John Eastman, who was a private attorney for Donald Trump at the time. So that's the emails that they searched. And then once the Justice Department got a hold of those emails, they were going through them and there were specific things they went to court to get access to. The first thing, they were trying to get access to emails that these three men had with Republican representative, Scott Perry, who was also in line with them, with their thinking trying to keep Trump questioning the election publicly.

So Scott Perry's emails with these three men was something that a judge did give them access to. The other thing they got access to, Victor and Bianna, was of several pages, drafts, that Jeffrey Clark had wrote for his own autobiography, an outline he did. And in that, he had written six different chapters about the 2020 election.

GOLODRYGA: And Katelyn, we just showed a graphic briefly about the House January 6 Committee and who exactly they may be considering for criminal referrals, if we can get that graphic backed up. Talk about who these people are and why that's significant.

POLANTZ: We'll remember the House Select Committee when they meet, we do expect them to announce on Monday, who they're going to be making criminal referrals on. Two of those people clearly are already subjects of this bond going criminal investigation by the Justice Department.

John Eastman and Jeffrey Clark, they are the people whose email accounts are being searched, who we know were publicly searched.

Mark Meadows was the White House chief of staff at the time of the election, and afterwards, Rudy Giuliani was also acting as a private attorney for Donald Trump.

Those are four people that the House Select Committee could refer over to the Justice Department. But, of course, remember, this would just be a political decision that they would be making. The Justice Department knows the existence of these four people what they were doing around the election and may already be looking quite a lot into their behavior and their communications.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, I'm sure they've been closely following it as well, their own separate investigation. Katelyn Polantz, thank you.

Well, CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig joins us now. So Elie, we should preface this by saying that a criminal referral from this committee doesn't have to be taken up by the DOJ. They have their own investigation going. We've spent the past couple of weeks talking about what could happen if these referrals are handed down.

But let's play the opposite perspective here. What happens if there is no criminal referral, at least specific to the former president? What would lead - what would that do, in your view?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Bianna, in terms of prosecutors and DOJ, that would do nothing, that would make no difference, that would not deter or slow down or sidetrack DOJ's investigation in any way. I think the concern on the Committee's end is if they finish up all the work, they've done all the hearings, they've put on all the really quite compelling evidence and then don't make a criminal referral. I think there's a concern that there'll be some sort of negative inference.

Well, the Committee must not think any crimes are committed. You've heard members of the Committee say something to that effect. And for that reason, I think it's very likely consistent with our reporting that they will make a referral and Donald Trump will be one of those people named.

BLACKWELL: So the lack of a referral doesn't really mean anything for the prosecutors there. But what does the referral mean? Does it help? Does it hurt a prosecutor's case at all?

HONIG: So it doesn't help any more than the evidence itself. So in other words, if I'm a prosecutor and when this report issues next week, let's assume it's going to be many hundreds of pages. I'm not going to really care if it says this is a referral or not. I am sure as heck going to go through that report every page, every word of that report, looking for evidence.

We know, by the way, Victor, that the Committee got to plenty of evidence that DOJ either didn't have or the Committee got to it first. For example, we know the Committee interviewed and got testimony from Cassidy Hutchinson, from Pat Cipollone and from others before DOJ got there.

So if I'm a prosecutor, I'm going through that report with a fine tooth comb. I'm seeing is there information and evidence in here that I can use in my investigation. And by the way, Merrick Garland said that in his statement a couple of weeks ago.

He said, we want, we need all their evidence because we need to consider it in our investigation.

GOLODRYGA: Elie, you have said the Special Counsel Jack Smith hasn't skipped a beat since he's appointed to this investigation, investigating the January 6th insurrection and the attacks there and that he's worked very quickly.

[15:10:07]

That having been said, you had been critical of the DOJ in months past at the pace that they were taking this case. And you say there still could be consequences from that in terms of what a case may look like, if it is brought to trial. Can you explain why?

HONIG: Yes, Bianna. My criticism was that for the first year and a half or so of this investigation, there was no indication that DOJ was focusing on the top level players. That time is valuable time because the closer you get to the 2024 election, and remember an indictment is just the start, you got to try this case even if there's an indictment. That's another year out.

The closer you get to 2024, the more difficult it gets to convince a jury to come back with unanimous verdict. Now, there has been a noted change the last four to six months, DOJ now is starting to look at higher level players.

Katelyn's reporting just now is a perfect example of that. They're looking at Jeffrey Clark, they're looking at John Eastman, they're trying to get these - they did get these emails involving Rep. Scott Perry. And so I think there's been a notable change in the pace and focus in direction of the investigation. And if anything, I think that has been accelerated in the last almost a month now since Jack Smith was named Special Counsel.

BLACKWELL: Elie, let me get your thoughts on the reporting from Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill that after years of fighting to get them, congressional Democrats now have the former President's tax returns, there's going to be convening on Tuesday, potentially going to executive session to look at them. This was for legislative purpose, how much time do they have? What can they do?

HONIG: Yes, Victor. I think they need to be very careful about potentially releasing these tax returns to the public. For one thing, Ways and Means Committee had to go to court to fight for their right which they won, to get these individual tax returns. It went all the way up to the Supreme Court, Ways and Means won, they should have won.

In that legal battle though, Victor, they specifically said we are doing this for a legislative purpose. We're not doing this because we want to investigate or expose Donald Trump. We're doing this so we can craft legislation. So it will be somewhat inconsistent with that promise they made to a court to then release the records.

The other thing is the very law that Ways and Means relied on here says generally speaking, if Ways and Means gets an individual's tax returns that should be maintained confidentially. So again, Ways and Means could be asking for a bit of trouble here if they just come out and leak or publish Donald Trump's individual tax returns.

BLACKWELL: All right. Elie Honig, thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Thanks, Elie.

Britain's King Charles on his toes while visiting a Jewish community center today.

I think he did quite well there. While he and the palace continue to stay mum on the latest installment of the Harry & Meghan documentary, many Brits are not.

BLACKWELL: Not exactly on his toes there.

GOLODRYGA: His heels.

BLACKWELL: But for what it's worth - on his heels - for what it's worth, the tabloids and the talk shows they say that Prince Harry and Duchess Meghan are losing the war of public opinion. Now, remember their role in all of this in the Netflix docu series, the couple goes into the breakdown in the family that led them to leave their royal duties back in 2020.

CNN's Scott McLean is in London with the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: It was terrifying to have my brother screaming, shouting at me and my father say things that just simply weren't true and my grandmother quietly sit there and sort of take it all in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The final revelations made in Harry & Meghan's Netflix series have been met with stone cold silence from Buckingham Palace, but not from the British public or the press. The morning after the tabloids can't get enough, though it was the Prince and Princess of Wales on nearly every front page, the Mail casting Prince William in a soft light compared to Harry's savage onslaught, while The Sun labeled him a traitor, declaring war on his own family. Others question the couple's motives and their honesty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PIERS MORGAN, BRITISH BROADCASTER: Harry and Meghan take their audience for fools, they blame everybody but themselves. They present even the most incendiary of claims with no evidence and sadly the impact is real. Prince Harry surely is now a traitor to the country that he once served.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Essentially, Harry is using the media, to complain about the media, but really to complain about his brother. It's quite painful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just rather unedifying and I think they're losing the war of public opinion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLEAN: A new poll shows the ones wildly popular couple now have more detractors than fans in the U.K., with a net popularity rating of minus three for Harry and minus 19 for Meghan, still far better than Prince Andrew but far worse than King Charles or Harry's brother, Prince William. The same poll found almost six in 10 Brits think that making the Netflix series at all was a bad idea.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he should move on and not throw his family under the bus.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just think that it's - there's a little bit of desperation about it. His brother is going to be the king of England, is that any way really for him to be going on really, making documentary on Netflix.

[15:15:07] MCLEAN (off camera): Do you think they should have made it in the first place?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. If they're seeking privacy, probably not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you're going to run away from the press, run away from the press, don't - I'm leaving London because the press has been awful to me, but then I'm going to let Netflix into my house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's aimed at division, complete division. It's the Royal Family, it's about broken apart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Or proved, Victor, of just how polarizing that documentary has turned out to be. But boy, people are watching (inaudible) play.

BLACKWELL: Huge audiences. Yes.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

BLACKWELL: Huge audiences, but seems like a lot of people are weighing in, everybody has an opinion. Thank you, Scott.

So polling may show Americans do not have much of an appetite for a Trump-Biden rematch, but the top two Democrats in Congress, they are all in on Biden term take two. More on that. And why Speaker Pelosi thinks Trump's family should hold an intervention, that's next.

And we're keeping an eye on the Dow, another sharp selloff adding to yesterday's brutal trading day. We'll get into that in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:20:28]

BLACKWELL: We're now to a CNN exclusive. The top two Democrats in Congress, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, they are sharing their strongest support yet for Biden 2024 campaign.

GOLODRYGA: At an incredible venue, we should note ...

BLACKWELL: Mm-hm.

GOLODRYGA: ... in their first joint interview with CNN's Jamie Gangel, they discussed what it was like to negotiate with former President Trump all while enjoying a little moo shu and dumplings. I think some shrimp was thrown in there as well at their favorite Chinese restaurant.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: There's a CNN poll that just came out that shows there's little appetite on both sides for a Biden- Trump rematch in 2024. You're stepping aside, do you think President Biden should step aside for a younger generation?

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I think President Biden has done an excellent job as President of the United States. I hope that he does seek reelection. He's been a great president.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): And look at what he's accomplished. A lot of people ...

GANGEL: You think he should run again?

SCHUMER: ... yes, he's done an excellent, excellent job and if he runs - I'm going to support him all the way.

GANGEL: Right now, Donald Trump is the only Republican who has announced he could be the nominee. He could be president again. You've been through the first presidency. You've been through January 6th. What would it mean if Donald Trump was reelected president?

SCHUMER: I don't think it will happen. The American people have gotten wise, too. It took a little while, but they did.

PELOSI: I don't think that we should talk about him while we're eating.

SCHUMER: See.

PELOSI: Really? Another Trump presidency?

GANGEL: You call Donald Trump "insane."

PELOSI: I think there's a need for an intervention there by his family or somebody. I don't think he's on the level, no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Joining us now, two CNN Political Commentators, S.E. Cupp and Maria Cardona.

Usually when you do interviews at restaurants, the food is a prop. They ate. I mean, they really enjoy whatever they were eating, which I love about this interview. But let's get to the content. And Maria, let me start with you. What else were they going to say about a Biden 2024 campaign, nah, he should hang it up, I mean, what's the value of hearing them say they're all-in when the polling shows that Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents want someone else?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's hugely important, Victor, because what it does is it reminds the American people have some very important facts that this was, has been an incredibly accomplished administration and president. Under Joe Biden's leadership, this Congress has passed the most impactful legislation on climate change in history, the most substantive legislation on healthcare since President Obama, the most impactful legislation on infrastructure since FDR and the list goes on and on.

And Joe Biden has led this country in the last two years, with dignity, with a plum, with empathy, with compassion, enduring some of the most challenging and divisive environments that we find ourselves in, except - not counting the Civil War. And he, frankly, bring about even with his low approval ratings, incredible successes for the Democrats during the midterm elections.

He also has been one of the most underestimated presidents in history, which I think will work in his favor. So, of course, Sen. Schumer and Speaker Pelosi said what they said, hell, he should run. Absolutely, he should run. With those types of accomplishments, Victor, no one would say anything else. I don't understand this poll. I have to tell you. I also think he should run and especially if Trump is the one who's going to win on the Republican side and right now there's every chance that he will, if President - if Trump runs again, President Biden should absolutely run because he will win reelection.

GOLODRYGA: Can I just weigh in on the moo shu lunch, too, because ladies, I was just so impressed that she was holding that moo shu wrap with her lipstick on and it stayed on and when I looked at the wrap thoroughly, it wasn't on the wrap, it wasn't on her teeth, that was quite impressive. But on the substance, S.E. ...

CARDONA: I agree with you.

GOLODRYGA: ... on the substance, S.E., let's talk about that idea that - what you just heard from Maria - that she thinks that if it is going to be Donald Trump that Biden should definitely run against him.

[15:25:00]

Do you think that's something that Republicans would support at some point even if the numbers don't show that right now?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Like a Biden ticket? I mean, at their peril, he's the only one to have beaten Donald Trump before. And Maria's right, he's done a lot of things and he's been underestimated. And let's not forget, he's only halfway through his first term.

But I actually think it is a big deal that Chuck and Nancy said what they said and they didn't have to say that, because as you guys both know, we have journalists at CNN who have stopped Democrats in the halls of Congress and asked should Biden run and some have said no or hedged or said I don't know or I don't think he will. That's a bad look for Biden, more of Chuck and Nancy saying, of course he should run is exactly what he needs. He needs that kind of support and, frankly, why I've been saying he should announce sooner rather than later, so that question is completely off the table and you hear more of Chuck and Nancy saying, of course, we're glad that he's running, there's no one else.

BLACKWELL: S.E., I was going to leave this to the end, but what my executive producer just told us, I can't let time run out without bringing it up, the NFTs, these Trump trading cards that were $99, we all laugh, they have all sold out and Trump made $4.5 million.

CUPP: He needs the money ...

BLACKWELL: I mean, but ...

CUPP: ... and ...

BLACKWELL: ... what is happening here?

CUPP: ... I'm not surprised.

BLACKWELL: I am.

CUPP: I am not surprised. I'm not surprised by any of this. The last thing Donald Trump is, is presidential, so of course, he's going to make money anywhere he can and how is he going to make it off of his supporters. This is what he has done for the past six years. He's asked for money. He's kept it. And he's, I think, now relying on his supporters, again, to spend hard earned money on these invisible trading cards that exist somewhere, but that you can't actually hold and I think it's - I'm not surprise this is 100 percent Trump.

GOLODRYGA: Okay. So Maria, if we can just end on the infighting that we see taking place within the Republican Party and sort of the Freedom Caucus really pushing back against Kevin McCarthy, holding the speakership position in the new year?

I'm curious to get your perspective from the Democratic side what that signals in terms of what Republicans will and won't do when it comes to even the appearance of legislating in the new year?

CARDONA: That's such an important question, Bianna, because let's remember that Kevin McCarthy and Republicans writ large during the midterm elections were very specific on what they were going to do if they won or when they won the House and they were so sure they were going to win the House by huge margins and the Senate and that did not happen.

But they said that they were going to focus and prioritize legislation on the economy, on inflation, on crime, on the border. And what's the first thing that Kevin McCarthy announces? Investigations. Possible impeachment. And what this tells me and we've actually seen him do it in the light of day is that he is involved in a corrupt bargain with the most extreme leaders, members of Congress of the MAGA caucus, because there's no other way that he can get to 218.

He is selling his votes left and right. And what Democrats are worried about and they're going to try to stop every step of the way is that they are going to prioritize investigations instead of legislation and the American people deserve better.

GOLODRYGA: All right. We'll have to leave it there. S.E. Cupp, Maria Cardona, have a good weekend, ladies. Thank you.

CARDONA: Thanks so much, Bianna. Thanks, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, with travelers back in full force post pandemic, frequent flyer say airlines are pulling back on all of those perks. We'll get some answers on why that is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)