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Zelenskyy Arrives At White House For Meeting With Biden; House Ways & Means Committee Votes To Publicly Release Trump's Tax Returns. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired December 21, 2022 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The ally of Ukraine over the course of that war. And that matters both because the war is at a very clear pivot point right now after two Ukrainian offensives that have been successful, but also in very much a grinded- out mode that is going to take time, time that U.S. officials say they don't have a clear endgame or outcome laid out yet. That will be one of the issues that will likely be discussed in the closed-door meetings between the two presidents.

The substance here is critical, not just in terms of how things will play out going forward but as you noted, Victor, they had an additional $1.8 billion on top of around $20 billion in defense assistance over the course of the last nine months. And what this tranche of money does more than anything else is expanding the capabilities of Ukraine, adding a Patriot missile system, something President Zelenskyy has requested for several months, the administration and President Biden finally signing off on that moving forward. It is just a more in-depth commitment from the U.S., which has been very clear they will be committed throughout at a very critical moment for both Ukraine and the U.S. and Western allies supporting them, Victor.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Phil, again, we will stand by to see that historic drive up to the White House as President Zelenskyy will be meeting with President Biden.

Will, to you now in Kyiv. As we discussed, as we just heard from Phil, Zelenskyy's first trip abroad in months. He's coming with a list of things that he liked, the president is offering more support. What more is he hoping to get out of this visit?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think he wants a commitment for the long haul, Victor. The -- he doesn't want to be pressured to take concessions or to accept concessions and give Russia Ukrainian territory that was illegally seized going back almost nine years to 2014. Here in Kyiv and across Ukraine, the Ukrainian people that we've met, that we've spoken with, and leaders as well, up to the very top with President Zelenskyy say, this war that Russia started doesn't end until they get back Crimea until they get back all the territory in the Donetsk region that the Russians are currently occupying. And so, they do not see this as a possible ceasefire, where the lines stay as they are. They want to take back territory, and they're having a hard time doing that right now. And it's going to get potentially much harder in the coming months.

One, because you have these mobilized Russian troops by the hundreds of thousands that are currently training, and yes, they're green and yes, Russia is ill-equipped, but they do have large numbers. Larger numbers, potentially than what they have in Ukraine, given that it's a much smaller country, although with much better weapons, as we've seen in brilliant generalship as well. I mean, just the battlefield strategy on the part of the Ukrainians has been vastly superior and yet the Russians are learning and they now have private mercenaries from the Wagner group fighting. These are very experienced fighters who are on the front lines.

And so, as a result, the lines are essentially holding. The Russians are not retaking territory. They haven't really taken Bakhmut, which President Zelenskyy just visited, that frontline town that's been under constant Russian bombardment and attack for weeks now. He was there just yesterday.

The fact that he is now there today in Washington about to meet with President Biden, it is a truly historic and extraordinary moment because this is the president that on the first day of the invasion on February 24, stayed in Ukraine, stayed in Kyiv in his bunker, his family, his children stayed in Ukraine. And that moment instantly made him a symbol of the resistance that has now spread, a resistance that every single Ukrainian we've met is taking part in their own way. Whether it be those who are volunteering, those who are fighting, or those who are cooking meals for their neighbors because nobody in the neighborhood has electricity and they're cooking over woodstove.

That strength was really inspired in many ways by this Ukrainian president. And he wants a commitment from the U.S. just says he wants from NATO for more weapons. Every time that new weapons system that was arrived, he asked for more. He asks for more because he says this is not just Ukraine's fight. He says Ukraine is fighting a war against Russia, but it's a war that the entire world could have to fight if Ukraine loses this war, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right, we see now President and First Lady Jill Biden. They are they're now waiting for President Zelenskyy to drive up the Marines there on the drive. And we're expecting to see the car drive up here. So, we will pause for a moment and listen in as the president welcomes President Zelenskyy of Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: President, welcome back. It is an honor to (INAUDIBLE).

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Pretty close.

JOE BIDEN: Yes.

JILL BIDEN, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: (INAUDIBLE)

ZELENSKYY: Everybody should. Pretty face.

(INAUDIBLE)

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:05:09]

BLACKWELL: They want to be inside the White House. We'll see them again in just a few minutes. But quickly from you, Phil, because I know you've got to go inside as well. This president entered office saying that this century would be about democracies versus dictatorships. What does this commitment and showing the world his commitment to supporting Ukraine and their fight against Russia mean to President Biden?

MATTINGLY: Everything to some degree. And I'm not trying to overstate things, but the existential moment the president believes that the United States really geopolitically the entire world is in has been brought to it a very acute manner in the sense of what they've seen with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Obviously, it's often thought through the context of where China is, and the competition with China. But this in particular, in this moment, has been critical. It has really driven the last year from this administration, this White House, and has gotten at the core of what President Biden has long said is so critical, the Western alliance that has been in place for 80-plus years that he wants to maintain, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right, Phil Mattingly, I know you've got to get inside the White House. We'll see you in a couple of minutes as well. Will, stay with us.

And I want to expand the conversation now and bring in CNN's Nick Paton Walsh, retired U.S. Army Major Mike Lyons, Steven Pifer, former ambassador to Ukraine and an affiliate for the Stanford Center for International Security and Cooperation. Mr. Ambassador, let me start with you, and then I'll get this from you as well, Major. But diplomatically, I talk about the timing, why now? Why this trip the first one out of Ukraine to the U.S. for President Zelenskyy?

STEVEN PIFER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Yes. I believe there are several factors. One is to have a face-to-face conversation with President Biden. I mean, from Kyiv's point of view, you know, Washington is the leading element of this effort to support Ukraine and do things like impose sanctions on Russia. So, it's a sense for the two leaders to get together.

I think President Zelenskyy will be expressing gratitude for American support but he's also going to be asking for more. He's in a situation where he needs more American arms if they're going to continue to push the Russians back as they have over the last three months. And I think also his address to Congress is going to be important.

Traditionally, over the last 30 years, support for Ukraine has been bipartisan, Republicans and Democrats. But you've seen over the last six months, some worrisome signs in some Republican ranks. And so, I think President Zelenskyy has an opportunity to make the case for why he needs more help from America, but also why providing that help is in the American interest.

BLACKWELL: And we'll talk about that address that's scheduled for the 7:00 p.m. hour tonight in just a moment. But, Major, let me come to you. Militarily, the war has ebbed and flowed for both Ukraine and Russia. This moment, what are we seeing that gives President Zelenskyy the confidence that he can leave his country, come back as well? What do you see on the ground?

MAJ. MIKE LYONS, (RET.) U.S. ARMY: I think is still high risk. I think the fact that the Russians have retreated on the eastern side of the Dnipro River, they are forging that place like you know, tomorrow, they're doing everything they can dig in, there's just maybe a slight pause on their part. But they've got offensive operations that they're trying to likely do the Russians are to take back some of those areas that they just lost to counter-offensives.

It's winter time. I checked my weather app every day to see what's going on there. It is more difficult for the Ukraine side on that. Ukraine still doesn't have the river crossing capability to go on the counter-offensive. That would be the United States' military support. Give them what they can to go on the counter-offensive.

And then one last point, to the north, in Belarus, there is a risk of Russia aligning with the Belarusian military and potentially opening up another front that could potentially threaten Kyiv. That's still always hangs out there. So, lots going on from a Ukrainian military perspective. I think this leader had to do this now at this point. Now's the time to come thank the president and also get more military equipment.

BLACKWELL: Nick, the thoughts on the welcome here of the President of Ukraine, what do you see and what do you think?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: When you have to wind back to February when the intelligence was accurately predicting a Russian invasion, but saying it could be over possibly in a matter of weeks because Russia would be so vastly superior as a military. And now here we have Volodymyr Zelenskyy, a reality TV actor before he turned president, now getting out of an armored vehicle and being welcomed by the Commander in Chief of the most powerful military of the world. Images you frankly could simply never have imagined would be the case.

You couldn't really have imagined back in February that Zelenskyy would have been so successful as a figure uniting his nation, allowing them to resist Russia's invasion, and now over the past months, take back huge swathes of Ukraine that for so long, you'd begun to feel might permanently become part of Moscow's grasp. And I have to say when I saw him getting out of that vehicle, Joe Biden putting his arm around him, you really get a sense I think of how important the choreography, the symbolism of this trip really is.

[14:10:10]

There is Zelenskyy in military fatigues, everyone to be reminded this is the man who daily sends men to the frontline to die, the Ukrainian trident on his sweatshirt there. And this is a man clearly who's probably having the first moment out of Ukraine for a significant period of time. He'll be jet-lagged. He'll have a list in his mind of the things he needs Joe Biden to understand.

But this is also true about showing the world that regardless of the belief you might have about how Western nations have limited patience for this fight, that they don't want to spend unlimited resources on supporting Ukraine or see the economic damage they're suffering because of the energy crisis go on for years. But essentially, Washington is doing this because it wants to remind people in this relative lull in the conflict that their patients too, is long-term. That they have the capacity for this to go on, maybe for months longer than anybody had previously expected.

Because essentially, the Kremlin's logic in all of this is that if they wait out the West if they see electoral cycles change in western democracies, that they might see a softening of Western resolve. And I think this is about a new Congress coming into play. The same leader who's remarkably managed to hold Ukraine together finally getting a chance to meet the man who's supplied so much of their weaponry and finance over the past months.

And I have to say, when I saw him get out of that vehicle and join Joe Biden, it was quite a remarkable moment, not something anybody who saw this war began, necessarily foresaw as a moment when the anticipation had been of a swift Russian military victory. And it just reminds you of how startling Ukraine's resistance has been, and also the tens of thousands of lives we've lost over the last months.

BLACKWELL: Yes, a startling moment indeed seeing -- a stunning moment, I should say, to see Zelenskyy there welcome to the White House. We will also, as we've discussed, see President Zelenskyy address a joint session of Congress in the 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour.

Ambassador, before I get back to Will, let me come back to you. Obviously, he is speaking there to a congress, one chamber of which will soon be led by Republicans. The commitment to supporting Ukraine has ranged from it is imperative to not another penny. That's one audience. But there's also the audience of the American people. Detail what he has to say to an audience who will be watching on television about why it is still important to support his country as they fight off this Russian invasion.

PIFER: Yes. I think we're going to see a couple of central points in Zelenskyy's speech to Congress, and also to the broader American public. A one there will be gratitude. I mean, the United States has been the key partner for Ukraine as it fights off this unprovoked war of aggression that Vladimir Putin launched on Ukraine back in February. But also, I think he will detail the case for continuing to support Ukraine and for providing more weapons. And making the point that, of course, it's in Ukraine's interest, but that Ukraine is really fighting Russia in a way that also is important for American interests.

And I'll make two points. You know, going back 70 years, it's been in the U.S. national interest to have a stable and secure Europe. If Russia wins this war, you're not going to have that kind of Europe. It's going to soak up much more time and American resources. But the second point is, we don't know how far Vladimir Putin's ambitions go. When he talks about Ukraine, he talks about not a sovereign country, but what he refers to as historic Russian land.

If you look at a map of the Russian Empire, the Baltic states and part of Poland, were once historic Russian land. And we have to ask ourselves how far do Putin's ambitions go. With regards to Ukraine, our commitment is to provide money and arms. If it got to the Baltic states or Poland, those countries are members of NATO.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

PIFER: And at that point, you're talking about providing American soldiers. It's better for the United States to stop Putin in Ukraine.

BLACKWELL: Will, has there been some reaction from the Kremlin to this additional support and to this visit?

RIPLEY: Yes. Certainly, they -- the Patriot missile systems, they've said that they would be legitimate targets that they would try to find them and hit them with their own missiles if, of course, that was possible, which is an open question. A lot of these Russian missiles don't make -- miss their targets even with Ukraine's existing missile defense. They shoot the majority of them down, but those that do make it through are causing catastrophic damage to the civilian power grid here.

Vladimir Putin just today had a meeting talking about the need to modernize his military. And if you listen to the things that he was saying, they're really doubling down on almost, you know, moving Russia more towards a military state type of strategy. And when he talked about the fighting in Ukraine acknowledging the difficulties, acknowledging the need for his military to improve, acknowledging the need for training, he basically said whatever the military needs, the military is going to get in terms of resources.

[14:15:13]

Why is that frightening? Well, he also talked about Ukraine just being one of many potential frontlines. In other words, Russia up against NATO in the West. This is the unspoken and actually not even unspoken now, it is the spoken intent of Vladimir Putin. He is not giving up on Ukraine and in fact, doubling down on beefing up his own military.

Now, is that any match for these U.S. weapons and these resources that are being flooded into Ukraine? It hasn't been so far in a substantial way. But you mentioned earlier up the northern border with Belarus where Russian troops are assembling and their numbers have been increasing in at least three regions in Belarus. So, Putin and Lukashenko the President of Belarus, who are very close allies and friends, they had a meeting the other day, talking about deepening their partnership.

This is potentially another line that could open up you know. It's -- the Ukrainians here in Kyiv are certainly stating publicly, they said to the economist signaling that they think in advance on Kyiv is going to happen at some point early next year granted, both sides, as Nick has pointed out, do use disinformation to their advantage to try to throw off the other side. But it could, you know, an exhausted Ukrainian military, which is fighting fiercely in the east into the south, also have to fight up north. Do they have the resources and the weapons to do that?

BLACKWELL: Yes.

RILEY: All of these are things that President Zelenskyy will be discussing with President Biden and his inner circle at the White House today.

BLACKWELL: Major, let me quickly read with you. With the addition of the Patriot missile systems, does Ukraine now have the full arsenal that you think they need, or are there additional types of weaponry that you think they need to fight off Russia?

LYONS: Patriots are good. They're not game-changers, though. They're going to help them protect their critical infrastructure until the United States provides offensive weapons. And that's where I think the line gets drawn about whether or not we're well into this attack comes other -- the all of those kinds of things.

The bottom line is Zelenskyy still doesn't have leverage over Russia to get them to stop fighting. I think Ukraine's military would have to threaten Crimea. I think that is their -- the Alamo. They have to have that naval port. They have to have that for the Black Sea Fleet. And if they could somehow figure out a way to go on the offensive, at least threaten that, then they have some leverage on their side. Patriots good, don't get me wrong, but still not a game changer.

BLACKWELL: All right, Major Mike Lyons, Nick Paton Walsh, Ambassador Steven Pifer, Will Ripley, thank you all. We will see, of course, President Biden and President Zelenskyy in just a couple of minutes in the Oval Office.

We're days away from seeing years of former President Donald Trump's taxes. Democrats on the House Ways and Means Committee voted to release Trump's returns. A member of that committee joins me ahead.

Also, snow and temperatures are beginning to fall across the country. More than 90 million Americans are under winter weather alerts. How this is already impacting people trying to get to their holiday destinations? That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:21:42]

BLACKWELL: The House Ways and Means Committee has voted to publicly release six years of former President Donald Trump's tax returns. The Democrats on the panel also released a summary of their findings, and they revealed that Trump paid zero federal taxes in his last year in office. They also found the IRS failed to follow its own mandate to properly audit presidents and only began one audit of Trump over his term.

Democratic Congressman Dan Kildee is a member of the House Ways and Means Committee. He joins me now. Good to have you back, Congressman. Those are the headlines that I pulled from what your committee has released. What is your top takeaway?

REP. DAN KILDEE, (D-MI): Well, a couple of things. First of all, Victor, thanks for having me on. Two significant takeaways for me. One was that I was actually shocked that the IRS had not been following its own policy. It has been a practice of the IRS since 1977 to audit presidential tax returns.

In the Trump era, they simply didn't do it. And in fact, the only audit they initiated, was initiated on the very same day that they received a letter from Chairman Richie Neal asking under Section 6103 for access to these returns and information about the audits. That was one big shocker.

But then as we examine the returns themselves, we've talked about this, we've speculated about what Mr. Trump was doing with his businesses to avoid taxes. But to see two years where he paid $750 in income tax to the federal government, one year where he paid zero, and then all the various ways that he obviously used undocumented or unsubstantiated expenses to avoid paying taxes, it became very clear to me that something is dramatically wrong here. And something has to be done. And, of course, that leads to the purpose of the inquiry in the first place to produce legislation to correct this problem.

BLACKWELL: Yes. So, to your two headlines here. When you say there's something dramatically wrong here and you highlight how much the former president did or did not pay in federal taxes, did you see any evidence that suggests illegality?

KILDEE: You know, that? I don't know. It's -- you know, to me, it's hard for me to imagine that it's legal to be one of the richest people in America, according to his own assertions, and have all sorts of wealth coming in on a regular basis, but never have any income and actually have nothing but net losses. So, you know, I'm not a tax expert, except I see what I see on the page. And I know that there's something not right.

It clearly at least points to a situation where there are two tax codes in this country. One, for people who go to work every day, and other -- and other tax code for the people like Donald Trump, who can hire professionals to dodge responsibility. I don't know if any of this was illegal. But I can tell you this, it doesn't look right to me as a person who studied the tax code for a long time. And that's why we felt it was important to send this information to the Congress, along with recommendations that we act upon it.

And frankly, I didn't think it was sufficient simply to send our analysis. I personally was very much of the view that we have to send the full documentation so that we don't get into a situation where Trump's allies who will pick any way they can to defend him, will simply say that we selectively pick pieces of his returns in order to highlight the most egregious aspect of it. They can look at the whole thing, and they can make their own judgments.

[14:25:13]

BLACKWELL: All right. So, now in the presidential audit program, Democrats have suggested there should be more staffing there the IRS to handle these complicated returns. And as I said that there was one that was started during the term that has not been completed, according to Stacey Plaskett, a Representative who was also on the committee. It is -- is it clear to you that this was solely a resource problem that they did not have the people to complete these audits or that there was any avoidance there at the IRS during the Trump administration to audit the former president's tax returns?

KILDEE: Well, I think the IRS generally has a resource problem. But it's difficult for me to take that the IRS would use as a defense that it couldn't supply the sufficient manpower to do something as important as auditing the tax returns of the President of the United States, particularly one of the wealthiest people in the country. They assigned one person with no degree of specialization in this type of tax policy. So, look, IRS needs more resorts, for sure.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

KILDEE: But I don't think that's a sufficient excuse for them not to have done a job that the American people expect them to do to make sure that their president is held accountable for following the laws of the United States.

BLACKWELL: So, of course, when sending this on to the Senate, this becomes public, these six years of tax returns. You've talked about the legislative, the policy element here. I want to play for you what you said, this is April of 2019, about the goals of the request of these returns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KILDEE: Now, let's be clear. We're not asking for these returns to be made public. It's not even clear that other members of the committee, myself included, will ever see any of this information. This is specific to Chairman Neal because he needs this information in order to frame the questions that we are trying to answer and the policies that we are trying to potentially enact.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: So, now why are they being made public?

KILDEE: Well, because we were able to do the analysis. We didn't ask when we sent the request under 6103 in April of 2019. We didn't ask them for the IRS to publicize the documents. We asked them to provide them to us so that we can do the analysis required.

After having done that analysis, we made the determination that the next necessary step was twofold. One, to prepare legislation in order to correct what we saw after a review of these really significant deficiencies. And second, to supply the information that we think is necessary to justify enacting this legislation. And in our judgment, that included disclosing the base information that was used to formulate our judgment in the first place. So, it's a distinction as to what we were asking of the IRS not so much what determination we made once having done the analysis.

BLACKWELL: Congressman Dan Kildee of Michigan, thank you.

KILDEE: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is now meeting with President Biden. And we are expected to hear remarks from the two leaders in the Oval Office. We'll bring those to you live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)