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Suspect In Idaho Killings Arrested On First Degree Murder Warrant; Southwest Expecting "Full Schedule" Today After Days Of Chaos; Jan 6 CMTE Releases New Transcripts, Including From Giuliani, Kushner; House Committee Posts Trump's Tax Returns From 2015 Through 2020; Rep. Judy Chu (D-CA) Discusses About The Release Of Donald Trump's Tax Return Online. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 30, 2022 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN BREAKING NEWS.

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: It is the top of the hour on CNN NEWSROOM. Thank you for sticking with me. I'm Sara Sidner.

We begin the hour with breaking news and a long awaited arrest in the horrific killings of four University of Idaho students back in November. Bryan Christopher Kohberger is in custody on a first degree murder warrant in those stabbing deaths. That's according to an affidavit.

The killings terrorize a small town of Moscow, Idaho which hadn't seen a murder in seven years. Investigators are going to be holding a press conference. They are setting up as we speak and we are going to take you there live. But first, CNN's Jean Casarez is in Monroe County, Pennsylvania. That is where the arrest of Kohberger was made. And CNN's Veronica Miracle in Moscow, Idaho.

Jean, we're going to start with you. What are you learning about how this arrest actually came to be?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it happened at 1:30 this morning and it's very, very interesting to look at how it was effectuated here and what was happening at the very same time in Idaho. But we are right here at the Monroe County Correctional facility. This is where this 28-year-old suspect, Bryan Christopher Kohberger is being held.

According to the docket, it says that a motion to set bail was denied by a judge. So this is a no bail, obvious situation. But the arrest, as I said, was at 1:30 this morning by the Pennsylvania State Police. And if you're wondering, well, how did this Idaho suspect come to be in Pennsylvania.

It's fascinating because according to a source, they tell CNN that the FBI out of Philadelphia were surveilling him for four days right here in very rural Pennsylvania. At the very same time in Idaho, the Moscow Police, Idaho State police and the FBI were putting everything together that they had to find probable cause for a judge to sign off on an arrest warrant.

That happened. When that happened, Pennsylvania State were surveilling him the whole time. They moved in and they arrested him.

Now, as far as the criminal complaint he has been held, according to their complaint being declared a fugitive of justice. And that is allowing them because a judge in Pennsylvania doesn't have authority to hold someone on Idaho charges, but fugitive of justice charges not living in the jurisdiction and there is an extradition hearing at this point. It is set for Tuesday, Sara.

SIDNER: Wow. That's really interesting about the DNA. Thank you for that reporting, Jean.

Veronica, now to you. I know that you, Stephanie Becker and Paul Murphy have gotten some more information for us on the suspects. What can you tell us?

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, just to make matters more confusing, because this murder happened obviously in Idaho. The suspect, what we understand, a - is a Washington State University graduate student. That is according to a listing that is no longer on the school's website.

Washington University refusing and declining to make a comment today about that, but we understand he was a graduate student at the Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology. And we were just over in Pullman (ph), which is about 20 minutes from here.

The University of Idaho is on the Idaho side of the state line and Washington University just over the state line on the Washington side and we were at an apartment complex that is home to only graduate students and their families. And there's police activity around an apartment that we have been told is in connection to the murder suspect, Kohberger.

Police - Washington State University Police searching that apartment at the request of the Moscow Police because Moscow Police do not have jurisdiction on the Washington side.

[15:05:01]

So Washington State University Police assisting now in that investigation in searching his apartment. We also understand now in a post that has been removed from Reddit that Kohberger's arrest - right after Kohberger's arrest was made public that a - he was a student investigator associated with the SAL University. And he was seeking participation in a research project to understand how emotions and psychological traits influence decision making when committing a crime.

That same post said, in particular, the study seeks to understand the story behind your most recent criminal offense with an emphasis on your thoughts and feelings throughout your experience. So a lot of disturbing details, of course, coming through right now video of that apartment complex being searched on your screen.

And this comes ahead of a 1 pm Pacific press conference here with the Moscow Police Department. That announcement coming this morning after seven weeks of investigating and, of course, throughout this entire investigation, there have been few details released. It has upset at least one family who has been fairly outspoken throughout this.

The community also shaken, wanting answers, but the entire time the Moscow Police Department saying that they had strong leads and that they needed the community to trust them, and that they were not revealing information to protect the integrity of the investigation. And now ahead of this press conference where we anticipate the announcement of this arrest, certainly, all of this coming through and coming forward now to this conclusion. Sara?

SIDNER: Veronica Miracle, great reporting. It is chilling what you're saying, if indeed, this is the person who committed the crime. But, of course, he's innocent until proven guilty. But that there was a study that he may have been involved with looking at your feelings after a recent criminal offense, really chilling stuff there to you and to Jean Casarez. Thank you for all the new details this hour.

Casey Jordan is a Criminologist and Behavioral Analyst and Ed Davis is the former Boston Police Commissioner.

I want to start with you, Ed.

Sources are telling CNN the investigators traced ownership of a car seen at the house and DNA taken from the scene itself in order to apprehend this person, Mr. Kohberger. Can you tell me how these pieces of the puzzle can come together? And if there is DNA, does that indicate that they have his DNA - they were able to find it in some other criminal case, potentially?

ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, it's hard to say, Sara, on where they got the comparison from. There's several ways that they can do that. One would be - a prior case is his DNA is on file. The other way would be familial DNA testing, which has been widely reported on recently. And the third way and a way that we used to do was follow the suspect around until he just got it a cigarette butt or a bottle of water and then test to get his DNA profile from that. Any of those things could have happened.

But when you look at the digital evidence here, the camera footage, there's not a lot of cars moving around between three and four o'clock in the morning in a town as small as Moscow, so significant work was done analyzing those videos. They come up with the car.

The other thing is that in a violent attack like this with a knife, it is quite common, actually more the rule than the exception, that the suspect will injure himself or herself in committing the crime. So there's very, very likely to have blood from the victims and from the suspect in the same place.

SIDNER: Now, to you, I want to ask you just quickly about this new reporting that we've gotten, I'm not sure if you're able to hear it. But this young man, Kohberger, was arrested. And online it says that he sought participation in a research project to understand how emotions and psychological traits influence decision making when committing a crime. What does that tell you about the suspect in the case?

DAVIS: Well, certainly ...

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Sara, to me this ...

DAVIS: ... sorry. I'm sorry, my fault.

JORDAN: Oh, sorry, I wasn't sure who the question is for. Sara?

SIDNER: That's to you, Casey.

JORDAN: Okay. Quite simply, it's exactly what I would suspect in this sort of profile. I mean, this is the guy we would have come up with, 28-years-old, seeking a PhD in criminology and/or criminal justice. I do have a screenshot of that Reddit survey.

And it allegedly is through the auspices of his master's program that he's asking these questions. There's a whole bunch of methodological problems, but it's very specific. He wants to know in this survey, what they were thinking before they did the crime, what were they thinking do during the crime and how did they feel after they committed the crime.

[15:10:03]

And he said, and if you weren't apprehended for the most recent offense you've done, I'll take any offense you've done.

So he was trying to get inside the criminal mind. And even though Hannibal Lecter is a work of fiction, there is always a sort of perpetrator who fancies himself a subject matter expert and then wants to experiment to find out how it really feels. I mean, how can you be an expert on something you've never done? It sounds like if this is our guy, he really went to the dark side of the criminal mind, lost his ability to differentiate what he was studying from what he wanted to experience and actually committed these crimes almost as an experiment to see if he felt anything as almost the subject in his own survey. So as a criminologist, myself, this is incredibly fascinating.

SIDNER: Casey, it is chilling, if indeed, these two things match up, and if indeed he is the person responsible for these killings, although he is innocent until proven guilty.

DAVIS: Right.

SIDNER: Ed, sources are telling CNN that an FBI surveillance team had been tracking the suspect for four days while the warrant was being obtained. What are they looking for when all of this is happening?

DAVIS: Well, first of all, they want to keep eyes on the suspect. They want to know where that person is at all times, because someone who's done something like this could very well offend again. So that's the key component. The FBI has specially trained surveillance teams that would blend right into the community there and be able to stay very close to this person.

But while they're watching him, they're going to be looking for destruction of evidence, clothing that might be thrown out. As I said, DNA, the possibility of getting DNA samples. There's a whole myriad of things that keeping eyes on somebody as closely as possible can produce an investigation like this and the FBI are the best at doing that.

SIDNER: We just want to make clear again, Bryan Kohberger is a suspect. He has not been convicted of anything and anyone who is a suspect in a case such as this is going to get a lot of scrutiny, but he is innocent until proven guilty and the authorities, though, are making the families at least a bit relieved. They have a suspect now who is in custody and awaiting extradition. Casey Jordan and Ed Davis, thank you both so much for your insight. And stay with CNN, we'll bring the police press conference exactly when it happens.

We are going to turn now to other news. Now to Southwest Airlines trying to get back to normal today. Only a few dozen flights have been canceled so far, a big relief for a lot of people compared to what it's been over the last week, a very different story from the thousands scrapped earlier.

CNN's Nadia Romero is at Atlanta Airport. Nadia, it seems to me looking at the line or the lack thereof behind you that things are pretty much back to normal.

NADIA ROMERO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they're getting there. Right, Sara. We know that people are able to get on those flights. Everyone looks up though at the big board as soon as they walk in to see if there have been cancellations or delays, which really has been the story for Southwest Airlines over the better part of a week now of seeing all of those flights being canceled, and not a lot of options for people who have just been left stranded.

Just this morning, the CEO of Southwest Airlines apologizing, again, saying that there just aren't enough words to express how sorry he is on the behalf of his company for the travel disruptions that have occurred. So I started asking people what do you think about his apology and what's it been like for you over the past week.

And many of them say, sorry, is just not enough. One woman told me that because she has been stranded in Atlanta for over a week and it's the end of the year, she's out of paid time off. So that meant that she will not receive a one full week of her paycheck. Her bills are going to show up on time, but that paycheck will not.

There are other people who tell me that they were supposed to spend time with family, but they ended up spending it alone here in the airport, sleeping on the floor, trying to figure out their next steps. And so I want you to hear from one woman who was from Brooklyn and then she says that she was a loyal Southwest customer but not anymore. This is her response to the CEO's apology this morning, take a listen.

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AMANDA BROOKS, TRAVELER: Apologies are not sufficient. We learn as children you can apologize, but we would raise on atonement. Apologies mean nothing. The rudeness was just - and like we can't do anything for you, there's no food vouchers, there's no transportation, there's no - that's not an answer.

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ROMERO: And that is what we keep hearing from people. And it really depends on who you talk to. When you hear from the CEO of Southwest, when you hear from the Secretary of State of the U.S. they both talk about making sure that people are reimbursed, making sure that people are made whole.

But Sara, one woman was up at the counter and I was listening in and she asked for a hotel voucher and they told her all the hotels are booked up. So there's still not a lot of answers for people who are trying to get home trying to find food, trying to just figure it out this far away from Christmas and now you're running up against all of the travel for New Year's Eve, Sara?

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I know that there is a push that Southwest has been warned by the federal government. Basically, you need to make sure that you make all of these people whole. Nadia Romero, thank you so much for joining us this hour.

Ginni Thomas expressing regret over some of her actions following the 2020 election. What else she told the January 6 Committee, that's coming up next.

Also, after years of legal wrangling, Donald Trump's taxes are now public. What's in them and what could it mean for the former president? I'll ask a member of the Committee that release them coming up next.

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SIDNER: The January 6 Committee released another batch of transcripts this morning. The new interviews contain conversations with Trump aides and allies including the Committee's conversation with Ginni Thomas, wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

In the interview, Thomas said she regretted her text to Mark Meadows encouraging him to challenge the results of the 2020 election.

CNN's Paula Reid is joining me now. Paula, what else have we learned from these transcripts?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Sara, of the nearly a thousand interviews that this committee has conducted, the Ginni Thomas transcript is one we've really been waiting for to see if we could get some more answers on these text messages that she exchanged with former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows in the days and weeks following the election.

Now, CNN has previously reported that Thomas who is a conservative activist exchange over two dozen text messages with Meadows where she was urging him to try to overturn the election to text him things like: "The majority knows Biden and the left is attempting the greatest heist in our history."

And what's interesting is that in this transcript, you see investigators press her about these conversations. And she does actually express something we haven't seen a lot in this investigation, Sara, which is regret and remorse. She says that this was "an emotional time," she regrets these text messages and describes them as emotional text to a friend. But, of course, a friend in a very high place.

And there were a lot of questions at the time, we first reported on these text messages several months ago, questions about the wife of the Supreme Court Justice, texting the White House chief of staff trying to undermine democracy and questions about what would happen if her husband had to rule on any issues related to the January 6 investigation.

Now, there's one text that she sent Meadows where she says that she's been discussing all of this with her "best friend." And at the time, there was speculation that she was referring to her husband, the Justice. And in this transcript, Sara, she confirmed that indeed, that is who she was likely referring to.

But her regret and her remorse stops with her text messages to Mark Meadows. And when investigators and lawmakers on the Committee pressed her about her false claims of election fraud, she doubled down even when presented with evidence, the losing record of the Trump legal team in court, the fact that former Attorney General Bill Barr, White House counsel, they all told the former president there was no election fraud.

She was asked if she had known that if she would still pursue these claims and she said yes. She said that she still believes there is more to be uncovered. So notable there, Sara, even though she's remorseful over her text messages to Mark Meadows that really the crux of what she was arguing: the election fraud, false results, she still hold out hope that there will be evidence eventually, though she confirmed she has no specific evidence at this time.

SIDNER: Right. Which no one has. Paula Reid, thank you so much. All of that really concerning.

In one of their final acts as the party in power, House Democrats just blew open one of Donald Trump's biggest secrets; his tax returns. Today, the Ways and Means Committee put thousands of pages of the former president's tax documents on the Congressional Record, the culmination of a three year legal battle that went all the way to the Supreme Court. CNN Congressional Correspondent Lauren Fox joins me with further details on this. Lauren, lots more pages of information now, what are you learning from the release?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, this is a treasure trove of information, Sara. And it's a reminder why presidential candidates typically released their tax returns, because there's information that the American public might want to know.

And some of those nuggets that were included in his tax returns include things like the fact that the former president had foreign bank accounts. And I want to go through where those bank accounts were located and it really depends on the year.

In 2015, he had foreign bank accounts in the United Kingdom, Ireland and China. In 2016, the United Kingdom, Ireland, China and St. Martin. In 2017, the United Kingdom, Ireland and China. And in 2018, 2019 and 2020, just the United Kingdom.

And Sara, that's interesting, right, because there is one country that really stands out there, and that is China, given the United States' relationship with that country and it not being a close ally of the U.S. There's some question there as to why and when that account was opened by the former president.

There's also some new insights into the former president's charitable donations. He often talked on the campaign trail. And when he was in office, that he was a generous businessman, that he gave a lot of money to charity. Here's what we now know, given these tax documents: In 2016, he gave $1.2 million to charity; in 2017, $1.9 million to charity; and in 2018, and 2019 each of those years, just a little over $500,000. And then in 2020, the year of Coronavirus, just zero dollars.

And, of course, that was a year that was really hard-hit for Trump businesses given the fact that he works in the hospitality industry, owns hotels, golf courses, all of those entities deeply affected by Coronavirus and the fact that people weren't able to travel across the world and across the country.

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So some interesting insights there, Sara, into the former President's tax returns. Of course, we're still going through these documents, given the fact that like you said, there are thousands of pages.

SIDNER: Just a short time ago, House Republicans sent out their official opposition to the release of Trump's returns. What was said in that?

FOX: Well, this is coming at such an interesting political moment up here on the Hill, because it is just a mere couple of days until House Republicans take control of the very committee that decided to release these returns. They had a vote in their committee last week along party lines to release these documents. And one of the things you were hearing from Republicans is this was rushed, that this is unfair, that this is unprecedented.

But I want to read you one thing that one of the Republicans on the Committee, Jason Smith, said in a closed door session Republicans revealing this today in their documents. They said - he said to Democrats, "I had countless people tell me of things that they were concerned with President Biden's family's dealings and how they believed that him and his family is enriched because of his political power. They are begging for oversight and accountability on that."

And that's really a shot across the bow, Sara. Sort of warning if you do this, if you release Donald Trump's tax returns, wait and see what happens when the shoe is on the other foot when Republicans have power of this committee. So I think that is such an interesting place to watch how do Democrats and Republicans use this law going forward and specifically how do Republicans use it in just a matter of days. Sara?

SIDNER: Lauren Fox, thank you for all of that.

Let me now turn to Democratic Congresswoman Judy Chu. She's a member of the House Ways and Means Committee, the congressional panel that posted Trump's returns online.

Congresswoman, welcome to the show. You voted to release these documents on Donald Trump. Why do you think it was important that the public be able to scrutinize this?

REP. JUDY CHU (D-CA): The American public has a right to know what their president's finances are. The presidency is unique. No one else in the country has the immense power to sign bills into law and direct an entire branch of government. If this person is signing up to be the leader of the world, then the American public deserves to see those taxes.

And actually, what we were looking at was whether the mandatory presidential audit was being done, that was the basis upon which we have that hearing last week. And to our shock, we found that it wasn't being done, that only one mandatory audit was started and none of the audits were completed. So we wanted to let the American public know about that, but to really understand how that occurred, and why that was wrong. We needed to release those tax returns.

SIDNER: I wanted to ask you about that, Congresswoman. Is the IRS in trouble here? I mean - or is there some sense that the White House put pressure on the IRS? I mean, why wasn't it done? Will you all be able to get to the bottom of that?

CHU: We want to get down to the bottom of that. There are two reasons: One is that the IRS has been starved of resources. Republicans have wanted to reduce the money that goes to the IRS for its functions. And as a result over this last decade, 30 percent of those tax auditors, those who audit the wealthy have declined and the audits of the ultra wealthy have declined by 70 percent.

So they've had less and less resources. This is why Democrats put in the inflation reduction Bill $80 billion for the IRS to restore its functions and to make sure that the ultra wealthy in this country pay their fair share. And by the way, those audits would only be for anybody earning $400,000 or more.

But I do think there's another problem as to why this happened. And I think it's because there was a lack of will to really take these audit seriously. You know that they only assigned one agent to this presidential audit for such a complicated audit that had thousands upon thousands of pages and 400 related return returns. There should have been at least five auditors and those that amongst them had special expertise in foreign taxes as well as in financial products. So there was something drastically wrong there.

SIDNER: I do want to quickly ask you about the fact that these being released show that President Trump at the time that had - while he was president - had foreign accounts and that he paid more in foreign taxes. One of those accounts in China.

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He paid more in foreign taxes than he did pay U.S. taxes. Is that just a problem with the tax code or a way that he was able to use loopholes?