Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Jan. 6 CMTE Releases Slew Of Interview Transcripts; Federal Prosecutors Investigating George Santos' Finances; Global And Soccer Icon Pele Dead At 82; Defense Department: Chinese Fighter Jet Intercepted U.S. Recon Aircraft With "Unsafe Maneuver" In South China Sea Last Week. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 29, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:01:49]

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: It's the top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. Thank you for sticking with me. I'm Sara Sidner.

We're now getting a look at even more witness transcripts from the January 6 investigation, 19 to be exact. The January 6 Committee released key interviews from members of former President Donald Trump's family and staff and conversations with people involved in the state level effort to overturn the 2020 election.

In one interview, Donald Trump, Jr. gave more context around text that he sent to Mark Meadows about plans to keep his father in office days after the election that he lost. And Trump lawyer, Christina Bobb, detailed a conversation with Sen. Lindsey Graham in which he pledged to become a "champion" of Trump's election fraud claims.

Our Sara Murray now with more details, I know there's a lot to go through, I know there's a team of people going through them. But what else stands out to you?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: There is a team that is diligently going through these transcripts. But look, the Don Jr. transcript is fascinating because, of course, he's the son of the former president. And he does lay out a little bit more about his text messages with Mark Meadows as the riot was unfolding.

At one point Don Jr. texted Meadows saying he has to condemn this. And so the Committee said, "He's got to condemn it ASAP. When you said 'condemn this expletive,' condemn - condemn what?" And Don Jr. says, "The violence that's going on. Again, you know, I think I made it pretty clear in my speech, we can do this peacefully. You know, use your First Amendment rights; do it that way. But, you know, violence has no place in this situation."

The other thing that was really notable from this Don, Jr. Transcript, obviously he wanted his father to condemn the violence at the Capitol that day. There was a whole lot that Don Jr. could not remember that the Committee asked about when it came to his conversations directly with his father, a lot of I do not recall or I don't exactly remember it.

SIDNER: It's interesting, because you heard from Cassidy Hutchinson in her testimony that the lawyer that she had was telling her to do just that. Say, like, maybe just I don't remember, that sort of thing. I wonder what happened there for it's really - that he didn't remember. The testimony from Christina Bobb, about her conversations with Sen. Graham seem to stand out. What more did she say?

MURRAY: Yes. She really makes this South Carolina Republican to be someone who really wanted to help the Trump team parrot these claims of voter fraud. So in the interview the Committee did with Christina Bobb, she's recalling conversations she had with this Senator. And the Senator was saying to her, give me an example of what he calls illegals voting, just give me a very small snapshot that I can take and champion. Just give me five dead voters."

So Lindsey Graham essentially saying to Christina Bobb, give me anything, give me any examples of fraud that I can take and talk about publicly. Eventually, Lindsey Graham would go on. He would speak in the chamber and say, enough is enough. He would vote to certify the election after the riot had unfolded.

But earlier on in this process, it was very clear that he was on Team Trump and, of course, we know since then he remains a close ally to the former president, Sara.

[15:05:01]

SIDNER: Yes, I remember him saying Trump has not lost. I mean, it was a moment.

The January 6 Committee withdrawing its subpoena of former President Trump, what does that mean?

MURRAY: Yes. This is something that Donald Trump is claiming as a victory. In reality, it's a little bit more like housekeeping. We've seen the Committee drop a number of their subpoenas now that their work is winding down.

Last night, the Chairman of the Committee, Bennie Thompson notified one of Trump's attorneys that they were formally withdrawing the subpoena for testimony and documents for the former president essentially saying our work here is done. Our ability to get this information from you has expired.

The Trump team certainly takes that as a victory. They had sued to block this subpoena. And they did successfully keep the Committee from getting records, from getting testimony from the former president. But, of course, the Committee didn't end by saying Donald Trump did nothing wrong. They ended by referring the former president to the Department of Justice for a potential criminal prosecution.

SIDNER: Sara Murray, always great to have you on. Thank you for all of that.

MURRAY: Thanks for having me. SIDNER: Let's discuss with CNN Chief Political Analyst, Gloria Borger, and former Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Harry Litman.

Harry, I'll start with you. What stands out to you from all this?

HARRY LITMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I'm just rushing through it like everyone else. But the dialogue that Sara underscored with Lindsey Graham, I thought was really eyebrow raising, "Just find me five votes." That's not someone who wants to know the overall state of play, someone who wants to figure out the truth and then be a warrior. It's a little reminiscent of Trump saying to Georgia, I just need 17,980 votes. Just give me a little bit and I'll be out there working it for all it's worth, in other words, flying the big lie and fraud claim whether or not the bona fides (ph) are there, that's one.

And then second, we do have a Team Trump here and that means a real profusion (ph). You sort of gloss down the page and there's a lot of I don't recall, I don't recall, I don't recall. We'll see whether they are called into the grand jury by the Department of Justice and if that serves to sharpen their memories.

SIDNER: Yes, that'll be interesting. And as I mentioned to Sara Murray, we did hear one of the attorneys sort of pushing the idea of maybe that's what you can say to Cassidy Hutchinson and then she got a new attorney and that changed.

Gloria, we're hearing more about Don Jr.'s efforts to keep the president in office. Tell us about that.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, as Sara was just saying, this is someone who couldn't text his father. He had to text on November 5th, the chief of staff. And what was remarkable to me in reading the transcript of this is that he said, well, these weren't his ideas, but he considered these ideas what he called the most sophisticated and the ideas that "sounded plausible."

So this is the son of the president of the United States, texting ideas to keep his father illegally in office because they sounded plausible. And what he was talking about was what the Trump people ended up doing, of course, which is filing lawsuits and advocating for recounts, and on and on and on. But right after the election, the notion was stay in office at all costs.

SIDNER: Harry, I want to talk to you quickly - and Gloria - about Mark Meadows. It seems that, all roads seem to lead at least through him, which I suppose would be the normal thing, because he's the chief of staff, but what kind of culpability? I mean, what - does he have any kind of executive privilege?

LITMAN: Well, it's - so the Congress referred him for a contempt and I think the Department of Justice stayed its hand because they were worried he would have executive privilege, that's finished now. There's no more claim that he could try to apply. That just had to do with his testimony to Congress.

You are 100 percent right. All roads seem to lead to him and through him. He communicates with some 34 members of Congress around these days. He's neck deep in the phony elector scheme. And so yes, I think he is key and the number one investigative move, not to say the first because they probably want to build towards it. But the number one investigative decision for the Department of Justice is how to handle Meadows.

In particular, do you even consider giving someone of his culpability immunization to force him to testify.

BORGER: Right.

LITMAN: But he's been very, I'd say, fortunate today. He's also had very fine counsel in running through the raindrops and not having to talk. But is has ended now that his the motion with the Congress just to talk during their hearing is finished and it's now back at Department of Justice.

BORGER: Look, in many ways, Sara, Mark Meadows was the Trump enabler.

[15:10:03]

He was there at every turn in this story and we learned in these transcripts about even burning papers in his fireplace more times than we even knew. She - Cassidy Hutchinson testified maybe a dozen times right around the time of January 6.

So he's everywhere in this story and he's on every side of every story. He's telling some people one thing and trying to placate Donald Trump, trying to deal with Rudy Giuliani, and on and on and on. Going to Georgia and getting involved in that whole issue with the question of fake electors and where can they find the votes, et cetera, et cetera. So I think he's everywhere.

And as Harry says, I don't know what the Special Counsel is thinking. I don't know what prosecutors in Georgia are thinking, but Mark Meadows name comes up all the time.

SIDNER: Yes. Seems like he is the name in everyone's mouth.

BORGER: Yep.

SIDNER: Thank you both, Gloria Borger and Harry Litman. And stay with us, I think we'll be coming back to you in a bit with all these new details.

Embattled Congressman-elect George Santos is now facing scrutiny over his finances after facing a wave of criticism for lying about everything from his religious heritage, work history, his education. CNN has learned that federal prosecutors in New York are looking into claims that include loans totaling more than $700,000 that he made to his own campaign.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty joins me now with more. Give us a sense, remind us of where things stand because every day there's another lie that has been uncovered. SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Sara, and this controversy for him just keeps growing. There are new fabrications that were uncovered from CNN's KFILE team, fabrications that were previously unreported.

First, Santos claim that he attended an elite New York City private school called Horace Mann prep. He says he had to leave the school when his family's real estate assets fell on hard times. But those claims are false. According to the school, they have no evidence that he ever attended that school.

Santos also says that he represented Goldman Sachs at a financial conference where he says he spoke out against the company during that panel about investing in renewables. Now, not only there's no record of him appearing on a panel, but there was no record of him even attending the conference he claims he did. And, of course, there are no records of him working for Goldman Sachs either.

There's also a new additional false claims he's made about his family history. KFILE finding that Santos said his mother had historically Jewish name, but genealogists who work with CNN on this, they found no evidence of that name, no evidence of Jewish or Ukrainian heritage in his family tree either.

Now, all of this comes as Santos - as you referenced - is facing investigations on the federal and local level. And specifically federally prosecutors in New York are looking into Santos' finances. Big questions here over how and where he got his money, $700,000 he loaned to his campaign.

And locally, the probe from the Nassau County District's office, that has been launched they call the fabrications, in their words, nothing short of stunning. And just a short time ago, there was a press conference in his district where local Democrats and activists slammed the incoming congressman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ANNA KAPLAN (D-NY): To allow George Santos to be seated as a member of Congress would be a further knife in the heart of this community.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

KAPLAN: And I am urging congressional Republican leadership to stop that from happening while investigations are ongoing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: And it's still been complete silence from Republican leaders on Capitol Hill as Santos attempts to push ahead and is at this time, Sara, is scheduled to be sworn into Congress next week. SIDNER: Sunlen Serfaty with all of that. Thank you for putting it all back together for us again.

Harry and Gloria are back with me. I want to start with you, Gloria, because you heard the demand that the Republicans, basically, have him resign or remove him.

BORGER: Sure.

SIDNER: That's not going to happen, is it?

BORGER: No. No, no, no, no, it is not going to happen. First of all, you have an election for speaker coming up early next week. McCarthy - Kevin McCarthy, who wants to be the speaker needs his vote. If he were to say, okay, we're not going to seat him, then you'd have to have a special election, that's a swing district. Santos flipped a seat for them, turned it Republican, so they're just not going to do that right now.

What they might do is eventually refer this to the Ethics Committee. It's not even clear what the jurisdiction of the ethics committee would be, so this is a total mess. But the reason you're not hearing from McCarthy is because he doesn't want to say anything before this election.

[15:15:05]

And maybe not even after.

SIDNER: And this is a sort of politics over the many lies.

BORGER: Yes.

SIDNER: Harry, we now know that the local District Attorney in Nassau County who is a Republican herself has come out and said this has to be looked into. There is federal investigation now looking into Santos' finances. Is that the place where the lies meet the law?

LITMAN: That or nowhere. As Gloria says it's a total mess, but people can lie, even hall of famers like this guy, it will only be if - and you - and to find him you need to get the sort of pieces of paper, Sara. The campaign finance or the campaign - the financial disclosure form, those things if they are false. There may be criminal exposure and that might force them out but not before the speaker election.

SIDNER: I remember a campaign finance issue with Donald Trump and a woman named Stormy Daniels at the very beginning of this, I'm sure you all remember that, too.

LITMAN: Stormy Daniels, okay. And her lawyer.

SIDNER: We will see what happens. Yes, and all the mess there.

LITMAN: Happy New Year.

SIDNER: Happy New Year to you, Harry. BORGER: And the lawyer went to jail, Donald Trump's lawyer went to jail.

SIDNER: Yes.

LITMAN: Exactly.

SIDNER: That's right.

BORGER: But Donald Trump was fine.

SIDNER: And her lawyer did as well.

BORGER: Yes, it's true.

SIDNER: Harry Litman, Gloria Borger, thank you both so much for the great insight.

BORGER: Thanks.

LITMAN: Thank you.

SIDNER: This just in to CNN, the Pentagon says a Chinese jet made an unsafe maneuver while intercepting a U.S. aircraft, a live report just ahead.

And we're following sad news of - out of the sports world, Brazilian soccer legend, Pele, has died at the age of 82, a look back at his incredible life and legacy next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:21:06]

SIDNER: We're mourning the loss of a legend, an athlete with such worldwide adulation, only his first name was needed. International football sensation, Pele, died at the age of 82. The Brazilian soccer star is the only man to win three World Cups and some of the greatest plays ever.

His daughter just posted online, "Everything we are is thanks to you. We love you endlessly. Rest in peace." CNN Sports Anchor and Correspondent Patrick Snell is here with the latest. Patrick, Sao Paulo Hospital has just released Pele's cause of death. Tell us what's - what it is.

PATRICK SNELL, CNN SPORT ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: They have, absolutely, and it is - what is - what I'm taking from this, Sara, is this is extremely, extremely sad news. Condolences, of course, to the family, first and foremost, we've been keeping Pele and his family in our thoughts and prayers.

But the hospital earlier confirming that he passed away peacefully and I think that's the biggest takeaway for his fans that we've been hanging on updates, we've been waiting updates all over the Christmas period and we've been getting them from his families, most notably, one of his daughters, Kelly, as well.

But just for context, you said it, this is the only player ever in the history of the sport to win three World Cups. Just imagine winning your first ever World Cup at the age of 17 years of age, the 1958 tournament in Sweden, he would win it again with storied Brazilian national team four years later and then one more time in 1970 in Mexico. Three World Cups, he played in four in total. He won three of them.

But his life story is so incredible. It is so powerful. This is someone who transcended sports, a global icon who made an impact not just during his storied career, but off the field of play as well. After retirement he cared so much, he grew up in poverty. He played the game with socks molded into a football for goalposts. There were boots when they had boots his youth team actually didn't even have boots to play in initially, it is no wonder that we've been getting reaction coming, such a storied global icon.

I do want to get to something. A really emotional posts from Pele's official Twitter account within the last few minutes. If I can get to that, these words resonating very powerfully, indeed, "Inspiration and love mark the journey of King Pele, who peacefully passed away today. Love, love and love, forever."

And also he was so generous in his praise of others, Sara. I want to tap into something that he had a special bond he had with French World Cup winning superstar, Kylian Mbappe, from 2018. These two forming a special bond in the last few months of Pele's life. Mbappe a short while ago taking to social media, "The king of football has left us but his legacy will never be forgotten. RIP KING." Rest in peace, King.

Emotional day, absolutely, but a celebration of an incredible life as well. Such a powerful and impactful one as well, no question. Back to you.

SIDNER: Absolutely. And we certainly saw Mbappe skills during the World Cup there. But saying goodbye to Pele will be hard for so many. Patrick Snell, thank you. Appreciate it.

All right. This just in to CNN, the Defense Department says that a Chinese fighter jet intercepted a U.S. reconnaissance aircraft over the South China Sea last week. CNN's Oren Liebermann joins us now from the Pentagon. I hear this encounter was disturbingly close.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Sara, we'll look at video of that incident in just one second put out by U.S. Indo-Pacific Command, but first let's talk about what happened here. A U.S. reconnaissance aircraft, an RC-135 Rivet Joint was operating in the South China Sea over international waters, international territory, according to Indo-Pacific Command, when a Chinese fighter jet from the People's Liberation Army Navy, a J-11 approached on an intercept.

[15:25:06]

Now, these generally happen and they are conducted in a safe way. This one, INDOPACOM says was not, that Chinese jet can do within 20 feet of the nose of the RC-135 Rivet Joint, a large aircraft with a crew of as many as 30 people that can't maneuver quickly.

Still, it was close enough that that Rivet Joint had to take evasive maneuvers in INDOPACOM said. Here, take a look at this video and you can see how this played out. The video itself only a few seconds long, but you can see - that's the J-11 right there - at a small distance from the RC-135. It then begins drifting closer and towards the end of the video here. You'll see that distance opening up. That's when officials say that RC 135 Rivet Joint, the U.S. reconnaissance aircraft dove away to open up space and to avoid the continuation of an unsafe maneuver.

Now, this of course comes as their increased tensions between US and China, Sara. This will certainly add to those tensions between Washington and Beijing.

SIDNER: Has Washington - any of the officials there have said that this was a message or something from the Chinese government?

LIEBERMANN: We haven't seen too many statements about this just yet. Keep in mind it happened last Wednesday. Indo-Pacific Command only put out this statement today. But we've seen interactions that are in this vein before China claims most of the South China Sea as its territorial waters. The US does not recognize those claims and says it will operate wherever international law allows.

SIDNER: Oren Liebermann, thank you for all of that.

There is life, finally, at the end of the runway for Southwest Airlines or at least for their passengers, hopefully, after a week of mayhem, the airline may resume its full scheduled tomorrow, more on that just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)