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Jan. 6 Committee Releases First Transcripts From Key Witnesses; Cities Grapple With Strain Of Increasing Migrant Arrivals; Biden Admin Offers To Release Tamiflu From Strategic National Stockpile; Astronauts On 7-Hour Spacewalk To Boost Solar Power At ISS; NASA Ends Mars Insight Mission After Lander`s Power Levels Run Low; Netanyahu Forms Right-Wing Govt. With Help From Ultra-Orthodox Allies. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired December 22, 2022 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: For some of them dozens of times over. Roger Stone pleaded the fifth when asked about his age. John Eastman wouldn`t confirm he wrote documents that had his name on them. And Michael Flynn, thank Trump for giving him a pardon.

Joining me now Elie Honig, CNN Senior Legal Analyst, former Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, and Margaret Talev, a CNN Political Analyst and Managing Editor at Axios. Before we get to the legal aspects, Margaret, I mean, Flynn, Eastman, Stone, Jeffrey Clark from the DOJ, they pleaded the fifth to nearly every question --

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

SCIUTTO: -- even mundane ones, like, how old are you? I mean, is that a legal strategy? Was that more a kind of defiance, to say, I don`t recognize you guys as legitimate?

TALEV: It`s certainly the latter. We know that it`s the latter because that is publicly and privately what the messaging from Trump World has been, which is like this investigation isn`t legitimate. You`ll legitimize it if you cooperate with it.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TALEV: So there`s certainly a political aspect to it, but there could be a legal aspect to it as well. You know, the real teeth is going to come from the Justice Department or from Jack Smith. And I think, to some extent, where this all comes together is you really see now, at least at this moment, in sort of U.S. politics, how little teeth congressional --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TALEV: -- hearings and investigations have when there is not bipartisan unity around the cause of the investigation. SCIUTTO: All right, Elie Honig, you, of course, you got the January 6 committee investigation, but you have the DOJ investigation. Will their answers be any different to DOJ questions here? I mean, I thought this was about self-incrimination. And does that also indicate to you that they`re worried about self-incriminating?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So yes, it does indicate that there`s some worry, some concern here, Jim. Any person, of course, is entitled to take the fifth if they believe their testimony might incriminate them, that`s what it`s there for. And it`s an important constitutional protection.

Now, as you noted, some of these people took the fifth in extraordinarily broad ways not, you know, how could your age possibly incriminate you? And I agree with Margaret, I think part of that is just a symbol of defiance. But the other part is, people when they take the fifth want to take it very broadly, so they`re not ever accused of having wave given away their fifth amendment, right? Now I think it was excessive here.

Now, the different calculation when DOJ, if DOJ subpoenas and interrogates questions these people, they can still take the fifth. But DOJ then has a counter move, which is called immunity. So if DOJ wants to, they can say to, let`s say, Jeffrey Clark, OK, we`re going to force you to testify, but we`re not going to use your testimony against you. And as a practical matter, we`re not going to prosecute you. So that`s a really important strategic decision that prosecutors are thinking about right now.

SCIUTTO: Interesting. Margaret, I wonder, as we see the transcripts come out already, they`re going to have the final report as well released, does Trump team look at that and look at it nervously?

TALEV: They should be looking at it nervously, because everything in this report is going to become --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TALEV: -- now fair use for the Justice Department and for the actual criminal investigation to this, where the teeth lie. I think politically, like, this is now over in the context of Congress, Republicans are taking over in the House, this all goes away from a political perspective. But it is certainly not over from a legal perspective. And all of that does have an impact to some extent --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TALEV: -- on 2024 on the early wrangling for the GOP nomination. At this point, at this stage very early in the process, Donald Trump is not operating from a position of strength. He`s claiming his, you know, public argument is the more you`re against me, the more it helps me --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

TALEV: -- inside my base. It really depends on how Ron DeSantis does, how crowded that field gets, and what bears fruit from this, the actual criminal investigation other way.

SCIUTTO: Yes. So, I mean, is that -- as we see the final report released today, and these transcripts that came out yesterday, is the bigger significance of that, really for the DOJ`s investigation now because they can, of course, you know, troll these many transcripts for potential evidence for any indictment decisions they have?

HONIG: Yes, Jim, I think that`s exactly the significance. And both sides, by the way, are waiting for this report like we are eagerly I`m sure with their red pens out. From DOJ`s perspective, they want to see all the evidence and they need to get into the nuances of those transcripts, because DOJ can`t just rely on sort of the testimony as packaged and presented by the committee. They have to do their own assessment.

And I guarantee you, Donald Trump`s team, as you just discussed with Margaret, yes, there`s a sense of nerves, of trepidation about what`s going to be in here. But they`re also looking at this opportunistically because they are going to go through the testimony word for word of every witness who gave harmful testimony, whether Cassidy Hutchinson, Pat Cipollone.

They`re going to look for inconsistencies.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HONIG: They`re going to look for things that may help their client. And so this is really going to go both ways. But, yes, this is going to be a key foundation of evidence for prosecutors and potentially --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

HONIG: -- Trump`s lawyers alike.

SCIUTTO: Just as quickly, this congressional testimony was under oath. So if you kind of conflicted to the DOJ that`s potential criminal exposure for lying?

HONIG: Yes, I mean --

SCIUTTO: OK.

HONIG: -- if there`s a square contradiction that can be proven to have been done knowingly, intentionally, that could be perjury. Yes.

[10:35:10]

SCIUTTO: Understood. OK, Margaret Talev, Elie Honig, thanks so much for both of you.

HONIG: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Overwhelmed resources strain. The mayor of New York City is asking for extra money from the city council and the federal government to deal with an influx of migrants sent to his city by border states. That`s coming up. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:40:04]

SCIUTTO: Cities far from the southern border feeling the pressure to care for the growing number of migrants entering the U.S. In Philadelphia, three buses from Texas brought about 140 asylum seekers. The unscheduled drop offs make it difficult to provide help.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLANCA PACHECO, NEW SANCTUARY MOVEMENT OF PHILADELPHIA: It would be really good to know like what language is like are people speaking, where are they coming from and treating them in a human way. And this is not happening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Yes. No phone call in advanced. The city of New York is looking to the federal government for aid to help migrants there and it is set to get a substantial chunk of money via the government spending bill being voted on now. The Senate voting on amendments to that bill leading up to a final vote. A sticking point in negotiations had been Title 42.

CNN`s Polo Sandoval is in New York. Polo, what more is the mayor saying he needs? I mean, New York already has a massive homeless crisis, and now you have this influx of migrants.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As we saw this summer, Jim, it`s one issue on top of another, and so city leaders here in New York are not letting up and their fight for funding to be better positioned to be able to receive more migrants in a post-Title 42 climate whenever that does happen, as you noted.

So what we saw this week was Mayor Eric Adams put out a proposal to the city council that they should perhaps give up at least half of their discretionary funding. You`re talking about $600 million. And as you can imagine, a spokesperson for the city council released a statement they strongly oppose that proposal.

And that`s putting it lightly saying that that would actually take away resources from some of those nonprofits that we have seen at some of these scenes at Port -- New York`s Port Authority receiving these buses of migrants since this summer.

However, as you mentioned, there is some assistance that is on the way in that omnibus bill that`s currently in the hands of lawmakers in Congress. Chuck Schumer, New York Senator, managed to negotiate an increase from $150 million to $800 million for the cities that receive asylum seekers. And we`re told, according to multiple sources, that New York City`s position to receive a large batch of that amount.

So here`s New York City Mayor Eric Adams responding to that news this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D), NEW YORK: I think the President has a good understanding of how this is a real issue. We were able to get this omnibus bill, have the -- it has the money in it that we need, some of the money that we need of -- this is a national issue. And that`s my conversation with the President`s team, that we need a national solution, because it`s not about just, you know, painful --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Standing by. We are going to go to the President now giving comments, an update on the winter storm. Let`s listen it.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- dark red, it`s below zero. You know, it`s dangerous and threatening. This is really a very serious weather alert here. And it goes from Oklahoma all the way to Wyoming, and Wyoming to Maine. And it`s of real consequence.

So I encourage everyone, everyone, please heed the local warnings. We`ve contacted -- we`ve tried to contact 26 governors so far in affected regions. And go to weather.gov, weather.gov for more information.

And I know this is, you know, it`s like -- this is not like a snow day, you know, when you were a kid. This is serious stuff. And my team is prepared to help communities weather this -- no pun intended -- this storm, this freeze, and -- because we need to cope. They need to be able to cope if it`s necessary.

I`m going to, shortly, be briefed by both FEMA and the National Weather Service, and we`re going to start that briefing. And -- but in the meantime, please take this storm extremely seriously. And I don`t know whether your bosses will let you, but if you all have travel plans, leave now. Not a joke.

I`m sending my staff, my staff, if they have plans to leave on -- tomorrow -- late tonight or tomorrow, I`m telling them to leave now. They can talk to me on the phone. It`s not life and death. But it will be if they don`t get out, they may not get out.

So, anyway, thank you all for coming in, and I`m going to do the briefing now. Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: President Biden there warning Americans about the weather that we`ve been talking about all morning. Please do heed those warnings because there`s a lot of danger in places out there. And we`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:48:57]

SCIUTTO: Right now, some medicines especially for children are seeing a spike in demand amid a surge of respiratory viruses. The Biden administration is offering to increase access to, in particular, the prescription antiviral Tamiflu to states and territories that need it by tapping into the Strategic National Stockpile.

CNN Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now with more. You know, it`s interesting yesterday, I was talking to one of our colleagues who`s a mom saying she couldn`t get Tamiflu for her child. So I`m curious, how will this work and exactly where is it needed right now?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So Jim, there aren`t -- there doesn`t seem to be sort of an official nationwide shortage of Tamiflu. But people like our colleagues have had trouble getting it. Some pharmacists have said that they have had trouble getting the generic version of it.

So the Biden administration is saying to states, look, if you need it, let us know because we have the Strategic National Stockpile. It has Tamiflu, it has other drugs. It was tapped into for COVID, if you remember, also for mpox. And so states have their own stockpiles. And the Biden administration is saying, if you`re running low under stockpile, let us know and we can give you some of what we have.

[10:50:04]

Let`s take a look at flu numbers because they are still so high. This is a map of the United States. There are only five states here where flu is not at high or very high levels. All that red and orange and purple you see, that`s higher, very high. So only five states are not high or very high levels of flu.

And if you look at how the flu has been cumulatively, since the beginning of the season, there have been at least 150,000 hospitalizations and at least 9,300 deaths. Now, the problem with this flu season is not just that it`s bad, but that it came so early. And so there may have been some places that just weren`t as prepared as they would have been if it had hit like usual in, say, January or February. Jim?

SCIUTTO: So it`s definitely seen it out there. Elizabeth Cohen, thanks so much.

Benjamin Netanyahu is set to become prime minister of Israel once again. Just how his new government is the most right wing in Israel`s history. We have more coming up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I first heard shake it off, when the hook started, how does a person feel when they come home and they feel like their house has been robbed?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon as I heard the hook, I said, that`s 3LW.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 3LW had a steady fandom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had to take action somehow. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Songwriters Nathan Butler and Shawn Hall sue Taylor Swift claiming that "Shake It Off" borrowed from a song they wrote.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The part of the song that everybody remembers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Play as they got to play, and hate as they got to hate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This situation is bigger than me

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you have a hit song, you`re probably going to get sued.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sort of like trying to copyright "What`s up?"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone in the music industry is sort of looking over their shoulder.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Taylor`s team has been arguing it`s a money grab.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you respect other songwriters, you give credit.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we know anything about Taylor Swift is that she does not shy away from a fight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:56:28]

SCIUTTO: Happening right now, two NASA astronauts are on a seven-hour spacewalk, that`s a live picture there of them floating around, visit the International Space Station. They`re installing a solar array to increase the station`s electoral -- electrical power. This was supposed to happen yesterday, but an old piece of a Russian rocket came a little too close, making it too dangerous for a spacewalk. They maneuvered out of the way.

Astronauts Josh Cassada and Frank Rubio were able to get to work this morning. Once that debris was clear and as what they`re doing right now, trying to get it all fixed.

It is also the end of a very successful NASA mission to Mars. Insight Mars, officially came to an end after the lander stopped responding to messages from Mission Control. After four years, its power levels just ran too low. Its original mission that was only supposed to last two years, so got twice as long out of it.

On Monday, the program posted a message on Twitter writing from the lenders point of view, quote," My battery -- my power`s really low, so this may be the last image I can send. Don`t worry about me though, my time here has been productive and serene. If I can keep talking to my mission team, I will but I`ll be signing off here soon. Thanks for staying with me." Like saying goodbye to a friend.

All right, in Israel today, Benjamin Netanyahu is one step closer to returning to power as Prime Minister poised to do so by ushering in what will likely be the most right-wing government in Israeli history. CNN`s Hadas Gold is in Jerusalem. Hadas, Netanyahu says he has formed a government. Tell us exactly about the people he has in top roles.

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim, Netanyahu really taken this up until the last minute. He had the deadline of midnight last night to form the Israeli President. He had managed to form a coalition and it was really in the last 15 minutes or so that we got the official word that he had done so. And what`s really concerning for many of Israel`s even allies around the world as who some of these ministers are going to be.

Now, most of the top positions, foreign ministry, defense, justice are expected to go to members of Netanyahu`s own Likud party. But there are other ministers that are causing concern. And that`s because some of these people were once considered the far-right fringe of Israeli politics.

And now they will be in positions of power that could potentially help set policies in places like the West Bank and in some of Jerusalem`s holiest sites and as well as there`s some efforts to change Israel`s judiciary and the Supreme Court.

This is causing some of Israel`s even most staunchest allies, especially in the Jewish diaspora to express concern. I`ll give you one example, the one that most people now recognize as Itamar Ben- Gvir. He`s the leader of Jewish power. He himself was once convicted of anti-Arab racism and supporting a Jewish terrorist group. He will now become National Security Minister with power over the Israeli police.

There`s Bezalel Smotrich, he`s an Israeli settler, lawyer turned politician. He is expected to become Minister of Finance, but will have a hand in helping to determine the Israeli military body, who will be in charge of the military body that helps determine border crossings and permits for Palestinian. Smotrich is somebody who wants to abolish the Palestinian Authority.

Now, Benjamin Netanyahu said that ultimately, he is the one in charge, that he will be the one that will set policy. But there`s a lot of concerns out there that he is building a government that he will ultimately not be able to control. Jim?

SCIUTTO: And questions about how he will influence the ongoing corruption investigation of himself and use his power, perhaps to derail that.

Hadas Gold in Jerusalem, thanks so much.

Thanks to all of you for joining us today. We hope your holiday travel, if you`re already on your way or will soon be, goes well throughout all the bad weather. I`m Jim Sciutto. At This Hour with Kate Bolduan starts right now.